Only two good things, the 1 point and the defending

[smooth 114]

The defending by our defensive 4 was very good, last minute challenges all covering each other, goalkeeping superb and another point. Bodes well as mistakes have been learnt and we looked more assured, gutted for Ruddy not getting that clean sheet. The only time we did not close down is when drenthe shot and the defelction took it past.

 

But by god, we were poor and and made a poor everton team look good. Our midfield was absolutely out of the game and the system offered little creativity going forward, defensively I would even say they were leaving our back four exposed. Hoolahan was totally out of it today, didn''t know who to pick up when we had to defend and was often past by and attacking wise, sorry he is not doing enough at this level in that position.

 

It is a great point, last week I said the defence can thank our strikers for the points. But today our midfield can thank our defence and Ruddy for getting us a point. Psychologically we still couldn''t hang on, we had options to bring on and I felt that even at 60minutes we needed to make changes. Pilky should have come on for Surman and Hoolahan should have come off then with 30 mins to go with Bradley Johnson coming on. We tried to hang on today when it wasn''t working.

 

So best thing is that we have a game on Tuesday (against a hungry Wolves team after their result today), so it is is going to be tough but by god we need it to get ourselves sorted and put in a performance for 90 minutes. Glad Lambert looked jarr''d off when he returned to the bench to find out that Everton equalised, we had an opportunity against an under-performing Everton. Yes a valuable point, but by god we need to play better than that and I think again it showed that the spine of the team is needed right now. We needed a leader in the first half in the middle to shake us into gear, they were raining corners in on us.

 

We are in 9th and have reached 20 points, fantastic and I still think we can pick up a few more points before the new year. Fantastic but I am glad we play Wolves on Tuesday we need a performance on Tuesday night by every department in our team. But for me midfield needs to be changed Benno, Fox, Johnson, Pilky if we were to play a four man midfield or a five man midfield of Benno, Crofts, Fox, Johnson, Pilky.

 

So interesting to see what Lambert does at Molineaux, because our midfield system and personnel let us down today.

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

Why was wheeliebin brought on he is terrible, they were all over us a very good point in my eyes.

Maybe morison was brought off with tuesday in sight?

Also i hope holt dont get penalised for his ebow.

[PurpleCanary 6,371]

[quote user="smooth"]

The defending by our defensive 4 was very good, last minute challenges all covering each other, goalkeeping superb and another point. Bodes well as mistakes have been learnt and we looked more assured, gutted for Ruddy not getting that clean sheet. The only time we did not close down is when drenthe shot and the defelction took it past.

 

But by god, we were poor and and made a poor everton team look good. Our midfield was absolutely out of the game and the system offered little creativity going forward, defensively I would even say they were leaving our back four exposed. Hoolahan was totally out of it today, didn''t know who to pick up when we had to defend and was often past by and attacking wise, sorry he is not doing enough at this level in that position.

 

It is a great point, last week I said the defence can thank our strikers for the points. But today our midfield can thank our defence and Ruddy for getting us a point. Psychologically we still couldn''t hang on, we had options to bring on and I felt that even at 60minutes we needed to make changes. Pilky should have come on for Surman and Hoolahan should have come off then with 30 mins to go with Bradley Johnson coming on. We tried to hang on today when it wasn''t working.

 

So best thing is that we have a game on Tuesday (against a hungry Wolves team after their result today), so it is is going to be tough but by god we need it to get ourselves sorted and put in a performance for 90 minutes. Glad Lambert looked jarr''d off when he returned to the bench to find out that Everton equalised, we had an opportunity against an under-performing Everton. Yes a valuable point, but by god we need to play better than that and I think again it showed that the spine of the team is needed right now. We needed a leader in the first half in the middle to shake us into gear, they were raining corners in on us.

 

We are in 9th and have reached 20 points, fantastic and I still think we can pick up a few more points before the new year. Fantastic but I am glad we play Wolves on Tuesday we need a performance on Tuesday night by every department in our team. But for me midfield needs to be changed Benno, Fox, Johnson, Pilky if we were to play a four man midfield or a five man midfield of Benno, Crofts, Fox, Johnson, Pilky.

 

So interesting to see what Lambert does at Molineaux, because our midfield system and personnel let us down today.

[/quote]

 

I didn''t see the game, smooth, but it sounds like it was an example of the conundrum facing Lambert. That it is hard to drop either Holt or Morison, but if you play them together, and Hoolahan, then you will get overrun in midfield, particularly against Everton, whose strength apparently is in that area. A tough decision, but so far this season we seem to have played best with one upfront and five in midfield.

