Hoolahan needs dropping...

[kick it off 1,948]

Surprised no-one else has mentioned this...Yesterday he was absolutely shocking. That boy has come so far under Lambert, and developed into a really complete player...

Yesterday though, he reverted to type and consistently lost the ball through trying to take on the entire villa time, decided to try and skin the same player twice despite having the option to play others clean through and lost it, and then he could not be bothered to defend - even when he''d just got tackled he was ambling back barely above walking pace.

Say what you like about his creativity, or it being the fact he played CM instead of the free role, but it had nothing to do with position, he just didn''t care and couldn''t be bothered yesterday, his attitude was terrible and his performance even worse.

For the first time in a few years I can see exactly why Trappatoni doesn''t bother with him - on his day he is a game-changer, when it''s not his day he is a liability.

Maybe a few games on the sidelines would get him interested again (maybe Houdini Martin can fill in that position)...

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Everyone''s entitled to their opinion but if you''re right and he "didn''t care" and "couldn''t be bothered" then I doubt Lambert will pick him again. I haven''t seen this in any player since Lambert took over. That''s a hell of an accusation to level at any pro footballer.

 

 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Hasn''t Hoolahan always been like this?

 

For me hes one of our best players, though hes no perfect like god like some make out. The reason we''ve been playing with one strikers, two wingers and Hoolahan was to accomodate the most effective players although Holt was the one effective player to miss out.

 

Hoolahan was left out earlier this season cause he didn''t fit the formation which proved not right. Lamberts worked out you have to play your best players and work out formations around them. He is much more effective than the lightweight Surman and the not good enough Chris Martin! 

 

While Hoolahan has his off moments, the positive aspects far outweigh the negative ones!

[Gingerpele 0]

He needed taking off in that game then, not dropping.

He''s our best player, if he''s having a bad day take him off. Don''t drop him in the next game.

Anyone who''s having an off day is a liability, why are you picking on Hoolahan, it makes no sense what so ever....

[TIL 1010 4,721]

Unfortunately yesterday his performance was very uncharacteristic of recent times and i described him as more messy than messi.

[kick it off 1,948]

Yeah maybe you''re right GRD - but he was not only ineffective yesterday, he was actually detrimental to the team! He lost it countless times and made a decent pass twice in the game by my estimation!

And Nutty, if you have been watching him recently, should he lose the ball he always tries to win it back, and often he tracks back - thats what Lambo has added to his game, and why he fits in the team - yesterday he did nothing, except run into tackles, there was one on halfway line where he got tackled, Villa had basically a 4 vs 4 situation and Hooly literally just jogged after the tackler, making no attempt to catch up etc.

It is no coincidence that when Hooly went off for Fox we immediately became a far better team and played the best football we had all game. Fox was superb yesterday btw.

Maybe GRD is right and dropping him is too severe but Lambert needs to give him a rocket in that case cuz he was the worst player on the park imo yesterday (even Naughton who got run ragged was actually trying!)

[kick it off 1,948]

LOL - Unfairly picking on Wes? Yeah right. Everybody else tried yesterday, he didnt - that makes him fair game in my book - he is not immune to criticism just because he CAN BE our best player.

[Gingerpele 0]

Maybe he was carrying a knock?

He can''t have just changed over night, there must have been something wrong for him to perform like that...

[Gingerpele 0]

I mean''t about the dropping him part.

The whole defence deserves to be dropped before Hoolahan, one poor game doesn''t mean you deserve to get dropped.

[smooth 114]

I will admit I am very harsh, on no doubt one of our most creative players. I have commented that I did not think he had a good game.

As you say losing the ball and neglecting the control you need at a central midfielder as he tracked midfielders across the field was very clear. Again he was asked to do a role where he is uncomfortable, wide left he is better but I do believe we have to accomodate him.

I do believe that he needs to be doing more in that final third as a goal scoring threat when he plays in the 4-5-1. He has left Morison isolated and very rarely created a genuine chance for him. Whereas Morison, in the last three games, has flicked on the ball onto him and created chances.

I am harsh on hoolahan and always have been as I have found it difficult to see where he fits into a first team 11. Because he is built up but never, for me, has he been ''box office'', stand out and outshone every other player on the field. For example Agbonlahor was exceptional yesterday and looked a different league.

These comments are hyper critical of a player that offers so much, but I often think he offers it without being able to produce it. But again he has stepped up a division, like so many others.

All our players have stepped up this year and all are playing above themselves, but there are very few that at the start of the season premiership teams would have looked to purchase.

I certainly feel we have some who will be looked at, whichever division you are in. Do I believe Hoolahan will be one of them? Possibly not.

Pacheco and Lansbury were two players similar but for me Lansbury had more drive and potential to become a player that premiership teams will be tripping up to pick up. Pacheco I also feel was more polished and capable of producing the potential at a high level. Hoolahan maybe not at that level, but again I am being hyper critical.

