Fernandes - warning signs already

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Stunning volley from Goss"]Maybe someone can explain to me why a West Ham fan would want to buy or invest money into any other club. I''m Norwich City through n through my blood runs yellow & green & there is no way on the earth had I a spare few quid in my back pocket I would put it into any club other than Norwich. Fernandes is a West Ham supporter yet has the audacity to wear a QPR scarf. Don''t get me wrong I would love PL to have the money available that Fernandes has reported to have made available, I use the word reported as those that shout about it & all that, but not at the expense of having him hold a gun to PL''s head. I just don''t understand the status of owning a football club, a good mate of mine(who shall remain nameless) is on his third club & although he is worth several millions there is no way I would want him having anything to do with Norwich as he doesnt support them!!!!![/quote]

 

It''s a good point, and one which Fernandes got around like this;

"Everyone knows I''ve followed West Ham all my life but I''ve always had a soft spot for QPR. Rangers were one of the first teams I watched as a child at Loftus Road."

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

I also forgot to say earlier that only an idiot would underestimate Tony Fernandes - just look at the achievements in his life to see that this guy is serious and will probably turn QPR into a very successful football club (well successfull from Fernandes'' point of view).

[a1canary 0]

You could say that about all sorts of business people who have gone in to football. Yet they''ve still come a cropper. Fernandes was a protege of Branson at Virgin and went and set up an Easyjet style airline in S.E. Asia. He has done a good job, albeit in a very favourable market place with no low cost competition. He has since, easyjet style, expanded in to hotels with a similar low cost model, stelios style. But he''s not the Messiah!

Here''s a question for people, who would you rather have at the helm of NCFC today. D&MWJ with all that they''ve learnt from bitter experience in the past. OR Fernandes who has more resources but:

a) has other business interests and priorities competing for.those resources

b) is a west ham fan

c) owns the one thing on the planet that can swallow as much money as a not very good premier league football club - a not very good F1 team.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="a1canary"]You could say that about all sorts of business people who have gone in to football. Yet they''ve still come a cropper. Fernandes was a protege of Branson at Virgin and went and set up an Easyjet style airline in S.E. Asia. He has done a good job, albeit in a very favourable market place with no low cost competition. He has since, easyjet style, expanded in to hotels with a similar low cost model, stelios style. But he''s not the Messiah! Here''s a question for people, who would you rather have at the helm of NCFC today. D&MWJ with all that they''ve learnt from bitter experience in the past. OR Fernandes who has more resources but: a) has other business interests and priorities competing for.those resources b) is a west ham fan c) owns the one thing on the planet that can swallow as much money as a not very good premier league football club - a not very good F1 team.[/quote]

It''s not quite as simple as that! He had to create the market first - before he came along companies had to pay large amounts of money to Governments to use their airspace, he successfully lobbied to remove these tariffs - open up most of Asia to low-fare airlines. It wasn''t he was just the first guy to come along and start a company, many people had been trying and failing to do it for years.

 

I''m not saying I would want him in charge of Norwich City though, he will use QPR as a marketing tool but this can run in tandem with the fans'' desires, a successful team is the end goal for both Fernandes and supporters alike.

 

I wouldn''t want him in charge at Norwich because I am very happy with the current set up we have, of course it would be nice to have a Dave Whelan style sugar daddy throwing cash at the club - but other teams have shown that with sensible planning success can be achieved on a small budget. Fulham have been a prime example of this in recent years - Al-Fayed stopped putting money into the team a long time ago but through sensible manager appointments and clever business in the transfer market they got to a UEFA Cup Final.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="a1canary"]You could say that about all sorts of business people who have gone in to football. Yet they''ve still come a cropper. Fernandes was a protege of Branson at Virgin and went and set up an Easyjet style airline in S.E. Asia. He has done a good job, albeit in a very favourable market place with no low cost competition. He has since, easyjet style, expanded in to hotels with a similar low cost model, stelios style. But he''s not the Messiah! Here''s a question for people, who would you rather have at the helm of NCFC today. D&MWJ with all that they''ve learnt from bitter experience in the past. OR Fernandes who has more resources but: a) has other business interests and priorities competing for.those resources b) is a west ham fan c) owns the one thing on the planet that can swallow as much money as a not very good premier league football club - a not very good F1 team.[/quote]

 

I don''t disagree with the tenor of much of that post. I have said all along the worry with Fernandes is that he is spreading himself too thin, both in terms of money and time. That said, the real money is the Mittal fortune, and that is not disappearing down a Formula One black hole.

