PL - Sort out the defence

[canaryfan68 0]

Having been to the game today at Villa Park, our achilles has to be our defending.

We create many chances and are scoring more than expected but when we give teams easy goals like we did today we don''t do ourselves any favours.

Our defence has to start to learn very quickly the basics and not repeating the same mistakes.

Barnett creates too many problems for himself and Ruddy has to be more commanding of his defence. What I''d do for another Steve Bruce or someone who commands the defence....time will tell.

[ZLF 271]

and having just seen the game again there is not one defender who has not contributed to a poor display, naughton, martin and tierney should take nearly as much blame as barnett.

A lto of credit to agbonlahor & bent - they were great, but martin doing air headers, being muscled off the ball, tierney chasing shadows and ball watching again as bent strolls past him shows why we have conceded so many goal already this season.

It was our achilles heel last season and last time in the prem, it needs sorting now.

[canaryfan68 0]

Zipper I totally agree the whole defence was problematic today and also we came up against a good strike force.

My point I was making was if we concede goals (which we will) we need to make sure our opponents have had to work for their advantage.Today I felt we handed too much on plate to them.

Would also like to see a leader in the defence, who keeps players on their toes if they''re not cutting the mustard.

Could we not tempt Tony Adams or someone of his class out of retirement..or just organise the defence?lol

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

In the transfer window I would go for a CB and another) and CM just to hot competition for places up

[Robert N. LiM 4,227]

Let''s keep it in perspective. At the start of the season, who would have picked Martin and Barnett as our first choice central defensive partnership?

I think it''s a wonder we have coped as well as we have without Ward, Whitbread and Ayala.

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

I am not sure how far Ward, Whitbread and Ayala are away? I think Whitbread will be a great asset when he is back. Ward will also be but strikes me to get more nervous than perhaps the others? I cant really comment on Ayala - only saw him after that screamer against MK Dons but every one was pretty dire that day...

I am sure PL knows where he needs strengthening and he has already said he has his eye on some people.

I am pretty sure Barnett would have learnt pretty quick after that game yesterday. Its a shame because in some games this season he has been superb.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Our defence were outpaced and outmuscled by Villa yesterday!

 

The fullbacks are doing their job but the CB positions need strengthening. Russell Martin has done admirably playing out of position but its becoming obvious that if he plays long term at CB then his lack of height, pace and at times strength will cost us goals.

 

But worryingly Martin has done better than De Laet and Whitbread did before, mainly making less mistakes. De Laet makes too many mistakes and isn''t strong enough in the air, though I think he''ll be a good back up RB. Whitbread also made mistakes, his lack of pace is suspect and he is very injury prone. Ward hasn''t been seen this season and I''ve got doubts with his lack of pace and lack of coolness under pressure being good enough for the Premiership.

 

Ayalas brief appearances show he''ll take time to adjust and be good enough!

 

 

I think in January buying a capable CB is a neccesity!  

[Gingerpele 0]

I don''t think Lambert knows how....

Under Lambert has our defence ever been that solid? I think it might be his weak link as a manager. Maybe its because we have 3 out of our 5 CBs injured, maybe Lambert thought these players would cope better in this league.

But something is very wrong, we are conceding every game, wether thats down to individuals or the defence as a whole, or a lack of midfield support. It needs to be identified and stamped out. I know the promoted sides are mostly going to concede lots, but there needs to be a period if only 2/3 games when we don''t concede, even if that means a couple of 0-0 draws, I think that will give the defence a bit more confidence, knowing they can keep clean sheets. As pretty much every game we are seeing mistakes that lead to goals, or very good opportunities. I suppose you can look at every goal and say the defence could have done better, but so many of our goals conceded seem to be blatant mistakes/poor defending that should have been defended better, not just could.

Someone (maybe more than one) posted on here at some point, not sure if it was before the season started or a couple of games in, saying we would never keep a clean sheet, and to be honest at the moment i''m thinking the same.

So many goals we have conceded that should have been avoided, penalty at Wigan was a De Laet mistake giving the ball away (Don''t think it was a penalty though), Stoke given 20+ mins to just swing the ball into our box was asking to concede, Chelsea''s 3rd was easily avoidable, second one maybe as well. Bolton, Sunderland and Swansea all allowed to get a goal, when we were playing way better (I was going to say in control, but at least in Swansea''s case they had more possession, they just didn''t attack), ''let'' Man.U take advantage after playing so well for the first hour or so, on another day Pilks would have scored and who knows what would have happened... And Liverpool had around 20 chances didn''t they? Obviously you expect them to have lots of chances at home, but they really should have won that game by 3/4 goals, It was a mixture of poor finishing and good goal keeping really. And then conceding 3 goals two games in a row, Blackburn should have never scored 3 against us, bottom of the league fans want the manager sacked can''t win to save their lives, yet we give them a 3-1 lead. Villa would probably like to think their good enough to put 3 past us, but its something we should really be trying to avoid on the road.

