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Legend Iwan

No Country For New Men - Wes Hoolahan

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For anyone interested in a bit of light reading before the match kick-off here''s something I''ve written this morning about Hoolahan''s chances of making it into the Ireland squad.

"Paul Lambert, in addition to Ian Culverhouse, much like Geppetto have spent many an hour hand crafting Wes Hoolahan..."

http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/blogs/shade_of_yellow/archive/2011/11/19/2640436.aspx

Or click on the picture below.

Comments welcome as always. [:)]

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Doubt Hoolahan will get a chance. Trapp has got his system and he isn''t going to change it now - there is certainly no need for the drastic changes you suggested in your piece. There''s only one friendly game left before the final Euro prep matches so no one new is going to work their way into the squad unless someone is injured and Trapp has said the players who got Ireland to the Euros will be the ones who play at the Euros.

 

Hoolahan is too slight for Ireland''s style of play - it''s a shame for Wes who I''m sure would love to represent Ireland and play in a major international competition but at 29 his time is past.

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I agree, it''s highly unlikely he will get an opportunity in the national side.

Also don''t think the changes are as drastic as you believe - the intention to only make them in the last 20 minutes of a game. Bringing Hoolahan on and dropping one of the wingers into a central defensive position allows for the strong back unit Trapp prefers.

Thanks for reading and commenting, Bethnal. Much appreciated.

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Keep him away from mickey mouse football

His job is playing for Norwich City not propping up some outdated farce and helping to pay the bloated salaries of national FA''s - we have enough of that sh1te over here.

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Actually I am serious .

I know how many fans revere Hoolihan , I am not one of them .

I see a player who without doubt has enormous talent , but unfortunately rarely links this to intelligent use of either the ball or his own skill .

I know this is a controversial opinion , but we all see the game in a different way .

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As with all the squads they don''t have to be announced till January do they?

Do I think Hoolahoops would be considered? yes I think he will be considered. Injuries can still come to those who have been in the squad during the qualifying stages.

Do I think he is doing enough now to feel unjustly out of the squad? No I don''t think he is doing enough, last season he was in and out of our squad as we had Lansbury and Pacheco come in at different points. This season he has played in our five man midfield and I don''t think he has done enough to show off his talent.

But like I said it will be like the england team, injuries will occur and therefore new players will be brought in. If Hoolahan steps up his game he could be in contention but I don''t think his current form warrants an automatic place. But he certainly would be considered and if he impresses between now and jan. he could be in the squad.

But he needs to start performing in his club shirt this coming saturday to even be considered for our first team. I certainly feel he is falling short at the current time.

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Hoolahan is one of the most intelligent players and technically gifted I have seen play for Norwich.

He does not just run around in circles and constantly lose the ball (he may have done 3/4 seasons ago, maybe even a little in League One but he hasn''t done that for a long time bar the MK Dons failure of a game).

He wasn''t in and out of the squad last season, he started 36 league games and made a further 5 sub appearances, thats 5 games he didn''t make an appearance in, and I think he had a minor injury at one point.

The idea of a 5 man midfield this season, was essentially to fit Hoolahan in the team, i''m sure Lambert would love to be able to play Morison and Holt (or one of them and Jackson/Vaughan) but if he does that he has to leave out Hoolahan.

Your talking about Hoolahan as some fringe player who has to do his best to get into the team, he is essentially the star player, the key man. Paul Lambert, the man who has won two successive promotions and after his first 12 premiership games he has has relegation tipped in 11th place, following a number of good performances even against top sides like Chelsea and Man.U. Hoolahan has started 10 and come on in 1 of the 12 matches this season.

You might not think he''s all that, but nearly all Norwich fans do, and most importantly so does the manager of the team who has seen fit to build the team around Hoolahan for 3 seasons now.

And squads announced in january? You on about club squads? The 25? How on earth can you even think about suggesting Hoolahan might not make that, he''s the first name on the team sheet let alone in the 25 man squad.

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[quote user="smooth"]As with all the squads they don''t have to be announced till January do they?

Do I think Hoolahoops would be considered? yes I think he will be considered. Injuries can still come to those who have been in the squad during the qualifying stages.

