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YankeeCanary

Norwich & Premiership-Not In The Same Sentence Please

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Okay, we won. Some will say that''s the main thing. It''s only one game and we set ourselves up to fight another day. Others will say it''s about time we had a little luck. One comment was that our players appeared to be nervous even in the warmup. A good few posters have commented on how poor we were. Let me be clear. We were shockingly poor. Put the score to one side - I have seen teams three divisions lower put on a better display of football than what emanated from Norwich City today. With performances like that we do not belong in the Premiership, plain and simple. I have just watched this game three times to make sure I wasn''t mistaken - I was not! The football gods must have decided to gift Fleming and Doherty a couple of goals as an ironic offset to their woeful inadequacy as central defenders. On today''s performance they are analogous to taking two cart horses to Epsom hoping to win the Derby. They gifted so many chances to West Brom ( that were not converted ) that we could have scored a couple of more ourselves and still lost by three goals. I just could not believe what was going on all over the pitch. Basic organisation for our team was virtually nonexistent. We did not represent a Premiership team in any facet of tackling, positional play, thinking creatively, seeking space off the ball. Let''s just take tackling as an example. Our players visibly appeared late thinking about it, when the thought did occur we were slow moving to tackle, and when we actually did arrive we did not appear committed. Of course there were exceptions, but generally this was the pattern of our play. I have watched a lot of different Premiership games this season and I honestly have not seen another team, with as much continued frequency, hoof the ball straight up in the air in the defensive zone, having it fall straight back to the ground in the same area of danger. So if I''m such a Canary fan, why do I dwell on these negatives when we won the game? I''ll tell you why. Like every other City fan, I hope for our survival this season but, even more importantly, I even more fervently desire for long-term progress. The lack of basic field organisation and absence of basic skill application is a serious concern because, if anything, it''s been a growing problem in the second half of the season and, therefore, there is no reason to believe, if unchecked, it won''t carry straight over into next season regardless of which division we find ourselves in. If I were in charge at Carrow Road I would already be convening a meeting in the War Room to see what CONCRETE steps could be taken for the foreseeable future to draft in top quality coaching as if our lives depended upon it. You wonderful people who are supporting the team week in and week out deserve nothing less.       

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Good post although I feel it may come in for some stick!! I agree that we were very poor yesterday and for most of the match were inferior to arguably the worst team in the Premiership. The defence is the main worry for me as we are now creating and scoring goals but the amount we concede is shocking. I would have thought a team with a manager who was a tough tackling defender would also have a ship-shape defence but with our back four this is clearly not the case. This is what our ''coaches'' have to address before our next game. For gods sake give Jason Shackell a chance. He is going to get fed up before long and leave for a pittance and I for one can smell another Danny Mills situation.

 

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Thoroughly agree Yankee and a reply to a previous post I highlighted my concern to the fact that West Brom virtually outplayed us and that is a worry of mine as they seem quite capable of overhauling the three points and yet everyone is talking of them of being a certainty of relegation.  If so does that also put us in that category.  The thing that worries me also is that if ordinary fans can see the shortcomings then why can''t the management and coaching staff.  Yes I am thrilled with the three points and hope we can pull of the great escape but energy and spirit wont do that on their own.

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I think the main reason behind the shambolic lack of shape today was the formation - 433 with new players in and nobody really seemed to know who was meant to cover who, meaning we were overun in midfield at times.

Having seen a 442 from more or less the same group of players at Goodison on Weds night we were compact tight and defended very well as a unit.

Worty gambled playing Ashton, McKenzie and Hucks yesterday and it did''nt work as 433, and only works as 442 when we''re chasing the game and can play Hucks in left midfield.

The lesson of this week HAS to be 442 with Hucks and Ashton up front - I believe that then (and with some luck still) we can still stay up.

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I agree that 4-3-3 didn''t work, and with the general drift of improving the coaching. However, the most significant event of the game, as far as the health of NCFC is concerned, was that when Francis scored, he and the rest of the players ran to the bench and embraced Worthy and the coaches. That was really good to see. What we must NOT do is lose that, but build on it.

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[quote]I think the main reason behind the shambolic lack of shape today was the formation - 433 with new players in and nobody really seemed to know who was meant to cover who, meaning we were overun in midf...[/quote]

I cant believe that we started the most important game so far this season with a four-three-three. We buy a big striker, then leave him on his own !