 

One also needs to differentiate between how Fernandes is behaving now at QPR with his new toy - very hands on - and how he may be operating in a year or two, once he is happy with how things are going.

 

Like Bethnal I think you are underplaying what he has achieved so far in business, but - equally - football is notorious for turning business geniuses into total idiots.

[Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . . 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

If Lambert had the budget and absolutely control of who he wanted, that would be rather nice!

But some of the buggers probably still wouldn''t want to come here, shades of that bloke who wouldn''t because his wife didn''t want to come here and the other one who faffed around and then gratefully took the offer from Wigan!

Not surprised I can''t remember the names!

[/quote]

 

That was Cottterill, who was joining us until Craig Bellamy advised him to go to Wigan. It seemed a shame, at the time.

[/quote]

[Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . . 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

If Lambert had the budget and absolutely control of who he wanted, that would be rather nice!

But some of the buggers probably still wouldn''t want to come here, shades of that bloke who wouldn''t because his wife didn''t want to come here and the other one who faffed around and then gratefully took the offer from Wigan!

Not surprised I can''t remember the names!

[/quote]

 

That was Cottterill, who was joining us until Craig Bellamy advised him to go to Wigan. It seemed a shame, at the time.

[/quote]When was this? And what was bellamy''s reasoning?

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="a1canary"]You could say that about all sorts of business people who have gone in to football. Yet they''ve still come a cropper. Fernandes was a protege of Branson at Virgin and went and set up an Easyjet style airline in S.E. Asia. He has done a good job, albeit in a very favourable market place with no low cost competition. He has since, easyjet style, expanded in to hotels with a similar low cost model, stelios style. But he''s not the Messiah! Here''s a question for people, who would you rather have at the helm of NCFC today. D&MWJ with all that they''ve learnt from bitter experience in the past. OR Fernandes who has more resources but: a) has other business interests and priorities competing for.those resources b) is a west ham fan c) owns the one thing on the planet that can swallow as much money as a not very good premier league football club - a not very good F1 team.[/quote]

 

I don''t disagree with the tenor of much of that post. I have said all along the worry with Fernandes is that he is spreading himself too thin, both in terms of money and time. That said, the real money is the Mittal fortune, and that is not disappearing down a Formula One black hole.

 

One also needs to differentiate between how Fernandes is behaving now at QPR with his new toy - very hands on - and how he may be operating in a year or two, once he is happy with how things are going.

 

Like Bethnal I think you are underplaying what he has achieved so far in business, but - equally - football is notorious for turning business geniuses into total idiots.

[/quote]

Mr A Sugar found out the hard way at Spurs, i think Fernandes will follow suit.

H

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

It was the summer of 2006. We seemd to have it sewn up. A £2m deal with Bristol City. Wigan came in very late, with a Premier League package. Cotterill said he asked Bellamy, who advised him to join Wigan. How much it was Bellamy''s opinion (which was probably that if he had a chance of PL football he should take it) and how much extra PL wages, who can say.

