Hoolahan

[Gingerpele 0]

Have you read the posts Gruffalo?

I''m perfectly happy for people to have a different opinion on Hoolahan, I haven''t said he''s the key, best player ever, don''t ever insult him etc etc.

But no, instead of actually reading the posts, you like CDM have just jumped to a quite silly conclusion....

[Downloads 35]

Why wouldn''t we as Norwich fans be happy with one of our players who has a very high number of appearances this season, those combined with substitutions is in the top few and thats near the keeper who you would expect, played in as many cup games as anyone else and we lie 8th in the league.

 

These are good numbers I would say, all you bring to the table is your crap opinion about how he loses the ball lots and has one foot - Demonstrate some of his bad play (your opinion) with facts and figures and I would be interested, but you won''t, you''ll continue on with your broken record.

 

For the record, I personally am impressed with a number of Norwich players including, Ruddy, Whitbread, Ayala, Naugton (Not ours I Know), Martin, Tierney, Fox, Pilkington, think Bennett will get better, Hoolahan, Johnson, Surman, Morrison, Holt, Jackson, Steer in the cup.

 

I think every player can be criticised now and then, but you seem to pick out one player Mullins and that sir, makes you an idiot. FACT  : )

[smooth 114]

Its quite simple, this season all our players have been superb. No question, they have all stepped up from league 1, some with only 1 season of championship football. They have worked miracles under Lamberts guidance etc.

 

We have not had too many stand out individuals, because the team has been the stand out part of our season. It is what people first say to summarise NCFC, the team ethos is what is pulling through.

 

For me, I prefer a 4-4-2 and think that Hoolahan does not fit that mould. At the moment we are playing a few different formations and it is working for all of our players. I do think the most improtant thing is to be constantly moving forward and looking at those players that can develop their game and look at those from outside who can add a great deal. We can obviously improve every position, but it is a steady progression for this club with not the biggest finances. I do expect Hoolahan to be an impact player next season and that is the point people are right to say that players can be replaced because we are now looking at the next window for improvement our our squad. Howson and Bennett are to come in, with Vaughan upfront, so we have a few more options.

 

At the start of the season, commentators would have highlighted Hoolahan as our creative spark and he is, but maybe one of them. Pilky and Surman have proved that they have added as much as Hoolahan and they have scored more goals than Hoolahan. Would premiership teams be looking at Hoolahan as our stand-out player? Probably not and they will be aware that our midfield is a little less solid with Hoolahan in the team.

 

Again the boys have performed out of their skins, but there will be changes next season and I look forward to them.

[Downloads 35]

Some good and fair comments smooth.

 

I would agree that for me on occasion the 4-4-2 works best and when the diamond or whatever formation doesn''t work, you need to be prepared to change it up.

 

For me, if Howson is the greatest creative midfielder we have then I will be delighted and move over Hoolahan and let him make way.

 

But the constant digs from one or two posters is just silly, but I have no doubt will continue every year until one day he is dropped permanently and then they will claim victory despite many successful years.

[Herman 9,716]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]It isn''t just GP though CD Mullins. You must realise by now that the vast majority of lemming like individuals on here get a little over-sensitive when it comes to constructive criticism about their darling Wes?[/quote]

No,a lot of people can see his good and bad points.Where as you just seem to concentrate on the bad.

Against Bolton he was great,against Sunderland he was marked out of the game and he got a slating,and on saturday Ginge and Scooby perfectly summed up the game i watched.(Page 3).

On another thread you said that he shouldn''t be guaranteed a starting spot,and i think the majority would agree with you,but he still has an important part to play  in the team,whether as a sub or starter.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

At least Hoolahan was having a go on Saturday which is more than a certain other player can say!

[Yellow Rider 0]

On a slightly different note I was very annoyed with the jeers that Wes got from some fans (certainly a number in the Jarrold) towards the end of the game. Those fans were typical numbskulls and a disgrace.