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[quote]Okay, we won. Some will say that''s the main thing. It''s only one game and we set ourselves up to fight another day. Others will say it''s about time we had a little luck. One comment was that our playe...[/quote]

Yankee: Whilst I''ll agree we were poor yesterday, there have been quite a few games this season, when we have looked a premiership side....and lost!.

Apart from Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelski (Oh, for a 130 million pound side!) we haven''t been outplayed by anyone!.

With so much at stake yesterday, it was no wonder that the team was tense, and yes, they stuttered.

You miss the fact that this is our first year back for 9 years, we''re learning to adjust to the pace of this division, and I think we have the best attitude in the premier division.

This has been achieved on a tight budget by the manager, coaches, team and board. There is a ''togetherness'' which is the envy of all other clubs.

You may well be gifted in the use of the written word, but I thank the good spirits you''re not in control of our team!.

I still believe City will survive, and next year with more cash at our disposal, who knows what will happen?

But I do know, that after our vital win yesterday, we don''t need defeatist and over critical post like yours, undermining that victory.

I guess what I''m really trying to say to you is: Go to hell pal!.

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I''m with you on this one Wiz, I think we should keep a list of all the bleating naysayers who rubbish the team at every turn. Eighteen months ago we were going into a new season with Iwan, Zema and David Nielsen as a strike force. Today we have just spent 3 mill on a new striker we''ve got internationals peppered around the pitch and more support at FCR than we''ve had for a generation. In other words we''ve come a long way in a very short time, it aint perfect and there''s going to be hiccups along the way. What we don''t need is criticism of every pass, tackle or tactic of every game, it''s not helpful and only serves to undermine all the good that''s going on.

Based on the money we''ve got, where we''ve come from and what we''re up against from I think all concerned are doing a bloody marvelous job

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All along Yankee I have been posting threads in a similar vein, and I certainly agree with your interpretation of this game, and many others have similar faults. All of the problems are attributed to organisation, and in my opinion strength and fitness.

We are said to be a fit side, fitness, maybe, in terms of fulfilling a routine that is conducive to keeping the trainees happy with the regime.

Not the way ,I''m afraid. I wrote last year of the luck that we enjoyed defensively, and i ca''nt retract this statement.  It is also not an accident that so many players are down with niggling injuries. These are not fitness problems, they are strength problems.

There has to be a greater concentration on  hard demanding work which promotes strength.  This wo''nt go down well with the modernists, the out flow from the universities of today.

Ron Saunders had a magic way of getting men strong as well as fit for the game even though in his day there was a strong drinking culture among players.

I''ve watched Mousehold Heath training, done with him under his watchfull eye.  Where the participants had to run up the embankments with the equivalent of tweve stones on their backs.  Most of them, until they got fit, were physically sick after his training sessions, Ron Saunders and all the training staff had to go through the same regime, they were all of them, fit and strong.

The old addage say''s that physical fitness breeds mental alertness and the ability to concentrate. Watching the players this season and last, in that respect they are being let down by the coaching staff, and it tells me that in terms of that addage our boys are a long way from meeting those requirements.  I dearly wa''nt them to stay up, along with all of you people out there, but they wo''nt, if the engine room at Colney does''nt improve, and get their act together. I do''nt know if you have all noticed that the same faults are inherrant in the junior sides as well. OTBC!!!!!!!

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My dear Wizard, what a parting shot you offer, and on a Sunday too! I realize, from past communications, that when I write something that is 500 words or more you become confused. More intelligent people will have grasped the essence of my constructive criticism, namely, that we cannot allow the glaring weakness I identify to carry forward to next season. We simply cannot. On the positive front, as it relates to your good self, I could not help but gloat at your words:

"This has been achieved on a tight budget by the manager, coaches, team AND BOARD. There is a ''togetherness'' which is the envy of all other clubs".

If I were a lesser man I might indulge myself and call you a hypocrite given your attitude toward the Board that began at the end of last August. Fortunately, I''m not. Therefore, I take full credit for helping to convert you to the more positive person you are today, all done without hexes and bubbling cauldron''s I might add.

