Guardian Chalkboard Norwich vs Arsenal

[Legend Iwan 30]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/nov/21/premier-league-chalkboard-analysis

Unsurprising to see that without Hoolahan we lose possession and our attacking impetus. I am impressed with out first-half passing stat.

[ZLF 334]

http://www.holtamania.com/2011/11/21/story-of-a-match-arsenal/

and more first class analysis here too

Poor shape in defence, exposed full backs, removed the only players who can pass forcing a long ball game and retain an ineffective crofts.

We will learn from this.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Funny how differently things can be seen- I really thought Hooli looked a lightweight luxury for a lot of Saturday''s match... the formation change didn''t work out but I didn''t see it as related to a lack of Wes at all.

[Shack Attack 0]

I was thinking about this very issue after the game and trying to evaluate the contribution that Wes has made this season. It seems fairly obvious that we perform better as a team with him in the side (he has played in all of our wins and our passing often suffers when he is withdrawn as shown in the example produced by the OP) but there is a feeling that maybe he is not creating enough. I suspect that this is down to him playing in a less advanced role than the last two seasons and obviously he is now playing against better players. To get the best out of him I feel we need to get the ball to him in more advanced areas but I confess I have no idea how to do it without weakening the rest of the team.

 

In a way I think that one problem sums up why a few people are a little frustrated at the moment. Every time we seem to solve one problem it seems to throw up a new one. Whether it is in terms of formation, personnel or style of play every decision we make causes a reaction somewhere else in the team. Whether it is removing a striker to stop us getting outneumbered in midfield, bringing Fox in to improve our passing, playing with two pacey widemen and playing with only one. All of these things have both worked and not worked at various points. For a set of supporters who have grown used to a fairly settled team and tactics over the past couple of season it is getting a little confusing.

[Jim Smith 2,578]

Interesting stats and back up what i thought at the time. In taking off Fox, Hoolahan and Pilks we took of any creativity but more importantly any players who can put their foot on the ball and retain possession. I thought it was a mistake at the time. Arsenal are a good side and would almost certainly still have won but in the prem its all about ball retention and it seems to be taking Lambert a while to get his head round that and work out our best midfield. His default substitution always seems to take off Wes or Fox but they are players I would keep on the pitch.

 

Unfortunately, the days when we could chuck on 4 strikers and lay siege to the opposition box for the last 15 minutes when a goal down have gone now as you just won''t get the ball back and have enough possession to build pressure. We got lucky against Blackburn but Arsenal didn''t really let us have a kick.

[Robert N. LiM 6,208]

Having brought on Holt I thought it was a very strange decision to take Pilkington off, who was surely the most likely person to give him some service. Morison put a great shift in but was knackered in the last ten minutes - he should have been the one to make way for Jacko if you ask me.

I have felt much the same as Shack - every formation we try has its weaknesses. Perhaps we should follow the example of Terry Venables, who when he picked his first England team showed it proudly to his wife, only for her to point out that he''d chosen 12 players. Maybe 4-5-2 is the way to go.

[Robert N. LiM 6,208]

Have just looked at that link. Anyone who describes Wes as a luxury player really needs to read it.

Still, as that cabby said to Stewart Lee, you can prove anything with facts.

[Jim Smith 2,578]

He''s not a luxury player. He''s our most important outlet from defence if Fox isn''t playing. Yes he tries to do too much sometimes but i think in recent games he''s occasionally been caught on the ball or run into trouble because of a lack of options in front of him due to the rest of the team playing so deep.

He''s not bossing games like he did in the championship. Thats to be expected as we are up againts much better players. i firmly believe though that we need to play our most talented and technically gifted players and Wes is certainly one of those.

[211203 0]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/nov/21/premier-league-chalkboard-analysis Unsurprising to see that without Hoolahan we lose possession and our attacking impetus. I am impressed with out first-half passing stat.[/quote]

 

Thanks for the link - this analysis (and the Holtmania site) - to me are a good explanation of the game as I saw it on Sky.  I particularly like the fact that the Guardian article points out that we were never out of it and their 2-1 lead didn''t look comfortable (unlike some of the more extreme reactions in the press and on here).

 

Concerns for me are that despite having Crofts, Fox and Johnson all with protecting the back 4 as a key mission, Arsenal were repeatedly able to open us up through the middle with fairly simple balls.   Also both fullbacks were left one on one against their wingers most of the game.  Tierney actually didn''t do that badly against Walcott over the 90 minutes, but was completely done a few times including the goal.  Naughton was I think caught out a lot more often, but Gervinho failed to capitalise.

 

Looking back at Old Trafford we were a lot tighter, and denied a set of equally good players until very late in the game.  Against Arsenal I never felt we were comfortable defensively at any point (although going forward I always felt they were vulnerable too).  What I want to know is how we get back to playing more like we did a month or so back ?

 

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Don''t get me wrong- I''m not calling Wes a luxury player as such... just in some games I think he lacks the strength/pace necessary to use what he has. If he was bigger or quicker he could influence more games in this league- but when we are under the hammer I don''t think he''s ever going to be able to be a useful out ball as there aren''t many he can knock it past and out pace and he can''t hold it up without just getting bumped off the ball.In this league you can''t use tricky footwork to out fox defenders and holding midfielders that often without them coming straight back at you. In games where he is isolated, like Arsenal on saturday he is the wrong man for that job.... maybe swapping Wes and Pilks when out of possession could work out better- so he is the man joining play rather than holding it in those situations? But then in that situation I kinda think I''d like to see how Surman on the left and Pilks in the Wes role works.