I am a great fan of Hoolahan, when he''s gone and the DVD''s are dusted down, fair minded fans will acknowledge that they were fortunate enough to watch one of the most skilful and entertaining players ever to pull on the yelow shirt. Having said that I share the sometimes intense frustration that his performances can bring. The failure to play the quick and obvious pass to a team mate in space, the annoying habit to dribble into a blind alley of opposition shirts when a clearer path often lies ahead, the obsessive reliance on that damn left leg of his........the list goes on! 

And yet those seemingly glaring flaws often fade into irrelevance when the boy is in full flow. The wonderful balance and close control. The almost unbelievable ability at times to wriggle away from one, two sometimes three defenders. The rapier flighted balls he can play into the box and, above  all, his courage. Yes, his sheer bottle and tenacity to NEVER shirk, never hide no matter how things may be going against him. Wes ALWAYS wants the ball, when others hide (like second half Saturday) he keeps going, working back, making himself available and trying, trying and trying again to be positive and creative until the bitter end.   

Second half Saturday saw Wes as the ONLY midfielder to KEEP getting forward, keep dribbling at opponents and keep shooting. Yes, the target was often missed and  he could and should have set up others once or twice but the harder he tried the louder the jeers got. Fact is what support did the other three give him? Exactly - pretty much a big fat zilch! Fox never got over the half way line, Pilks might as well not have been on the pitch whilst Bennett had great difficulty actually passing to a yellow shirt. How many times did those three show a real positive or creative streak, how many shots did they conjure up even between the three of them? Yeah - exactly! Yet those dimwits in The Jarrold howled in derision whenever Wes showed the courage to TRY and score!

Of course he didn''t deserve MoM but then who did?

Never mind, you Wes haters, I assume you''d rather watch four Gary Holts line up for us in midfield with the frantic arm waving and lung bursting ''headless chicken'' type chasing after the ball wherever it went!!  

''Norwich fans best in the World'' - yeah right!!  

 

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Have you read the posts Gruffalo?

I''m perfectly happy for people to have a different opinion on Hoolahan, I haven''t said he''s the key, best player ever, don''t ever insult him etc etc.

But no, instead of actually reading the posts, you like CDM have just jumped to a quite silly conclusion....[/quote]How is my conclusion silly GP?Smooth sees to be hinting towards a similar conclusion with his comment here "At the start of the season, commentators would have highlighted Hoolahan

as our creative spark and he is, but maybe one of them. Pilky and

Surman have proved that they have added as much as Hoolahan and they

have scored more goals than Hoolahan. Would premiership teams be looking

at Hoolahan as our stand-out player? Probably not and they will be

aware that our midfield is a little less solid with Hoolahan in the

team."You seem to give the impression that you believe Hoolahan is our most creative player and that the midfield is more balanced with him in the starting 11 than it is with him being used from the bench when everybody is fit?Well I''m sorry but my opinion is different and I think that our strongest midfield was used at Swansea away.  Add Howson to our midfield options in a few weeks time and our so called best midfielder Wes starts to drift down the pecking order even further possibly?In my opinion our midfield has looked strong in few Premier League matches that Wes has started, Bolton (a), Sunderland (h), Newcastle (h), Everton (a) and possibly Bolton (h).  Wes also done well when coming off the bench for the last half hour or so of the QPR (h) game.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Herman "]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]It isn''t just GP though CD Mullins. You must realise by now that the vast majority of lemming like individuals on here get a little over-sensitive when it comes to constructive criticism about their darling Wes?[/quote]

No,a lot of people can see his good and bad points.Where as you just seem to concentrate on the bad.

Against Bolton he was great,against Sunderland he was marked out of the game and he got a slating,and on saturday Ginge and Scooby perfectly summed up the game i watched.(Page 3).

On another thread you said that he shouldn''t be guaranteed a starting spot,and i think the majority would agree with you,but he still has an important part to play  in the team,whether as a sub or starter.

[/quote]Please show me where I disagree with you on this point. I know that Wes still has a part to play, but I would rather that be from the bench in most games if we have a full selection of midfielders to choose from. Wes can be very dangerous with fresh legs towards the end of many games when he has more time and space on the ball to try and play that killer pass.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

On a slightly different note I was very annoyed with the jeers that Wes got from some fans (certainly a number in the Jarrold) towards the end of the game. Those fans were typical numbskulls and a disgrace.