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The fact that Yankee says what he does doesn''t mean he should be subjected to a "I-told-you-so" if we do stay up. Fundamentally, he is right. We may not want to hear it, but he is accurate. And if we do stay up, it will be because of our fight, togetherness, self-belief and some luck will play a role. It will not be for our skill, positioning play, finishing or defensive quality.Throughout the entire season, many have said that we do seem to lack some pretty basic footballing facets to our team.We dont move off the ball well at all. This might be our greatest weakness. We''re still moving like we''re in the Championship. But if you don''t have the best players, you have to play well as a team and that means you must be able to have solid off the ball running. We don''t.Our defence does like to hoof it. Mostly, it''s because they are full-on scared out of their lives. Doherty, for all his solidity will ALWAYS kick the ball to touch even when another option is open for fear of screwing it up. It''s safe but only serves to continue a period of pressure on our team. Vicious cycle.We do not finish well. It was nice to see WBA do the same...it''s another team in the Prem who can''t seem to find that touch in front of goal.We do not tackle well. Yankee hit the nail on the head. We ball-watch. Our players are hunched down, 5 yards away, ready to attack....when in reality, all that is happening is that we''re providing the opposition time and space for him to pass through to someone else who, more often than not, has done some clever running to get into space. I think part of the reason we do well when we''re behind is that we get stuck in and we''re desperate. GET STUCK IN from the beginning lads.We don''t have good first touch control. This only exacerbates the issue of not moving well off the ball. Don''t move well off the ball and you have fewer passing options. Don''t control it well off the first touch and you''re under pressure immediately.The thing is that anyone, at any level playing football knows that when the above is accomplished, the game flows much more easily and the ultimate result is a Chelsea/United/Arsenal-like performance.All this is easier said than done...agreed. But what is MOST disturbing is that we are not seeing an improvement in these facets of our game. We MUST see improvement!The match yesterday was so cathartic -- don''t get me wrong -- when Francis scored I was almost in tears. But it also highlighted our need to see progress so we can be more in control of our own destiny when the games get tough.

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[quote]My dear Wizard, what a parting shot you offer, and on a Sunday too! I realize, from past communications, that when I write something that is 500 words or more you become confused. More intelligent peo...[/quote]

Yankee Canary: By just using the phrase If I was a lesser man I''d call you a hypocrite, you have implied I am!.

I care not a jot, and a pox be upon you sir for your mischief.

Search, through these posts (I seem to remember that you''re rather adept at that!) and you''ll see that I made a pledge for total support towards the team.

My support for the team has never been in question when they''ve played (The board certainly, the manager maybe) but the team never!.

And much as this revelation may bruise your ego, that''s not down to you or other posters influence.

The Board and the manager, by their actions, have influenced me, and I have already given credit to them for that.

Now as I was saying, go to hades.

In the friendliest possible way of course!.

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I seldom agree with your negative views and attitudes Yankee, but you have a point. The team were awful yesterday. WBA should feel very unlucky not to have won clearly, our defence was a shambles.

But yet again the courage and spirit of the lads shone through, it is awesome to see sometimes. Even if we go down at least at the end of the season the players can say the gave it everything.

 

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YC is spot on - it was comfortably the worst performance of the season yet some how, and I dont care how, we have mugged the baggies and escaped with a miraculous 3 points - a far better feeling at the final whistle yesterday than against boro I can tell you.

Shrops is right too, the system clearly didnt work and was NEVER going to work.  Anyone who has seen WBA over the last few games will realise that their threat was all down the flanks - Gera and Greening have been in excellent for, aided by good support from the full backs.  So what do we do?  commit tactical suicide by loading the central midfield area and leaving acres of space down the flanks for the baggies to run riot going forward - how we went in level and not 3 goals down is a miracle up there with the loaves and fishes.   It wasnt as if our 3 strikers were creating mush going forward - a couple of Ashton afforts apart we were non existant.  And we got worse after the break when we did go 4-4-2 ish but with another idiotic decision to stick Hux back on the left - no extra midfield cover and our most experienced forward wasted by having to start runs from our penalty box - how many players have an impact getting the ball 70yds from goal???   

What we must do is realise that we cannot be swamped in midfield again - we have to stick to 4-4-2 to give our at best poor, usually diabolical, defence SOME chance of keeping a clean sheet this side of Xmas.    Hux back up front with Ashon is a must (Leon again showed why he is only championship quality) and some changes in midfield.  Stuart looked OK despite being over run and would pair him with Francis in the middle of the park - Holt worked hard and had some impact but we need a better passer.   On the right Jonson comes back and on the left who knows, probably brennan unless he has to cover left back, if not McVeigh - best of a bad bunch for me.

