So... What do we go for on Sunday for Wigan game?

[lake district canary 0]

I think the team selection for Stoke was interesting in that PL wanted to try Howson and Johnson in midfield.    Perhaps in his thinking is their knowledge of each others game from ttheir time at Leeds  (I found that last word really difficult to write).      It should have worked really, but Johnson is one of those players who doesn''t look to be doing much.    Howson is going to appear alot, so it would be interesting to see him and Fox together from the start of a match.   If these two establish a good working relationship, you can add whatever permutation of the others that you want. Pilks, Benno, Surman, Hoolahan - quite a choice!   Plenty of attacking options.

 

 

Looking good!

 

For Wigan, possibly  Benno, Howson, Fox, Surman with Pilks/Hooly to come on if needed.    Holt/Vaughan up front.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davo 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

 

Sorry but you are being harsh on Jackson about the Man U game. The change was tactical and not due to his performance. Man U had Wellbeck dropping deep and Fox and to cover him giving them an extra man in midfield and allowing Scholes and Carrick too much time and space. By taking of Jackson and bringing on Hoolahan it allowed us to match up to them better.

As for the Leicester game so many players played badly and yet you aren''t saying they should be dropped infact you are saying Morison who played just as badly if not worse should get a game. Against Stoke the change was again tactical as we went 4-5-1 when he came on though he was bright and didn''t play badly.

 

Davo

[Phillip J Fry 0]

Playing a 2 man central midfield against Wigan''s usual 4-3-3 formation would not be a good idea, if you give a a team like Wigan (i.e. a passing team) an extra man in midfield you''re going to struggle for most of the game especially in getting any possession on the ball. As such, I would go:RuddyNaughton----Ward----Whitbread----Drury------------Howson----Fox----Surman-------------------Bennett----Holt----Pilkington-----However Lambert will probably go 4-1-2-1-2 or a 4-4-2. If he does Holt will definitely start and Morison should as well.

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Regarding Jackson and the Man Utd game - and bear in mind I was only listening to the Radio Snorefolk commentary - but they seemed to believe that he was swapped for Wes to add a body to midfield and keep Scholes under tighter control.  Jackson had been playing behind Holt in the first half, which was when we started to get a tighter grip on the game, but Lambert felt a proper midfielder would be a better option.  So it wasn''t really a reflection of his play or ability, but a tactical switch.

 

Unless the wireless got it completely wrong...

[GJP 79]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Well in general Simeon''s work rate and link up play has been excellent so I don''t really see how you can be surprised by people wanting him in the team.

 

But then again last season you did tell us that we couldn''t/shouldn''t play David Fox at the base of the diamond.

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

RuddyRuss MartinBennettWhitbreadNaughtonFoxHowsonjohnsonSurmanPilkington(tin hat on) Wilbraham.4-2-3-1 formationsubsSteer, Holt, Jackson, Ward, Hooligan, Drury, Crofts

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

As much as we might pretend otherwise, Jackson and Wilbraham will NOT score goals for us in the Premiership.

Can we please for this match, stop overcomplicating the issue, stop messing around and play our 20-goal partnership of Holt-Morison, get the 3 points and put the survival issue to bed once and for all ?!?

[/quote]

I couldn''t agree more with the points made in this post.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Ruddy

Russ Martin

Bennett

Whitbread

Naughton

Fox

Howson

johnson

Surman
Pilkington

(tin hat on) Wilbraham.

4-2-3-1 formation

subs

Steer, Holt, Jackson, Ward, Hooligan, Drury, Crofts
[/quote]

The day I''m forced to watch a Norwich team in the premiership containing Wilbraham up front on his own will be the day I will question everything about myself and what I thought I knew about the world I live in?!?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Well in general Simeon''s work rate and link up play has been excellent so I don''t really see how you can be surprised by people wanting him in the team.

 

But then again last season you did tell us that we couldn''t/shouldn''t play David Fox at the base of the diamond.

 

 

[/quote]

If Jackson really was playing aswell as you say and more crucially ,actually scoring goals, it would render him undroppable and unsubstitutable anyway?. Workrate and buildup play are all very well but I''ll take goals from my striker everytime. Current standings -Morison =10, Jackson =2

This unusual "putting words in mouths" campaign re: David Fox is getting rather creepy now?!

