the changes in holt

[nutty nigel 7,528]

To be fair I don''t think that does sum it up for the majority of us fans. Certainly not for me although I can''t claim to have the view of the majority any more than you can Angel.

 

I think we have to get real. Last time we were in the Prem we tried to mix it with the best at what they do best. We had plaudits from the likes on Mourinho for our principles but wre on the end of a lot of hidings. So we have to forego those principles this time. If we are to have any chance of survival we have to do everything we can to gain an advantage. We are not going to beat Arsenal at football. We might win one game in 100 that way. Our best chance of scoring against vastly superior footballers is through set pieces. This is a fact and this is how Stoke survived. If us fans don''t follow suit and chuck our principles out of the window it''s going to be a long season.

 

 

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Our best chance of scoring against vastly superior footballers is through set pieces. This is a fact and this is how Stoke survived. If us fans don''t follow suit and chuck our principles out of the window it''s going to be a long season.

[/quote]

 

We also stand a better chance of scoring if when our centre forward has the ball in the oposition six yard box he holds it and tries to bring another player into the game rather than chucking himself on the floor. Or maybe he should have tried to win a corner so we had a better chance of scoring [:^)][;)]

 

We cannot do things the same way as Stoke as we do not have anyone who can do what Rory Delap did for them. It is a lot easier to rely on scoring from set pieces if even a throw in forty yards from goal can end up in the box. If our masterplan to ensure survival is going to revolve around Grant Holt winning free kicks around the box it is going to be a very long season indeed.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Our best chance of scoring against vastly superior footballers is through set pieces. This is a fact and this is how Stoke survived. If us fans don''t follow suit and chuck our principles out of the window it''s going to be a long season.

[/quote]

 

We also stand a better chance of scoring if when our centre forward has the ball in the oposition six yard box he holds it and tries to bring another player into the game rather than chucking himself on the floor. Or maybe he should have tried to win a corner so we had a better chance of scoring [:^)][;)]

 

We cannot do things the same way as Stoke as we do not have anyone who can do what Rory Delap did for them. It is a lot easier to rely on scoring from set pieces if even a throw in forty yards from goal can end up in the box. If our masterplan to ensure survival is going to revolve around Grant Holt winning free kicks around the box it is going to be a very long season indeed.

[/quote]

Come on Shack. That''s not really fair! I didn''t suggest our masterplan should be for Grant Holt to win free kicks around the box. And I wasn''t referring to the "dive" in the box although I do think it''s been "done to death" on here since it happened. In fact I didn''t suggest these set pieces should be "around the box"! [:P]

 

But we have to gain every advantage we possibly can to have any chance of getting anything out of a game against a vastly superior side. If winning free kicks helps us then it''s a worthwhile tactic in my book.

 

 

 

[Time to go Delia 0]

Winning free kicks is fair enough , Holt holds the ball up and entices a defender into a foul theres no problem with that , but what Holt did Saturday was go away from the ball to get in front of the defender then dropped to the ground as though shot ... thats cheating plain and simple and if thats the only way we can stay up maybe we are better off in the Championship.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

A quick glimpse into the future. Just hypothetical, like......

Dateline : Sun 13 May 2012. Time :16h45. The Place : The 18 yd box at Norwich City''s Barclay End.

 

Norwich City v Aston Villa. Score 0-0. Norwich are 2 pts from relegation and desperately need a winning goal to stay up.

 

Norwich''s no 9 Grant Holt is challenged by Villa''s Dunne, and goes down rather theatrically. The ref awards a penalty. Holt dusts himself down, takes the pen,and sends Villa keeper Shay Given the wrong way.  Two mins later the ref blows for full time, and Norwich will be playing Premier League football again in 2012-13.

 

Would the Holt bashers still be grumbling then ?????

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Come on Shack. That''s not really fair! I didn''t suggest our masterplan should be for Grant Holt to win free kicks around the box. And I wasn''t referring to the "dive" in the box although I do think it''s been "done to death" on here since it happened. In fact I didn''t suggest these set pieces should be "around the box"! [:P]

 

But we have to gain every advantage we possibly can to have any chance of getting anything out of a game against a vastly superior side. If winning free kicks helps us then it''s a worthwhile tactic in my book.