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

I think bringing in mark Hughes was a good bit of business. A proven track record in the premier league. According to sky sports he said mark Hughes can sign whoever he wants in this transfer window. The plan is to stay up this season and build on it next for European football. Sounds good for now but what if they don''t get European football next year? I''m much happier with our set up because one day we will go back down and when we do with our set up we should be ok financially. Another thing, why did Hughes leave fulham? Very similar in the size of club. Was it lack of funds?,

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="Bryangunnshairline"]I think bringing in mark Hughes was a good bit of business. A proven track record in the premier league. According to sky sports he said mark Hughes can sign whoever he wants in this transfer window. The plan is to stay up this season and build on it next for European football. Sounds good for now but what if they don''t get European football next year? I''m much happier with our set up because one day we will go back down and when we do with our set up we should be ok financially. Another thing, why did Hughes leave fulham? Very similar in the size of club. Was it lack of funds?,[/quote]

I would have thought Mark Hughes would have learned a lesson at Man-City, didn''t he leave because directors telling him who they wanted also doing the same thing that Fernandoes is also about to do, ThinkSparky will be gone come the summer.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Bryangunnshairline"]I think bringing in mark Hughes was a good bit of business. A proven track record in the premier league. According to sky sports he said mark Hughes can sign whoever he wants in this transfer window. The plan is to stay up this season and build on it next for European football. Sounds good for now but what if they don''t get European football next year? I''m much happier with our set up because one day we will go back down and when we do with our set up we should be ok financially. Another thing, why did Hughes leave fulham? Very similar in the size of club. Was it lack of funds?,[/quote]

Hughes left Fulham saying it was due to ''lack of ambition'', but it was also related to him thinking he would get the Aston Villa job - by quiting before being contacted by Villa it would avoid compensation payments being needed.

 

Hughes is a good manager, he has never really failed at a club and only been sacked once, at Man City. At the time many people felt that was unfair and looking at the current Man City side many of the players were brought in by Hughes - the board however felt he didn''t have enough ''kudos'' to bring in the really big names and he found it hard to work with big name players. There were also arguements about players being bought without Hughes knowing about it - the most famous example was the Robinho transfer were Hughes was out enjoying a round of golf and had no idea of the transfer until Sky Sports phoned him up to tell him about it.

 

The main problem with Hughes is his involvement with football ''advisor'' Kia Joorabchian - a very shady character who many clubs find very difficult to work with. Although he technically isn''t an agent he ''give advice'' to many footballers, including Nedum Onhura, Wayne Bridge and Carlos Tevez. I would expect to see many of Kia Joorabchian''s ''friends'' suddenly being signed by QPR, and all of them getting rather generous wage packages.

[Marty 0]

blimey, people do get wound up by a little humourous sexism, is there anything we can''t laugh at nowadays?As a middle aged, heterosexual white male, can I now expect the future of comedy to be entirely based at my expense?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The main problem with Hughes is his involvement with football ''advisor'' Kia Joorabchian - a very shady character who many clubs find very difficult to work with. Although he technically isn''t an agent he ''give advice'' to many footballers, including Nedum Onhura, Wayne Bridge and Carlos Tevez. I would expect to see many of Kia Joorabchian''s ''friends'' suddenly being signed by QPR, and all of them getting rather generous wage packages.

[/quote]

 

I knew, BY+G, that Hughes had had dealings with Joorabchian, but what you are suggesting is that he (Hughes) is more aligned than most with him. Is that the case ? And, if so, is that fairly common in football ? I''d always thought that these agent type characters had certain players "on their books", and tried to hawk them round various clubs, irrespective of who the manager is.

 

So are you saying that managers themselves involve themselves in "special relationships" with thse guys ?  If so, then there must be clashes of interest on a very regularly basis. Perhaps I''m being naive here, but if this practice is widespread, then it''s worrying.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The main problem with Hughes is his involvement with football ''advisor'' Kia Joorabchian - a very shady character who many clubs find very difficult to work with. Although he technically isn''t an agent he ''give advice'' to many footballers, including Nedum Onhura, Wayne Bridge and Carlos Tevez. I would expect to see many of Kia Joorabchian''s ''friends'' suddenly being signed by QPR, and all of them getting rather generous wage packages.

[/quote]

 

I knew, BY+G, that Hughes had had dealings with Joorabchian, but what you are suggesting is that he (Hughes) is more aligned than most with him. Is that the case ? And, if so, is that fairly common in football ? I''d always thought that these agent type characters had certain players "on their books", and tried to hawk them round various clubs, irrespective of who the manager is.