I could see a midfield with Benno, Pilky, Johnson, Fox and Crofts (could fit in if we wanted just one creative wide man) with two forwards upfront.

But again we have options this year with different players, unlike years past.

[kick it off 1,948]

I agree that it''s the defence really costing us at the moment, that was the problem with Wes giving it away yesterday - I don''t usually care if he gives it away but yesterday he did it in bloody stupid situations that let Villa break at us with pace time and again... You''re right I guess, maybe he was carrying a knock or similar which made him appear disinterested with not tracking back etc but it didnt seem to affect him too much when he kept trying to skin the Villa team!!

I seem to have been outvoted on consensus of dropping him though, so Il retract it, but Lambo does need to give him a rocket if he wasn''t carrying a knock.

[canaryfan68 0]

Wes is a creative player and yesterday''s midfield needed more of a physical element. If Wes doesn''t perform creatively we are one done in our midfield as he doesn''t bring that physical element to the midfield.

Yesterday he consistently lost the ball by either sloppy passing or just taking too long. PL should have taken him off earlier as he was in no-mans land in the game, that wasn''t the right game for him.We should have kept Bennett on and taken off Wes.

Lastly Wes is a good player but he needs to bring more to the Premiership.

[kick it off 1,948]

I do agree with Smooth on the the basis of performances yesterday - Crofts deserves a place in the team as does Fox.

Could Crofts fill the Wes role? Who knows but he was decent there last year when playing as the attacking mid, might be worth giving him a shot.

[smooth 114]

The worst thing was when we had a potential break where we were 3 against 2 in the second half after some clever play. But he lost it.

The one player you would want on the ball in that situation was hoolahan to pick out Holt and Morison.

I wonder if he is aware of the pressure on everything going through him. I would have no problem in dropping him.

Against Arsenal a 4 man midfield of Crofts, Fox, Johnson and Pilky would be ideal with two forwards, for me.

As I mention we have options this year and I don''t think we have to say he is a guaranteed starter. I still think Holt is going to have the impact and disrupt many centre halves this year. He is our Kevin Davies and hence can have the same impact of 8-10 goals and plenty of assists directly or indirectly (by being a presence in the box and causing errors by defenders).

But I can see why he is not an automatic starter for the national team. But Hoolahan can have impact this year for our team. But at times he flatters to decieve, again hype critical of a good talent.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Totally unfair kick it off.

Fine, he may have had an off day but to question his commitment betrays severe ignorance on your part.

[kick it off 1,948]

Ummm Cantiaci - I said yesterday he didn''t look interested, if you were there you would have seen the exact same thing. I haven''t questioned his loyalty, or ability merely said that yesterday he looked like he couldn''t be bothered.

The inability to correctly word simply worded posts betrays sever ignorance on your part...

[kick it off 1,948]

** correctly read lol.

I''m not saying Hoolahan doesn''t give a s**t about NCFC - just that he refused to show he was committed yesterday by not tracking back, and playing the team game and retaining possession when we needed to.

[kick it off 1,948]

** severE.

[YellowBlood 0]

What a joke, someone has one bad game and the automatic assumption is he has to be dropped, it was the same when Holt had an off day against West Brom, not good enough , wasn''t putting in 100% etc. Do you seriously think Hoolahan wasn''t bothered yesterday? I''m one of Wes'' biggest fans and I even said it myself, he''s having a poor game he keeps giving it away and i''ll also admit we looked better when Jackson came on for him, but at the end of the day everyone has an off day, it''s part of being a professional, you can''t play amazing every game, even Messi and Ronaldo have off days.

[star_manic 0]

i think it comes back to fact that wes is unable to play a full part of a flat 4 man midfield. it''s just not his game. in a 5 man midfield or the diamond he is much more in his element. having said that, he was terrible yesterday.

[kick it off 1,948]

CityLegends - I have no problem with a player having an off day - but everytime Holt got tackled and lost the ball vs WBA he chased it and looked annoyed he''d lost it, Wes didn''t yesterday and he normally does, he was woeful yesterday but instead of fighting like the rest of the team, he looked like he''d accepted our fate - take your fanboy glasses off and look at it objectively... Holt was dropped after WBA so I don''t see your argument there anyway btw...

[smooth 114]

CityLegends, I think he is bothered. Will always remember his reaction follwoign the penalty miss against preston and the way he ran down the tunnel (hence I''m not sure I want him still to take a penalty for us). But I also don''t think he has been exceptional in the role we have asked for him to play.

I will admit I was asking for Hoolahan to start after the wba game. As during that game we struggled to get going until he played wide left.

Since he has played in this 4-5-1, still won''t call it 4-2-3-1, he has proved his abilities in defending and leading the midfield. But he has not supported the lone striker in the way the role needs him too. It has been disappointing, he has been no goal threat and therefore we are having a 5 man midfield who can sit in front of our back four and be hard to break down. That was upto the Blackburn game where we had a huge space between the banks of 4 and 5.