[/quote]

 

Looks like we are talking about two different things then Nutty. I haven''t got a problem with Grant Holt backing into defenders and trying to win us free kicks as long as he does it well. I agree that in a league where it is much more difficult to break down defences a set piece will often be our best chance of scoring a goal against better sides. I have got a problem with what he did on Saturday though as I think it is detrimental to the team and it lost us a chance to maybe get a shot on goal. It''s not the first time it has happened this season either (his ''performance'' as a substitute against Sunderland sticks in the mind) and he needs to find that balance between being clever and blatantly cheating. No referee was going to fall for his dive (does the use of "dive" in your previous post suggest that you don''t believe it was a dive?) on Saturday.

 

As I said in a previous post what we need in the Grant Holt who came on against Liverpool. He didn''t need to worry about winning free kicks in that game because he played with such directness and aggression that their defenders didn''t dare go near him [;)]

[hogesar 9,657]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="hogesar"]I fucking hate our own fans.He didn''t dive for a laugh, he felt a touch in the back and felt the best opportunity he''s going to get to give OUR TEAM an advantage was to go over. In fact, he was willing to look a bit of a wally infront of a national TV audience to try and salvage a point for this club to bring us a step closer to staying in this league.[/quote]

 

And I dislike fans who think that they have to defend every single thing that our players do to prove their support. I''m a little embarrased for you to be honest. Especially for the bit about how he was ''willing to look a bit of a wally''.

 

There was no touch in the back. Holt moved towards the defender to engineer contact and then fell to the floor in the hope of winning a penalty. I don''t think it''s ''a disgrace'' as the OP suggests but it was pretty embarassing. He had a chance to fight for the ball and pass it back to another player but he took the easy option and tried to con the referee. That''s what bothers me rather than the actual dive.

 

Paul Lambert should sit Grant Holt down this week and show him a video of his performance against Liverpool because that is what we need when he comes on. Aggressive, direct and powerful. He showed none of those attributes on Saturday and the dive was the worst part of a pretty abject cameo.

[/quote]Hmm....fundamentally incorrect as per Shack!No, i don''t have to defend every little thing a player does. If Holt had single-handedly lost us the match i wouldn''t be singing his praises. The situation is, however, there has been 7 pages of nonsense for a single wrong decision. Holt could have stayed on his feet, of course he could have. He didn''t. He made the wrong decision. Did it really warrant 7 pages of high-horse moral criticism? Did it warrant some posters claiming ''maybe he should leave the club'' or ''he''s no longer up to it''? No, because it was a single mistake.Just because i wont jump on the back of a player as soon as they make one wrong move (as several posters on here have done) it does not require you to be embarassed for me. If anything, its much more the other way round. I felt Holt contributed well when he came on, won a free kick and tried to run the channels. I appreciate that you have mentioned the Liverpool game, many seem to have simply forgotten it and claim all Holt can do is dive.

[anonamoose 4]

HOLT went down trying to buy a PEN which backfired. Fair enough, there''s plenty of Pedersens that will try to (cheat) to get an advantage. He rightly got booked. LETS NOT FORGET he also won 2 free kicks in dangerous positions when he was on as well as always being one of the most fouled players in the division he''s playing in. 

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

Once again I have to agree with you hogesar. The same goes for the Martin mistake. The guy kept us in the game first half. We were playing a champions league side and we were in it until the last minute. The odd mistake will happen esp against quality like that. It''s the games against the teams around we need to be.winning.

[hogesar 9,657]

[quote user="Bryangunnshairline"]Once again I have to agree with you hogesar. The same goes for the Martin mistake. The guy kept us in the game first half. We were playing a champions league side and we were in it until the last minute. The odd mistake will happen esp against quality like that. It''s the games against the teams around we need to be.winning.[/quote]Yep. Fingers crossed for QPR next week!Wonder what people will say if Holt comes on and wins a penalty 89th minute winner..