[mrs miggins 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Well in general Simeon''s work rate and link up play has been excellent so I don''t really see how you can be surprised by people wanting him in the team.

 

But then again last season you did tell us that we couldn''t/shouldn''t play David Fox at the base of the diamond.

 

 

[/quote]

If Jackson really was playing aswell as you say and more crucially ,actually scoring goals, it would render him undroppable and unsubstitutable anyway?. Workrate and buildup play are all very well but I''ll take goals from my striker everytime. Current standings -Morison =10, Jackson =2

This unusual "putting words in mouths" campaign re: David Fox is getting rather creepy now?!

[/quote]

 

everyone was saying how rubbish jackson was this time last season, as much like this season he''s been given a few games and hasn''t scored. ironic as he won us promotion.

 

personally i would go with:

 

-----------------------------ruddy------------------------

martin------------whitbread-------bennett----------drury

--bennett-------crofts/howson-------fox------pilkington--

----------------jackson---------------holt----------------

[Yellow Wal 314]

Unfortunately some people think that a player who run around quickly and works hard is automatically a good player. I would suggest they are the same people who voted for Lee Croft as POTS a few years back because he ran around a lot and worked hard.

Simeon seems to have a good attitude but he would never have had a start this season had Vaughan been fit. He is a lesser version of Vaughan and, quite frankly, is in the Lee Croft class.

[Yellow Wal 314]

I''ve just read what I have written and must say that I withdraw that Simeon Jackson is in the Croft class ................... he''s far better than that. But he is still not a good Premiership footballer.

[priceyrice 123]

[quote user="Jacko"]

But given the form of the other forwards I would still prefer to go with 1 up top on Sunday.

[/quote]Don''t really get this comment Jacko, i think our only striker out of form is Morro. Jackson and Wilbers have looked good when playing. Jackson has looked dangerous, without scoring, but working hard and holding the ball up well for a smaller forward. Wilbers has been bright when he has come on as well, we know he isn''t going to score many, but good to bring other players into the game and useful when need to resort to more long balls.I think the midfield just need to gain a little more control on our games, then more oppertunities will come to our strikers.I have been thinking about the Morrison situation, i think he should get another start soon and a chance to redeem himself, but he is a very usefull striker on his day. I am a bit surprised Lambert hasn''t given him any reserve time, to prove his committment and earn himself a place in the team again

[mrs miggins 0]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]I''ve just read what I have written and must say that I withdraw that Simeon Jackson is in the Croft class ................... he''s far better than that. But he is still not a good Premiership footballer.[/quote]

 

perhaps judge him after a full season idiot

[Yellow Wal 314]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]I''ve just read what I have written and must say that I withdraw that Simeon Jackson is in the Croft class ................... he''s far better than that. But he is still not a good Premiership footballer.[/quote]

 

perhaps judge him after a full season idiot

[/quote]

Unfortunately I do not think I will be able to judge him after a full season because I do not believe he will ever have a full Premiership season.

If he ever has a full season that will be proof enough that I am wrong.

Even if you disagree with me is there any need to call me an idiot?

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

Of all the players stepping up to the Premiership mark Jacko has has been the most surprising to  me. I had written him off.

 

His efforts and skill levels have been a revelation.

 

He needs a few goals to fully convince IMHO. Idiotic or not.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Well in general Simeon''s work rate and link up play has been excellent so I don''t really see how you can be surprised by people wanting him in the team.

 

But then again last season you did tell us that we couldn''t/shouldn''t play David Fox at the base of the diamond.

 

 

[/quote]

If Jackson really was playing aswell as you say and more crucially ,actually scoring goals, it would render him undroppable and unsubstitutable anyway?. Workrate and buildup play are all very well but I''ll take goals from my striker everytime. Current standings -Morison =10, Jackson =2

This unusual "putting words in mouths" campaign re: David Fox is getting rather creepy now?!