 

So are you saying that managers themselves involve themselves in "special relationships" with thse guys ?  If so, then there must be clashes of interest on a very regularly basis. Perhaps I''m being naive here, but if this practice is widespread, then it''s worrying.

[/quote]

It''s becoming more and more common - for me the most interesting case is Blackburn. Jerome Anderson helped the Venky''s to buy Blackburn from its previous owners - Jermone Anderson happens to be Steve Kean''s agent and represents many players through the companys SEM and Kentaro. One of the first transfers to Blackburn under the Venky era was Jerome Anderson''s son Myles...

 

Agents will pimp their players out to all clubs if they feel there is a possiblilty of a move or increasing the player''s wages and value. But by working closely with certain managers and clubs the agent has direct influence in transfers and can end up on both sides of the negotiating table (not officially of course). Joorabchian or Anderson, for example, can tell Hughes or Kean the exact terms of another team''s players'' contracts, release fees etc Through Kentaro, Anderson is pretty much in charge of Blackburn''s transfer policy, why would he try to sign another agency''s player when buying one of Kentaro''s would provide a kick back for the company and himself?

 

I feel the conflict of interest between agents working for managers and players will be a large talking point in the Premier League in the next couple of seasons - as well as the increasing amount of agents who ''advice'' club owners on transfers.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Bethnal. You sort of hope against hope that this sort of malarkey doesn''t go on ,but with modern football being what it is , and controlled by the sort of people  by whom it is, you rather suspect that , in practice, it''s rife.

 

As you say , it''s tailor made for all types of abuse ; an accident waiting to happen if you like. So yes, no doubt we will be hearing a lot more about it over the course of the next couple of years.

[First Wizard 0]

I''d love City to have the spending power of QPR but whilst Delia and small Fry are on board, prudence will always reign over ambition.

 

Fernandes could have been at City otherwise imo.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="Marty"]blimey, people do get wound up by a little humourous sexism, is there anything we can''t laugh at nowadays?As a middle aged, heterosexual white male, can I now expect the future of comedy to be entirely based at my expense?[/quote]

While I appreciate your sentiments Marty, I think of all the people on this board, you and your hamsters are the last ones that should get themselves involved in this one!

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="Marty"]blimey, people do get wound up by a little humourous sexism, is there anything we can''t laugh at nowadays?As a middle aged, heterosexual white male, can I now expect the future of comedy to be entirely based at my expense?[/quote]

While I appreciate your sentiments Marty, I think of all the people on this board, you and your hamsters are the last ones that should get themselves involved in this one![/quote]

Men ''n'' paws huh? Clearly a suppressed latent sexist who will jump at any opportunity to poke the fairer sex.

[The Fish Seller 0]

>fun at< obviously. [:S]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

I''d love City to have the spending power of QPR but whilst Delia and small Fry are on board, prudence will always reign over ambition.

 

Fernandes could have been at City otherwise imo.

[/quote]

 

Bizarre happening. Just had an email from a QPR fan who had the deep joy of working for me. He sent me the following post from a QPR forum, from someone calling themselves First Wizard, and with a Norwich City logo:

 

We were courting him [Fernandes] to invest in us, but ruddy Delia stupidly blocked it as he wanted total control.

 

Any truth in this, my QPR friend asked. No, I replied, absolute b*ll*cks. As is well-known Fernandes had shown no interest in Norwich City, and was effectively bounced into seeming to take an interest by Canary supporters working for  him at Lotus. He was then - and this is a matter of hard fact - still trying to take over West Ham (his real love in football) and would have done nothing to jeopardise that. Since you can''t own two clubs there was never a chance of him being denied total control, since he couldn''t have wanted total control. It was only after he failed to get West Ham that he suddenly decided he could fall in love with QPR.

 

I kind of get the attention-seeking point of posting stuff here about Norwich City that is, er,  inconsistent with the facts. The rationale behind doing it on another club''s site rather escapes me.