Is this the best Norwich City side ever?

[Panic 0]

The other day, me and my dad started talking about how well Norwich are doing; and I reminded him that, as I am only 20, this is the best Norwich City side I have ever seen.

We then quickly got into an argument about who was better: the Norwich City side of his generation, i.e the early 1990s (third in the Premier League, with Goss, Sutton et al.) or the current one (with it''s fabulous football and success in a Premier League which is much more different today than it was back then).

Obviously I argued for today''s NCFC but my dad was certain that the Norwich of the early 90s (and late 80s) was better; with me trying to explain how modern football is so much different etc...

However, as someone who never lived through that ''golden era'', I can''t really have a say, so , I must ask, is this really the best Norwich side ever?

[Hardhouse44 261]

No

[Panic 0]

Ugh...that should be *or* the "one of" the early 1990s''.

[Gingerpele 0]

Its not easy to compare past and present teams because of the difference in football nowadays. But you would have to say this can''t be the best side ever, as they haven''t really done anything other than win promotion and get some great results in the premiership.

But is a ''budget'' team under a young manager placed 9th in the premiership after 21 games as big an achievement as 3rd in 93? Or the Milk cup winning side?

[Panic 0]

Well I messed that up. Disregard that last message.

Also Hardhouse44, do explain your reasons. I''d like to know what you think!

[Dick of PH Rag 0]

Late 80''s and early 90''s teams are still the best Norwich City teams ever.Despite how far we have come over the last two years, we are a long way off matching the football of those teams.

[Panic 0]

I do understand how good that early 90s team was, in fact we were very unlucky to hit our peak just before the money started pouring into English football (and the extra Champions League places that went with it).

I guess it is difficult to compare one era''s team with another''s.

[kick it off 1,948]

I was only 7 during the 1993 season, but I was there and have a vivid memory of being in the stand watching Gossy notch up the equaliser to knock out the mighty Bayern Munich.

That team had some fantastic players. Ruel Fox, Gossy, Crook, Culverhouse, Dave Philips, Mark Robins'' one good season, Efan Ekoku, Chrissy Sutton.

We had some not so great ones too though - Rob Newman, Lee Power,

But I doubt I will see a better team in my lifetime. The current team is great, and play lovely football - it''s great to see us doing so well. Yes football is different now, but we were still little old norwich back then, with a team made of other people''s rejects and reserve players and what that side achieved was sensational.

Yes we''ve achieved a lot, but we won''t replicate beating Bayern, or a trip to the San Siro where we only lost 1-0, despite having half our starting XI suspended or injured. No comparison for me - the heroes of the early 90s win all day long.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Dick of PH Rag"]Late 80''s and early 90''s teams are still the best Norwich City teams ever.

Despite how far we have come over the last two years, we are a long way off matching the football of those teams.

 

Exactly!

 

In the present circumstances, with the debts and where we were just 2 seasons ago, we''re doing wonderful but we aren''t at the levels seen in the 1986-93 era!

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

I think that it is hard to compare two different eras, if we stay up then I would put that achievment on a par with those of the ealy nineties team for the simple reason that back then we were more able to compete with the big teams, football finances have moved on so much since then. For me the main similarity between the two teams is just that we were/are a team.... 

[lake district canary 0]

The achievement of this team over the last two and a half seasons  is arguably the best achievement as a team - given all the circumstances.  But the best team was undoubtedly the late 80''s early 90''s.   Stringer''s cultivated passing and keeping possession football (we hardly ever gave the ball away) and Walker''s more direct football was simply terrific - even though we were a little short of that extra tiny bit of class to win something.  

 

If  Lambert keeps us improving in the prem and we win a cup, that would clinch it for this team.   The team in the 90''s evolved over a period of years. Lets give this team time to evolve and see where it gets us!  

 

 

[a1canary 0]

The op might be interested to see recent post along similar lines:

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/2659152/ShowPost.aspx

[AJ 1,218]

Football has changed a lot since then, but I''d say the current side is by far the best we''ve had in recent years. Not so much team full of amazing individuals, but a very good, hard working unit. And that''s why I think we''re doing so much better this time around.