[/quote]Morison = 8 goals in 19 starts and 5 sub appearances in the league and 1 goal in 1 start and 1 sub appearance in the cuphttp://www.canaries.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10355~22116,00.htmlJackson = 2 goals in 6 starts and 10 sub appearances in the league and 2 goals in 2 starts and 1 sub appearance in the cuphttp://www.canaries.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10355~30937,00.htmlGive the actual true statistics and you get a more realistic picture on these players goal scoring rates this season.The real question is, why Wilbraham from the bench instead of Morison/Jackson surely?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Well in general Simeon''s work rate and link up play has been excellent so I don''t really see how you can be surprised by people wanting him in the team.

 

But then again last season you did tell us that we couldn''t/shouldn''t play David Fox at the base of the diamond.

 

 

[/quote]

If Jackson really was playing aswell as you say and more crucially ,actually scoring goals, it would render him undroppable and unsubstitutable anyway?. Workrate and buildup play are all very well but I''ll take goals from my striker everytime. Current standings -Morison =10, Jackson =2

This unusual "putting words in mouths" campaign re: David Fox is getting rather creepy now?!

[/quote]

Morison = 8 goals in 19 starts and 5 sub appearances in the league and 1 goal in 1 start and 1 sub appearance in the cup
http://www.canaries.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10355~22116,00.html

Jackson = 2 goals in 6 starts and 10 sub appearances in the league and 2 goals in 2 starts and 1 sub appearance in the cup
http://www.canaries.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10355~30937,00.html

Give the actual true statistics and you get a more realistic picture on these players goal scoring rates this season.

The real question is, why Wilbraham from the bench instead of Morison/Jackson surely?
[/quote]

We can debate all we like about what Jackson may or may not do given a "run" in the team but the only true certainty is that Morison HAS scored premiership goals.....thats all I''m interested in and thats what he should be judged by.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="The Gruffalo"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]still amazed by so many people''s inclusion of Jackson, who in the last 3 games was poor against Leicester, dragged off at half time vs Man Utd and dropped at Stoke.....seems like people are prepared to cut him a lot more slack than "10 goal striker" Morison, who seems to have been excluded for less??[/quote]

Well in general Simeon''s work rate and link up play has been excellent so I don''t really see how you can be surprised by people wanting him in the team.

 

But then again last season you did tell us that we couldn''t/shouldn''t play David Fox at the base of the diamond.

 

 

[/quote]

If Jackson really was playing aswell as you say and more crucially ,actually scoring goals, it would render him undroppable and unsubstitutable anyway?. Workrate and buildup play are all very well but I''ll take goals from my striker everytime. Current standings -Morison =10, Jackson =2

This unusual "putting words in mouths" campaign re: David Fox is getting rather creepy now?!

[/quote]

Morison = 8 goals in 19 starts and 5 sub appearances in the league and 1 goal in 1 start and 1 sub appearance in the cup
http://www.canaries.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10355~22116,00.html

Jackson = 2 goals in 6 starts and 10 sub appearances in the league and 2 goals in 2 starts and 1 sub appearance in the cup
http://www.canaries.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10355~30937,00.html

Give the actual true statistics and you get a more realistic picture on these players goal scoring rates this season.

The real question is, why Wilbraham from the bench instead of Morison/Jackson surely?
[/quote]

We can debate all we like about what Jackson may or may not do given a "run" in the team but the only true certainty is that Morison HAS scored premiership goals.....thats all I''m interested in and thats what he should be judged by.

[/quote]

 

 

 

Judging players and when they should be in thte team does not depend on past performances. Form is  the best guide as to when a player should be included.    Form and whatever tactics the manager wants to use.   Any of our strikers are up to the job.    

 

 

The answer is in the manager''s approach - he trusts all the players, thats why on the whole they have done well.   If a player is doing it on the pitch - goals will come, whoever is picked.     If he picks Wilbraham, great - it means PL trusts him to do a job. So should we.

 

 

 

[lake district canary 0]

When I say past performances I mean weeks and weeks ago, I don''t mean the last match.   Form has to be judged on the previous match.

 

 

 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

I agree form is the best guide but can someone actually tell me what Jackson has done/is doing so much better than Morison?. It wasnt that long ago that Morison scored in 3 consecutive matches. Yes he was poor against Leicester ,but he wasnt the only one, and in my opinion the whole teams performace that day was in no small part down to the messgase being transmitted by Lambert that the games wasn''t important. If Jackson had come into the side since and banged in a couple of goals ,then fair enough.......he hasn''t and indeed hasn''t looked like doing so.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

When I say past performances I mean weeks and weeks ago, I don''t mean the last match.   Form has to be judged on the previous match.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

so your judging a run of  "form" on one match?!?!....thats rather harsh?..and not strictly I would argue quite what the concept of "form" actually is?

