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lake district canary

There's no such thing as safety...........

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I''ve seen two comments I really like this morning:  Zippers -  "live in the here and now",   Bryangunnshairline - "one game at a time".

 

This is the reality of what footballers/managers have to do.  Unfortunately fans - who are an emotional, neurotic, superstitious bunch -  very rarely see it like they do.    We are doing well as a club - everything is positive and we are moving forward.  

 

BUT - some fans think its all over - that we''re safe -whoopee!  Well I''ve got news folks - tthere is still a third of a season to go and alot of points at stake.

 

Thank goodness we have such an astute manager that he manages to keep the team playing consistently and playing in the present.

 

You  out there  who think we are safe -  should know that football is as funny game and it is still all to play for.    At the start of the season there were lots of complaints that we were''nt good enough - nearly every player in the squad has been subjected to insults and slagging off at some point on here - even up to this week with AW.  There is even one poster who has as a signature a slur on one of our most successful players! 

 

Now we are being successful all of a sudden everything in the garden is rosy and some of the same people who were so negative at the start of the season are now saying "we must be safe now" (you know who you are).    To those people we''ve all of a sudden we''ve turned from no hopers to a successful premiership club.   

 

The truth is that today we are doing well.   This is the only thing that matters.  And we should enjoy that.    It doesn''t mean we are going to do well tomorrow or even next Saturday - it means we are successful today.   The two comments I have put at the top shows that there are some realists out there - people who recognise that you are only as successful as your last match - and I am sure this is what the manager and players think too. 

 

You have to be in the now.   If more fans could appreciate this, we would be a much happier bunch.  

 

Perhaps we don''t want to be happy??     Perhaps we want to be able to shout and scream abuse at our players and run them down on forums like this  (even ones that are doing well).   Maybe alot of us  have to have an  outlet where we can  let off steam.  

 

But, I suppose as long as the manager and team are realistic and play each match as it comes, then it doesn''t matter what fans say/do/think.  But there is part of me that thinks - wow, if more of the fans could buy into the same ethos - it could not only help the atomosphere at matches, but it could change peoples lives..................................

 

We are where we are today and shouldn''t live in the past - where we slag off everyone because we think they''re not good enough.   But we shouldn''t live in the future - where we are safe - because we don''t know that.   

 

As I quoted at the beginning    "one game at a time"  "live in the here and now".    

 

It works you know - ask PL.

 

 

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I''m sorry, but I don''t recall a single post on here by anyone saying that we''re safe now. If I''ve missed it, I''m happy to be proven wrong.............[:^)]

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Yes, LDC...to be fair , I do not read all of EVERY thread, but I certainly cannot remember anybody suggesting we are safe. so I''m afraid you are either looking for problems that aren''t there, or are putting words in peoples'' mouths.

 

At the risk of stating the bleedin'' obvious, I ,for one would like to see us pass the 40 pt mark asap, because then , barring a mathematical freak, we ARE safe to all intents and purposes. Also, the longer the race goes on , more pressure is piled on. Let''s not forget that it''s been collapses in March and April that have done for teams like Burnley, Hull and Blackpool in the last few years.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

I''ve seen two comments I really like this morning:  Zippers -  "live in the here and now",   Bryangunnshairline - "one game at a time".

 

This is the reality of what footballers/managers have to do.  Unfortunately fans - who are an emotional, neurotic, superstitious bunch -  very rarely see it like they do.    We are doing well as a club - everything is positive and we are moving forward.  

 

BUT - some fans think its all over - that we''re safe -whoopee!  Well I''ve got news folks - tthere is still a third of a season to go and alot of points at stake.

 

Thank goodness we have such an astute manager that he manages to keep the team playing consistently and playing in the present.

 

You  out there  who think we are safe -  should know that football is as funny game and it is still all to play for.    At the start of the season there were lots of complaints that we were''nt good enough - nearly every player in the squad has been subjected to insults and slagging off at some point on here - even up to this week with AW.  There is even one poster who has as a signature a slur on one of our most successful players! 

 

Now we are being successful all of a sudden everything in the garden is rosy and some of the same people who were so negative at the start of the season are now saying "we must be safe now" (you know who you are).    To those people we''ve all of a sudden we''ve turned from no hopers to a successful premiership club.   