It would be nice just to not concede, I don''t even care if the game ends 0-0. We just need better defensive performances.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I don''t think Lambert knows how.... Under Lambert has our defence ever been that solid? I think it might be his weak link as a manager. Maybe its because we have 3 out of our 5 CBs injured, maybe Lambert thought these players would cope better in this league. But something is very wrong, we are conceding every game, wether thats down to individuals or the defence as a whole, or a lack of midfield support. It needs to be identified and stamped out. I know the promoted sides are mostly going to concede lots, but there needs to be a period if only 2/3 games when we don''t concede, even if that means a couple of 0-0 draws, I think that will give the defence a bit more confidence, knowing they can keep clean sheets. As pretty much every game we are seeing mistakes that lead to goals, or very good opportunities. I suppose you can look at every goal and say the defence could have done better, but so many of our goals conceded seem to be blatant mistakes/poor defending that should have been defended better, not just could. Someone (maybe more than one) posted on here at some point, not sure if it was before the season started or a couple of games in, saying we would never keep a clean sheet, and to be honest at the moment i''m thinking the same. So many goals we have conceded that should have been avoided, penalty at Wigan was a De Laet mistake giving the ball away (Don''t think it was a penalty though), Stoke given 20+ mins to just swing the ball into our box was asking to concede, Chelsea''s 3rd was easily avoidable, second one maybe as well. Bolton, Sunderland and Swansea all allowed to get a goal, when we were playing way better (I was going to say in control, but at least in Swansea''s case they had more possession, they just didn''t attack), ''let'' Man.U take advantage after playing so well for the first hour or so, on another day Pilks would have scored and who knows what would have happened... And Liverpool had around 20 chances didn''t they? Obviously you expect them to have lots of chances at home, but they really should have won that game by 3/4 goals, It was a mixture of poor finishing and good goal keeping really. And then conceding 3 goals two games in a row, Blackburn should have never scored 3 against us, bottom of the league fans want the manager sacked can''t win to save their lives, yet we give them a 3-1 lead. Villa would probably like to think their good enough to put 3 past us, but its something we should really be trying to avoid on the road. It would be nice just to not concede, I don''t even care if the game ends 0-0. We just need better defensive performances.[/quote]

Interesting points there and fully agree, my thoughts are if Lambert has players in mind for January window, are they going to be lower league players again just to ballance the books ?or does he throw caution to the wind and try his luck bringing or try to bring in big named players, At this moment in time I can only see us fighting to avoid the drop.

[Gingerpele 0]

Probably with getting in new defenders. Is we already have loads. And we have our 2 loans, so we probably have to get rid of someone at least, who will that be?

Maybe Ward? When was the last time Lambert gave us an update on Ward? I remember reading on BBC before the WBA game, that Ward would be fit after the international break, that was 2 months ago. And I thought when he was originally injured it was mean''t to be for about the same amount of time as Vaughan.

Whitbread, is he going to go through another period of being constantly injured? HE took ages to come back from injury last time and its looking like a similar story now. And Ayala i know his injury was fairly serious, so not expecting him back soon.

These players, have essentially let us down. I know its not their fault, they didn''t ask to get injured. And i''m sure they are doing everything possible to get fit as quickly as they can. But having to convert your Championship right back, into a premiership centre back, shows your getting desperate.

We need something to change at the back, I hope if Lambert is looking to strengthen the back line, he''s not going to stick with his ''Young and hungry'' strategy, he bought Wilbraham, he''s not young... I wouldn''t really know who to recommend, but someone with that elusive ''premiership experience'' may be needed to keep us up.

We might not get any points from our next 3 games, Arsenal at home will be really tough unless RVP gets injured, QPR will probably be really trying to beat us. Man.C away is seemingly an impossible prospect. Then the so far unbeaten Newcastle at home, away to Everton and Wolves which we may get 1-4 points from, home to another top team in Spurs, and then Fulham on new years eve. To be honest, (and this is very pessimistic for me) I would be very surprised if we get more than 2 wins from those games, and probably only a couple of draws along the way as well...

I really hope we up our performance a bit, or we could start to slide down the table...

[swjf50 0]

I''m worried about the pace of Arsenal and what they might do to us if we defend like we did against Aston Villa.

Its time for a change at the back. Possibly bring back De Lait for Martin or Barnett. I just hope De Lait has learned his lesson and is able to cut out the costly mistakes. If he''s able to do that, he''ll be a great acquisition, if not it''s back to square one.