[i,coopius 0]

the 92/93 team was the 1st year i had a season ticket and i absolutely love that side, the first year i can place memories to supporting norwich was when we won the milk cup, and the wonder of a nine year old on a trip to wembley.  I have no doubt that taken in the perspective of football as a whole, this side would, maybe, not even make the best 5 ever teams: and the achievement of the double promotion and currently ninth, though great, certainly doesn''t match all those years of (non)european qualification followed by the 3rd place, and the semi-finals, however this current team would most definitely beat any other Norwich side in the past due to the change in football over the last 5 to 10 years so i suppose it depends on the question you are asking.technically this is the best ever norwich side,but thenlso it isn''t.

[a1canary 0]

You and me both coopious re that team - we''re the same age. All the more surprising then that you can say the current team would "definitely" beat the 92 team. No way anyone can say that. Or that the current one is technically superior. I was amused by the online BBC commentary yesterday which said Surman''s goal was out of the Jeremy Goss school of volleys so was very excited to see it on MoTD. Hmmm. Good hit, no question, but if it was from said school, it was kindergarten stuff! No-one comes close to that sort of technique in the current side. Wes has Crook''s vision and more ability on the ball, Ekoku and Sutton were a match for Jackson and Holt, Fox was easily a match for our current wide men. The differences today are that the squad is much bigger and is also much younger. If this team stays together (big if) we don''t yet know what it could achieve.

I do think with Cully as coach, this team is very much the spiritual successor to the 92 team. We play a different system to most, similar to what we did 92, both sides are very attacking and tended to concede a few. Will anyone ever finish 3rd in the PL again with a negative goal difference. Will we go through the season without keeping a clean sheet? We already have the record! You have to think if they could play each other today it would end 5 - 5 !

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

It is only a matter of opinion. But for me, once you''ve made allowances for improved fitness now as compared to 1992-1993, I can''t think of one player from the current side who would obviously get in a combined team. Perhaps one of the midfielders head of Megson/Goss or the underrated Phillips. Gunn and the whole of that defence were markedly better. Fox streets ahead of any winger we have now. Ditto Crook as a passer. Sutton and Ekoku/Robins better than any combination of Holt/Morison/Jackson, although one might just consider one of Holt or Morison to play alongside Sutton. But I doubt it.

[ZLF 271]

No - this is not the best team City have had, but it has the chance to be in the top 5  come the season end.

 

This is our 22nd season and on only 5 occassions have we finished in the top half of the table in the top flight (the same no. of times that we have been relegated and we have finished 20th or lower 6 times!) - 75/76 (10th), then an astonishing 3 times in 4 seasons in 87 (5th), 89 (4th) & 90 (10th) before the 92-93 season heights of 3rd.

 

Those sides, effectively 3 different teams,  were astonishing in their own rights;  92-93 hit the heights but the 87-90 version was outstandingly consistent.   All three are currently better than the current one - however this team is rapidly carving its only place in the clubs history books - finish in the top half and I would place them our third best team.

 

As for the argument that its harder now, the top teams have always spent more money than anyone else - its just the money is increasingly concentrated in the hands of fewer now because of how prize money (champ league, sky) is allocated.  We had no money then and we have no money now.   All our successful teams were built by strong managers able to take lower league hungry players and create a fomidable team spirit.

So - for me;  the third best team I can recall watching, prob the 4th best at the mo,  but just behind those two amazing sides from the late 80s early 90s.

       

[ZLF 271]

Good approach Purple - and I would agree;  same with the defenders,  butterworth, polly, culverhouse etc my best ever taken from those sides I mention would get in first - including the likes of Macdougall up front.  

 

This IS a great city side - and a top half finish will elevate them again.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Those who have said that it''s nigh on impossible to compare teams/players from different eras are dead right. It'' the same as those who ask "who was better; Stanley Matthews, George Best, or Ryan Giggs ?" will never get a straight answer.

 

It''s fun to debate though. From my perspective, in terms of results, it''s hard to bet against the early 90''s Walker team, and at times they were a joy to watch, though as some have said, a little short on class to actually win anything.  But, it''s easy to forget that the kind of money in the game in those days was piddling compared to now. The Arsenals Chelseas, Man Citys of this world were really also- rans then . Manyoo did not have the sort of financial clout that they do now . It''s hard to see this current team seriously mixing it on equal (ish) terms with them, let alone Bayern Munich and Inter Milan on a regular basis these days .

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Good approach Purple - and I would agree;  same with the defenders,  butterworth, polly, culverhouse etc my best ever taken from those sides I mention would get in first - including the likes of Macdougall up front.  

 

This IS a great city side - and a top half finish will elevate them again.