 

The truth is that today we are doing well.   This is the only thing that matters.  And we should enjoy that.    It doesn''t mean we are going to do well tomorrow or even next Saturday - it means we are successful today.   The two comments I have put at the top shows that there are some realists out there - people who recognise that you are only as successful as your last match - and I am sure this is what the manager and players think too. 

 

You have to be in the now.   If more fans could appreciate this, we would be a much happier bunch.  

 

Perhaps we don''t want to be happy??     Perhaps we want to be able to shout and scream abuse at our players and run them down on forums like this  (even ones that are doing well).   Maybe alot of us  have to have an  outlet where we can  let off steam.  

 

But, I suppose as long as the manager and team are realistic and play each match as it comes, then it doesn''t matter what fans say/do/think.  But there is part of me that thinks - wow, if more of the fans could buy into the same ethos - it could not only help the atomosphere at matches, but it could change peoples lives..................................

 

We are where we are today and shouldn''t live in the past - where we slag off everyone because we think they''re not good enough.   But we shouldn''t live in the future - where we are safe - because we don''t know that.   

 

As I quoted at the beginning    "one game at a time"  "live in the here and now".    

 

It works you know - ask PL.

 

 

[/quote]I''d say this thread has to be a joke if it wasnt the fact the OP has clearly put a lot of time and emotion into it! There is such a thing as safety - May 13th if we''re 17th or above, we''re safe. Sorry was that stating the obvious? Well thats exactly what you''ve done in a lot more words.Don''t preach something no-ones argued with in the first place, its why you get into pointless arguments on here.

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Pointless arguments?  

 

My argument is that the same people who were so flipping negative at the start of the season - having us relegated practically before a ball was kicked - against all the evidence based on two years of building and success - are now coming up with "we must be safe now"  "I have no doubt we are staying up now" - to quote two I saw yesterday.    All of a sudden they are saying its done and dusted.

 

As for the "eternal optimistic rubbish" I spouted at the start of the season - that is just people who didn''t bother to read my posts properly.  I simply said then and I say now -  see what is happening now.    It wasn''t about us winning every game.   It wasn''t about losing every game.   It was trying to get people to buy in to the ethos that is being showed to us - if we want to see it - and that is a life message as far as I am concerned, not just a football message.    

 

The Brian Clough school of management of which  Paul Lambert is part of through Martin O''Neill,   showed a way of doing things based on a  positive outlook - and concentrating on the present - which is a winning formula.      It removes all the mental baggage that goes along with playing football - worrying about relegation, lack of finance, deficiencies of technique etc etc.      It boils down to living in the here and now.

 

I don''t much care if you don''t agree with me or think I am preaching at you,  I simply want people to recognise what it is that is making this club successful - and not wanting to get too far ahead of ourselves.

 

Unrealistic expectations are what cause alot of the problems at football clubs.   Whether you thought it was doom and gloom at the beginning of the season or whether you think that we are now going to finish 7th or higher,  the team have to play in the present.   I think it would be helpful if fans at matches could do that as well.     The pressures put on players at home matches by unrealistic expectations - whether it is expecting to win or expecting to lose - are what makes players perform better away from home.   Ideally us fans should be non judgemental and just get behind the team and stay in the present.

 

  

 

 

 

 

  

 

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I dont disagree with your overall point, its just the long winded way you''ve gone about it. You wont stop the boos at games, and a lot of the time its the taking each game as it comes that makes them boo. There has been poor play that ive been frustrated with and, if it wasnt against what i believe as acceptable behaviour, i would be booing. That isnt because we''re in this lofty position and i expect to win every match etc, but simpy that im frustrated with a particular half or passage of play.No matter how you approach the season as a fan, you still go through the emotions and are entitled to do so as you please. You cant tell people how to improve themselves which was the ''preaching'' i was talking about. Im happy with how ive grown up looking at the game and supporting city and will carry on doing so.

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Of course, on the face of it, a lot of what you say is true, LDC . If you like, then, yes, a lot of it IS stating the obvious.

 

The problem is, and where, in the real , wider world, the power of your argument falls down , that football is not conducted in a rational, logical manner. It inflames passions.  It encourages bias. People tend to see things in terms of black and white. It''s one of the reasons why football can never and will never be run as a "business" in the commonly accepted meaning of the word.

 

Three years ago, if a product that we used (eg a washing powder, a car, or  a bank,) had as underperformed as the product "Norwich City FC" we used, then we''d have switched brands of washing powder, changed to another make of car, or moved our bank account elsewhere. Under those "rules", as NCFC fans, we''d have got fed up and all gone off and bought season tickets at Ipswich Town , Peterborough United, or even Spurs.

