Sell-outs...

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Just noticed on online ticketing that QPR is a total sell-out and there is a grand total of one ticket left for Newcastle. All this after two defeats and in the midst of economic woes in the run up to christmas. 35k looks ever more realistic.....

[Bill 1,788]

Because we will still be in our first season in the PL after two incredibly successful seasons when the extra seating is complete

We will also still have an enormous number of season ticket holders who bought their tickets at the early bird price in the Championship when the extra seating is complete

Sounds realistic to me, on that basis

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="City1st"]Because we will still be in our first season in the PL after two incredibly successful seasons when the extra seating is complete We will also still have an enormous number of season ticket holders who bought their tickets at the early bird price in the Championship when the extra seating is complete Sounds realistic to me, on that basis[/quote]

And I think the club realises that by allowing us to pay by direct debit we are going to have sell outs for a long time to come, long may it continue

 

[birchfest 397]

1,600 odd on the waiting list for season tickets and then there would be about 6,000 tickets up for grabs for Supermembers, Members and then general sale. Completely possible, and even if it isnt a complete sell out the revenue of say 33,000 is going to be more than the current income. The big teams with big away support will sell it out easy!

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Just noticed on online ticketing that QPR is a total sell-out and there is a grand total of one ticket left for Newcastle. All this after two defeats and in the midst of economic woes in the run up to christmas. 35k looks ever more realistic.....[/quote]While it''s possible that Norwich could fill 35 k for half the 18 home games, it''s unlikely that the money to put that many seats in the ground will be available for at least the next couple of seasons, at least while there are still the "external debts".  It''s been suggested that they''ll keep on cramming the seats into the small amount of space available in the current stands, and while there are more people who want to watch, fair play to them.If we''re still in this league in a couple of seasons, where would you rather the money were spent - on an expensive new tier to a stand, or on players on the pitch ?

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Just noticed on online ticketing that QPR is a total sell-out and there is a grand total of one ticket left for Newcastle. All this after two defeats and in the midst of economic woes in the run up to christmas. 35k looks ever more realistic.....[/quote]

While it''s possible that Norwich could fill 35 k for half the 18 home games, it''s unlikely that the money to put that many seats in the ground will be available for at least the next couple of seasons, at least while there are still the "external debts".  It''s been suggested that they''ll keep on cramming the seats into the small amount of space available in the current stands, and while there are more people who want to watch, fair play to them.

If we''re still in this league in a couple of seasons, where would you rather the money were spent - on an expensive new tier to a stand, or on players on the pitch ?
[/quote]

Well I have spoken to loads of fans from other clubs like Wigan Bolton Blackburn Villa West brom, and I have to say we are the envy of them all for our fan bass, the fact that we have a D/D payment for season tickets is a winner, they have often said they would do the same crowd wise if they had the same system, but thats not Rocket sience is it, if every club was to adopt this D/D we would see more fans around the country return to thier clubs. We will attract big name players but it will take a season or two to establish ourselfs, and by that I mean keeping the Manager and all his crew

[Bury Yellow 2]

I have complete confidence in Bowkett and McNally.

They must be looking at many options and the long term. From what Mr Bowkett has said I think he is none too happy about that hotel - and other decisions made BBM (Before Bowkett and McNally).

I know there are many on this message board that wouldn''t be happy but I do think they are seriously considering moving to a new ground.

We have a big big problem re parking, which will reduce with the sale of the car park. It''s bad enough now with 26k, just think of the problems with 35k.

I like The Carra and with a new main stand and infills it has the potential to look great but I just wonder if they will opt to move, particularly if the government kick start housing.

Just a thought.

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]I have complete confidence in Bowkett and McNally. They must be looking at many options and the long term.

 

 From what Mr Bowkett has said I think he is none too happy about that hotel - and other decisions made BBM (Before Bowkett and McNally).