 

And there may be a good explanation, but to take off Morison (injured or whatever) at 0-1 but under great pressure and replace him with Wilbraham rather than a midfielder (Bennett or Pilkington) seems odd, on the face of it.

[Jimbo_Jet_Set 0]

While I don''t necessarily disagree with the OP I would urge anybody who is "disappointed" by todays result to think back to where we were a couple of years ago.  A point away at Everton (and a fully deserved one in my view) is a simply staggering result for this football club.  If you need any further proof of the job that Paul Lambert has done then I suggest you dig out some of the old season review videos (2006-07 is a personal favourite) and compare the performance shown by those teams to the committed and tenacious display we produced today

[whoareyou? 0]

Morison has been ill this week according to the radio.

I think we will almost certainly go back to one up front against Wolves as their main threat is down the wing with Jarvis.

Let''s be fair though, in the end i was disappointed we didn''t win when we got to 80 mins in the lead and who would have thought that two years ago.

[smooth 114]

Yes I am sure Morison was taken off with Wolves in mind, I do have a feeling by leaving the changes late and the players we had on (certainly in the midfield) that we will see changes to the midfield personnel and system as they will be fresh from a 15 minute run out today etc. I would be very surprised if we play the same midfield on Tuesday.

 

Wilby, well I thought today it would have been ideal for Jacko, bulldoze them early with the strong boys and then have Jacko to turn them and run into the channels late on as a nice outlet. But Wilby came on, had nothing to feed on and at times was in our box more than upfield due to the pressure we were under.

 

I agree purple that the issue is accomodating a front two and hoolahan, I don''t think it particularly worked against Newcastle. Our strikers of Holt and Morison made alot of chances on their own and finally when good delivery came in the box they scored. I think that was the key today and if we play the those two big men upfront. It is not the intricate passes that Hoolahan does poses that they want, they want wingers (Pilky and Benno) to be putting quality in the box. Hoolahan put it in against QPR for Holts goal, but I have said he has not had enough end product this season for a player that many pundits, oppositions and ourselves rate as our creative spark and everything runs through him. Hey it is a step up in this division and maybe people are tightly marking him but his style is not working with the TWO big men. Maybe with a fast striker ala Jacko, Vaughan he can put that nice pass through. But we need wide men and hence why I suggest a traditional 4 man midfield and the midfield 5 that allows Pilky and Benno to support the main striker rather than a free-rolling Hoolahan.

 

I do think taking certain players off and leaving certain players on will allow Lambert to jiggle his first team selection for Tuesday, but I wonder if Hoolahan has kept his place and the thought of the old 5 man midfield is thought as best. Personally I think super sub is a great role for the wee man at the moment, but I also understand why so many would put him in the first team.

 

But as positives, our defensive unit individually were very good, hats off to Ruddy and his back four. Great to see that there was communication, trust, organization, last ditch tackling, execution and concentration remained high. The equaliser was a mistake by the midfield which did not close down the dangerous drenthe.

 

I know I am coming across with great criticism, but it is because I feel we have shown some great improvements defensively and that we were very close to gaining an amazing win, which would have been the highlight of the season so far (don''t think any of us would have said a win at goodison was possible at the start of the season). But I am very pleased with the point and believe with a little tweaking we can get a good performance as well as the points sooner rather than later to really breed another level of confidence through this team.

 

he equaliser today felt a little bit like the Stoke equaliser, it deflated us greatly. Again I would say our point is down to our defence and keeper, so where they were shaky last week in our win. They were fighting for everything for that clean sheet. Very impressed.

[Trent Canary 0]

We got thoroughly outplayed, but if you can pick up points when not playing well then we will be safe come the end of the season. Good defending meant there were few clear chances.

As per the poster above, a change in formation for the Wolves game is due in my view. We need support in midfield against Hunt and Jarvis.

[CJ 0]

I think it is three things since Holt scored again !

Sorry but at 1-0 up away from home very surprised to see Morrison off for Wibrahaum, surely revert back to 4-5-1 makes far better sense either with Bennett or Pilks who are also more match fit.

Still so glad to see Whitbread back in defence really think he makes the difference .

[Boris 62]

 

Agree with first post at all.

We have long periods that struggle so much and our deffense with zak was the best thing today.

No doubt crazy good point etc but no doubt we was lucky not hold the ball and we chase the play all the time.

No doubt against WOlves will be many changes mostly because players need rest not only because against Everton this formation not work good.

