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Time to give De laet another go?

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Agbonlahor was on fire on sat, and bent is a class striker thats for sure; but as Lambert pointed out we gave them a hand on sat. From my point of view its we gave the opposition a hand - again.

Naughton did have a tough time, bt agbon only beat anyone 4 times all match - and at least one of them was Barnett. Agbon had a great game and being beaten by movement or skill is not something we should be criticising players for.

However leaving passes short, getting caught out of position or failing to read the game is; and as several have pointed out our back 4 was on sat, with Barnett Martin and Tierney all guilty.

We looked (and esp Barnett) looked far better once Fox was back on the pitch. 4-2-3-1is our best team formation. But I would also look to give de laet a go against Van Persie (whoever is up against Van P is in for a torrid time) but I would feel better witha Barnett De Laet pairing than with Martin playing.

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Good post ZLF.I had high hopes for DL early this season and feel he has paid a very high price for some early season jitters from himself the team as a whole and lets be honest the referee too. At the end of the day it was plain to see he is a class act and very pacy with it and a real "goalkeepers defender". I too would like to see him back in for the Arsenal game and agree that RM has to be the one to make way with Barnett keeping his place based on credit accrued in the previous 2-3 games prior to villa.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The only thing Ruddy did wrong was not to bollock Barnett for such a crap backpass![/quote]

He didn''t bollock him because he knew he should have done better with it.

 

He wasn''t brave enough and I think that''s the general opinion of most neutrals.

 

That''s the kind of situation where you''d normally end up expecting to see a ''keeper praised for his bravery because he''d have gone in knowing he could get a kick around the head. The whole way Ruddy approached that ball showed he was not keen on taking a clattering.

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After playing in goal for thirty years at various levels I would have expected better with a straightforward back pass than that which was given by Barnett.

Bravery by a goalkeeper is usually brought about from open and good play by the oposition where you try to anticipate their best. You do not expect to be put into that situation from one of your own defenders who showed his worst.

The starting position of Ruddy was very good, still allowing for a huge margin of error for the back pass but obviously he was not expecting anything as bad as that.

Perhaps he could have done better but I think Agbonlahor is as aware and as quick as most in the Premiership, he doesn''t need a helping hand, and that was what he was given!

Why are you concentrating on a perceived error by the goalkeeper and ignoring the blatant error by the defender?

 

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]

After playing in goal for thirty years at various levels I would have expected better with a straightforward back pass than that which was given by Barnett.

Bravery by a goalkeeper is usually brought about from open and good play by the oposition where you try to anticipate their best. You do not expect to be put into that situation from one of your own defenders who showed his worst.

The starting position of Ruddy was very good, still allowing for a huge margin of error for the back pass but obviously he was not expecting anything as bad as that.

Perhaps he could have done better but I think Agbonlahor is as aware and as quick as most in the Premiership, he doesn''t need a helping hand, and that was what he was given!

Why are you concentrating on a perceived error by the goalkeeper and ignoring the blatant error by the defender?

 

[/quote]

I agree, Ruddy took up a good starting position because he had read that Leon was going to attempt the pass back to him. Though perhaps you could have argued that he should have made it clear to Leon the ball had to go into the stands.

 

Considering you played for 30 years I think it''s pretty naive of you to suggest that you don''t expect a bad ball back to you from your defender. Didn''t you learn in 30 years of football that you don''t always get the perfect pass from your colleagues?

 

That''s what football is all about. You''ve always got to be on your toes and anticipate what might happen, not just what you want to happen.

 

It was a bad ball from Leon but not a hopeless one. Ruddy could have done better with it, which also seems to be the general view of many neutrals.

 

I don''t actually see the need to make such a big issue out of it anyway. There wasn''t such a big out cry when Ruddy left that massive great big hole at his near post for Yakubu to shoot into. We just moved on from it. The same should happen here. I just think it''s unfair that this image has been created of Leon playing a hopeless ball back to the goalkeeper because it wasn''t hopeless, it just wasn''t ideal. 

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The only thing Ruddy did wrong was not to bollock Barnett for such a crap backpass![/quote]

He didn''t bollock him because he knew he should have done better with it.

 

He wasn''t brave enough and I think that''s the general opinion of most neutrals.

 

That''s the kind of situation where you''d normally end up expecting to see a ''keeper praised for his bravery because he''d have gone in knowing he could get a kick around the head. The whole way Ruddy approached that ball showed he was not keen on taking a clattering.

[/quote]

 

His effort was a bit weak, but I think he was more concerned with being sent off, as he was before, than showing a lack of bravery. A lot of these Premiership players are ballerinas once touched by a goalkeeper in such one on one situations. Not only would he have given a penalty away but he would  have been suspended again.