 

 I know there are many on this message board that wouldn''t be happy but I do think they are seriously considering moving to a new ground. We have a big big problem re parking, which will reduce with the sale of the car park. It''s bad enough now with 26k, just think of the problems with 35k. I like The Carra and with a new main stand and infills it has the potential to look great but I just wonder if they will opt to move, particularly if the government kick start housing. Just a thought.[/quote]

 

I hate the look of the thing as much as anybody but there is a great deal of hindsighting about the hotel/infill debate. Back in 2005, when the decision was made, the board was being criticised here (rightly or wrongly) for spending money on off-field stuff and infrastructure and not on the team. And at that time there was no pressing need for extra capacity. And we were in debt.

 

We had spent £9m on 8,000 seats in the Jarrold Stand. I cannot now remember the exact figures but apparently infills are much more expensive per seat than straight-line stands. The calculation was something on the lines of having to spend £4m for just 1,500 more seats. Some posters may remember what the figures really were, but they were of that order, and in stark contrast to those for the Jarrold Stand.

 

And supposing we had added - at great cost - 1,500 seats? Now - according to Bowkett and McNally and posters here - that still wouldn''t have been enough. We would still have to be tearing down and rebuilding the City Stand. My very strong suspicion, based on their words and actions, is that Bowkett and McNally would have voted for the hotel if they had been on the board then.

 

[nutty nigel 7,527]

I believe you''re right Purple.

 

You have to remember that back in 2003 the board had little choice but to build a new stand. The capacity was dropping yearly because it was becoming more and more difficult to obtain the relevant safety certificates for the old South Stand. The new stand they had built was expensive as was the corner infill. We should rightly be proud of that stand and the extraordinary catering income which it plays a huge part in providing. But anymore money spent on infrastructure could quite possible have pushed the club over the edge.

 

I am more than a little concerned about the plans to increase the stadium capacity to 35,000 by building another huge stand at Carrow Road. Is the Bowkett and McNally plan to reduce the debt so that we can borrow again to build this stand? Or is the stand going to be built with money that we would need to have a competitive team in the Premiership? Last time they had no choice but this time all four stands are fit for purpose. Should we get relegated with the millstone of a new stand I feel that we would be back where we were in 2006. Bowkett and McNally would be the latter day Munby and Doncaster. And how often would we fill a 35,000 Carrow Road with fans protesting as we slid down the leagues.

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Just noticed on online ticketing that QPR is a total sell-out and there is a grand total of one ticket left for Newcastle. All this after two defeats and in the midst of economic woes in the run up to christmas. 35k looks ever more realistic.....[/quote]While it''s possible that Norwich could fill 35 k for half the 18 home games, it''s unlikely that the money to put that many seats in the ground will be available for at least the next couple of seasons, at least while there are still the "external debts".  It''s been suggested that they''ll keep on cramming the seats into the small amount of space available in the current stands, and while there are more people who want to watch, fair play to them.[/quote]fire and stadium safety authorities might put the kybosh on that... a new stand will have to appear, with a possible temporary structure in front of the hotel.

[blahblahblah 2]

I''d suggest that at these prices, a move away from Carrow Road is unlikely.Pride Park, Derby - £28 million, 33, 597 capacityRicoh Arena, Coventry - £113 million, 32,000 capacityReebok, Bolton - £45 million, 28,000 capacityGalpharm, Huddersfield - £40 million, 24,500 capacityGawd knows what happened at Coventry, but a very fag-packeted guess would suggest costs in the region of 40 million plus for a 35,000 ground...From http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/footballs-man-of-the-future-the-stadiums-paul-fletcher-has-helped-to-build-6143582.html

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

Would cost a lot to build a new stadium but we would make money back on the sale of Carrow Road and new stadium sponsor. Also we wouldn''t lose revenue from ticket sales as we could just move from one stadium to the other. But realistically this isn''t an option as it would most likely be cheaper just to knock down the City stand ....

[Boris 56]

little bit off topic but since newcastle is sell out I read  months ago about buy back tickets or somthing like this.

any idea where to check for this tickets because I need for my and my son 2 tickets and if there is no any options I must watch it from the Holliday Inn room but atmosphere is not the same ofcourse so i preffer watchng from isnide the stadium.

