time to say good bye

[Kidderminster Canary 0]

Barnett, how many more will he gift the opposition

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Kidderminster Canary"]Barnett, how many more will he gift the opposition[/quote]not that many if his Goalkeeper actually used his voice a bit!

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

So nice to see such optimism!

[Beauseant 0]

Dammit, we only won 2-1, so let''s slaughter our own players - again.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Spot on Beaus[Y]

 

Our players may not be the best in the league but they''re the best we''ve got. Sometimes a mistake stands out but it shouldn''t mask all the other defensive work.

 

Clean sheets are overated. They aren''t even on the radar for league position. It goes points, goal difference, goals scored and finally alphabetical order!

 

 

[Houston Canary 0]

We have collected no clean sheets but how many have we given away? It''s no big deal if we''re scoring.

[Dicky 0]

Thought Barnett was great today - won every ball in the air and put in some great tackles. OK, he gave the ball to one of theirs that ultimately led to the goal, but not directly responsible.

Get behind our players FFS

[Cappsy 0]

it''s not as though he meant it is it. get a grip.

[William Darby 0]

I don''t want to get into silly arguments about individual players, but. Sometimes I''d rather our defence just put their boot through the ball and play safe when we get pressed hard. 

[QHcanary 0]

[quote]

Spot on Beaus[Y]

 

Clean sheets are overated. They aren''t even on the radar for league position. It goes points, goal difference, goals scored and finally alphabetical order!

 

 

[/quote]You''re not serious, are you? Can''t be? Have another think about that and then tell me why clean sheets are or aren''t important.I''ll give you a clue...it''s got something to do with goal difference. It''ll be tight at the bottom come May, and if we''re in the mix then the goals we gift teams, even when we''re winning could cost us dearly.Why do you think you see managers saying they''re disappointed they didn''t keep a clean sheet when they''ve won 3-1?

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="QHcanary"][quote]

Spot on Beaus[Y]

 

Clean sheets are overated. They aren''t even on the radar for league position. It goes points, goal difference, goals scored and finally alphabetical order!

 

 

[/quote]

You''re not serious, are you? Can''t be?

Have another think about that and then tell me why clean sheets are or aren''t important.

I''ll give you a clue...it''s got something to do with goal difference. It''ll be tight at the bottom come May, and if we''re in the mix then the goals we gift teams, even when we''re winning could cost us dearly.

Why do you think you see managers saying they''re disappointed they didn''t keep a clean sheet when they''ve won 3-1?
[/quote]

 

There''s more advantage for end of season league position in winning a match 3-1 rather than 1-0 or even 2-0

 

OTBC

[Norwich or die tryin! 0]

Completely agree with the OP. I''m sorry but Leon Barnett is just not good enough for premier league football. How many more points is he going to cost us with basic mistakes?. He makes far to many, you can see why west brom got rid. We must offload him in January, I honestly think if we continue to persist with this guy in the new year we will go down. O rate Witbread and Ayala looks like a promising player but if theses guys arnt fit we can''t keep saying ohh wait until their fit in X amount of weeks. We need to make buying a CB our number one priority in January. Time to go Leon.

[QHcanary 0]

[quote]

 

There''s more advantage for end of season league position in winning a match 3-1 rather than 1-0 or even 2-0

 

OTBC

[/quote]Deliberately obtuse, or do you just not understand?We were 2-0 up a couple of times this season and went on to win 2-1. Stoke would be disappointed to have lost a goal today, and so they should be. That goal could cost them league position.

[City 2nd 193]

Beauseant said:

Dammit, we only won 2-1, so let''s slaughter our own players - again

Sorry but what a stupid and nieve reply - we may have won 2 1, but Barnett again made another mistake which proved costly, just as he made mistakes at Villa and against Blackburn to name just two games! His positional play is poor, and he invariably panicks under pressure and makes very poor decisions - it''s not slaughtering the player - he quite simply is costing us points that could see us finish in the bottom three - is that what you want? You think he played well?

[Budapest Canary 154]

Indeed, Barnett did have more time on the ball, and better options, but his clearance was not that short. Surman had plenty enough time to track back, and pick up his man, Mackie, but then, instead of going for a tackle or foul, he kept backing until Mackie reached firing distance.

Btw, a clean sheet would have come handy against Stoke or West Brom, but in terms of league position goal difference ranks higher. In that respect we are not doing badly, and the fact that we haven''t lost to anyone, even big guns, by more than 2 goals, suggests that as a team maybe we are not that bad in that department.