 

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I think there''s four components to this leaky defence issue :

1) Stating the obvious, we''re playing week in, week out against top-class players. Most teams we''ve played against have at least one genuine quality striker in the team, and our defence is - understandably - finding that a lot harder to deal with than what we were used to in the Championship/L1.

2) Barnett. I think the stick he''s coming in for is understandable - He does appear to be the one making the most errors. However, he''s also made a lot of very important clearances and blocks. Part of the reason Barnett is the one screwing up is that he''s being left too exposed at times by Martin - It''s Barnett who''s often providing the last line of defence when Martin fails to cover. De Laet, in the first few games, was playing deeper and taking on that role of being the one to drop back and try to get in the way of an attack if the rest of the defence failed to stop the forwards breaking through - I think Richie is better at that, and I think a Barnett-De Laet pairing will work much more effectively in central defence.

3) Martin. I know there''s a lot of love for him on here, and I know he''s had some good games and worked incredibly hard, and I know he''s a good guy who exemplifies the team spirit of Norwich and blah blah blah. But he''s also primarily a right-back, not a centre-back. And he''s not even our best right-back, in terms of raw talent - Naughton and arguably De Laet are better in that position. Martin is a key player in the team and a great, versatile option as cover - but I''m concerned that he''s being picked as first choice in the centre of defence, which is not his best position. Martin has been looking a little tired in the latter half of games, and he doesn''t have as much experience in the middle to correctly clear the danger, and sometimes gets found out - as shown against Villa - which leaves Barnett more exposed than he should be. I''d argue it''s Martin, not Barnett, who needs to be dropped to the bench against Arsenal.

4) Ruddy. He''s done well, and he''s deservedly getting his chance in the top flight - However, he''s still not up to speed. He''s made too many errors this season which a better ''keeper would not have made. Yes, had the defence done its job properly then he wouldn''t have been called upon on many of these occasions - but sadly when he has been called upon, he''s been found wanting on too many occasions. Ruddy is a fantastic Championship ''keeper, and he''s pulled off some stunning saves when his brain has been switched on properly - but faced with the quality of some of the Premiership strikers, he''s sometimes not been brave enough or tactically smart enough to get himself in the correct position. Ruddy has won me over in the last year or so after I was initially sceptical of him; and I really want him to succeed - but I think it''s too big a step, too soon, for him and if he doesn''t improve in the next couple of months, I really think PL needs to consider a more experienced GK in January on loan for the rest of the season - and look at sending Ruddy back to the Championship for the latter half of the year to build more experience and confidence ahead of next season.

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I agree with lots of your thinking here. I just hope that the January window isnt too late as it proved last time we were in this league and we got Dean Ashton who all bar saved us !Now we need a quality center half , which I am surprised we didnt purchase this summer, since anyone watching us last season knew we were struggling in that dept.I was also surprised we didnt get someone to challenge Ruddy in goal and loan Rudd out to get some experience

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rumours are PL is interested in Kuscak (29 manure USA) as a Jan signing for keeper.

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Kusczac was quoted today complaining about how he''s being ''enslaved'' at Man Utd - he''s not even been on the bench for anything this season, at least 4th choice there now after being the regular no.2 for the past few seasons, which is hurting hit chances of getting into the Poland squad for the Euros.

Apparently Ferguson turned down a season-long loan bid from Leeds for him a couple of weeks ago, which he''s understandably upset about...but does make me suspect Man U have something lined up for him, no reason to keep him around otherwise since he''s clearly not part of their plans. Maybe PL has already had a chat and a deal is already in place?

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NO, NO, NOHe hasn''t got any better sitting on the bench has he! You really want him coming in to play against ARSENAL????We know Barnet and Martin CAN do it. De Laet was a loose canon, we shouldn''t be risking him again in the League unless we have to. (He has been making error for the reserves as well). Maybe if we get Whitbread fit soon he can put a little pressure on our two starting CB''s and they''ll keep a clean sheet

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Despite his mistakes, I think that the worst thing DeLaet did was to have a go at Rudd following his own ridiculous header that led to that goal.

 

He tried to blame a young, nervous rookie for his own mistake. Rudd was clealy under a lot of pressure and needed support. This was very poor form by DeLaet.

 

I noticed it and you bet Lambert did.

 

However, I think the price has been paid and he should start against Arsenal alongside Barnet with Martin switching to right back. He is a more secure defender than Naughton. IMHO.

 

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[quote user="Buckethead"]Not looking good for RDL when he''s not even making the bench despite our defensive injury issues.[:|]
[/quote]

 

I think you''ll find he''s injured too - at least that''s what Lambert said on Radio Norfolk yesterday & I guess he should know

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