[Bill 1,788]

An out of town ground would lose access from the station, which is used by both home and away fans, likewise a faior number of fans use the a it''s a fairly easy walk from the City centre drop off points.

The simple answer is to do what almost every other type of ''entertainment'' business does, adjust the price to control the demand. Which I''m fairly certain will happen next season, as the early bird offers last season, which were based on Championship status, will not be at that level for Premier League Football. Likewise offering kids season tickets at a price that is equal to one match for a casual sale.

Any rebuilding of the Main stand would mean having to rehouse the many aged and longtime City fans who have been there for many a decade. The idea that they could be turfed out of their seats to make way for something new is probably a bit far fetched. Can''t see the club doing that.

[Rupethebear 7]

Boris, buy backs go on sale on the day of the game me thinks, just put 2 tickets of mine in The Jarrold on buy back so good luck

[Bury Yellow 2]

Sorry City 1st. I''m interested in your reply but not sure what you are advocating. A move to a new ground or no change to the Carra?

With regards to other negative replies regarding moving to a new ground, my probable vote to move is based purely on a personal point of view. Whilst I am one of the older contributors to this board I simply will not be prepared to leave Bury any earlier than I do now just to get a parking place. If we increase the Carra to 35k I doubt whether I would prepared to camp out the night before!!

I should add that other than my football playing days many in the Norwich area, I have missed very few games home or away.

[Bill 1,788]

Not advocating anything really merely pointing a couple of things. Too often people clutter up this board without bothering to think things through.

The high demand is partly through having almost League 1 prices for Premier League football. The logical answer is to reduce demand by price. That is exceedingly cost effective, quick and can be adjusted at the tap of a keyboard. That is the route the club will most likely take over the next season or two.

As t parking I''ve never had too much grief. To expect to be able to park with 100 yards of a huge venue, Carrow Road in the middle of a City is being a bit over optimistic. I know some who park up and take the train in. Many German cities have a much more intergrated and common sense approach whereby having a ticket allows you to travel free to the game from the suburbs.

On a personal basis their are too many memories of Carrow Road to really want to be anywhere else,more so some souless out of town plastic ground. Norwich is blessed with an abundance of superb pubs which are for many part of the game.

One suggestion might be to ban fatties or construct a gutbucket stand in front of the hotel, bring them in through the big ''gate'' underneath the River End, waddle them round past the South Stand then let them sit in the same size seats and squash each other for a change. It won''t help with an increased capacity but it will make an awful lot of fans game a bit more enjoyable. Nickname it the piggery.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

The stadium is in the best place. Within walking distance from the City Centre, down the road from the train station and not far from the Southern bypass.

The ground can also be made as big as we''ll ever need it to be!

Moving to an out of City location away from the heartland would see much of the atmosphere go and create more problems than we currently see with transporting people from the City and train staion and then many people who currently get to games on the train would revert to driving which would only quadruple the parking problem!

I believe if the current carpark does get built on, which is not for certain, the club will look to use an out of City park and ride scheme to help fans park who drive to games!

To be honest its not that long ago when if we got a crowd over 16,000, many people would be s*iting themselves about the lack of parking space and local media would be telling everyone to leave early!

Since the completion of the Jarold stand 24000+ crowds have become the norm even in our 3rd Division season 2 years ago. Everyone now has long got used to these bigger crowds, (10,000 above what we''d normally get in the 1990''s) and its no big deal nowadays. I''m sure if the ground does ever get increased to 35,000+, which will happen if we stay in the top flight and become debt free, we will again get used to regular 30,000+ crowds and all our respective transport arrangements will be adjusted to cope like we have in the last decade.

For the club to fulfill its potential than stadium expansion when finances allow are a neccessity!