I am a great fan of Hoolahan, when he''s gone and the DVD''s are dusted down, fair minded fans will acknowledge that they were fortunate enough to watch one of the most skilful and entertaining players ever to pull on the yelow shirt. Having said that I share the sometimes intense frustration that his performances can bring. The failure to play the quick and obvious pass to a team mate in space, the annoying habit to dribble into a blind alley of opposition shirts when a clearer path often lies ahead, the obsessive reliance on that damn left leg of his........the list goes on! 

And yet those seemingly glaring flaws often fade into irrelevance when the boy is in full flow. The wonderful balance and close control. The almost unbelievable ability at times to wriggle away from one, two sometimes three defenders. The rapier flighted balls he can play into the box and, above  all, his courage. Yes, his sheer bottle and tenacity to NEVER shirk, never hide no matter how things may be going against him. Wes ALWAYS wants the ball, when others hide (like second half Saturday) he keeps going, working back, making himself available and trying, trying and trying again to be positive and creative until the bitter end.   

Second half Saturday saw Wes as the ONLY midfielder to KEEP getting forward, keep dribbling at opponents and keep shooting. Yes, the target was often missed and  he could and should have set up others once or twice but the harder he tried the louder the jeers got. Fact is what support did the other three give him? Exactly - pretty much a big fat zilch! Fox never got over the half way line, Pilks might as well not have been on the pitch whilst Bennett had great difficulty actually passing to a yellow shirt. How many times did those three show a real positive or creative streak, how many shots did they conjure up even between the three of them? Yeah - exactly! Yet those dimwits in The Jarrold howled in derision whenever Wes showed the courage to TRY and score!

Of course he didn''t deserve MoM but then who did?

Never mind, you Wes haters, I assume you''d rather watch four Gary Holts line up for us in midfield with the frantic arm waving and lung bursting ''headless chicken'' type chasing after the ball wherever it went!!  

''Norwich fans best in the World'' - yeah right!!  

 

[/quote]There was me thinking that was the midfielder at the base of the diamonds role?Some seem to be putting Bennett up for a man of the match candidate.

[bringbackandyhughes 0]

For all the skill Wes has have we actually seen much end product this season?

[spencer 1970 207]

I''m a massive Wes fan but admit he''s been on/off this season.

Here''s one for you...was he found out on saturday because the "form player" and recently his foil in Surman not on the pitch?

Just a thought.

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"][quote user="Gingerpele"]Have you read the posts Gruffalo?

I''m perfectly happy for people to have a different opinion on Hoolahan, I haven''t said he''s the key, best player ever, don''t ever insult him etc etc.

But no, instead of actually reading the posts, you like CDM have just jumped to a quite silly conclusion....[/quote]How is my conclusion silly GP?Smooth sees to be hinting towards a similar conclusion with his comment here "At the start of the season, commentators would have highlighted Hoolahan

as our creative spark and he is, but maybe one of them. Pilky and

Surman have proved that they have added as much as Hoolahan and they

have scored more goals than Hoolahan. Would premiership teams be looking

at Hoolahan as our stand-out player? Probably not and they will be

aware that our midfield is a little less solid with Hoolahan in the

team."You seem to give the impression that you believe Hoolahan is our most creative player and that the midfield is more balanced with him in the starting 11 than it is with him being used from the bench when everybody is fit?Well I''m sorry but my opinion is different and I think that our strongest midfield was used at Swansea away.  Add Howson to our midfield options in a few weeks time and our so called best midfielder Wes starts to drift down the pecking order even further possibly?In my opinion our midfield has looked strong in few Premier League matches that Wes has started, Bolton (a), Sunderland (h), Newcastle (h), Everton (a) and possibly Bolton (h).  Wes also done well when coming off the bench for the last half hour or so of the QPR (h) game.[/quote]

I didn''t say anything about wether I think Hoolahan should start or be on the bench, I also said that Hoolahan wasn''t as effective without Surman (and other players being off par), now surely that doesn''t suggest that I think Hoolahan is the be all and end all? In fact I thought I was suggesting more what you are, Hoolahan isn''t effective if the players around him aren''t right/playing well. I''m perfectly happy for Hoolahan to be on the bench and come on for 20 or so minuets.

