FA Cup vs Premier League

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

Whilst I agree with, and understand, the romance of the FA Cup, the well being of NCFC must come 1st.

 

I don''t have the exact figures, but I believe that by winning the FA Cup, the total amount of revenue is about £3m.

 

Now, each place in the league is worth £750k. There is no reason to believe that we won''t end the season in our current position or pretty close to it. Based upon prudent financial management, even given our current position, we would have budgeted for 17th place. The difference between 17th & 8th is around £7m.

 

There are 2 reasons why this is significant, firstly, £7m is obviously greater than the FA Cup prize money. Secondly, and far more importantly, by finishing in the top half of the premiership, it will be a far easier to attract the type of players that PL feels that we need to develop the squad. One can see that he is already starting to build for the future, and by having a top ten finish, will mean far more to prospective UK and overseas players - than having had a good cup run.

 

I suspect that todays approach and performance will play a pivotal role in our season. I believe that his approach was to "blood" in some squad members and "test" others. The performance has shown him and his management team (including Holt who I think could be being groomed for management) who REALLY wants to go for it, who doesn''t, and who''s not quite up to the task. If you look at those who he left out - Ruddy, Holt, Surman, Naughton - their places are probably nailed on, add in Howson & Ryan Bennett to a back line that includes Tierney, Whitbread & Ayala, and you probably have the spine of the team that PL will trust to push us on further. From those who played today, Martin, Drury, Ward, Fox, Bennett, Pilkington, Jackson, Vaughan & Hoolahan will probably be included in his "First Team Squad" (FTS).

 

Based on this premise, had we won today, that could have affected the dynamics of the FTS. I''m pretty sure that he won''t tolerate any dressing room disruptions (Holt will see to that) and will possibly already be talking to some squad members (complete with friendly arm around shoulder) about where their future lies. The onus is then up to those that weren''t up to it to prove their worth. I think there are 3 senior players that need a "wake up" call, and I think there are 3 senior players who fall into the "brilliant servants to the club, but now it''s probably a step too far" category.

 

Now, given that this FTS of 18 (plus GK''s) could not produce the consistency required to advance in both the Cup & the League, hands up all those who wanted to potentially forego a top 10 League position for a Cup run?

[shefcanary 2,407]

Having calmed down a bit I have to concur.  Lambert used this match as an experiment.  That can be the only plausible explanation.

[I am a Banana 0]

Why should lambert be experimenting in the cup? Fans have paid £25 on top of their season ticket to watch todays game. they expect to see a full strength team who should be beating leicester and at worst competing with them!

Will holt, ruddy really want to not play? They will want to play every game possible!

And also by changing things and experimenting we have lost and morale will be down!

 

Well done lambert? [y]/[n]

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

Why should lambert be experimenting in the cup? Fans have paid £25 on top of their season ticket to watch todays game. they expect to see a full strength team who should be beating leicester and at worst competing with them!

Will holt, ruddy really want to not play? They will want to play every game possible!

And also by changing things and experimenting we have lost and morale will be down!

 

Well done lambert? [y]/[n]

[/quote]

 

Whilst I understand your point of view, I don''t actually agree with it.

 

I didn''t say PL was experimenting. I said that he was "blooding in" and "testing". Bear in mind that PL has chosen his squad of 25 with due care and consideration and will expect every one of them to perform if called upon - therefore that does not constitute an "experimental" team. With regards to the financial outlay, had the team that PL put out today actually won, would you still be complaining about the cost?

 

As far as morale goes, I don''t believe losing one game is enough to drop the morale of the team, one only has to look at the Sunderland loss and the subsequent performances. As we all know, man management and motivation are two of PL''s most highly regarded skills.

 

With regards to your sarcastic congratulations of PL, if you read the post in its entirety and appreciated the rationale behind it, might you then be prompted to withdraw your negativity towards him?

 

Sometimes things are done for a reason, and we are not all necessarily privy to his thoughts. However, by taking the emotion out, and looking at the situation objectively, then a bigger picture starts to emerge. I''m not claiming that it is THE picture that PL is painting, hence my interspersions of "I suspect", "I believe", etc. etc.

[Ruddygore 0]

At this stage of the competition likewise at this stage of the league - us sitting 8th on 35 points and with nine days to go until the fixture with Man Utd, as has been said before why couldn''t we go all out with both?

I can understand the injury angle, that we have a smallish squad, that we have injuries already but for some reason some team members seemed poorer than we''d expect. Perhaps we didn''t need Holt on, perhaps he''d have liked to play. Whatever the reasons it was a let down primarily to those who paid to see a competition, who deserved to come away feeling they''d seen full commitment from all of the team.