By those terms players would be in and out of the team in every match ,should they have one off day.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="lake district canary"]

When I say past performances I mean weeks and weeks ago, I don''t mean the last match.   Form has to be judged on the previous match.

[/quote]

so your judging a run of  "form" on one match?!?!....thats rather harsh?..and not strictly I would argue quite what the concept of "form" actually is?

By those terms players would be in and out of the team in every match ,should they have one off day.

[/quote] 

 

 

 

Its surely simple. Its about performance.  If a player plays well in one match, he is likely to be picked for the next one.  If he plays badly he runs the risk of not being picked for the next one.    Saying Morison has scored 10 goals so should be in the team, is wrong if he is off form.  If Jackson looks sharp,  he may well be more likely to score than an out of form player.    Players move in and out of  form for various reasons.  There''s nothing wrong with that, any more than my saying players should be judged on their last performance.   In fact it could be said that judgement of form can occur the day of the match - ie judging a player''s fitness, mood etc.   

 

 

 

 

[The Gruffalo 0]

Maybe so GJL. But now posters on this thread can have a fair debate that is based on facts rather than the incorrect stats that you posted above.Based on the facts I would say that Holt, Morison and Jackson have all shown that they are capable of scoring Premier League goals. Vaughan and Wilbraham have yet to prove themselves in the yellow and green at this level. While I believe that Vaughan has the ability to (as shown previously for Everton) to score goals at this level if he can be restored to full fitness, I think that Wilbraham does not have goals in him at this level and that he didn''t have goals in him at Championship level either.Another note that some appear to be missing, is Vaughan not still considered to be unfit/struggling with an injury at the moment?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

i guess we can expect Ruddy to be dropped against Wigan then for letting that goal in at Stoke?

[7rew 0]

The team that played against Bolton would be my choice.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

I agree form is the best guide but can someone actually tell me what Jackson has done/is doing so much better than Morison?.

[/quote]

I would say it''s his link up play and movement. He offers something very different to Morison. He gets around the pitch better and gets more involved in the play. He also offers that pace to stretch a defence, force them to defend deeper and therefore create space infront of them.

 

There''s probably a perception that Jackson works harder than Morison but it''s difficult thing to gauge.

 

Although Morison does bring his own qualities to the team he probably doesn''t offer the same mobility and link up play that Jackson does. However, his superior height and strength probably makes him a bigger threat around the penalty box.

 

I do think Morison is a bit unlucky because his goal return is pretty good for us but for whatever reason his form appears to have dipped over recent weeks. Some fans also take his body language to mean that he isn''t that bothered about what''s happening on the pitch which isn''t going to help him keep the crowd on his side, even though it may be an unfair judgement.

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

This debate is all very interesting, but it''s in danger of becoming very polarised. There are those who cite work rate as all important. Then there are the advocates of past goalscoring records. Others like current form. Build/speed is the key factor for some.

 

But isn''t the truth that it''s not an "either/or " matter ?  Surely the main thing for a club like Norwich at this level is "horses for courses". Lambert will take everything into account, not least the opposition on the day, and select a team that he feels, on balance, will win the game . Against Wigan, he may feel that Jackson will be the better bet, though v Newcastle, Morison may be selected. There aren''t many teams or players at Prem level where the manager sticks on a team/formation and plays it come hell or high water. Even Rooney does not play every game for Man U, Kuyt for Liverpool or Dzeko for Citeh.

[Bovril 219]

4-4-2 vs. Wigan at home...

Ruddy

Naughton Ward Whitbread Drury

Pilkington Howson Fox Surman

Holt Morison

Subs: Steer, Howson, Johnson, R Bennett, Martin, Jackson, E Bennett

[Bovril 219]

4-4-2 vs. Wigan at home...

Ruddy

Naughton Ward Whitbread Drury

Pilkington Howson Fox Surman

Holt Morison

Subs: Steer, R Bennett, Martin, Johnson, E Bennett, Hoolahan, Jackson