The main problem with Hoolahan, is what I just highlighted I think, when Morison was missing, Jackson was slightly off par, Pilks was missing, Bennett was trying to cover every inch of the pitch and Fox misplacing a lot more passes than normal, Hoolahan was severely limited. He is a very very good player, but he obviously needs the right players around him to turn that skill into something meaningful, he did plenty of running around with the ball, played a could of decent balls, and had a few shots on Saturday, so he was by no means poor (something that I do have issue with other people claiming).

We do have a strong midfield without Wes, but we also have a strong midfield with him, i''m not mentioning Lambert as a cop out, but don''t you think his continuos going back to the diamond formation, isn''t just for fun? He must think Wes is an important player, and in a few games such as Bolton home he does very well, with Fox and Surman on form, it really puts less pressure on Hoolahan and he can do the ''simple'' stuff a lot more, and that may not mean goals or direct assists for him, but I would bet that a large proportion of our goals scored when he is on the pitch, involve Wes at some stage (probably a fairly decent percentage of our goals overall). I don''t know why you and CDMullins have presumed I love Wes so much and think he should be playing every minute, I was going to post in the team for Manure thread that we should play the same midfield as we did Swansea away, I think that was a great set up, and am very glad Surman played brilliantly in CM alongside Fox, meaning we could play 4-4-2 with two out and out wingers, with Surman and Fox.

And why are you saying ''i''m sorry but my opinion is different'' we are allowed different opinions, wouldn''t be much point in having a forum if we all thought the same, and I haven''t said your opinion isn''t valid or is ''wrong'', just that in your post directing me earlier, I thought you were making conclusions that were incorrect.

[Gingerpele 0]

And just to add to that, Surman is my favourite midfield player at the moment, I would sooner see him in the starting line up than Hoolahan, I think he''s as key as most people think Fox is....

[bringbackandyhughes 0]

[quote user="spencer 1970"]I''m a massive Wes fan but admit he''s been on/off this season.

Here''s one for you...was he found out on saturday because the "form player" and recently his foil in Surman not on the pitch?

Just a thought.[/quote]

Spencer that is a good question, have been very impressed with Surman since he got a run in the side. Really seems to make us tick wen he''s playing well.

Is going to be interesting to see where Howson fits in as well.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]And just to add to that, Surman is my favourite midfield player at the moment, I would sooner see him in the starting line up than Hoolahan, I think he''s as key as most people think Fox is....[/quote]Surman is my favourite midfielder at the club too [Y] We played our best football towards the end of last season when Surman had regained fitness after his early season injury and the impact he has had in recent games has been massive too. I think that we look a much better team when Surman is fit and playing well as I think that he is the nearest thing that we currently have at the club to the complete midfielder, ie; he has a little bit of everything to his game, something which all of our other midfielders seem to lack at this level.

[CDMullins 436]

[quote user="Downloads"]

Why wouldn''t we as Norwich fans be happy with one of our players who has a very high number of appearances this season, those combined with substitutions is in the top few and thats near the keeper who you would expect, played in as many cup games as anyone else and we lie 8th in the league.

 

These are good numbers I would say, all you bring to the table is your crap opinion about how he loses the ball lots and has one foot - Demonstrate some of his bad play (your opinion) with facts and figures and I would be interested, but you won''t, you''ll continue on with your broken record.

 

For the record, I personally am impressed with a number of Norwich players including, Ruddy, Whitbread, Ayala, Naugton (Not ours I Know), Martin, Tierney, Fox, Pilkington, think Bennett will get better, Hoolahan, Johnson, Surman, Morrison, Holt, Jackson, Steer in the cup.

 

I think every player can be criticised now and then, but you seem to pick out one player Mullins and that sir, makes you an idiot. FACT  : )

[/quote]

 

If you got of your high horse and had a little look, you''d notice ive not said a word about Wes''s performance (In any thread) on Saturday,

 

I dont need to, it spoke for itself.