 

[Alejandra 0]

would you rather a good defence and be in the bottom 3 due to terrific strikes from the other team, or top half of the league with only 2 out of 5 centre halfs fit and readywe are not in the bottom 3 so I don''t see the problem

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I don''t think Lambert knows how.... Under Lambert has our defence ever been that solid? I think it might be his weak link as a manager. Maybe its because we have 3 out of our 5 CBs injured, maybe Lambert thought these players would cope better in this league. But something is very wrong, we are conceding every game, wether thats down to individuals or the defence as a whole, or a lack of midfield support. It needs to be identified and stamped out. I know the promoted sides are mostly going to concede lots, but there needs to be a period if only 2/3 games when we don''t concede, even if that means a couple of 0-0 draws, I think that will give the defence a bit more confidence, knowing they can keep clean sheets. As pretty much every game we are seeing mistakes that lead to goals, or very good opportunities. I suppose you can look at every goal and say the defence could have done better, but so many of our goals conceded seem to be blatant mistakes/poor defending that should have been defended better, not just could. Someone (maybe more than one) posted on here at some point, not sure if it was before the season started or a couple of games in, saying we would never keep a clean sheet, and to be honest at the moment i''m thinking the same. So many goals we have conceded that should have been avoided, penalty at Wigan was a De Laet mistake giving the ball away (Don''t think it was a penalty though), Stoke given 20+ mins to just swing the ball into our box was asking to concede, Chelsea''s 3rd was easily avoidable, second one maybe as well. Bolton, Sunderland and Swansea all allowed to get a goal, when we were playing way better (I was going to say in control, but at least in Swansea''s case they had more possession, they just didn''t attack), ''let'' Man.U take advantage after playing so well for the first hour or so, on another day Pilks would have scored and who knows what would have happened... And Liverpool had around 20 chances didn''t they? Obviously you expect them to have lots of chances at home, but they really should have won that game by 3/4 goals, It was a mixture of poor finishing and good goal keeping really. And then conceding 3 goals two games in a row, Blackburn should have never scored 3 against us, bottom of the league fans want the manager sacked can''t win to save their lives, yet we give them a 3-1 lead. Villa would probably like to think their good enough to put 3 past us, but its something we should really be trying to avoid on the road. It would be nice just to not concede, I don''t even care if the game ends 0-0. We just need better defensive performances.[/quote]..............correct me if i am wrong but isn''t culverhouse on the management team, one of the best defenders to ever wear a canary shirt. surele he is the one responsible for sorting out defensive frailties.

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Probably with getting in new defenders. Is we already have loads. And we have our 2 loans, so we probably have to get rid of someone at least, who will that be? Maybe Ward? When was the last time Lambert gave us an update on Ward? I remember reading on BBC before the WBA game, that Ward would be fit after the international break, that was 2 months ago. And I thought when he was originally injured it was mean''t to be for about the same amount of time as Vaughan. Whitbread, is he going to go through another period of being constantly injured? HE took ages to come back from injury last time and its looking like a similar story now. And Ayala i know his injury was fairly serious, so not expecting him back soon. These players, have essentially let us down. I know its not their fault, they didn''t ask to get injured. And i''m sure they are doing everything possible to get fit as quickly as they can. But having to convert your Championship right back, into a premiership centre back, shows your getting desperate. We need something to change at the back, I hope if Lambert is looking to strengthen the back line, he''s not going to stick with his ''Young and hungry'' strategy, he bought Wilbraham, he''s not young... I wouldn''t really know who to recommend, but someone with that elusive ''premiership experience'' may be needed to keep us up. We might not get any points from our next 3 games, Arsenal at home will be really tough unless RVP gets injured, QPR will probably be really trying to beat us. Man.C away is seemingly an impossible prospect. Then the so far unbeaten Newcastle at home, away to Everton and Wolves which we may get 1-4 points from, home to another top team in Spurs, and then Fulham on new years eve. To be honest, (and this is very pessimistic for me) I would be very surprised if we get more than 2 wins from those games, and probably only a couple of draws along the way as well... I really hope we up our performance a bit, or we could start to slide down the table...[/quote].............. are you sure about this?

[star_manic 0]

QPR probably trying to beat us i mean. surely not, so unsporting.

[2Cakes 0]

I''m not so sure that it is only a problem in defense. Yesterday it seemed like we were continually victims to counter attacks. Yes this was due in part to a lack of pace in defense, but also our attacking play yesterday seemed to revolve too much around attacking in numbers. There seemed to be a lack of individual creativity and little movement off the ball. This together with an annoying trait of giving the ball away carelessly left us vulnerable at the back.We lacked someone who could chase and win balls put behind the Villa defense. There just wasn''t enough variation for me.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

A defence which cost a combined £700k, virtually no international or Prem experience, with a right-back at CB because of several serious injuries, occasionally get made monkeys of by top seasoned international attackers...... Obviously absolutely disgraceful.