It''s ok if people have another opinion, one where they are more "philosophical" but as I''ve seen elsewhere it''s not ok to make out that they''ve seen people thinking that we just had to win this one to have our colours tied to the cup. That''s not so and it hasn''t been said. No need for the hype.

Allow fans to feel what they want but attempting to score points is a futile game except when its our players on the pitch.

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

My hand is up O/p, sorry.

 

We have achieved what we wanted in the League with knobs on and neither cannot I ever get to grips with this opinion that a decent run in the Cup would be at the expense of a league position. Please explain why?  Your analysis is thorough and makes sense but over-analysis isn''t really necessary to explain a dire performance against average opposition in front of a vast fee paying crowd with high expectations. That''s the bottom line, not experimenting or whatever you wish to call it. The latter is for the training ground, not for the misery of 25, 000+ avant supporters.

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

My hand is up O/p, sorry.

 

We have achieved what we wanted in the League with knobs on and neither cannot I ever get to grips with this opinion that a decent run in the Cup would be at the expense of a league position. Please explain why?  Your analysis is thorough and makes sense but over-analysis isn''t really necessary to explain a dire performance against average opposition in front of a vast fee paying crowd with high expectations. That''s the bottom line, not experimenting or whatever you wish to call it. The latter is for the training ground, not for the misery of 25, 000+ avant supporters.

[/quote]

 

BR - you are absolutely correct - it was the performance that was dire, not PL''s team selection. I fully agree that those on the field of play let themselves down, and, even more importantly, let the fans down. Had that team "turned up" today and won the game, then I suspect PL would have been lauded for his team selection. Therefore, it''s not experimenting, but selecting the squad he believes would get the job done (which may, for all we know, have been tested on the training ground).

 

I can understand the difficulty that people have reconciling a Cup run without compromising our league position - but I think that today''s performance showed a compelling reason for concentrating on the League. Holt was neither in the team nor the squad and the performance was dire. Compare that to last week at Swansea where everyone put in an amazing shift. Given that injuries, bookings and sendings off do happen - where would we be if Holt played and was injured or sent off today? Today''s performance gave us the answer - and it really worries me. Out of all the members of PL''s squad, he seems to be the one and only person that will affect the whole team if he is not there. That is something that PL cannot afford to let happen, so the solution is to reduce the opportunities where he might be injured / sent off, until someone can come in and take his place. On today''s performance, that person has not played for the club yet - here''s hoping that Howson fills that void!

[Mr. Bump 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

My hand is up O/p, sorry.

 

We have achieved what we wanted in the League with knobs on and neither cannot I ever get to grips with this opinion that a decent run in the Cup would be at the expense of a league position. Please explain why?  Your analysis is thorough and makes sense but over-analysis isn''t really necessary to explain a dire performance against average opposition in front of a vast fee paying crowd with high expectations. That''s the bottom line, not experimenting or whatever you wish to call it. The latter is for the training ground, not for the misery of 25, 000+ avant supporters.

[/quote]I agree, I''d have taken a win today over a win next week against Man Utd for sure. Don''t get me wrong, what the team has done this season is incredible and I am amazed and delighted with where we are in the league, but we''re not going to finish high enough to be in Europe and we''re not going to be anywhere near relegation, the main interest left in this season is seeing how high we can go in order to get as much money as possible, I''d rather that than a relegation battle but for me that doesn''t come close to the excitement of an FA Cup run, the main reason I am disappointed is because I know how good this team is and how far they could have gone.

[Downloads 35]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

Why should lambert be experimenting in the cup? Fans have paid £25 on top of their season ticket to watch todays game. they expect to see a full strength team who should be beating leicester and at worst competing with them!

Will holt, ruddy really want to not play? They will want to play every game possible!

And also by changing things and experimenting we have lost and morale will be down!

[/quote]

 

Why?????  Cos he''s the friggin boss and he can do what he wants. He''s earned the right to do what he wants and you have ZERO rights to have any of your favourite players on the pitch. Fans can expect to see what they choose but that £25 entitles you to nothing more than watching a game of football.

 

Lambert did what he thought best just like he has done over the last 3 years and you know, sometimes you get shite wrong. Do I think it was a good performance? Hell no. Do I think people should act like spoilt kids when we have a bad game? No.

 

Some of you twots are almost making out like he''s intentionally tried to sabbotage the club - The drama queens are in full effect tonight!

