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ROBFLECK

Fulham game

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I accept that Spurs were the better side and that we might have expected too much...I don''t want to be labelled a moaner but face it, we were poor , just as much as Spurs were great.
Face it, Fulham have some great players too and their defence are good in the air. I think it''s going to be a tough game after this performance. I rely on PL to change the formation and try something else. What do you think? Give Bennett and Pilks their place back in the side?

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Nope if they all recover in time I would keep the same team. Defensively we played well last night and should see more of the ball against fulham. Our attack display has not been the problem this season, its defensively. If we played a weaker prem team yesterday I think that first clean sheet would have been in the cards. Take positives from it and move onto fulham.

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All i know is 4-1-2-1-2 should never be played again we were destroyed down the wings and gave them so much space.

Would play the 4-5-1 which got us the results earlier.

Then again saying that Morison looked fucking useless last night so would like to see a 4-4-2 with Holt and Jacko? Or give Morison another go with Holt either way not the diamond again as PL got it completly wrong.

We looked more lively when Pilks came on as he was attacking his man, Benno was just crossing from where he was.

Would like to see Holt, Fox, usual back 4 (maybe drury instead of tierny), Johnson, Morison and Hoops. Also Pilks but god knows how to pick a formation for that.

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It is a game where I don''t think we can under-estimate the importance of this result, after picking up points from losing positions and our midfield showing its attacking prowess but also highlighting its massive defensive frailities. I think it is time to change it. I don''t think we will get the reaction that we need with the diamond or with a few players that were in tonights squad.

 

I would play with Pilky instead of Hoolahan, Johnson instead of Crofts and Benno instead of Surman (rough on Surman, but I like the partenrship Benno has with Naughton). It could be a lot of changes with Naughton and Tierney coming back.

 

But personally I think we need to freshen it up, massive game where we need points, not just 1 but we need all three otherwise we will slip down the table quickly and it will be the beginning of February.

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[quote user="HoltsDerbyDayHattrick"]BGHL makes a valid point, the diamond against a weaker prem side will and can work, but i feel we were just lacking major width by playing it.[/quote]I agree, and I like Bennett and Pilks or Surman playing on the flanks. I reckon we need to play our "wingers" against Fulham and leave Fox or Crofts out.

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I would leave Crofts out personally.

I would play a 4-1-2-1-2 or a 4-4-2 with Hoolahan in the CAM role in the diamond or playing central in the 4-4-2.

Would like to see Pilks on the right? And Surman on the left?

Either that or drop Surman, have Pilks left, Benno right.

I have no idea, but i agree a result is needed on Saturday otherwise we could start falling.

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[quote user="HoltsDerbyDayHattrick"]BGHL makes a valid point, the diamond against a weaker prem side will and can work, but i feel we were just lacking major width by playing it.[/quote]

Johnson Zamora Dempsey these will find the net if we play the same as last night, but I trust Lambert has already changed the team plan for saturday, Zamora will want to hurt us again for those of us who remember why, for those who don''t he was rejected by Norwich as being no good.  

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[quote user="HoltsDerbyDayHattrick"]Woops i dont mean smooth what formation would you play, i mean ROBFLECK.[/quote]I would go back to the 4-5-1 we started with or a traditional 4-4-2 and leave Fox out...

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i would say we should play a 4-3-3

usual back 4 and have johnson, fox and surman as the central midfielders and pilkington, morison and bennett as the front 3.

and when we are defending, the wingers will drop down into midfield and give us the defensiveness of 4-5-1.

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we played 4-3-1-2 against spurs - not the diamond.    We had a set up to frustrate and spurs were abl eto unlock it.

 

The Fulhams are tougher games.  Holt has had two poor quiet games - so I would drop him and revert back to 4-2-3-1

 

Ruddy

Naughton   Barnett  Martin   Drury

             Fox    Surman

Pilkington   Hoolahan     Bennett

                Morison

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I thought Morison looked the weak link last night.When we switched the formation and brought the subs on I thought Wes came to life and we started to look a bit more dangerous whereas Morison still looked completely ineffective.  Didn''t think Crofts was too good either

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I wouldn''t be too disheartened to see us return to the 4-5-1, but a few big decisions would have to be made.

Who is dropped out of Holt and Morison?

Does Hoolahan start or do we play 3 strong central midfielders?

Do we play it as a 4-5-1 or a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-4-1-1?

I wouldn''t mind seeing:

Ruddy

Naughton - Martin - Whitbread - Tierney

Crofts - Fox

Bennett - Hoolahan - Pilkington

Holt

Perhaps Johnson in for Fox/Crofts would be my only other change.

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I think all this talk and discussion of system and team selection has alot to do on having the defensive abilities in midfield and accomodating W. Hoolahan

 

I will admit I am very critical of Hoolahan and as mentioned earlier would consider dropping him for a 4-4-2 system. However the post above by Largey has actually made me think that maybe if we do accomodate him we should not play the 4-4-2 formation when Hoolahan plays behind 2 strikers, but actually have him as the second striker.