[Aggy 944]

I find it completely naive and to be honest a bit embarrassing that people think it''s ok to dismiss the defensive frailities as ok, just because we won.

We''re the only side other than Blackburn who haven''t got a clean sheet yet this season, yeah ok, we''re 8th in the league at the end of today. But we''re only 2 results from being in the relegation zone! We''re doing alright, yes, but the defence is a joke.

If anyone thinks we''ve looked even half decent defensively over the last few weeks (Villa, Arsenal and today''s games), then quite honestly, I''m not sure they''ve been watching the same gamea as me!

[T 191]

Clearly the INCSC should start a campaign to get rid of this Lambert bloke who after all is the one buys and selects these defenders. Our defensive record under this manger has been consistently relatively poor. His inability to get world class defenders who never make mistakes for a newly promoted club with probably the 19th largest wage bill, no wealthy benefactor and 6m of loan repayments this year and 9m next year is simply unacceptable.

[lake district canary 0]

People can be critical, but didn''t we win the match? Why can''t people give the team a break and just enjoy a result.

Every player on the pitch will make mistakes during a game - EVERY player.

I came on this board today to read peoples comments about the game, thinking people would be in a good frame of mind having won the match. But no, lets get on somebody''s back, after all we''re just not good enough are we...................never win matches................never get promoted.............. never perform well......our players are always making mistakes...........

[Downloads 35]

[quote user="The Jewish Cowboy"]I don''t want to get into silly arguments about individual players, but. Sometimes I''d rather our defence just put their boot through the ball and play safe when we get pressed hard. 
[/quote]

 

I understand that perspective mate, but passing footy starts at the back and if we asked Barnett to hoof it up, people like Wes are never going to get on the ball to create such magical passes.

 

I''d rather Barnett kept persisting even if it means he gives a pass away occasionally, thus making sure we are playing the correct type of footy.

 

We have always been at our best passing and moving.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Aggy"]But we''re only 2 results from being in the relegation zone! We''re doing alright, yes, but the defence is a joke.

If anyone thinks we''ve looked even half decent defensively over the last few weeks (Villa, Arsenal and today''s games), then quite honestly, I''m not sure they''ve been watching the same gamea as me![/quote]Saying the defence is "a joke" is extremely harsh.  You must have a short memory as the last "joke" defence I saw was the back four plus Fotheringham when we dropped into League One.We haven''t spent big money to strengthen the defence, we have serious injury issues with both Ayala and Whitbread missing (and to a lesser extent Ward), we''re playing a right back at Centre Back and haven''t been able to field a settled back four for much of the season.  In the face of issues like that, and when playing the best teams this country (and much of Europe) has to offer, the fact we''re conceding 1 at Anfield, 2 at Old Trafford, 2 to Arsenal is not something to be proud of but it''s far from "a joke".

[smooth 114]

Constructive criticism is essential for an individual and teams performance.

For the 3 units to be changed, it was a good performance against a pretty poor qpr team. DeLaet in for Naughton, Crofts and Surman starting and Jackson upfornt. We really changed our system and some of style of play. For periods it worked well and with players growing in confidence it will get better.

It was a goal we should not have conceded it came from a bad clearance from Barney and then when it hits the post it can go anywhere and he did try and cover the goal but really with little conviction. No problem, he knows it was bad. It did not cost us the three points which was vital yesterday.

But he still needs a game where he does just put his foot through the ball, ''no-nonsense defending''. Yes it was a bit awkward from Tierney but not a bad header, he had time and the ball was not out of reach or bobbled.

I mentioned before I believe players hsould be given the opportunity to ammend for their mistakes and prove their place in the team. R. Martin was good at the back and Barney had that slip up.

We need clean sheets, no question for the sake of the season. If we had ddrawn yesterday from that mistake then it would be highlighted more and this is our problem.

If we have to score two goals because we know we will gift one to our opposition. Then we may not even get a win if we score two goals a game. I still think their is an arguement for that level headed leader at the back. But we have centre backs returning, I hope they realise that they have the right to knock on Lamberts door when fully fit if this continues.

Players need to respond to criticism, Barney will do but at what cost. Yesterday he was saved by Holts winner.

Now I said Hoolahan had to impress and I was not disappointed to see him on the bench. He came on and got an assist for Holts goal.

Finally doing stuff in the final third. In my mind not enough to go straight back into a starting position, but def. what we need him to do this season. Be creative, get assists and score goals.