OTBC

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I have to say this thread has all that I love and hate about this forum.We have a bunch of noters trying to argue for and against an argument that YankeeCanary has very eloquently put forward - love it. Then we have the snide personal jibes at the guy for saying what he sees - hate it.We aren''t all going to agree on the points raised in the forum, that is it''s beauty, but it wouldn''t hurt for us all to take of the green and yellow specs once in a while to digest someone else''s point of view.Yankee is right, City have lacked some of the basic things they will need to survive in this division. Organisation. Keeping the ball. Movement off the ball. And quite honestly the only way they will get those things is from input from the coaching staff.Look at the teams that have seen a change in fortunes this season and see what it is they''ve done to get that change in fortunes.Chelsea - ignore the fact that they have a squad full of class players for a moment. Mourinho''s first job when he came into the job was to get them organised. How many of you will remember looking at their early season results thinking "oh god, boring Arsenal all over again". Mourinho didn''t care, he wanted to make them bloody hard to beat, first and foremost. Once they''d got the defensive side of their game sorted out then he could turn to making them play attacking football. The stats don''t lie. They''ve only let in 8 (EIGHT) goals this season.Now look at a team at the other end of the table - Blackburn. The first thing Hughes did when he came in was to get them organised. Make them hard to beat first. Grind out the one-nil wins or nil-nil draws to get them up the table. It''s beginning to work for Rovers. They''ve just played their second games against Middlesbrough and Chelsea. First time round they lost 4-0 to both sides. This time round they''ve lost just 1-0 to both sides. He''s made them hard to beat.At the start of the season you could argue that City were difficult to beat. They were the new boys on the block. Nobody quite knew how to deal with them. Plus you could probably argue that they were playing in a reasonably organised fashion at the start.The second half of the season hasn''t been the same. Teams have worked out how to stop City - stifle Huckerby and you''re halfway there. Now the lack of organisation throughout the team is beginning to hurt. 3-0 to Villa in a poor game. 4-4 to Middlesborough thanks to the team showing character and Borough taking the foot off the gase. 3-2 against West Brom. They can''t continue to go out and concede 2 or 3 goals to other teams and hope "Canary spirit" is going to come to the rescue. It''s not Walker''s Norwich or Keegan''s Newcastle you''re watching here - the "you score 3 ''cos we can score 4 mentality".So give Yankee a break guys the truth often hurts. If you disagree then at least have the courtesy to give the guy a reasoned counter argument to what he said. I personally think he''s right and the coaching staff must be able to see it themselves. How many times did Neil Adams comment on Wednesday night about how deep City were defending? He can see it and he''s just an ex-player pundit. Why can''t Worthy?

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[quote]Thoroughly agree Yankee and a reply to a previous post I highlighted my concern to the fact that West Brom virtually outplayed us and that is a worry of mine as they seem quite capable of overhauling ...[/quote]

A few months back I wrote to Nigel Worthington suggesting that he would probably benefit by having one of his coaching staff sitting high up in the stands somewhere, so as to see what some of our players were actually doing on the pitch.  Yes as ordinary supporters we can see the players who regularly mark open spaces and do not pick up the runners, we can also see the players who continually follow the ball and don''t think to look at who is free in the box.

It would appear that our manager and coaching staff are confident they can see what is going on by staying close to the dugout.  I guess they do probably sit down a couple of days after the match and analyse the video highlights, but sadly those same players repeat those actions week in and week out.

I know the manager and coaching staff have done a great job in getting us back in the Premiership but I feel they are still tactically naive at the highest level.

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[quote]I have to say this thread has all that I love and hate about this forum.We have a bunch of noters trying to argue for and against an argument that YankeeCanary has very eloquently put forward - love i...[/quote]

I despair Morph!.

To compare us with Chelsea, what a joke my friend, no, you just cannot put aside the fact that they have class players, it won''t wash. Give Nigel 120 million, and then compare. I know City were bloody awful on Saturday, and I don''t need YC pointing out the blindingly obvious.

But for God''s sake we won!. Job done.

I am sickened by the ''perfection brigade'' who try to ruin my delight at a vital victory. City can and will play better, you wait and see. But will YC and his disciples apologise, hmm?.

YC and others have taken 6 months to come up with their rubbish, 6 bloody months!. Enlightened or what.

Posters I used to have the highest respect for, have now earned my utter contempt for jumping on his bandwagon. I support City, City won, without listening to your advice, rejoice in that.

We will play better and lose, the premiership is not a level playing field anyway, Nigel is learning, but sadly some of you are not!.