 

Ruddy, Naughton, R. Martin, Whitbread, Tierney, EB, Fox, Johnson, Pilky, Hoolahan, Holt/ Morison.

 

I think it is a little unfair on Surman but I do think we need to be secure when we are defending, currently our midfield is being stretched and holes are clearly visible and this not just with the top Premiership teams. I think when we have had Hoolahan behind the lone Morison he has sat far too deep, but this time he would bring a problem to the centre back, who would follow him? When do you pass him to a defensive midfielder?

 

It is just a thought that maybe accomodates Hoolahan in to our starting team without then having a midfield being stretched. I think this topic will run through all season as no one particluar system/ player selection looks to be first choice, I agree that some games you have to change for the opponent, but I don''t think we know our best team.

 

Personally I said it I do like a 4-4-2 and I would go without Hoolahan to have the traditional benefits of the 4-4-2, but if we were to accomodate Hoolahan then I think it maybe is in the role as second striker. Not that I would think he would be the best choice when Vaughan and possibly a new Jan. striking recruit joins. But I can''t see a formation that Hoolahan can fit into, to offer enough going forward and enough defensive capabilites for a whole 90 against Premiership opposition.

 

Ruddy

 

Naughton, R. Martin, Whitbread, Tierney

 

Benno, Fox, Johnson, Pilky

 

Morison, Holt

 

That would be my choice for Fulham, balls put into the box from our wingers. Creativity through our wide players and more defensively sound with a flat midfield 4. But as mentioned this debate will go on and on. Hence why I am looking forward to the new January recruits who hopefully will bring that spine and balance to the team.

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WIth Whitbread fit we now have 2 CBs who can pass the ball so we should probably be looking to play it out of the back a bit more. For that reason I think its worth giving 5-4-1 a go. Martin''s excellent positioning and reading of the game could make him a great sweeper/cb playing between Whitbread and another. The extra cover would also allow him to run out of the defence which he obviously wants to do.

Elsewhere I''d drop Morison as he was useless against Spurs and didn''t seem that bothered. Bring Bennett and Pilks back in, swap Crofts for Johnson and drop Wes.

--------------------Ruddy

-------------------Martin

Naughton---Whitbread----Barnett--Drury?

.............Johnson---------Fox

Bennett----------------------------Pilkington

------------------Holt

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As has been stated on numerous occasions on other threads, the main problem is that we have lots of midfielders who have one specific ability that they do very well (e.g Fox= passing, Johnson = tackling, Hoolahan = linking play) but none that are able to combine 2 or more of these abilities.  I suppose this is why they are playing for us and not a top 6 team. As a result any formation we choose is going to be a compromise somewhere along the line. Drop Fox and you lose a certain calmness on the ball. Drop Johnson/Crofts and you lose bite. Drop Pilkington and you lose width and crossing ability.

I agree with smooth when he says that nobody (Lambert included) really knows what the best combination is. That is why I hope that if we buy anyone in the transfer window I would want it to be a quality midfield option. We could really do with a box to box midfielder in the mould of Francis/Etuhu especially if they were able to contribute a few goals as well, although where you find a player like that for less than a couple of million I don''t know.

As for Fulham, the good news is that they don''t posess a midfield anywhere near as good as the one we faced the other night meaning we have the chance to dominate in this area.

I personally favour dropping either Holt or Morison and using Wes or Pilks as a "second striker" who can then drop back in to the midfield. This gives us the solidity in the middle we need because we can play Fox and Johnson as holding midfielders allowing the wide men and hopefully the full backs more license to get forward and support the attack.

My team for Saturday would be

                                             Ruddy

                  Naughton     Martin     Whitbread    Drury

                                    Fox            Johnson

               Bennett              Hoolahan/Pilkington      Surman

                                                Holt

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we seems also tyred a bit and Fulham have a bit more rest from us so with so many games in short space no doubt will be changes and also PL always after poor display rotate team.So time for Johnson,Pilky ,Bennet to start and also Drury must keep his place imo.very very imp 3 days for us with 4 pts from this 2 we will be with huge huge chanse to stay without  doubt but if we failed dark clouds will come so quick ....come on yellows!

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I would love us to go back to the 4231 that served us to well earlier in the season, Pilkington and Bennett out wide, Johnson back in to support Fox in the center. I would however give Surman a go (purely based on his recent form) in the free role behind the lone striker, who I would have as Holt after SM''s lazy display last night.

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My orgional idea for the team on Sat was     RuddyNaughten   Martin   Whitbred   Tierney (if fit)Benno   Fox(Surman?)  Johnson  Pilky    Holt    Jacksonhowever after reading some posts on here i could be swayed by

    RuddyNaughten  Martin  Whitbred   TierneyBenno   Fox   Johnson   Surman     Pilky    Holt/MorrisonI defiently think wes should be dropped, perhaps needs a rest, hasn''t quite been working for him. I remember after xmas when he was dropped last season, came back much better.I have been one of surman''s biggest bashers this season, but i think he has been one of our top performers last few games and deserves to keep his place. (doesn''t lead to good morale by dropping top form players, reduces the incentive to come into the team and make a spot your own)I think its essential we get some width back into our game with a big man in the box. I would normally say play Holt and Morrison together, but i think Morrison has been quite poor last couple of games, perhaps need a slight kick up the arse, and dropping him may just do that.I think both formations will see us beat Fulham, so long as we perform on the day, i just hope Lambert brings some width and pace into the team, we are getting very very predictable otherwise.