Holt is proving that if we were a team that played our football down the flanks and got crosses in then he would start alongside Morison in our next game. He is troubling every team when quality is put in their box, chelsea, liverpool, QPR they all struggle with him.

Jacskon can be happy with his performance, against Man City if Lambert plays two up top then it shoudl be these two. The amount of field position we acquired due to flick on''s by Morison and Jackson bearing down on the ball certainly made a difference.

So with centre backs coming back and the need to ammend mistakes, their will be changes in our back line. Although yesterday their was wholesale changes, and we coped very well.

We are competitive in every game we play, we finally drew 7 points clear of those teams in the relegation places and still have over half the table below us. Massive plus and the sooner we get in to the 20 point bracket the better.

Man City, well playing against some ofthe best players on the planet, obviously they have a massive european night near our game. But their goal will def. be the premiership, so not expecting anything. A solid performance and the odd chance will come our way it is just will we take them. The more conviction you put in the more likely the ball will go to your player, the ball will go out or you will score.

The big things was the win, happy with the three points, it was nearly two points lost and certainly advantage us again in the away fixture due to the early January game. They will buy quality in January, will it gel over the season, who knows? But we may be in a position to get 6 points in our two games against qpr.

We do need clean sheets, a darren moore liek defender formely of qpr is what we need, a unit, ''no nonsense'' style of player. But we have defenders coming back so good news.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="QHcanary"][quote]

Spot on Beaus[Y]

 

Clean sheets are overated. They aren''t even on the radar for league position. It goes points, goal difference, goals scored and finally alphabetical order!

 

 

[/quote]

You''re not serious, are you? Can''t be?

Have another think about that and then tell me why clean sheets are or aren''t important.

I''ll give you a clue...it''s got something to do with goal difference. It''ll be tight at the bottom come May, and if we''re in the mix then the goals we gift teams, even when we''re winning could cost us dearly.

Why do you think you see managers saying they''re disappointed they didn''t keep a clean sheet when they''ve won 3-1?
[/quote]

 

I was serious but I think you''re ''avin'' a laugh buddy. You have gotta be joking and here''s the punchline....

 

Norwich City Clean Sheets 0 Goal Difference -2

QPR CS 3 GD -10

Stoke CS 4 GD -10

WBA CS 3 GD -8

Swansea CS 5 GD -4

Wolves CS 2 GD -10

Bolton CS 2 GD -12

Wigan CS 2 GD -12

 

Now I don''t think Babes was being obtuse. He is perfectly correct. a 6-5 win is more likely to improves your league position than a 1-0. There is absolutely no provision for clean sheets in the league table. Of course "back in my day young man" 1-0 wins were much sought after. In the days of goal average 1-0 was infinite where as 6-5 was only 1.2. But back then footballs had laces to avoid when you headed them[;)]

 

It''s true that managers don''t like the goals that soil clean sheets. But not any more than they dislike a second goal conceded in a win. Posters on here like clean sheets them because they are something we don''t have!

 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="QHcanary"][quote]

Spot on Beaus[Y]

 

Clean sheets are overated. They aren''t even on the radar for league position. It goes points, goal difference, goals scored and finally alphabetical order!

 

 

[/quote]

You''re not serious, are you? Can''t be?

Have another think about that and then tell me why clean sheets are or aren''t important.

I''ll give you a clue...it''s got something to do with goal difference. It''ll be tight at the bottom come May, and if we''re in the mix then the goals we gift teams, even when we''re winning could cost us dearly.

Why do you think you see managers saying they''re disappointed they didn''t keep a clean sheet when they''ve won 3-1?
[/quote]

 

I was serious but I think you''re ''avin'' a laugh buddy. You have gotta be joking and here''s the punchline....

 

Norwich City Clean Sheets 0 Goal Difference -2

QPR CS 3 GD -10

Stoke CS 4 GD -10

WBA CS 3 GD -8

Swansea CS 5 GD -4

Wolves CS 2 GD -10

Bolton CS 2 GD -12

Wigan CS 2 GD -12

 

Now I don''t think Babes was being obtuse. He is perfectly correct. a 6-5 win is more likely to improves your league position than a 1-0. There is absolutely no provision for clean sheets in the league table. Of course "back in my day young man" 1-0 wins were much sought after. In the days of goal average 1-0 was infinite where as 6-5 was only 1.2. But back then footballs had laces to avoid when you headed them[;)]

 

It''s true that managers don''t like the goals that soil clean sheets. But not any more than they dislike a second goal conceded in a win. Posters on here like clean sheets them [:$] because they are something we don''t have!

