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The Great Wall Of Tettey

the changes in holt

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It''s not the sportsmanship side that bothers me so much as we were in the box, had a good chance of getting a shot away and nicking an equaliser, and he looks for a touch and jumps to the ground like he''s been shot. Surely as a striker your first instinct should be to get a shot away, not try and con the ref?

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[quote user="splutcho"]It''s not the sportsmanship side that bothers me so much as we were in the box, had a good chance of getting a shot away and nicking an equaliser, and he looks for a touch and jumps to the ground like he''s been shot. Surely as a striker your first instinct should be to get a shot away, not try and con the ref?[/quote]Not really, if you look again he had lost the ball and tried to con the ref as he had no chance of getting a shot off.

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As much of a dive as it was, he didn''t really stay down and appeal for the penalty. Just got up and got on with it.

(that''s how it looked on sky anyway)

Not the worst ''dive'' I''ve seen from him by far. But as stated, everyone else does it in this league, so why not? He never would''ve scored from there

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It wasn''t really a dive was it, in the true sense.  Holt was just looking for it.  Jeez if that was a booking,  refs should be sending players off every single match for players looking for it.  As far as I''m concerned GH is just playing the game as it were.  Until the rules, refs, etc etc get the falling over for a foul is sorted out. This will continue.

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Vaughan''s Stiff Upper Lip - don''t know where you were watching from, but I was in the Jarrold directly facing the Holt/Mertesacker incident. Mertesacker put his fingers in Holt''s face in the area of his eyes, pretty unpleasant actually. Dowd couldn''t have seen it, as they had their backs to him. Holt definitely wasn''t play-acting.

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[quote user="Thirsty Lizard"]Prem 1 - Rooney, Scholes, Gerard, Owen etc never dive do they???[/quote]

 

The thing is though, there are good divers & there are bad divers. Good divers only do it when there is actual contact from the defender, when they''ve got a 50-50 chance of getting away with & when the dive only becomes apparent on a replay of the incident.

Unfortunately Holt doesn''t have this ability & simply just falls over after sticking his backside into the defender making it totally obvious what he''s trying to achieve. In a nutshell, he''s got no class as a diver.

As it said on the BBC live update website yesterday - "Into the dying stages at Carrow Road where Grant Holt tries a farcical dive in the area and is told to get up."  

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I agree with the original poster. Also Ruddy Wizzard you have hit the nail on the head - ;ambert has worked miracles with his team but if we are up against a team like Arsenal their team is worth a hell of a lot more than ours so to lose by just a goal - why complain?! It wasnt that we werent good it was just the opposition were better (because of the money & experience behind them) imo

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[quote user="Mr. Bump"]Would you still be moaning about Holt''s antics if one of the free kicks he won had been scored? I don''t have a problem with it, although it did make the ''Same old Arsenal, always cheating'' chant sound a little silly.
[/quote]

I would certainly have a problem  with it if we won the game by cheating. I wouldn''t want to support a team that cheats, I want my team to win on merit. Yes, I understand that a lot of cheating goes on today on the pitch, but that''s why we need good referees and the use of technology to beat it and not succumb to it.

Grant Holt is much more a complete footballer than just being a bruiser. If you watch him, he''s a very intelligent player. He has great ball skills.He can do much better than amateur dramatics on a Saturday afternoon. 

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I thought he has always played this way to be honest, the only reason we are now noticing is because he is not scoring as many and we are not winning as often and need something to moan about.

Its worth remembering that after a large chunk of the season (And probably at the end as well) he was the most fouled player in the championship, and also committed the most fouls (IE - He falls over a lot, sometimes he gets the decision, sometimes he does not)

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why all the slating, some so called fans on here are pathetic, i bet the chelsea fans dont moan about drogba do they.

why moan about one of our own players its pointless

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I think he has got a reputation and the refs are on the look out for it.   Yesterdays effort was an embarrasing farce and he deserved his booking.

 

It is a tough balance to strike,  as we saw against Terry, Holt is a handful at this level but he needs to pick & choose his moments better and force the foul from teh defender by being big and strong and wanting to win and retain the ball rather than getting into a position to win a foul.  To win a free kick seems which holts current priortiy rather than playing the ball.     He is better than that, and so are we.

 

 

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[quote user="canary_bird"]Vaughan''s Stiff Upper Lip - don''t know where you were watching from, but I was in the Jarrold directly facing the Holt/Mertesacker incident. Mertesacker put his fingers in Holt''s face in the area of his eyes, pretty unpleasant actually. Dowd couldn''t have seen it, as they had their backs to him. Holt definitely wasn''t play-acting.[/quote]Anyone care to refute this? If true, it would explain a lot. It''s very easy to jeer at players collapsing inexplicably after apparently innocuous challenges, but you don''t always see exactly what''s going on - I''ve done it myself, only to see blood pouring from a head wound afterwards.I''m not saying players don''t fake stuff, some times they do, sometimes not. It''s just that it''s not always that cut & dried.