Anyone that says a club who has averaged 20,000+ League crowds since 2001 in every season apart from when the Jarold stand was being built, 24,000+ crowds since 2005 including a season in the 3rd Division when the average wasn''t far of 25,000 and is now averaging over 26,000 crowds can''t justify increasing the stadium capacity to over 30,000 is simply talking out of their backside!!!!

I think the club could easily average 30,000+ if Carrow Road held 35,000+ and would sell out for certain games!

[Bill 1,788]

A good post up to -

"For the club to fulfill its potential than stadium expansion when finances allow are a neccessity!"

The delusion that City will keep the prices at rock bottom as they were years before is farcical.

League One prices in the Premier League is not going to happen. We have already seen this with casual prices being increased dramatically. Most others tickets (season) were sold BEFORE we had been promoted.

Remember the rather large (as a percentage) hike in drink and food prices in the summer. Those were not based on a belief that they would keep the club afloat. In the grand scheme of things I doubt they raised that much as a proportion of the total income. The prices were pushed to what the club knew the market would bear. That will happen with ticket prices.

Talk of 35,000 expansion and £20m plus debts will look foolish a year or so from know. Until then the same folk who were squeaking about the club consolidating in League 1, then the Championship will continue to ride this populist bandwagon.

Time will tell

[grantroederdisaster 0]

I know the club will increase prices if we stay up, I''m under no delusion where thats concerned!

The club will only be able to fulfill its potential with a bigger ground. Whats wrong in that statement?

The club have stated many times recently that major ground expansion, EG, new stands and/or upper tiers/expansions will only happen when the club is debt and can afford it. This will be after 3 seasons of Premiership football has been confirmed which will be in the spring of 2013 at the earliest by my calculations. Quite simply if top flight football isn''t maintained then major expansion won''t happen and if the team starts struggling then its likely crowds will go down. Whats foolish about that?

At the moment demand exceeds supply by some distance, hence the reason why casual prices are very high. I''m sure season ticket prices will go up if we maintain Premiership status. I think the board are not that nieve they would increase prices to such a level that fans in their thousands would not renew. Then if we ever did get to a stage where theres lots of empty seats, prices will go down accordingly. This is why clubs like Wigan, Bolton and Blackburns ticket prices are much lower than anyone else. You right in that the board are trying to squeeze prices as much as they can, but like I touched on a few sentences back, I trust they will know how far they can stretch prices too.

All in all City 1st your talking in riddles while seriously under estimating the fans and the board while I''m saying it as it is!

[flecky76 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Sorry City 1st. I''m interested in your reply but not sure what you are advocating. A move to a new ground or no change to the Carra?

With regards to other negative replies regarding moving to a new ground, my probable vote to move is based purely on a personal point of view. Whilst I am one of the older contributors to this board I simply will not be prepared to leave Bury any earlier than I do now just to get a parking place. If we increase the Carra to 35k I doubt whether I would prepared to camp out the night before!!

I should add that other than my football playing days many in the Norwich area, I have missed very few games home or away.[/quote]

What''s wrong with parking up at Postwick park and ride and getting dropped off the bus along Carrow road? Simples.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="flecky76"][quote user="Bury Yellow"]Sorry City 1st. I''m interested in your reply but not sure what you are advocating. A move to a new ground or no change to the Carra? With regards to other negative replies regarding moving to a new ground, my probable vote to move is based purely on a personal point of view. Whilst I am one of the older contributors to this board I simply will not be prepared to leave Bury any earlier than I do now just to get a parking place. If we increase the Carra to 35k I doubt whether I would prepared to camp out the night before!! I should add that other than my football playing days many in the Norwich area, I have missed very few games home or away.[/quote] What''s wrong with parking up at Postwick park and ride and getting dropped off the bus along Carrow road? Simples.[/quote]

Lets face it Car parking is not the problem really is it, there are a number of places to park and quite reasonable too, the park and ride is, will be the most favoured if we increase, but not many clubs provide wide range of parking near the ground, So its either get into the city early or catch the train or bus, but have to say I have never found it hard to park.   

[Bill 1,788]

Oh dear mr roeder, you have rather tied yourself up in knots on this one or "I''m saying it as it is" as you would have.