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]Hmm....fundamentally incorrect as per Shack!No, i don''t have to defend every little thing a player does. If Holt had single-handedly lost us the match i wouldn''t be singing his praises. The situation is, however, there has been 7 pages of nonsense for a single wrong decision. Holt could have stayed on his feet, of course he could have. He didn''t. He made the wrong decision. Did it really warrant 7 pages of high-horse moral criticism? Did it warrant some posters claiming ''maybe he should leave the club'' or ''he''s no longer up to it''? No, because it was a single mistake.Just because i wont jump on the back of a player as soon as they make one wrong move (as several posters on here have done) it does not require you to be embarassed for me. If anything, its much more the other way round. I felt Holt contributed well when he came on, won a free kick and tried to run the channels. I appreciate that you have mentioned the Liverpool game, many seem to have simply forgotten it and claim all Holt can do is dive.[/quote]Sorry but as far as I can see there is this fundmental desire for some City fans to praise Grant Holt regardless of what he does. I''m sorry but I find that not only unhealthy but it also does the man himself a great disservice. ''He won a free kick and tried to run the channels''. Is that enough now for a man who is our ''talisman''? I can just see the player ratings now. Grant Holt 9 - Won a free kick. Man of the Match. I wonder if Steve Morison would get away with winning a free kick and trying to run the channels. Somehow I doubt it.He didn''t lose us the match and I am not claiming he did. But he wasn''t great by any means and the dive looked like the actions of a man who looked a little desparate. He can make a difference at this level, the Liverpool game is a fine example, but we should be demanding that of him more often rather than making excuses.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

Would the Holt bashers still be grumbling then ?????

[/quote]

 

But if you read through the thread not many people are bashing him, most people love Holty, appreciate what he''s done for the club and know that he still has a big part to play.

All some people are saying is that they wish he wouldn''t fall over so easily and would stop trying to con the ref because its embarrassing.

 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

Would the Holt bashers still be grumbling then ?????

[/quote]

 

But if you read through the thread not many people are bashing him, most people love Holty, appreciate what he''s done for the club and know that he still has a big part to play.

All some people are saying is that they wish he wouldn''t fall over so easily and would stop trying to con the ref because its embarrassing.

 

[/quote]

Well it doesn''t embarrass me Angel. I for one am glad he goes over easily and I bet I''m not the only one.

 

Oh and Shack buddy, I know you often see the same game as me so I''m surprised you thought Holt could be as effective in open play against the arse as he was against the bindippers. At 1-2 and struggling for possession a free kick or penalty really was our best option.

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Yes City Angel, I do read the thread, and realise that the vast majority are behind Grant Holt. There''s just a few who are bashing him. If you feel he''s play acting, then fair enough. But to call him an "embarrassment", as you have done, is shocking.

 

Overall, I think I''m happy to trust PL''s judgement on this rather than that of a few Forum whingers.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

While I think Holt needs to be a little more subtle, and admitting that I hate players conning referees, I''m personally glad that our players are beginning to try and win penalties in this way a bit more. Several of the penalties we conceded at the top of the season were nonsensical and I felt we were a bit naive in terms of the challenges which led to those penalties and the fact that our players weren''t trying to do the same.

Its the way football is nowadays unfortunately but if we want to stay in this league we need to keep doing as others do.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

Yes City Angel, I do read the thread, and realise that the vast majority are behind Grant Holt. There''s just a few who are bashing him. If you feel he''s play acting, then fair enough. But to call him an "embarrassment", as you have done, is shocking. [/quote]

 

Hold on Mr Pickles , dont misquote me,  I haven''t called Holty an embarrassment, I''ve said that when he falls over easily and tries to con the ref , I find it embarrassing.

I also said that we love Holty, appreciate what he''s done for the club and know that he still has a big part to play, but you conveniently missed that bit  [:)]

 

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

A quick glimpse into the future. Just hypothetical, like......

Dateline : Sun 13 May 2012. Time :16h45. The Place : The 18 yd box at Norwich City''s Barclay End.

 

Norwich City v Aston Villa. Score 0-0. Norwich are 2 pts from relegation and desperately need a winning goal to stay up.

 

Norwich''s no 9 Grant Holt is challenged by Villa''s Dunne, and goes down rather theatrically. The ref awards a penalty. Holt dusts himself down, takes the pen,and sends Villa keeper Shay Given the wrong way.  Two mins later the ref blows for full time, and Norwich will be playing Premier League football again in 2012-13.

 

Would the Holt bashers still be grumbling then ?????

[/quote]

Why not vary your scenario a little bit and ask thesame question. Suppose Bent goes down in the Norwich penalty area on the 90th minute and the resulting converted penalty sends City down to the Championship?

Would everybody be on here saying "oh well never mind, that''s just football today?" I strongly suspect this messageboard would be full of posters calling Bent a cheat and demanding the FA look into it, demanding a rematch or whatever.