 

 

 

[/quote]

[bjg123 0]

Our defence was very good yesterday, one poor clearance that 9/10 ends up with a shot that goes over or wide. Don''t get too hung up on the clean sheet thing. Defend like we did yesterday and we''ll pick up clean sheets at some point, but far more importantly we''ll pick up wins.

[blahblahblah 2]

Neil Warnock pilloried his defence in the post-match interview. But then he had good reason - they lost.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Our 2 current CB''s are our best in that position!

A couple of games ago I was convinced that Russell Martins bubble had burst but hes been excellent in the last 2 games!

At our level we''re goign to make mistakes, its just trying to keep them to a minimum. Apart from Barnetts mistake we were very solid at the back!

[QHcanary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="QHcanary"][quote]

Spot on Beaus[Y]

 

Clean sheets are overated. They aren''t even on the radar for league position. It goes points, goal difference, goals scored and finally alphabetical order!

 

 

[/quote]You''re not serious, are you? Can''t be? Have another think about that and then tell me why clean sheets are or aren''t important.I''ll give you a clue...it''s got something to do with goal difference. It''ll be tight at the bottom come May, and if we''re in the mix then the goals we gift teams, even when we''re winning could cost us dearly.Why do you think you see managers saying they''re disappointed they didn''t keep a clean sheet when they''ve won 3-1?[/quote]

 

I was serious but I think you''re ''avin'' a laugh buddy. You have gotta be joking and here''s the punchline....

 

Norwich City Clean Sheets 0 Goal Difference -2

QPR CS 3 GD -10

Stoke CS 4 GD -10

WBA CS 3 GD -8

Swansea CS 5 GD -4

Wolves CS 2 GD -10

Bolton CS 2 GD -12

Wigan CS 2 GD -12

 

Now I don''t think Babes was being obtuse. He is perfectly correct. a 6-5 win is more likely to improves your league position than a 1-0. There is absolutely no provision for clean sheets in the league table. Of course "back in my day young man" 1-0 wins were much sought after. In the days of goal average 1-0 was infinite where as 6-5 was only 1.2. But back then footballs had laces to avoid when you headed them[;)]

 

It''s true that managers don''t like the goals that soil clean sheets. But not any more than they dislike a second goal conceded in a win. Posters on here like clean sheets them because they are something we don''t have!

 

 

 

[/quote]I''ve already conceded that a 6-5 win is better than 1-0, so you can get off that particular soap box.What you don''t seem to be getting is how conceding the odd goal when we win can hurt us. Take the Sunderland game. We''re 2-0 up and it''s looking like we''re going to win, but we start to sit back and allow Sunderland back into the game with a goal. We still win, but but the goal has been conceded none the less. Now...fast forward to May. We finish level on points but go down on goal difference. What if we hadn''t conceded that goal against Sunderland, or more to the point that goal against Stoke, or the one against Bolton, or the one against West Brom. All examples of where bad goals or defensive mistakes have cost us a goal, and in a couple of cases points. Now you can keep banging on about how clean sheets don''t matter, and you can throw me lists of stats all day long, but what matters is the league table come May, and if we go down on GD I''m sure you won''t be saying "Oh well, we got some good wins". No, instead you''ll be bemoaning our defensive naivety, because in that situation it won''t matter how many games we won 13-12, or whatever. It''ll be games like the ones against Sunderland or Bolton where we conceded in wins that have sent us down.Don''t take this to mean I''m not happy with the way things have been going. I''m immensely proud of what we''re doing, and we''ve exceed expectation so far. However, our defending is clearly our weak point and needs improvement. Anyone that says different is " ''avin a laugh ".

[Ruddygore 0]

Only just back from Norwich as we stayed last night in the Holiday Inn (great not not to spend an hour getting out of the car park and then drive the 5 hours home straight after the match for a change!) but although we cheered our goals and were thrilled with the three points when the whistle blew we decided that we''d won "ugly" and thats all that matters - getting three points when we''re not playing our best, grinding results out will be our success this season.

Not looking to argue with any points made already or any that follow but I do think that Barnett has been a bit of a weak link and not sure whether he has the potential to improve.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Swansea have SIX clean sheets this season.

 

Whhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee................................................!!!!!!!

 

OTBC

 

[William Darby 0]

Interesting four 0-0 draws.  Basically four clean sheets they also haven''t scored a goal.