 

But, as I say, football is not like that. It''s unique. We stayed loyal, when all the logical evidence suggested we should not. So do not be surprised if football fans talk in hyperbole, either "positive " or "negative". To that extent, you are right; people should not get too far ahead of themselves .  But  the same guys who said "we are safe" yesterday evening will probably suggest we''re on the slippery slope to relegation if we get thumped by Chelsea next Saturday. It''s just how football fans are. You''ll never change them !!

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What you say is true Eric, and I am probably barking up the wrong tree, but  I do feel there is a deeper message - if people want to see it. 

 

I played park football when I was younger and once joined a team that used to make me laugh.  That team would get together every Sunday and they would argue with each other from beginning to end of matches.   It really was laughable.   It has stuck with me because it struck me then as it strikes me now - some people are only happy when they are having a go at something.   So a player does something wrong on a pitch.  What do fans do?   They moan and complain.   A player appears not to be trying or makes a misjudgement.  What do fans do they have a go.   It''s the nature of football supporting.  

 

But I believe it goes deeper than that.   We are trained as supporters to behave in a certain way.   I remember the late 80''s when the fans had to learn to accept the style of play we had then  - a patient, passing, possesion kind of football that was a bit of a revelation and was ultimately successful.  

 

I think that alot of our fans have yet to buy in to the way the team is being run now.   If we support what PL is doing, trying to bring young players on, give them confidence etc - what good does it do if fans spoil that by getting on players backs?    I think they do it because thats how they have always done it.   What is wrong with adapting your support to what is actually happening at a club - buying in to the process that is going on.  I think it can be done but there is a strong element of media hype to get through, not to mention over reliance on stats (too much computer stuff going on imo) and too much of "its how we''ve always done it".  We''ve got a great fan base - terrific - but there are issues.

 

No one can deny the waives of negativity that were on here at the beginning of the season - the lead up to the Blackburn game was farcical - built up out of all proportion.     The constant player dismantling, the doom and gloom predictions.    Ok, you will always get those - but if PL has done anything it is give us something to think about - the main question to work out is - why is he so successful?     I think the answers are clear and are a good indicator for all of us - not just in football........there I go preaching again - maybe I missed my vocation.....

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

What you say is true Eric, and I am probably barking up the wrong tree, but  I do feel there is a deeper message - if people want to see it. 

 

I played park football when I was younger and once joined a team that used to make me laugh.  That team would get together every Sunday and they would argue with each other from beginning to end of matches.   It really was laughable.   It has stuck with me because it struck me then as it strikes me now - some people are only happy when they are having a go at something.   So a player does something wrong on a pitch.  What do fans do?   They moan and complain.   A player appears not to be trying or makes a misjudgement.  What do fans do they have a go.   It''s the nature of football supporting.  

 

But I believe it goes deeper than that.   We are trained as supporters to behave in a certain way.   I remember the late 80''s when the fans had to learn to accept the style of play we had then  - a patient, passing, possesion kind of football that was a bit of a revelation and was ultimately successful.  

 

I think that alot of our fans have yet to buy in to the way the team is being run now.   If we support what PL is doing, trying to bring young players on, give them confidence etc - what good does it do if fans spoil that by getting on players backs?    I think they do it because thats how they have always done it.   What is wrong with adapting your support to what is actually happening at a club - buying in to the process that is going on.  I think it can be done but there is a strong element of media hype to get through, not to mention over reliance on stats (too much computer stuff going on imo) and too much of "its how we''ve always done it".  We''ve got a great fan base - terrific - but there are issues.

 

No one can deny the waives of negativity that were on here at the beginning of the season - the lead up to the Blackburn game was farcical - built up out of all proportion.     The constant player dismantling, the doom and gloom predictions.    Ok, you will always get those - but if PL has done anything it is give us something to think about - the main question to work out is - why is he so successful?     I think the answers are clear and are a good indicator for all of us - not just in football........there I go preaching again - maybe I missed my vocation.....

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]?? How was it farcical? And the predictions were all for a win bar the usual couple saying they had a ''bad feeling''. As for general waives of negativity - when arent there any? And actually i dont remember the ''waives'' of it at all..