To win by any means possible is not the Norwich way. If you win through cheating as Nutty Nigel appears to be condoning by saying ''win by whatever means possible'' is it really worth the prize. The cheaters obviously think so, but I for one wouldn''t want to be part of a club that saw nothing wrong in cheating. And once you accept that it'';s ok to cheat, so long as we''re the beneficiaries of the outcome,as many on here seem to be saying, then where do you draw the line? Why not offer a bung to the oppo goalie to throw the match,or bribe the ref to award us a couple of penalties? If that was the difference between us staying up, Mr. Pickles/Nutty Nigel, and going down to the Championship, presumably you will be happy that the end justifies the means?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"][, then where do you draw the line? Why not offer a bung to the oppo goalie to throw the match,or bribe the ref to award us a couple of penalties? If that was the difference between us staying up, Mr. Pickles/Nutty Nigel, and going down to the Championship, presumably you will be happy that the end justifies the means?[/quote]

 

Not the same thing at all RTB. The two options that you offer (match fixing/bribes) are actually CRIMINAL offences . As far as I''m aware, obtaining a soft penalty is not.

 

I certainly take your point about the boot being on the other foot (Bent getting a pen to send us down), but, at the end of the day, there would be very little we could do about it if it were to happen. I notice, however, that despite going all around the houses, you don''t actually give me a straight answer to my question. ie , would you criticise GH, if he were to win a pen that kept us up ?  Yes or No ?

 

I''m afraid that those of us who live in the real world  realise that there is very much a "if you can''t beat ''em, join ''em" thing going on in all Sport today.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

A quick glimpse into the future. Just hypothetical, like......

Dateline : Sun 13 May 2012. Time :16h45. The Place : The 18 yd box at Norwich City''s Barclay End.

 

Norwich City v Aston Villa. Score 0-0. Norwich are 2 pts from relegation and desperately need a winning goal to stay up.

 

Norwich''s no 9 Grant Holt is challenged by Villa''s Dunne, and goes down rather theatrically. The ref awards a penalty. Holt dusts himself down, takes the pen,and sends Villa keeper Shay Given the wrong way.  Two mins later the ref blows for full time, and Norwich will be playing Premier League football again in 2012-13.

 

Would the Holt bashers still be grumbling then ?????

[/quote]

Why not vary your scenario a little bit and ask thesame question. Suppose Bent goes down in the Norwich penalty area on the 90th minute and the resulting converted penalty sends City down to the Championship?

Would everybody be on here saying "oh well never mind, that''s just football today?" I strongly suspect this messageboard would be full of posters calling Bent a cheat and demanding the FA look into it, demanding a rematch or whatever.

To win by any means possible is not the Norwich way. If you win through cheating as Nutty Nigel appears to be condoning by saying ''win by whatever means possible'' is it really worth the prize. The cheaters obviously think so, but I for one wouldn''t want to be part of a club that saw nothing wrong in cheating. And once you accept that it'';s ok to cheat, so long as we''re the beneficiaries of the outcome,as many on here seem to be saying, then where do you draw the line? Why not offer a bung to the oppo goalie to throw the match,or bribe the ref to award us a couple of penalties? If that was the difference between us staying up, Mr. Pickles/Nutty Nigel, and going down to the Championship, presumably you will be happy that the end justifies the means?

[/quote]

There is a perfectly good quote function on this website. If not it''s possible to copy and paste from the original post. But making something up and putting it in quotes is dishonest and could well be a messageboard yellow card offence.

 

This thread is not just about the incident in Arsenal''s box. It''s maybe been hijacked by a few who think it is. But it''s not. Read the opening post[8-|]

 

"But you have to admit that he goes down far too easily nowadays and its embarrassing, he doesn''t need to resort to those tactics with the ability he has."

 

"the first freekick out wide is appauling, mertesacker brushes into holts back and he goes down holding his face! "

 

"All some people are saying is that they wish he wouldn''t fall over so easily and would stop trying to con the ref because its embarrassing."

 

Now these are not comments about the penalty incident. These are comments about Holt''s general play. Half our goals this season have been scored from set plays. Probably half the rest have been scored through defensive mistakes like the goal against Arsenal. Very few are from open play and we need to savour those that are because of the quality we are up against week in week out.

 

Holty''s contribution has been invaluable to us this season. He''s not a liability or an embarassment. He is a legend. From what I have seen so far I would say we have little chance of staying up without him. Right now he is probably as important to us as Van Persie is to the arse!

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Rock The Boat"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

A quick glimpse into the future. Just hypothetical, like......

Dateline : Sun 13 May 2012. Time :16h45. The Place : The 18 yd box at Norwich City''s Barclay End.