[Firedawg 3]

Hardly spoilt kids Downloads, just pissed off at not turning up. Surely Lambert keeps saying that the fans are the most important things at the club and without them there would be no club - well surely then the fans have a right to voice an opinion when we are crap !

Did you go today - no thought not .

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Downloads"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

Why should lambert be experimenting in the cup? Fans have paid £25 on top of their season ticket to watch todays game. they expect to see a full strength team who should be beating leicester and at worst competing with them!

Will holt, ruddy really want to not play? They will want to play every game possible!

And also by changing things and experimenting we have lost and morale will be down!

[/quote]

 

Why?????  Cos he''s the friggin boss and he can do what he wants. He''s earned the right to do what he wants and you have ZERO rights to have any of your favourite players on the pitch. Fans can expect to see what they choose but that £25 entitles you to nothing more than watching a game of football.

 

Lambert did what he thought best just like he has done over the last 3 years and you know, sometimes you get shite wrong. Do I think it was a good performance? Hell no. Do I think people should act like spoilt kids when we have a bad game? No.

 

Some of you twots are almost making out like he''s intentionally tried to sabbotage the club - The drama queens are in full effect tonight!

[/quote]NO, the problem is, some of us are daft enough to think the FA Cup is something to be valued beyond the £s Shillings & pence.  But it''s patently clear the club and half of the fans have in effect sold out totally to the EPL purely because of the money.What will it mean next year?  Well a similar fixture won''t get the same numbers attending because if some have the perception the club can''t be @rsed why should we spend extra to attend.

[Lisa Ate All The Bread Again 0]

I really do understand Lambet and the c,UBS attitude towards the cup today.

What baffled me as reflected in my own thread and posts since the game, was the fans mentality.

Before and during the game hearing fans say they don''t care, and as long as we beat Man Utd next week they don''t care if we go out. Honestly that attitude leaves a bad taste, as a fan you should be excited by the oldest most famous club competition in the world. We have played Man Utd before, we have beaten Man Utd before, we will play Man Utd again, we will beat man Utd again. Have we ever won the FA cup? No, will we ever? Who knows. Maybe not.

That attitude pissed me off today, and I understand a performance and selection like that doesn''t always give the fans a kick, but sitting next to people who shrugged there shoulders, and one prat saying stuff about not bothered about watching Leicester because Tthey get to see Rooney close up next week is a bad day in my view, and listening to some commens before and during the game did make me think some people have jumped on the bandwagon, and I really don''t want to moan about fellow ans but that attitude is wrong.

I do wonder if some of those are new age fans brought up on premiership big lights and flash names, I hope not. I know what most of you are saying about the premiership is more important financial, but fans near me today the impression I was given was that they saw the a cup as beneath s and wanted to see a big name star on the pitch.

I honestly looked around me today and thought why the fock are you even here today.

General consensus where I sat today was they were at a reserve friendly against Lowestoft.

Having said that today I sat in the Jerrold but only as I''ve been away and didn''t get my usual season ticket seat in time, don''t think I will be returning to that section in a hurry, barely a cheer when we did score.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

I dont understand how this is a premier league vs FA Cup situation??.....surely we have enough faith in our team to get 3/4 points out of the last 39 available?!?!?.....there was absolutely no reason to go all out for this today, and even with 8 hours passing , I''m still bloody furious at the team selection today

[Jacko 0]

Very strange team selection and ultimately we paid the price. It never had to be a choice between the League and the FA Cup. It would take an almost unprecedented collapse from here, for us not to still be a Premier League side come May. The players also have 8 days to rest for the Man Utd game. The burden of games has been shared around this season so I don''t see how anyone in the squad would have become massively fatigued by playing today.

When you look at how open the draw is, today represented a big opportunity missed of at least making a Wembley appearance. However must be stated that while the team seleciton and tactics were poor the team failed to do many of the basics correctly today. If that happens you are going to struggle whatever system or players you field.

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I dont understand how this is a premier league vs FA Cup situation??.....surely we have enough faith in our team to get 3/4 points out of the last 39 available?!?!?.....there was absolutely no reason to go all out for this today, and even with 8 hours passing , I''m still bloody furious at the team selection today[/quote]

 

GJL - you miss the point. It''s not about premiership survival - ergo your 3/4 points out of 39 available. It''s about trying to maintain or even improve upon our current position! Besides worth substantially more money than just surviving, being a top 10 premiership club acts as a magnet to quality players that we need to strengthen our squad.

 

I accept that you are still furious - but is it really at PL''s selection or is it that those on the pitch didn''t "turn up". Would you still be furious if we had won?