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The build up to the Blackburn game was laughable  - posts predicting relegation if we didn''t win - a  "must win"  and  portents of doom and gloom if we lost  - it made for a "tense" atomosphere - and probably didn''t help the players.     

 

People are still failing to buy into the PL revolution.  He has worked wonders with all the players - yet still even up to last week we were getting anti-player posts - one by someone who even slates a player in the form of his user name  (W=L2 = ridiculous).   It takes all sorts to be on a discussion forum, my opinion is that there are still alot of people who want to put players down.  It just shows they don''t take what is happening at the club seriously - they would rather have their own little meaningless tirades at players - even though actually the squad - as a whole is doing rather well.

 

 

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LDC people are saying were ''saf''e because thats what they (and I) genuinely think, they obviously don''t mean were mathematically safe whatever, or its 100% guaranteed.

But were in 9th, we have played well a lot of the time, but have also managed to keep ourselves in games with great last ditch defending, and pulled ourselves back into games. We''ve also won points when we perhaps didn''t deserve to. In my mind we are staying up, i''m fully aware something could go terribly wrong, but I have enough faith in the team and what they have done this season to know that its very unlikely to go that badly wrong. We could still end up only just avoiding relegation, or we could end up finishing in mid table.

As for people slating players, there are obvious problems in individual games with some players and ignoring the fact we are a mid table team (currently) and no player is perfect, people want everyone to perform well all the time. For me as long as you have good reasons, its perfectly acceptable to say so and so was rubbish, or whatever.

I''m getting fed up with all these generalisations, and over reactions to things. You are a person who likes to back up their opinion, we''ve had a couple of quite long debates on here. But you as well as a few others still resort to that kind of post every now and then, blowing things out of proportion. How many people, seriously are genuinely disappointed, not happy, think a player is rubbish, wants something to change? I''m 99% sure than every single Norwich fan is pretty happy with our current situation.

And this whole ''take one game at a time'' attitude, well yes we only play one game at a time, but what on earth is wrong with looking at the bigger picture? If I want to look at the remaining fixtures, work out where I think we will pick up points from, then I can do that. In fact I have done that, and think we can finish on 51 points, I don''t expect us too, but its not that unrealistic.

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So let me get this straight. The guy who was moaning about people predicting we would lose at home to Arsenal for being overly negative is now moaning about people who think we are safe (or more likely will be safe). You''re an odd one LDC [;)]

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]So let me get this straight. The guy who was moaning about people predicting we would lose at home to Arsenal for being overly negative is now moaning about people who think we are safe (or more likely will be safe). You''re an odd one LDC [;)]
[/quote]

 

Yes, I very probably am an odd one. 

 However, if Swansea have a fantastic home record and have now beaten Arsenal at home - why should that not have been a sensible aim for us?   

Also, if we are not yet safe - and we are not yet safe, should not realism say that we should focus on each match until we are safe.  

I have been so impressed with the mindset of the team and manager over the last two and a half seasons.  The way it has been achieved is through the positive but realistic mindset.   Play the match and not the season.  And its more than that.  Its staying in the present -  whatever is happening in the match.  Thats how we manage to compete even at the highest level.  We can appear not to be the better team yet still win - as yesterday (arguably) .

 

Thats why its better to just think we are doing well, lets see if we can carry it on to the next game.   No need to even think about relegation or safety - as there was no need to panic at the beginning of the season (all the histrionics about our players not being good enough) and there is no need to think about safety now. 

 

 

The title of the thread was my attempt to say that safety is an issue that is irrelevant.   Ok, we want to stay in the prem - but we won''t do it by being negative.   But - even if we stay up -we will only be "unsafe" again afew weeks later when the new season starts.    I for one don''t want to spend every season worrying about relegation and wondering if we''re going to be safe.  

 

The positive mindset suggests that we should  not worry about the dreaded "r" word and simply enjoy the positivity shown by the team and manager.

 

Safety should not be an issue - the issue should be how the team goes about its business - and for the last two and a half years they have been  consistently successful.   The safety issue is irrelevant. 

 

 

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We are safe, just as Man City had won the game when they scored the fifth goal against usNow here''s a suggestionWe are 8 points off fifth place, lets aim for that and stop all this ''end of the world is nigh'' stuff, because if some on here were to ask the fans of the bottom four clubs a) what their hopes areavoiding relegation - obviouslyb) what their expectations are overhauling Norwich - I doubt you''ll find any that believe that''s a realistic possibility

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