 

Norwich City v Aston Villa. Score 0-0. Norwich are 2 pts from relegation and desperately need a winning goal to stay up.

 

Norwich''s no 9 Grant Holt is challenged by Villa''s Dunne, and goes down rather theatrically. The ref awards a penalty. Holt dusts himself down, takes the pen,and sends Villa keeper Shay Given the wrong way.  Two mins later the ref blows for full time, and Norwich will be playing Premier League football again in 2012-13.

 

Would the Holt bashers still be grumbling then ?????

[/quote]

Why not vary your scenario a little bit and ask thesame question. Suppose Bent goes down in the Norwich penalty area on the 90th minute and the resulting converted penalty sends City down to the Championship?

Would everybody be on here saying "oh well never mind, that''s just football today?" I strongly suspect this messageboard would be full of posters calling Bent a cheat and demanding the FA look into it, demanding a rematch or whatever.

To win by any means possible is not the Norwich way. If you win through cheating as Nutty Nigel appears to be condoning by saying ''win by whatever means possible'' is it really worth the prize. The cheaters obviously think so, but I for one wouldn''t want to be part of a club that saw nothing wrong in cheating. And once you accept that it'';s ok to cheat, so long as we''re the beneficiaries of the outcome,as many on here seem to be saying, then where do you draw the line? Why not offer a bung to the oppo goalie to throw the match,or bribe the ref to award us a couple of penalties? If that was the difference between us staying up, Mr. Pickles/Nutty Nigel, and going down to the Championship, presumably you will be happy that the end justifies the means?

[/quote]

There is a perfectly good quote function on this website. If not it''s possible to copy and paste from the original post. But making something up and putting it in quotes is dishonest and could well be a messageboard yellow card offence.

This thread is not just about the incident in Arsenal''s box. It''s maybe been hijacked by a few who think it is. But it''s not. Read the opening post[8-|]

"But you have to admit that he goes down far too easily nowadays and its embarrassing, he doesn''t need to resort to those tactics with the ability he has."

"the first freekick out wide is appauling, mertesacker brushes into holts back and he goes down holding his face! "

"All some people are saying is that they wish he wouldn''t fall over so easily and would stop trying to con the ref because its embarrassing."

Now these are not comments about the penalty incident. These are comments about Holt''s general play. Half our goals this season have been scored from set plays. Probably half the rest have been scored through defensive mistakes like the goal against Arsenal. Very few are from open play and we need to savour those that are because of the quality we are up against week in week out.

Holty''s contribution has been invaluable to us this season. He''s not a liability or an embarassment. He is a legend. From what I have seen so far I would say we have little chance of staying up without him. Right now he is probably as important to us as Van Persie is to the arse!

 

[/quote]

 

This is the only post that I have read on this thread because I don''t have the time to wade through.......

 

But I agree with you.

 

And if I were the manager I would start with Holt on Saturday, and bring on Morison after 70 min., or so. But I''m not so Lambert will probably continue with what, in my view,  is probably his first major mistake since he''s been here

 

One way I would put it is that Morison certainly has his strengths but tends to be mono-dimensional, whereas Holt is multi-dimensional with that indefinable magic factor; if you get what I mean!

 

OTBC

 

P.S. I think that the tactic of a fresh Morison taking on a tiring defence is an interesting prospect

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Great Wall Of Tettey 0]

i feel my initial point has fell in the wrong way with some fans.

nobody is against grant holt, and as alot of points state he has been nothing but emmense for the club, thats the frustrating point. the fact he has banged in goals left right and centre means he has the potential to take players and score alot of goals, he doesnt need to cheat opposition? holt could have easily ran and got the ball keeping pressure on the player and probobly get a shot away.

[Syteanric 1]

I think Holty is a superb player for us and has the leadership qualities we so badly need, but as I have said before he really isnt the sharpest of tools in the box on the pitch, Act now think later (Next week) sometimes!not taking anything away from Holt and what he has done so far but the yellow cards for falling over are stupid, try winning the ball and who knows.. he might have had 100 goals by now!