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="Gingerpele"]Such a shame the manager of a club placed 8th in the Premiership appears to disagree with you isn''t it....[/quote]When are you going to stop using that argunment GP?So non of us can have an opinion becuase Paul Lambert does the opposit?Alex Ferguson the best manager of all time as bought some dud''s Prunnier, Tiabi, Djema Djema, Bebe, the list is endless.Saying, well Lambert must like him, is childish.And just to counter your childishness, Trappatoni doesnt like him, and today he as named Sunderland''s James McClean in his squad.[/quote]........trap has also called up a midfielder from derby today as a replacement, so wes falls even further down the international ladder.

[GJP 79]

And yet Wes is currently the highest placed Irish player in the Premier League.

 

Ireland have got enough decent players in that squad to get by and probably have a decent Euro campaign. But that''s all they''ll do if they''re happy to stick with safe and samey players like Fahey, Andrews and Green.

 

They''re happy to do "alright" and leave it at that. Paul Lambert and Norwich City are far more ambitious.

 

 

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

And yet Wes is currently the highest placed Irish player in the Premier League.

 

Ireland have got enough decent players in that squad to get by and probably have a decent Euro campaign. But that''s all they''ll do if they''re happy to stick with safe and samey players like Fahey, Andrews and Green.

 

They''re happy to do "alright" and leave it at that. Paul Lambert and Norwich City are far more ambitious.

 

 

[/quote]Oh of course GJP, if only Trappatoni takes Wes the the Republic of Ireland will win the Euros.How silly of him! [:|]

[Yobocop 1,095]

That''s why Mcclean has been called up presumably.

Hoolahan is a top player but he is one of those players who you have to pick a team around and Saturday just gone it didn''t work!

No one is saying he is poor but to suggest an international manager is getting it wrong is ludicrous, I really hope Wes gets his chance but trappa obviously doesn''t rate him.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "] No one is saying he is poor but to suggest an international manager is getting it wrong is ludicrous.[/quote]

 

Because international managers never get anything wrong do they?

 

 

[;)]

 

[unique 434]

EVERY Norwich City player has stepped up to the plate this season...and some. But if you had to name one player out of the entire squad who is perhaps under-achieving, then I think Hoolahan''s name would crop up more than most.

A penalty aside, he hasn''t troubled the scoreboard this season other than the opening goal. I wouldn''t know what his assist count is, but I would guess that the two stats are nowhere near as high as a player with his talent should produce.

The fact that he seemingly surenders more possession than any other player is a frustration, but as much to do with his appetite for the ball. Although he has proved a far greater asset to Norwich than Taraabt has to QPR, he has had nowhere near the impact that McClean has had on Sunderland this last month or so.

Hoolahan will continue to frustrate and divide fans'' opinions right up to the last game of the season, no doubt.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="unique"] A penalty aside, he hasn''t troubled the scoreboard this season other than the opening goal. I wouldn''t know what his assist count is, but I would guess that the two stats are nowhere near as high as a player with his talent should produce. [/quote]

 

I think this is probably fair although the whole notion of an ''assist'' in football is slightly ridiculous. He has four assists to his name this season which is our joint highest alongside Morison, Johnson and Bennett so criticism for this aspect of his game seems harsh. He doesn''t seem to pose as much of a threat in attacking areas as he has done in previous seasons but I think there are extenuating circumstances behind this. Firstly, he has had much more defensive responsibility in a lot of the games he has played with the diamond not used as often. Secondly, our style of play has altered slightly with the addition of two wide players to the squad and another Number 9 in Steve Morison. We are more direct and play more vertical football. This is working well for us but Wes does not get on the ball so much in dangerous areas. Thirdly, Premier League defences are a lot more difficult to break down in open play. So I think it is probably right that we could get more out of him but it is as much down to our tactics as it is his performances.

 

[quote user="unique"]  The fact that he seemingly surenders more possession than any other player is a frustration, but as much to do with his appetite for the ball. Although he has proved a far greater asset to Norwich than Taraabt has to QPR, he has had nowhere near the impact that McClean has had on Sunderland this last month or so. [/quote]

 

The perception that he gives the ball away more than any other player has been proven to be false on many occasions but people still insist on perpetuating the myth. His completes 85.5% of his passes succesfully which is higher than any of our other regular starters. He is dispossesed more often per game on average than any other player but as he also completes more sucessful dribbles per game than any other player you can probbaly put this down to the fact that he simply attempts to beat his man more than any other player. And anyway he is dispossesed on average just once more per game than Grant Holt who nobody would accuse of giving the ball away cheaply.