Your comparison with  Blackburn had me wetting myself with laughter. Their last 3 games has resulted in 3 straight defeats mate!. A one nil defeat is guess what? yes, that''s right, a defeat!. Old Sparkie, has made then very hard to beat alright!.

Old YC logic if ever I heard it.

I don''t want my rant to anger you too much Morph, but I''m pretty angry myself. And if, as a result of my rant, I lose your friendship on these boards, then so be it my friend.

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Yankee has posted very eloquently and made some sound points as have others who do not deserve bitter condemnation for that stifles good debate.

Whilst I rejoiced at 5pm on Saturday I too was frustrated by the simple things which we don''t sem to be able to do very well. Simple things which could keep us in this division with some ease: organisation, movement (who is making the runs?), passing, tackling , closing down, the list goes on.

These things are matters which every Premiership footballer should be able to do. What distinguishes the Chelseas and the Arsenals from us is that they add to those. The stars have the flair, the imagination, the pace, ability to dribble, the ability to beat men and get to the byline. Thats what they pay the big money for.

We don''t have that money so what we need to do is get those basics right- a qualification that every Premiership footballer should have. If or when we do that we can genuinely compete in this league. But we are making life much harder for ourselves by not doing them.

Last year the most frequent comment from observers about Norwich was that "they do the simple things very well". Well, we walked the championship last year, we now have better players and a stonger squad -  getting the basics right will keep us in this higher division.

How many more games will we win by being as poor as on Saturday? It doesn''t happen very often, just as overturning a three goal deficit happens once every blue moon.

Basics= survival.

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I''m with you Wiz - we can play like that for the rest of the season if we pick up 3 points every week!  Now is not the time for football purism.

Yes, we played badly on Saturday as a team, but look how many individuals under-performed.  That''s something that as a manager you simply can''t legislate for.  Green has played much much better, Fleming was awful, Doherty had a bad day at the office (due in no small part to Fleming''s performance alongside him) Charlton looked like he would rather be anywhere else but part of that defence, Francis was anonymous (maybe even missing) for much of the game, Ashton was off the pace and had lead in his boots and McKenzie - words fail me........however, we won.

That''s right - WE WON!  Be happy!

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Wiz, Yc and many others, me, included have been analysing matches played by our teams over many years. In my opinion the last one and a half seasons have had the same lack of organisation and lack of on the field leadership (except for Malkie) for that period of time. Without going deeper into the pros and cons now, because I have already made my opinions clear over many postings, and you will find that I am consistant in my thoughts concerning football matters, and how in my opinion the game should be played.

Nav man wrote thread containing some well thought out comments a couple of days ago in similar vein.

You Wiz and others, should not be sickened by the perfection brigade as you call them, for they are in fact only asking for the team to go out there and get the basics right. To want our team to perform like the well paid professionals that they are is not asking too much. Especially when it seems that good coaching might bring for us, and the players a solution, in the form of good football on the pitch.

Of course I am pleased that we won, however luckily. Some posters say that it is not good to write in the negative. As I''ve mentioned before it is only by recognising the negative aspects of our game and working on them collectively, that we shall improve.

All the great masters were on the whole, self critical and this aspect is what made them great in the end.  Self satifaction leads to downgrading and complacency. In players there should be an inward drive that they themselves are reaching for excellence and are prepared to put in whatever that takes.

Much is made of the wonderful support given by the followers and fans in spurring the boys on throughout the games.  They by their great efforts are entitled to see that the boys out there are of the same mind.

Remember, Wiz and others, that most of us are over the moon when the much needed victory is ours, and we will deserve the win especially, and only if we get the basics right.!!!!

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Sorry,for forgetting to add, Apologise for what? Expecting too much from the team, in getting the basics right?

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Quote  :  I''m with you Wiz - we can play like that for the rest of the season if we pick up 3 points every week!  Now is not the time for football purism.

 

Exactly.  Most of the season we have played well and not won.  Remember, points win prizes !!

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Wiz, no anger here mate. I''m as happy as the next City supporter that they won on Saturday. However, the coaching staff can''t continue to ignore the lack of onfield organisation and simple lack of basics. Team spirit and hard work will only get you so far.

If you offered me a 1-0 win for every match that remains this season I''d take it straight away. It would be more preferable to going 2 or 3 down and hoping to god our "team spirit" can conjure up something to get us back in the game.