[lake district canary 0]

Some of Holt''s team play over the last few years has been superb as well as his goal scoring.  People underestimate his level of skill. I was fortunate last season to be sitting down by the corner flag against Swansea when he was running away from goal towards the flag and you thought there was no way he could get a cross in from there but he turned and put in an inch perfect cross for Jackson to put away. He did something just as good at Villa for Morison to put away.The guy has absolute class. He has proved he can do it at this level - the goal at Liverpool gets better every time I look at it. This long (very long) thread covers every possible thing about Holty.  What is undeniable is that he is still a great player and has plenty to show us yet.I think that if he can get to become a regular starter for the team again, then we will see the best of him again.  He will at some stage get that chance and I for one am looking forward to it.  The odd wrong decision is excuseable but his class is permanent.

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

Spot on lake district. Up to the beginning of this season when ever Holt was out of the team ( injury, suspension or the odd cup.game) we missed him. Have we missed him this season? Although Yeh we have got some good results without him we miss him as has been seen in recent games. When Holt came on recently he has given the team a lift. He is our captain and the heart beat of the team. Morison is a good player but he does not drive others, Holt does. My worry is people say keep Holt as a super sub. Holt has done well coming on but this won''t work every game. Holt is one of them players as shown in the past that needs.game time and gets better with each game. Does he deserve that game time? Yes because not only did his goals put us where we are today but his recent sub appearances show he.deserves a run. It''s down to Lambert to find a formation to pit him in. Before you say its not about Holt its the team , your right and Holt brings so, so much. We need him in right now.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="Vaughans Stiff Upper Lip"]seems like grant holts suspected ''dive'' raised a few eyebrows today, but this isnt the first time is it? am i only one who has noticed that holt has changed over the years he has been at norwich ? when he first joined he was ''big grant holt'' the bruiser that used to fight for every ball and challenge and was constantly getting booked for hacking defenders down. this was the grant holt that norwich fans loved to pieces. 2nd season imo holt turned into an even better player, becoming less so the bruiser and turned into more of a complete footballer, looking to provide more for the team. take the ipswich game at home, grant holt battled with the CB to win the ball for his first goal, yet moments later you see him suspectly falling after minimal contact. this was clever play by going down when it was only vital that he did. however this season he has done nothing but frustrate me especially as he looks a fitter and quicker player than he has ever been. against liverpool he was amazing, nothing you can take away from him. he came on and showed us all with his goal how to really fight for a ball and show how much determination he has. near enough all of the games he has played in this season he has produced 1 or 2 stupid dives, and today seems the biting point for me after coming onto the pitch and does nothing but fall over? norwich are 1 goal behind and need a stiker to come on and influence the game, but 3 times is just stupid. in all fairness he did get 2 freekicks but why does he have to overexadurate so much? sitting in the upper barclay i could do nothing but hold my head in shame as even from my position you can see how it was blatant play acting when the ball was just yards away from his feet. my point is really why is he doing this when he has more than enough ability to win the ball fairly and score lots of goals like he has done in the past?![/quote]

 

If this thread had been just about the incident in the box against the arse I probably wouldn''t have posted but it clearly wasn''t buddy. I just see things differently to you. That doesn''t mean you''re wrong because my opinion is often at odds with many on here. However your thread title, opening post and subsequent replies are not just about that incident.

 

Anyway, each to their own but I reckon Holty gets a rough ride on this board. Last season there were threads saying he shouldn''t be playing. Even some stating that we couldn''t get promoted if we kept him in the team. I guess for many people he''s not what they enjoy in a player. Especially now we are in the Prem they expect to see players like Van Persie leading our attack. Just because we are now a Premier club we aren''t the equal of many clubs there. It''s not being "Little Norwich" to accept that. It''s a fact. The majority of sides have far more quality than us and the top six are "a million miles away". We have to get as many points as we can to survive. I believe a mid-table spot could be possible but it won''t happen if we try and out play the opposition. We did that last time and got on the wrong end of many hidings. We are going to have to scrap for every point in every way we can. Set plays are our best chance against vastly superior opposition so if there''s a foul we need to make sure the ref sees it.

 

I''m not advocating cheating but you need to be sure what cheating is. As far as I am concerned the ref thought Holt guilty of unsportsman like behaviour on Saturday and gave him a yellow card. Offence spotted and punished. In the other incidents the ref saw Holt fouled and punished the Arsenal players by awarding a free kick. Think back to Holts contribution in the time he''s been on the pitch this season. Count the goals, assists and scoring set plays he''s won for us. Then consider where we would be without him.