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Yeah, bang on Jimbo about the nature of our midfielders - I think we could really do with a decent box to box player. Someone who can win the ball, but can also get up and help - I think that is the one piece of the jigsaw that the midfield is missing. Failing that, I''d like an out and out ball winner who covers ground like nobody''s business, to allow us a bit more cover and the possibility of playing the diamond more successfully.

However, for this weekend, I''d go back to the 4231.

Ruddy

Naughton Martin Whitbread Tierney/Drury

Fox Johnson

Bennett Hoolahan Pilko/Surman

Morison

I''d go with either Tierney and Surman, or Drury and Pilks. If we''re playing Tierney, who is going to bomb forward down the flank, then I don''t think it hurts to have Surman on the left to both support and cover him. Pilks and Drury though allows Pilks a bit more freedom, as Drury is more likely to sit in and be a more traditional full back.

Morison just about gets the nod over Holt, tough call!

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So then zipper left / right foot. Most people either go with Holt or are undecided. You want to drop.Holt because of two poor games. What a Dick. I really hope when Holt has long done and you are sipping a glass of port ( or whatever u fancy) and watching back on the tv at some of holtys goals you actually appreciate what we had. It was not long ago we craved having a striker that was our own. Grant Holt is another huckerby, malky, iwan, a legend. Enjoy him while he is here. Don''t get me wrong for what I have said he does not get an automatic place in the team, but if u don''t see what he brings to the team then u are either blind or support the scum.

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We were noticeably better against Spurs when we brought on wingers Pilks and Bennett!

 

Morison was poor so needs a bench sitting place on Saturday!

 

Crofts has worked hard but was over run so probably could do with a place on bench on Saturday to have a little break!

 

Hoolahan got stuck in against Spurs and we have more atttck minded play when hes playing!

 

Therefore my team against Fulham would be -

 

Ruddy

 

Naughten RB, Martin CB, Whitbread CB, Drury LB.

 

Bennett RW, Fox CM, Johnson, CM, Pilkington LW

 

Hoolahan, free role between midfield and attack

 

Holt lone striker.

 

This line up will give us plenty of defensive cover as well as attacking impetus.

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quote user="Bryangunnshairline" so then zipper left / right foot.. What a Dick.

 

 

I thought this was a forum for opinions?   Nicely counter argued there,  no valid point to discuss just some turgid name calling. My opinion does not make me anything you would like to insult me with.  I dont need to justify myself but here goes anyway.

 

Holt is a legend (far ahead of the Malky & Iwan, who played the wantaway card too quickly when it suited them, and close to matching Hux well earned god like status)  and I do fully appreciate what he has done for us,  I love he is here and certainly dont want him to leave simply because his not in my starting 11 for the next game.  He & Morison are closely matched and far and away the best fit strikers at the club.     The flip side is that both he & Morison are also relatively limited at this level, they have their limitations and saying that is not an insult,  just a recognition of the capabilities.  As you say both are ours, they are both scoring and in the absence of several £m I would not swap them. 

 

Some facts - we have started 9 games each with either 2 up front or 1 up front.   With two up front we have won 2 and lost 4, scoring 13 and conceeding 16 and 9 points.   With a lone striker its won and lost 3, 14 goals scored and 17 conceeded and 12 points.

 

My opinion is that we get more points (backed up by some facts), play better (purely my opinion) and create a better team (purely my opinion), playing to our overall strengths (also purely my opinion),  when we play 1 striker. I happen to think Morison is better at the lone striker than Holt, who is far better than Morison in other areas.  IF Morison was injured or suspended I woudl go with the same formation with Holt starting.   If we got a fit Vaughan I suspect I may still go for a lone striker but with JVstarting as he also has some pace. 

 

My opinion,  not projected as fact, is that my teams best starting 11 is the one posted above.  Which means Holt goes to the bench - its a squad game.  Hence my prefered team,  with NO implied insult to those left on the bench remains a 4-2-3-1 with a hungry Holt ready to come off the bench when needed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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quote user="Bryangunnshairline"  Zipper I apologise for my cheap abusive insults. This is a forum , you are entitled to your opinion and I need to stay off the porto for a few nights. No excuse. Sorry

Gracious apology accepted  [:D]

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

quote user="Bryangunnshairline"  Zipper I apologise for my cheap abusive insults. This is a forum , you are entitled to your opinion and I need to stay off the porto for a few nights. No excuse. Sorry

Gracious apology accepted  [:D]

[/quote] ..... thanks zipper. Otbc.

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