SImply this 11 was best choise against depleted Newcastle at home but away is luxury to play with 9 from 11 who played in Championship and with hoolahan,holt,moro is too much risky loosing middle so easy

[smooth 114]

I agree I remember where we have come from. A number of these players haven''t been on the same journey but have a journey themselves and have been recognised by Lambert. The levels not of my expectations, but level of performance that is required to compete has lept up dramatically and hence we have seen some players having to be let go, who probably would have stayed if we had not had this amazing rise.

 

I again re-iterate, I thought we could get a point and I am happy with it in the context of this season and that is what we have to look at, this season. We cannot always refer back, we have to look forward and hence as Lambert has said once the final whistle blows, it is done you can do nothing. You can learn and move forward to the next game and build.

 

We have had an amazing start and I love all the talk coming out of Colney that, that is all it is, a start. We need to finish it and we are in a great position to do so and can learn a great deal along the way. Today we have almost pinched 3 points from an under-performing average Everton team (for an Everton team), a great result as a lot of pressure was put on them. But during play we could have picked up those additional 2 points with a few changes. That is the learning part and as much as points are important the level of performance is the best indicator on how points will be upcoming. We just need to tweak our performance from seeing todays game.

[87canary 0]

So if you wwouldnt play 9/11 from the championship, who would you put on?

Bradley Johnson? Also from the championship

Bennett and Pilks? They played in league 1 last season.....

Not having a pop at either, as I think they are both fantastic players. But just to put into perspective he "playing players from the championship" thin.

I think we did well today, although seemed a bit flat once we took Wes off.

[Yobocop 1,441]

Holt won''t be penalised for the elbow

[smooth 114]

Yeah think we very lucky there, Holt could have put us in to trouble and also his altercation with Jagielka.

 

For me the team against Wolves is simple.

 

Ruddy

 

Naughton, Martin, Whitbread, Tierney

 

Benno, Crofts, Fox, Johnson, Pilky

 

Morison

 

I see what Boris is saying, but feel it is more to do with what a number of posts have discussed. That individually our midfielders have great individual abilites, but there are a few that stake a claim as an automatic starter as they can offer the whole package, energy, tacking, assurance, passing, crossing and goals. But as one poster said that is hard to find and I agree but I do think it is where we are a little short and an area we will improve in through the transfer market. But that is in time, we have a hard working ,young, energetic and hungry group that have achieved mid table status through to now and deserve to be. There is always room for improvement.

 

But against a Wolves team, Benno''s former team, we need to be solid and patient again. They have players who can cause problems, certainly a midfield performance where we pass our way up to Steve Morison is key and then getting the ball to Pilky and Benno to then run at a Wolves defence could bring us 3 points.

 

Personally I would be very happy with another draw at Molineaux, keeps them at arms length which is key and a great away result. But again it is a game where we can win, play this system and change it up with Hooly and Holt later on or Jacko for some pace upfront.

[drurystestamonials mark 8 0]

I disagree. We lost 2 points.

[Clint 221]

What planet do you live on if you think we lost 2 points?

Everton have a team full of internationals worth millions, we have a couple of players who scrape into the Wales team and a squad of players from lower leagues. Get a grip.

Would you not have taken a point at Goodison at the start of the season? If Everton are below us come May, I''d be very surprised.

Everton are a better team than us end of. We however, played heroically like we did across the road at Anfield and got a point, enjoy it.

[Beauseant 0]

If we''d gone to Everton, bossed the game and shelled three or four good chances before conceding a late equaliser it would be two points dropped. When we''ve defended heroically for 70 minutes while our keeper pulled off three top class saves and defenders threw their bodies into the path of goal bound shots it''s a point gained.

Hope that''s cleared things up.....

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="Clint"]What planet do you live on if you think we lost 2 points?

Everton have a team full of internationals worth millions, we have a couple of players who scrape into the Wales team and a squad of players from lower leagues. Get a grip.

Would you not have taken a point at Goodison at the start of the season? If Everton are below us come May, I''d be very surprised.

Everton are a better team than us end of. We however, played heroically like we did across the road at Anfield and got a point, enjoy it.[/quote]

That.

Spot on.

[lake district canary 0]

Why do people still want Holt out of the team? I don''t understand how a system is more important than leaving out your top goalscorer?

Play your best system or play your best players

Surely the answer is to play a system that favours your best players. Like last Saturday and today.

4-5-1 with Morison works, yes, but we need Holt in too - he is too strong to be left out.