Do I think he is doing enough now to feel unjustly out of the squad? No I don''t think he is doing enough, last season he was in and out of our squad as we had Lansbury and Pacheco come in at different points. This season he has played in our five man midfield and I don''t think he has done enough to show off his talent.

But like I said it will be like the england team, injuries will occur and therefore new players will be brought in. If Hoolahan steps up his game he could be in contention but I don''t think his current form warrants an automatic place. But he certainly would be considered and if he impresses between now and jan. he could be in the squad.

But he needs to start performing in his club shirt this coming saturday to even be considered for our first team. I certainly feel he is falling short at the current time.[/quote]

I believe that to be a fair assessment of the situation

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The reason Hoolahan isn''t in the Ireland squad is obvious, its not because he''s not good enough its because he doesn''t fit the system. And i''m sure the Ireland coach knows that when the team isn''t built around Hoolahan he isn''t as effective. And he has built a successful side over the past few years without Hoolahan, because at the start of that era Hoolahan wasn''t good enough.

He is too old to start building a team around now, and Ireland have qualified for the Euros so don''t need to change anything.

Fair enough if you don''t like Hoolahan, but to suggest what you two are suggesting is quite frankly embarrassing. You say we all see the game in a different way (which is true), well its obvious to all, that we are a better team with Hoolahan on the pitch, even if he''s not playing that well. What did we do against Arsenal after Hoolahan went off? Ok we didn''t do that much before he went off, but still everything attack wise in the first half went through Hoolahan.

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Like I said ,, we all see a different game a different opinion of a game or a player .

What did we do after hoolihan left the pitch ???

We stopped running around in circles ,,and into a bunch of 3 arsenal players when we should have passed the ball .

I don''t understand the way you believe him to be our star player , he works harder in defense this year ,,, i dont see any other positive change from 3 years ago .

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Firstly can you please spell his name correctly its Hoolahan not hoolihan.

Secondly, he DOES NOT RUN AROUND IN CIRCLES you have quite obviously not watched him in the past 2 years if you think thats what he does.

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on the contrary ...I watch hime every home game and a number of away games do just that .... take off your blinkers on saturday .... count the number of times he ACTUALLY completes a pass ...I think you will be ashamed of your rantings on here this evening .

I will do the same , if I am proved wrong , I will happily eat humble pie on saturday evening .

In addition , his best season in my opinion was in League one .

I will say again , we all have an opinion , we are all entitled to our own opinion , we have made each other aware of how we individually see Hoolahan ( Right this time ? )

But just try what i suggest on saturday ,

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Good to see this has raised debate, was the intention. Everyone has made valid points so far.

I''m guessing Barclay 48/49 you haven''t read the piece otherwise you wouldn''t say he ''count the number of times he ACTUALLY completes a pass, because I worked out his average completion rate compared to the team. Before the Arsenal match he was on 86% and the team 70%.

The issue he has found this year is that those passes aren''t defense splitting on enough occasions. What it does do though, is take pressure off our back line. Retaining the ball is a vital requirement for our midfield this year, and was one of my reasons for his inclusion in the Ireland squad.

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See we don''t need to sit there and count passes, we can actually watch the game. The stats are already there, an 86% success ratio is pretty good in the premiership.

Seriously, how can you think he loses the ball that much? Its not even a matter of opinion, its something that can be counted. Maybe you have just picked up on more of his misplaced passes then his successful ones, i''m sure were all guilty at some stage or another of making out certain players are worse/less successful than they really are (or the opposite) for what ever reason.

I really don''t think you are seeing the full effect of Hoolahan, if you feel the need to then watch him closely on Saturday and i''m sure you''ll see he actually does a lot of work that may go unnoticed to many. What your describing to me, is essentially how Hoolahan was playing under Roeder and early in the League One season. He may have had his most successful season goal/assist wise in League One (obviously, because its easier, he was far too good for that league and had a brilliant partnership with Holt and Martin). In the past two seasons, I felt a lot of Hoolahan''s performance was down to Holt, when one of them was missing the other didn''t play as well....