So for me it would be dropping a player, who has not performed in other games in the role we really need him to do when in that role. Yes I think some others have been weak.

But I do prefer a 4-4-2 and if hoolahan is not dictating play and performing then I can see the 4-4-2 being played.

I have shown how it can be with a slightly more different and defensive but I can see an attacking one with hooly on the left and Pilky on the right. It can work, but against Arsenal I would start with Pilky and three defensive midfielders with two engines Crofts and Johnson and Fox to pick up and dictate our play.

So I believe he hasn''t done enough in the last few games, as a goal scoring threat or a creator of opportunities. He has moved the ball around and been an outlet for midfield but that is only half the role of the player behind the lone striker.

If you have seen him put balls thro, shots on target, cross to the striker or make a run beyond the centre halves then great, but I haven''t, Yet. Again it is being critical, but constructive criticism is what is needed and it is being very picky on a good player. But in this league you need to be.

[YellowBlood 0]

But I doubt he wasn''t fighting or he''d accepted our fate, possibly tired or carrying a knock. If he accepted our fate then Lambert would have ushered him off a lot earlier than he did. We can point out where we think he went wrong but the man himself will know more than most and he''ll learn from it. And if Lambert shares the same opinion as you kick it off then I''m sure he''ll be out of the team sharpish. Regarding Holt I realise he was dropped after WBA and I''m not pointing it at you in particular kick it off, it was the general consensus on this board after that game, that he couldn''t cut it in the Premier and that he was too slow etc. That was after scoring and arguably being our best player at Stamford Bridge and he''s obviously since gone on to score at Anfield. The same consensus seems to be the case with Wes now.

[Alejandra 0]

you dont want to go down the roeder path and drop a player and his confidence because of one bad game, it''s not like there is an abundance of talented players waiting to fill his role at the club, he''s looked pretty good stepping up from each league so far although it''s harder to shine when your in the premier league

[YellowBlood 0]

I wouldn''t disagree with any of that, and it is no doubt true that you need to be critical in this league 100% and there is nothing there that is unfair. Tbh it wouldn''t surprise me if we went with a flat midfield four against Arsenal, with Wes on the bench because I feel against a side like Arsenal, we''d look more open with Wes in the team. We''d then need Johnson and Crofts/Fox dictating our play and denying Arteta and Ramsey any space to dictate theres because with our back four the way it is, we''ll concede at least 3 the form Van Persie is in.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="kick it off"]Surprised no-one else has mentioned this...Yesterday he was absolutely shocking. That boy has come so far under Lambert, and developed into a really complete player... Yesterday though, he reverted to type and consistently lost the ball through trying to take on the entire villa time, decided to try and skin the same player twice despite having the option to play others clean through and lost it, and then he could not be bothered to defend - even when he''d just got tackled he was ambling back barely above walking pace. Say what you like about his creativity, or it being the fact he played CM instead of the free role, but it had nothing to do with position, he just didn''t care and couldn''t be bothered yesterday, his attitude was terrible and his performance even worse. For the first time in a few years I can see exactly why Trappatoni doesn''t bother with him - on his day he is a game-changer, when it''s not his day he is a liability. Maybe a few games on the sidelines would get him interested again (maybe Houdini Martin can fill in that position)...[/quote]

This is basically the post of someone who has been desperately waiting to have a pop at Wes.

 

I bet you''d never create a thread praising Wes up when he''s had another one of his many good games but the minute you think he''s had a bad game and you''ve got a chance to slate him...there it is.

 

Whether Wes had a good game or not yesterday your post is a load of tosh.

[JF 694]

In my opinion if we are to play 2 up front then Hoolahan should be played left mid and Pilkinton right mid leaving Bennett out of the team. For me Bennett has been a bit disappointing, Tracks back pretty well but I thought his forward play would bring more options to the team than it actually does.

[Aggy 752]

Opening poster, half of your posts are saying that normally Hoolahan does track back, does look interested and does put the effort in etc. etc.

If that''s the case, why would you punish him for one bad performance? If the rule is one bad performance and you''re out, we''d not have any defenders left to pick!

[Clint 221]

I don''t see how Fox was superb yesterday either.He came on and played the ball around nicely but the fact that that changed the game was more due to Lambo getting his selection wrong in the first place, rather than Fox being superb when he came.  His free kicks, corners and balls into the box were awful when we had a lot of pressure towards the end of the game - I think Villa even counter-attacked from one hopeless Fox ball into the box!Definately a starter next match but to say he was superb yesterday is a bit dreamland!

[Mr. Bump 0]

I''m a big fan of his but he had a poor game yesterday. Saying that, he was great against Blackburn. I think dropping our best player against Arsenal would be a huge mistake. I''m sure Lambert will make sure his attitude is right and hopefully he''ll play against Arsenal but not as a centre mid.