[drurystestamonials mark 8 0]

We were looking like we were going to win and get a clean sheet. Before ko I would have settled for a point.

Pace of game changed with the subs. Didn''t agree with those who came on. Would have preferred to carry on attacking with Jackson''s pace instead of going defensive. Going defensive didn''t get us the win.

Whilst a point away is good form, we need to get more.

[lobster catcher 0]

Omg,how the hell can anyone suggest leaving out our top scorer.We rode our luck today and got a point.Get real you fools any true norwich fan would have taken a point today regardless of the display.So far this season we have been brilliant,my suggestion to anyone who feels the need to come on here moaning is to go and f@ck yourselves

[Aggy 944]

I really do get annoyed when people say "get a grip, think where we were two seasons ago," "would you have taken a point away at everton at the start of the season, or two seasons ago when we were in League 1?" and stuff like that.

It''s not two seasons ago. It''s now. We''re not still in League 1, we''re in the prem. We''re not a struggling premiership side, we''re comfortably in the top half. We''ve not only played rubbish teams, we''re almost half way through the season, we''ve played most teams already, so our position isn''t a fluke or because we are yet to play the big boys.

As such, why have we got to keep "thinking where we were two seasons ago?" By that theory, we could be 24th in the championship and should still be happy, because at least we aren''t in League 1 any more. It''s a ridiculous, backwards looking and hindering outlook.

Instead, let''s take it game by game. Before the game, I personally would have been happy with a point and could maybe see us nicking something. As it was, we were outplayed during the game, and so I''m pretty happy that we''ve come away with a point.

The Wolves formation will be an interesting one for the reasons put above. I''m not going to say anything on the 451 w/o Holt, or 442 with him debate, because to be honest, I don''t think there is any one answer that is better than the other. They both make a lot of sense. But Lambert doesn''t often let sentiment come into it, so if he feels that we definitely need 5 in the midfield against Wolves, I will expect either Holt or Morison to be dropped.

[Mister Chops 7]

A couple more positives...

Grant Holt laying out Baines

Grant Holt giving some to Fellaini

[smooth 114]

I am the biggest advocate of 4-4-2 for NCFC, I don''t like the lone forward, but in certain games I do understand the rotation of this squad is important.

 

Yesterday the 3 man midfield with Hooly ahead was invisible for much of the game. Our defence defended admirably while we never had a bank of four in front of them, collecting loose balls and breaking up their attacks. Hoolahan did not know whether he should close down the deeper sitting Everton midfielders or come back into the traditional bank of four, in the end he was bypassed with ease with one pass and hence our mdifield three had to cover alot of ground, hence Johnson is more suited to that than Surman.

 

The four man midfield can work but we need hard workers who can battle and pass the ball to then wide players who can put in quality balls into the box, these were missing yesterday, for our two strong strikers to attack. Hence why I feel against a team like Wolves who will want this win more than us after throwing away a result at home against Stoke it is better to play with a more solid midfield than the system adopted yesterday. We were not the better team and had a chance to win ugly, but what a position we were in. I thought a point would be excellent and it is if you were to look at the table before the game. We are still ninth and other teams faltered or lost to others below us. Hence a nice gap is growing. Everton were very low on confidence and I will surprised if they play like that when they visit Carrow Road, but they had 3 shots stopped heroically by Ruddy, Saha''s left foot effort which just ghosted by the post, Jagielka''s strange penalty claim, Russel Martin''s two blocks, one when Ruddy had came to clear and missed and one from Osman and Tierney''s tackle in the penalty box.

 

Fantastic last minute defending, but that highlights that it was due to us having Everton in very good positions. A great result, that was so nearly better. Now we move to Wolves, if Morison has been ill this week lets hope he can shake that off. But I do wonder what midfield line up we will go with and as much as I would like the two upfront, I wonder if we od have the personnel in the middle of the park to allow us to in this game.

 

Each game is greatly different and poses tactical changes, our best individuals are not always going to fit the best system to get a result, which can be a draw or a win. I love how Lambert goes for a win, but I also like how he has confidence to change it when the system isn''t working during a game. I personally feel that Hoolahan will be better off the bench if we were to play a 4-4-2, certainly Benno coming home is an ideal player to start and I would happily see Pilky if his training ground performances warrant a position. But I suppose that is it, if they haven''t been good enough in training then you are on the bench.