And I was NOT comparing us to Chelsea even remotely. If you read what had been written you would note that I was trying to comment on what the coaching staff had done to improve those teams. They''ve got their teams organised. None of this headless chicken defending.

Just watch the way those teams hold two lines of four/five players across the defence and midfield. Plus, they don''t continue to drop off the opposition until they''re sitting in their goalkeepers laps.

Tumbleweed hit the nail on the head: "Simple things which could keep us in this division with some ease: organisation, movement (who is making the runs?), passing, tackling , closing down, the list goes on."

That''s not being perfectionist.

I''d also agree with Templeton when he said: "I''m with you Wiz - we can play like that for the rest of the season if we pick up 3 points every week! Now is not the time for football purism." I''ll take a messy win but I''d also like to think the team played with enough nowse each week to not need the messy win.

But City aren''t going to get away with performances like that every week. By all accounts West Brom could/should have scored a hatful on Saturday. They didn''t - obviously a Wiz hex worked for once.

Wouldn''t you rather watch City each week thinking "it''ll have to be a bloody well worked goal for team X to score today", instead of sitting wondering how many are they going to give away? Do any of you sit there honestly believing team X aren''t going to score today?

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I do agree that getting the result counts but I can also see that pointing out negatives is helpful.

The best time to look at your faults is when you are winning, if you are winning and can improve, the better chance you have of winning again.  In the same way, I feel that when you lose you should focus on what you have done well rather than what you have done wrong.

What I also want to point out is the midfield we started with.  Holt, Francis & Stuart.  I like these players for different reasons but I would imagine that no team in the PL would be the slightest bit worried about playing against that midfield!

I think both opposing views on this topic are right but sooner or later some of the concerns spoken about will have to be addressed but if we scrape in at 17th place by the end of the season, who cares how we manage it?

Lets face it, from a neutral point of view, City matches must be amongst the most entertaining in the Premier League.

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This is ridiculous, really, everyone that has attacked YC and his backers think about it for a moment.

Most of you agree that his points are concerns and we played badly.  Yet you choose to argue with him anyway.   Your only argument is attitude.  You have decided that YC is a negative poster because he points out some problems and you are a postivie poster because you are happy we won.

The fact is EVERYONE on here is happy that we won, so why the argument?   YC has some opinions on some basic footballing skills that he wanted to point out (that''s what this board is for).   I have been pointing out that our coaching must be awful for some weeks now as the same mistakes keep on happening week in week out and nothing seems to be done about them.  Finally some people have agreed, but they get accused of being negative.

Wiz I have always had a lot of repsect for you, but lately you baffle me.  I know that you and Yankee have your history, but it appears to me that whatever one of you posts the other will just say the oppostie just for the hell of it.  It''s like watching a teenager and a parent.   Your closing statement to YC in your first reply is just childish - I guess what I''m really trying to say to you is: Go to hell pal!.   What were you hoping to achieve with that?

Only days ago you were typing up the most negative post of the last few months (IMO) about lack of ambition from the board yet again in the transfer window  (3rd or 4th time you have dragged that one up).  You didn''t get attacked in this manner by any of us even though most of us thought it was a negative and pointless subject to yet again bring up.  However you fly straight in at the deep end when Yankee writes something that isn''t actually that negative and most important of all is actually TRUE and you know it!!!   I despair.

The team needs some proper organisation from someone and fast, we will not get many more wins or draws form the remaining fixtures with such woeful defending and bad midfield play.  The 4-3-3 was a bad choice considerng the players used  -Stuart not match fit and 34!! - Francis we all know comes in and out of games so not suited to a 3 man midfield - Holt sits too deep and doesn''t pass too well, people bang on about his aggressive play and harrasment of the oppo, but he only made 3 (THREE!) tackles in the match, what exactly else did he do???

4-4-2 is the way forward, Shackell has to be tried please, can''t wait for Helveg to come back, Jonson although not brilliant is still our best bet on the right, Huckerby has to play upfront with Ashton, Brennan or McVeigh on the left, Holt doesn''t cut the mustard and Stuart would be a better partner with Francis, Charlton back in the middle and McKenzie how many more times do we have to watch him run around like a headless chicken?

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Lets face it, from a neutral point of view, City matches must be amongst the most entertaining in the Premier League.

Absolutely right SC, that is just what a few of the people I work with up here in Cheshire have told me today - it''s just us canaries that suffer a nervous breakdown every week!!!

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