 

 

[hogesar 9,657]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Vaughans Stiff Upper Lip"]seems like grant holts suspected ''dive'' raised a few eyebrows today, but this isnt the first time is it? am i only one who has noticed that holt has changed over the years he has been at norwich ? when he first joined he was ''big grant holt'' the bruiser that used to fight for every ball and challenge and was constantly getting booked for hacking defenders down. this was the grant holt that norwich fans loved to pieces. 2nd season imo holt turned into an even better player, becoming less so the bruiser and turned into more of a complete footballer, looking to provide more for the team. take the ipswich game at home, grant holt battled with the CB to win the ball for his first goal, yet moments later you see him suspectly falling after minimal contact. this was clever play by going down when it was only vital that he did. however this season he has done nothing but frustrate me especially as he looks a fitter and quicker player than he has ever been. against liverpool he was amazing, nothing you can take away from him. he came on and showed us all with his goal how to really fight for a ball and show how much determination he has. near enough all of the games he has played in this season he has produced 1 or 2 stupid dives, and today seems the biting point for me after coming onto the pitch and does nothing but fall over? norwich are 1 goal behind and need a stiker to come on and influence the game, but 3 times is just stupid. in all fairness he did get 2 freekicks but why does he have to overexadurate so much? sitting in the upper barclay i could do nothing but hold my head in shame as even from my position you can see how it was blatant play acting when the ball was just yards away from his feet. my point is really why is he doing this when he has more than enough ability to win the ball fairly and score lots of goals like he has done in the past?![/quote]

 

If this thread had been just about the incident in the box against the arse I probably wouldn''t have posted but it clearly wasn''t buddy. I just see things differently to you. That doesn''t mean you''re wrong because my opinion is often at odds with many on here. However your thread title, opening post and subsequent replies are not just about that incident.

 

Anyway, each to their own but I reckon Holty gets a rough ride on this board. Last season there were threads saying he shouldn''t be playing. Even some stating that we couldn''t get promoted if we kept him in the team. I guess for many people he''s not what they enjoy in a player. Especially now we are in the Prem they expect to see players like Van Persie leading our attack. Just because we are now a Premier club we aren''t the equal of many clubs there. It''s not being "Little Norwich" to accept that. It''s a fact. The majority of sides have far more quality than us and the top six are "a million miles away". We have to get as many points as we can to survive. I believe a mid-table spot could be possible but it won''t happen if we try and out play the opposition. We did that last time and got on the wrong end of many hidings. We are going to have to scrap for every point in every way we can. Set plays are our best chance against vastly superior opposition so if there''s a foul we need to make sure the ref sees it.

 

I''m not advocating cheating but you need to be sure what cheating is. As far as I am concerned the ref thought Holt guilty of unsportsman like behaviour on Saturday and gave him a yellow card. Offence spotted and punished. In the other incidents the ref saw Holt fouled and punished the Arsenal players by awarding a free kick. Think back to Holts contribution in the time he''s been on the pitch this season. Count the goals, assists and scoring set plays he''s won for us. Then consider where we would be without him.

 

 

[/quote]agree 100% nutty!

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]agree 100% nutty!
[/quote]

 

Me too Hog. What Holt does is not cheating. It''s part and parcel of the modern game. Watch all the Champs Lge games tonight and tomorrow, and you''ll see far worse than what GH gets up to.

 

The Stokes , Boltons, Blackburns, Wigans of this world ,who''ve stayed in the Prem are clubs I respect immensely . OK they may not play football the purists'' way , but they mix it about a bit and get enough results to keep up.  Whether we like it or not, that''s what Norwich are going to have to do if they are to follow suit.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

The Stokes , Boltons, Blackburns, Wigans of this world ,who''ve stayed in the Prem are clubs I respect immensely . OK they may not play football the purists'' way , but they mix it about a bit and get enough results to keep up.  Whether we like it or not, that''s what Norwich are going to have to do if they are to follow suit.

[/quote]Is anyone suggesting we don''t have to mix things up in our play? I think we are playing noticeably more direct this year which is a direct consequence of a) having less time on the ball b) missing the central defender who is most comfortable on the ball and c) adding pace on the flanks. None of that has anything to do with the subject in hand but there you go.As for Grant Holt I would say that overall his performances have been patchy this season. Sometimes he has played well and sometimes he has looked short of what is required at this level. His overall game has been nowhere near as impressive as Steve Morison. Hence the reason he has not been a regular starter. But he''s a ''legend'' and a ''talisman'' and his influence is such that the mention of his name in the dressing room inspires his team mates to improve their game by 7.86% on average. So obviously he must start on Saturday.