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Holt has always been cute at getting free kicks but for some reason this season he is overdoing it.  Maybe he is trying just a bit too hard.  If he was first on the teamsheet like he has been for the previous two seasons, maybe he would have the confidence to relax as he will kbnow he has 90 minutes on the pitch.He has been very good off the bench on the whole, but I would still like him to play 90 minutes. He has been instrumental in several goals when has been on the pitch. Lets get off his back and see if he can fight his way back to being the number 1 striker.If he does and recreate the form of the las two seasons we''ll all be happy. 

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Not see any suggestion of the eye thing on TV,  surely one of the cameras would have picked it up and the club would have made some comment about an unjust booking if nothing else?

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It''s quite pathetic to hear Norwich fans talking like this considering Holt scored a large amount of goals to get us here. He has always been the most fouled and fouls the most. He will pick up his fair amount of cards because of this. He won a freekick v villa which pilks converted , he won a freekick v blackburn in the last few second which was handled for a pen. That''s his game , always has been. It''s just highlighted because he is not playing as much because he does not fit into our glorious 451 system. Hmmm.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Not see any suggestion of the eye thing on TV,  surely one of the cameras would have picked it up and the club would have made some comment about an unjust booking if nothing else?[/quote]

It wasn''t the incident where he got booked, it was over by the touchline in front of the Jarrold, right in front of where I sit - why would I make it up?

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Bryangunnshairline - spot on.

You sum up what I said earlier in the post, he is coming on for the last 20- 15 minutes and hence these battles that go on for 90 minutes even themselves out and are forgotten, but are highlighted in short cameo appearances.

Holt is def. a great player to bring on, it is such a shame he and Morison have found it hard to build a partenrship for 90 minutes. They aren''t too bad for 15 minutes, but we need to get the ball in the box for them to attack.

Holt will cause all centre backs problems and I am sure many of them will be relieved to see him on the bench as we would be if certain players are on the bench

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Why pathetic?.   Every post has recognised what strengths Holt brings, if we are to start with 2 strikers up front Holt is the second one for me,  not jackson. 

 

All I have asked for is to get the balance right,  Holt causes defenders problems,   what he has done this season, and the end of last too, is increasingly look for a cheap free kick;  he is a better player than that and carries a real goal threat when he focus'' on attacking rather than falling.  As LDC suggests he has done that too often this season - yesterdays sham was just that and he deserved his yellow card - he tried something and got caught out;  to me what is pathetic is defending it!  Esp when its detrimental to his own fine game

 

I loathe it when suarez rooney drogba do it,  I am not going to be hypocritical and accept it in our own players.

  

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[quote user="canary_bird"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Not see any suggestion of the eye thing on TV,  surely one of the cameras would have picked it up and the club would have made some comment about an unjust booking if nothing else?[/quote] It wasn''t the incident where he got booked, it was over by the touchline in front of the Jarrold, right in front of where I sit - why would I make it up?[/quote]

 

Sorry,  my bad I read it as you suggesting it was.   Not accusing you of making it up,  just not heard anyone else mention it.  And with the blanket tv coverage would have thought someone would?  As someone else asked can anyone else expand on this? 

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Think it''s wrong how people can suddenly jump on Grant Holt''s back.He does what he feels he needs to win the game. He went over in the box under slightest contact...has that happened to us this season? Yes.He clearly felt he couldnt do anything with the ball so waited for minimal contact and went down. Some of you need to get off your moral high-horse because if we HAD got a penalty for that, and scored...every single one of you at the ground would have been on your feet celebrating. Don''t pretend you wouldn''t have.Now, i think Lambert and Holt know a little bit more about what their game plan is, than you lot do. It''s like a fucking constant canary call with the bellends on this forum.

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I don''t want to win matches by cheating and how can we claim the moral highground and complain when other clubs do it. We will reap what we sow and lose hard-won respect of the neutrals. Do we really want that ?

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Holt has always been cute at getting free kicks but for some reason this season he is overdoing it

[/quote]

 

Perhaps he''s realised what his limitations are.

I just think he should concentrate on what he does best & that''s not looking ridiculous in front of 26,000 people & a Worldwide TV audience.

We all now he''s better than that but if that''s all he''s got now then I''m afraid it''s time for him to go.

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I can''t believe the odd attitude of some: when we had all those dodgy pens against us earlier in the season, we all said that we hoped they would even themselves out....seems some of you have forgotten. I don''t like diving, but we''ve lost out to it plenty and if there is some contact you can''t blame Holt for going down as all players seem to. Perhaps he went too far yesterday (not seen it other than at the game) but to say it is ''disgusting'' as some have really is being rather feeble.

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[quote user="87canary"] Not the worst ''dive'' I''ve seen from him by far. [/quote]

No not his worst dive but that doesn''t make it right does it?

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Grant Holt came to us in League One from League Two. His leadership and goals have been as big a part of our success as lamberts management. In my opinion some of the comments on this board today are unfair and even ungrateful. Reading that he''s a disgrace and it''s time for him to go is far more embarrassing than anythin Grant Holt has ever done. Maybe some fans should look in the mirror for an embarrassing disgrace. I don''t see anybody criticising Paul Lambert for sending Holty on to try and save the game. Lambert knew what he was doing. But both Holt and Lambert have earned a bit more respect than is being shown by some.

 

 

 

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