 

Again I am much happier with two upfront, but yesterday I felt we gave them no supply or support in either half to make of note, until Tierney galloped forward. But I also felt our midfield was invisible, not getting loose balls, keeping the ball, breaking up attacks and supporting the front guys rather than lofty balls into the gaps behind. Yes on paper, Everton are a superior side with a number of players underperforming and we held them to a draw. A great result and for me, a win at goodison would be the best result of the season so far. So a great result that was nearly better, but there is always areas where we can improve and for me that area was the midfield in many aspects of the game.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Personally I really dont understand why nobody has suggested the obvious

If we do have to consider one upfront why not give Holt a go, sure he wont have the pace of Morison but personally I feel he is more likely to be able to hold up the ball and bring the midfield into the game. Sure it worked well a couple of times but recently when we have played it Morison has looked isolated and the midfield innefective in the game.

My thoughts for Wolves would be as follows.

Especially with the illness Morison has had this week it may be an idea to give him a rest.

Either 2 upfront Holt  Morison/Jackson without Hoolahan replaced by Pilks.

or Holt up front with Pilks added to the midfield

Got my ticket looking forward to it !

OTBC !

[smooth 114]

Kgloves, I would say that you bring up a point that can be discussed and certainly will be an option if Morison has been ill this week and doesn''t fully recover after this game before Tuesday.

 

Morison has not had a week off and is the now and future for us, Holt is performing now and relishing in it. Morison is our starting striker for now and will be in the future, as he develops so quickly.

 

Just the best thing is, we have a game so quickly to push on for more points and options. Wolves will be well up for this game and hence we need to match that.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="HoltsDerbyDayHattrick"]Why was wheeliebin brought on he is terrible, they were all over us a very good point in my eyes. Maybe morison was brought off with tuesday in sight? Also i hope holt dont get penalised for his ebow.[/quote]

From what I saw Holt gave as good as he got, Mop head tried to say it was unprovoked, after he clobbered Holt afew times good job the ref turned a blind eye at that point, it was always going to be a tussle between these two but Mophead thought he could get the better of him and try to get him sent off, must admit though, due to my bad hearing I thought Everton had Spillane playing for them, Argh the joys of TV. LOL    

[KeelansGlove 0]

I disagree don''t get me wrong Morison has been huge this season but I honestly think Holt Is more likely to score and links the play better. In Lambert we trust let''s leave it to the expert.

[smooth 114]

I think both having the scoring records they have is exceptional, when most of the time they have had scraps to feed off.

 

I agree Holt, due to playing with some of these guys for a season, has a rapport and an understanding that makes him a better fit for a teams performance. Certainly why many of us comment that the team play better and more assured when he comes in from off the bench.

 

I think both will get near 10 goals each this season which would be fantastic, but I am impressed that Morison has impressed greatly and we have a striker who is performing now and I look forward to seeing him in a NCFC shirt performing at Carrow Road in the next few seasons. His progression, if it continues at this rate, will attract admires from other prem clubs and it is a good reward for his efforts and shows the exceptional talent of Lambert et all to bring the best out of the team and most importantly the individual.

 

But I agree Lambert will pick the best team that will get us the result.

[Liam 0]

Like many on this thread I was there yesterday, and I have to say I worried about the 4-3-1-2 before we even got started. Sadly nothing that happened before we took off Hoolihan convinced me that I was wrong to worry! I can see that Lambert doesn''t really trust him as one of a four man midfield, and with both strikers on form and Everton struggling it was a positive formation to go with, but it just didn''t work, and I agree with the poster who would''ve changed it earlier than he did.

That said, and although I was really annoyed that Drenthe got inside onto his left foot with such ease (surely that is the NUMBER ONE thing you need to worry about with a very good left footed player on the right, stuff the overlapping Hibbert!), it was a point earned from one shot on target in the entire game, and obviously had Holty''s header been a fraction to the left we would have won the game. I don''t rate Whitbread but he did well yesterday, and Ruddy obviously had an excellent game.

I too would like to see 4-5-1 on Tuesday, if he wants to include Hoolihan then great, drop one of Fox, Johnson or Crofts, although the problem remains as to which one out of Holty and Morrison he laves on the bench, maybe Holty''s age or Morrison''s illness will help in that regard. The wide players give us options when our full backs have the ball, without them yesterday we hit a lot of long balls with limited success.

[lake district canary 0]

Smooth wrote:

"For me the team against Wolves is simple.

Ruddy  Naughton, Martin, Whitbread, Tierney

Benno, Crofts, Fox, Johnson, Pilky

                 Morison"

 

 

You''d leave out our top goal scorer?

Strange.....................