[/quote]

 

Indeed, Zipper. Two of that side (Culverhouse and Bowen) would undoubtedly be in my all-time team, and Crook, Fox and Sutton would either be in it or on the bench. No-one in the current squad would get close. That is not to denigrate their achievements. Just a clear-eyed assessment.

[ZLF 271]

The difference is just HOW unequal the cash is - prize funding ensures the rich get richer and personal benefactors have reached statospheric proportions.

 

However even pre sky the rich won out with the best teams,  all having spent amongst the most to secure success. 

 

The difference between now and then is that it was possible to break into the top 3 because you could find someone to match their financial clout;  finding someone to match the manure, chelsea or citeh backers is nigh on impossible now.    The cash was more evenly distrubuted and allowed the possibility of good teams from smaller clubs to have successful seasons.

 

Look at the current top 7, every single one of them has spend hundreds of millions over recent seasons to get where they are, including the exciting spurs.     On that basis I would say a city team finishing there will be the equivalent of our finishing third in 93...  

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="kick it off"]I was only 7 during the 1993 season, but I was there and have a vivid memory of being in the stand watching Gossy notch up the equaliser to knock out the mighty Bayern Munich. That team had some fantastic players. Ruel Fox, Gossy, Crook, Culverhouse, Dave Philips, Mark Robins'' one good season, Efan Ekoku, Chrissy Sutton. We had some not so great ones too though - Rob Newman, Lee Power, But I doubt I will see a better team in my lifetime. The current team is great, and play lovely football - it''s great to see us doing so well. Yes football is different now, but we were still little old norwich back then, with a team made of other people''s rejects and reserve players and what that side achieved was sensational. Yes we''ve achieved a lot, but we won''t replicate beating Bayern, or a trip to the San Siro where we only lost 1-0, despite having half our starting XI suspended or injured. No comparison for me - the heroes of the early 90s win all day long.[/quote]....my memory tells me all the ians-crook,butterworth,culverhouse- were suspended for that match.

[William Darby 0]

A fully fit Ian Crook at his peak would make it into our present first XI easily  imo, even if he still ploughed through 20 Silk Cut each day.

[Boris 56]

We have great team 88-93 but always problem was central deffenders after Linighan quit to Arsenal.Butterworth was half decent but Blades Polston etc all who come after Linighan was average at best.

At all we was not sollid in deffence and I remember many shocking games Byran Gunn against SPurs 4-0 away Lineker scored always many against us.

Blackuburn killed us 7-1 also we finished top3 with negative gd.

middf was extremly good during all this years also in attack we always have big treat Drinkel,Fleck,Sutton,Ekoku,Robins....

I belive we have the very bad luck from 5 years english ban after Brussel tragedy and If im not wrong we deserved to play 3 times in Europe during this 3 years.

Still this team have chanse to become our best especialy after we received even more money with next year again be in top lig so fingers crossed we to spend money on right players and ofcourse we to not loose Lambert .

[ZLF 271]

Trying to recall the 75-76 squad and how they might compare.   I think the likes of Keelan, MacDougall Machin, Peters, Boyer would all have claims to have a place in our current squad/team?

[William Darby 0]

I''m sure some of the more mature posters regard Keelan as the all time best keeper.

[Ernie 0]

[quote user="The Jewish Cowboy"]I''m sure some of the more mature posters regard Keelan as the all time best keeper.
[/quote]

The cat without any doubt was the best Norwich City Keeper I have ever seen and by a country mile.  Woods, Green, Gunn were all excellent keepers but the only reason Keelan wasn''t Englands no 1 was a certain Shilton and Clemence.  Reeves, Mcdougal, Sutton, Drinkell, Fleck, Crook, Fox, Neighbour, Peters, Suggett, Eddie, Belleamy, Bowen,Watson, Bruce, Ryan, Sullivan, Bowyer, Phelan, Paddon to name but a few were all fantasic players in their time (and I''m sure I have missed out many others).  But given time maybe some of our current crop may be talked about in the same vein.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="The Jewish Cowboy"]I''m sure some of the more mature posters regard Keelan as the all time best keeper.[/quote]Yes, almost as good as Nethercott.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="Panic"]

However, as someone who never lived through that ''golden era'', I can''t really have a say, so , I must ask, is this really the best Norwich side ever?[/quote]

Not yet but we are getting close.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I agree with Zipper''s assessment but would add that our current position is more to do with potentially our greatest ever manager and an excellent set up.