Perhaps in your muddled mind that''s how it is. Some folk think they are Napoleon, that''s ''as it is'' with them.

I''m not too sure which part of ''as prices rise so demand falls off'' you are unable to grasp. As with the food/drink and casual tickets prices have risen to what the market will bear. Why you think that somehow season tickets will magically be spared this basic tenet of marketing only you in your confused state will know.

You already accept that other clubs have had to reduce prices to maintain demand. We did the same with ''kids for a quid'' and do so for League Cup games. Conversely those rises will have a downward effect on demand.

Perhaps for you that is riddles. Perhaps in your confused state this is all too much ''grown up'' thinking. If not then maybe ponder on the thought that the same income can be achieved by increasing the ticket price by a quarter with no more than as said before, a few taps on the keyboard. Consider that if you strip out the costs and long term payments on a new stand that increase may only need to be 15%.

Also consider that, as you even accept our league status is not guaranteed, how much easier is it to adjust the price to meet any change in status and consequent demand than it is to meet the constant demand of loan repayments on the stand.

Talk to anyone in marketing dealing with price and they will tell you that is "as it is".

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Do you hate everyone City1st?

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Quite simple,

While we''re in the top flight we could do with a 35,000 ground. If we don''t stay in the top flight for an extended run of seasons then we won''t be increasing capacity!

The prices of season tickets will go up next season if we stay up, obviously and I think the board are sensible enough to not hike the prices too much!

Thats plain and simple with no riddles!

Oh yeah, I''m not Napolean!

Great win today in front of another sell out - nearly 26,800!

[Bill 1,788]

"While we''re in the top flight we could do with a 35,000 ground2

why ?

Even simpler, increase the admission price

No long term debt that has to be serviced, irrespective of which league we are in

No loss of income from losing 4000 or so seats in the Main Stand - nor any grief from finding somewhere to locate them

"I think the board are sensible enough to not hike the prices too much! "

What''s too much ? Why would it be too much ? Prices don''t affect attendances, do they ?

[blahblahblah 2]

Hi Mr c,

Lovely new stand, or lovely new players, which one would you go for ?

[BigManInTheBarclay 75]

Wouldn''t any new stand/building be done in the off-season? If everything is sorted would 3 months be enough though? (it would also mean no pre-season home games)Also....I''m guessing some sort of deal could be done with the retail units near the statium to use thier car parks if we do get a 30k+ capacity increase.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Blah, the only element of ground redevopment i`ve criticised in the past was the community infill, which was poorly timed considering that at the time we could only afford to buy a defender to play up front (Doherty). If you are trying to rake up the old off-field/on-field spend argument i suggest you look at the myriad statements by the new board that they have been prioritising football over "peripheral activities". It really couldn`t be any clearer. We`ve even gone from being a selling club to a buying club when your side of the argument defended the previous boards asset-stripping of our football team by stating that City were a selling club and always would be..... As for the timing of the new stand- i trust that the board will ensure we are in the strongest possible position on the football side before going ahead with it. It is rather nice to have a board in whose judgement you can trust don`t you think....?

[QHcanary 0]

[quote]Do you hate everyone City1st?[/quote]It''d be easy to think that, wouldn''t it?My two penn''orth.Football comes first, No question, but if we maintain our prem status and look like we''re going to hang around for a few years then why wouldn''t we want to expand?Assuming we''re debt free in the future, then expansion can only have a positive effect IMO. How much more intimidating for away teams are big grounds full of home fans? Old Trafford, The Emirates, The Bernabeu. These are all places that have huge crowds week in week out, and that plays a part in the results you see there. I''m not making comparisons here, but the effect of huge home support is not hard to see.If we really want to push on and achieve something as a football club then expanding the ground is a logical part of that transition, after building the squad and getting ourselves financially secure. Yes, we''d probably be in debt if we built a new stand, but as long as we maintain prem status the cost of servicing that debt wouldn''t be prohibitive.