 

It is no great surprise that a winger like McClean is prospering under Martin O''Neill as he is a manager who always sends his teams out with plenty of width. I''m not really sure what relevance he has to whether Hoolahan is underperforming? Aside from their Irishness they have absolutely nothing in common.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

My problem with Hoolahan is we can''t always play our best side with him in it. When I say best side I mean the best 1 to play against the opposition. Tactics determine the best team to field. The team that plays against 1 side is not always the best against another as we have seen this season. Hoolahan gets knocked off the ball too easily too often because the opposition swamp him and their tactics work. This is when he needs replacing because he is not effective. He also has a habit of taking 1 touch too many.

[lake district canary 0]

This season we have had :

 

Don''t rate Surman

Don''t rate Holt

Don''t rate Morison

Don''t rate Hoolahan

Don''t rate Barnett

Don''t rate Ward

Don''t rate Naughton

Don''t rate Ruddy

Don''t rate Johnson

Don''t rate Fox

Don''t rate Wilbraham

Don''t rate Crofts

Don''t rate Jackson

 

This continuous getting at our players on this board - and at Carrow Rd - is stupid.  Opinion is divided and we all have opinions.  I just wish those that are so negative about such an important player over the years would shut up.   A player like Hoolahan is a confidence player.       He needs to be boosted by fans, not moaned at and abused if occasionally he gives the ball away (and its been proved he doesn''t do that any more than any other player, by the way).    If he had the support of all fans at matches, he would be more productive. He already is one of the hardest workers in the team as well as one of the most skilful.    Support our players you morons and you might just find you get more out of them.

 

 

 

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

The perception that he gives the ball away more than any other player has been proven to be false on many occasions but people still insist on perpetuating the myth. His completes 85.5% of his passes succesfully which is higher than any of our other regular starters. He is dispossesed more often per game on average than any other player but as he also completes more sucessful dribbles per game than any other player you can probbaly put this down to the fact that he simply attempts to beat his man more than any other player. And anyway he is dispossesed on average just once more per game than Grant Holt who nobody would accuse of giving the ball away cheaply.

[/quote]What about the number of hospital balls he has given this season? Are they counted in the official pass completion stats?

[Shack Attack 0]

Do you want to put a number on those hospital balls so we can discuss how often he does it? Anyway where some see a hospital ball others see a team mate not anticipating a pass. Like every other poster who was claimed that ''Hoolahan gives the ball away cheaply'' you are clutching at straws in the face of statistical proof that you are wrong. No one is saying he''s a world beater (I''m not sure where this idea comes from that he gets an easy ride on here. I''ve spent the last two years on here arguing with people who don''t rate him) or that he never gets dispossessed but the myth that he continually gives the ball away is just that. A myth.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]Do you want to put a number on those hospital balls so we can discuss how often he does it? Anyway where some see a hospital ball others see a team mate not anticipating a pass. Like every other poster who was claimed that ''Hoolahan gives the ball away cheaply'' you are clutching at straws in the face of statistical proof that you are wrong. No one is saying he''s a world beater (I''m not sure where this idea comes from that he gets an easy ride on here. I''ve spent the last two years on here arguing with people who don''t rate him) or that he never gets dispossessed but the myth that he continually gives the ball away is just that. A myth.[/quote]Stats prove anything you want them to Shack. Last season the stats told us that Neil Warnock was a better football manager than Paul Lambert.I would estimate that Wes has given one of his team mates a hospital ball far moe than he should have done this season, I don''t keep a running tally as to how many times he does it, but it has been far too often since November for my liking. As for why Lambert let Wes take that penalty last Saturday, when he had so many more capable strikers of the ball/finishers on the pitch is beyond me.

[7rew 0]

Words prove anything you want the too Gruffalo. Last year words showed Paul Jewell was a better manager than Paul Lambert.

Well its as true as your statement about statistics.