Since the bad old days, Hoolahan has really developed in my eyes. He passes the ball a lot more, gets past players more directly (he used to, very often turn around in circles for no apparent reason), he was shooting more often (and accurately?) his work rate and defensive capabilities have vastly improved. This season, I don''t think it would have been fair to expect wonder performances. Its a lot harder, he obviously (like most players) is going to do better with more time and space, which he gets less of now but he hasn''t been playing poorly. He may have had one or two games were he wasn''t at the top of his game, but even against Arsenal any spell of possession we had, and every attack we had while he was on the pitch went through him, if we were going to forge an attack Hoolahan was the man to start it.

I actually feel a little sorry for you, thinking Hoolahan isn''t up to standard, and I know its a matter of opinion but I really don''t see how you can''t rate him highly. He''s a NCFC player, so he''s not going to be a world beater, but considering what he was like when he joined us and considering he like many other players has had to climb the ranks in the last 3 seasons, he is doing very well for himself.

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Barclay 48/49 - can I suggest that you have a look at the Guardian chalkboards thread (and the link to Holtamania) a little bit down the board. They do exactly what you suggest - count every time Hoolahan (and others) complete passes

The stats suggest that we pass the ball much better with Wes in the side.

It''s all very well saying that ''we all have an opinion'' but not all opinions are equal.

And, with respect, the stats suggest that your opinion is wrong.

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[quote user="barclay seats 4849 "]Actually I am serious .

I know how many fans revere Hoolihan , I am not one of them .

I see a player who without doubt has enormous talent , but unfortunately rarely links this to intelligent use of either the ball or his own skill .

I know this is a controversial opinion , but we all see the game in a different way .[/quote]I slightly agree with this...Wes is far too one footed and will sooner get the ball on his left foot than take a chance with his right... if he did so, even if it didnt come off, i think he''d get his chance.

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I am enjoying reading the very reasoned responses to my points , I am quite prepared to admit when i am wrong about a fact , you are right , I have not read the stats on the passing , but I do know stats can be made to read a "different truth " I know what i see . I also agree with ginger that we watch a different aspect of different players , I for one would like to see Surman given a chance to do the same job as hoolahan , I wonder if stats wouls show a similar pass completion count ...I am sure it would .

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http://www.pinkun.com:80/norwich-city/norwich_city_trio_on_republic_of_ireland_s_watch_list_1_1135865

Seems they''re keeping an eye on him at least.

THinking about it Pilks has probably got abetter chance of making it in, if he decided to.

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Thats a great response Barclay Seats, much more thought out (and mature) than some of the posts we get on here nowadays.

And Legand Iwan, I think Pilks probably does have a better chance of getting into their squad (and starting line up) than Hoolahan, and to be honest if he continues/improved his form and performances i''m sure he wouldn''t be a million miles away from an England call up? He still eligible for either nation but RoI will probably be looking at getting him in the squad sooner rather than later.

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Thanks for that Ginger , I really enjoy discussion about "our " team ..... wouldn''t last long if we all agreed with each other though !

Likewise , I fully appreciate the way you put your points , I don''t just dismiss others opinions either , I will be prepared to accept it if I see that I am wrong .

I agree about Pilks , I am thinking he can be our star ,, in my opinion missing since the demise of DH ........ I guess thats another subject of debate !

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Hoolahan is a funny player imo. On his day, he can open and unlock any defence in the League, but then the next game, he can be very poor (Villa away), and when he is having a poor game, it puts us in danger. This is because, when Wes gets the ball, Pilkington, Bennett, and one of Johnson/Crofts/Fox (depending who''s playing) will expect him to attack and go forward, so they will go up and provide support, but as we saw at Villa Park, when he loses the ball, we are vulnerable in midfield as the others have pushed up, then like at Villa, the opposition has 2/3 on a counter attack (Agbonlahor was doing it all game) because they weren''t being picked up by our midfield. It''s one of the reasons why I would play him against sides like Stoke, Wigan and Bolton, but would be slightly weary about playing him against sides who like to play with pacey wingers (Villa, possibly even Tomorrow when they will play SWP. Bring him on later in the game though, and that will give the opposition a thought or 2!

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