Time to give De laet another go?

[Gingerpele 0]

Mister Chops, today Barnett made a huge error for a goal, and sounds like he was partly to blame for the third.

He let Yakubu get a shot off too easily against Blackburn, also I thought he let Samba get away from him for his goal, but some people seem to blame Tierney.... (But why would Tierney be marking Blackburn''s biggest arial threat?)

He has given away two penalties.

I''m fairly sure there have been other examples of poor marking from Barnett leading to goals/opportunities.

Barnett appears to be blameable for quite a few goals/goal scoring chances for the other teams this season. I really don''t think he has been playing as well as you think, but were all entitled to an opinion.

(I personally think, if you ignore the mistakes De Laet is a much better CB, but because of those mistakes he needed to be dropped, but its quite easy to say Barnett has been making similar mistakes as well...)

[ZLF 274]

Hmmm - so Mr Chops, was Leon directly involved in us conceding the second and third today, and the second and third last week too? Is it harsh to drop Leon?

De Laet also played well in those games, generally out playing his partner - but got dropped too.

Fox played well on his return, but was dropped after two quiet games, where we did not lose.

Back to 4231 for me, morison back up front alone, and a shake up in the back 4 too, would probably give De Laet a go, not sure whether in place of Barnett or Martin.

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

So you feel.holts recent.performances deserve him to be dropped?

[Gingerpele 0]

This thread is nothing to do with Holt?

And R.Martin as Liverpool, was it his fault? For some reason i''m struggling to remember there goal...

Oh yeah it was Bellamy, don''t remember that being Martins fault, will try and find it and watch it again...

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]This thread is nothing to do with Holt? And R.Martin as Liverpool, was it his fault? For some reason i''m struggling to remember there goal... Oh yeah it was Bellamy, don''t remember that being Martins fault, will try and find it and watch it again...[/quote]

He made a hash of dealing with a ball up to Suarez (think it was him).

 

Suspect other players, not just Leon Barnett, would have faced heavier criticism but R Martin is a bit of a crowd favourite (which, in many ways, is justified).

[Gingerpele 0]

Suppose it was partly Martin''s fault.

Although could have easily given a foul to Martin, or the other way.

But wasn''t just Martin''s fault, it was a poorly defended long ball all round...

[Gingerpele 0]

GJP, I would argue that Barnett, while not necessarily a crowd favourite has been getting a lot of praise for his performances this season... And on reflection, he just doesn''t seem to have performed highly enough to deserve all of that praise in my mind.

R.Martin probably hasn''t either. We are yet to keep a clean sheet, yet MArtin, Barnett, Naughton and Tierney are all wonderful? Well obviously not or we wouldn''t be conceding so many.

I just think the defence is Lamberts weak spot. Last season we conceded more than you might expect for a second place team, probably the same story in League One, although a certain 7 -1 loss will have distorted the goals conceded slightly...

[CJ 0]

The problem we have is that in the summer Lambert bought some excellent players in midfield and attack but only very late bought two loanees in defence.I really was worried even before the season started because we have no one in that back four with real experience at this level and I would say only Whitbread and Tierny really looks assured enough to cope at this level. Barnett is a good defender but has always made mistakes in lower leagues you can get away with it , not here. Martin is out of position and doing excellent considering but is still learning. De Leat needs another chance but once again still is learning and makes mistakes.We should have bought in one experienced central defender as someone said like Martin Taylor and also someone to backup Ruddy and loaned Rudd out to a Championship side to get experience.Six goals in two games against not the best in the league tells it story and well over half those through very poor defending and lets be honest against Liverpool without Ruddy it could have been three.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]. Fox played well on his return, but was dropped after two quiet games, where we did not lose. [/quote]

I wasn''t totally surprised that Fox was dropped but I felt it was a bit unfair on him.

 

Johnson has had 3 or 4 games now that have been quite below his early season form. He''s got a great work rate but he''s not been doing much on the ball and he''s not been doing a good job of winning the ball. I can see that Lambert would have stuck with Johnson because he''s stronger and more powerful than Fox but that hasn''t really been of much benefit. Fox is a bit more lightweight but he''s been better on the ball.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]We are yet to keep a clean sheet, yet MArtin, Barnett, Naughton and Tierney are all wonderful?  [/quote]

That''s a good point.

 

The defence hasn''t looked right for a few weeks now. They''re all good players individually and despite our great team spirit the defence doesn''t look like a tight unit.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I dont think it would harm Barnett to be rested for a match, but he has had alot of pressure on him this season to provide the physical edge and he cant be doing that bad, before this weekend he was our only player in the top 35 premier league players. I think what it does show in the last few weeks is how much he''s having to get through and maybe he''s feeling the strain alittle. Dont agree with the people saying he''s not up to this level.

[Lambert is King 0]

[quote user="Barnett is King"]I don''t get it though. I can''t really criticise any of our back 4, yet 11 games with no clean sheet is quite frankly awful. I''d like to see De Laet given another go. Russell Martin is consistently ok, but never spectacular. De Laet always impressed me lots and lots, however made like 2 errors (tell me someone who hasn''t?!) and got absolutely murdered for it.

11 for next game:

Ruddy
Naughton De Laet Barnett Tierney
Fox Johnson
Bennett Hoolahan Pilkington
Holt

Man it''s hard to choose an 11, had to leave our Russell Martin, Crofts (who i love!), Morison, Jackson, even Chris Martin looked alright!

I suppose it can only be a good thing to have many options though! [:)]
[/quote]

Listen to Lamberts press conference - he is furious he never usually criticises but is blaming at least 1 of the defenders and maybe 2 but only mentions those incidents that led to goals. Working on the rules that Lambert usually applies 3 strikes and you are out for no other reason Barnett will surely be dropped for no other reason than if he is not others may begin to question how they get in or do they no longer get dropped for a bad run. It happens to everyones favourite player in this system personally ( and I repeat personally ) I think Naughton is class but I assume he is a maximum of half a strike away.

Why with 1 upfront would you play Holt ? and that is a question not a statement as our record when he starts this season is D D L L L. Stats are not always right but the 2 I have seen shows Holt as no shots today. These might be wrong but I must say watching the game I cant remember one. 

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

I did not go to the game today, nor did I manage to watch it, I did manage to see morisons goal and there third.

I think if I am correct that whenever fox has started a game this season we have not lost, am sure that is correct.

From the sounds of it and also from his past mistakes Barnett needs dropping for De Laet, but like I said I can not really comment until I see the highlights.

I feel that if we try and outscore arsenal we will be in for a spanking, once we were 1-0 up we should have tried to tighten up at the back.

Let''s make some more noise and back the boys for the rest of the Season :)

OTBC!!

[Lambert is King 0]

[quote user="HoltsRightFoot"]I did not go to the game today, nor did I manage to watch it, I did manage to see morisons goal and there third. I think if I am correct that whenever fox has started a game this season we have not lost, am sure that is correct. From the sounds of it and also from his past mistakes Barnett needs dropping for De Laet, but like I said I can not really comment until I see the highlights. I feel that if we try and outscore arsenal we will be in for a spanking, once we were 1-0 up we should have tried to tighten up at the back. Let''s make some more noise and back the boys for the rest of the Season :) OTBC!![/quote]

Fox started against Man Utd and MK Dons

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

This threads not about Holt. well people are calling for 451 and.Holt.to.be dropped. I''m.saying I''m completely against it.

[ZLF 274]

Todays games defensive errors

barnett - second to the ball for the 3rd goal having been ahead of bent, poor pass for the second, out maneouvred regularly by Bent and Agbonlahor

Naughton - beaten regularly by Agbon, including the first goal

martin, air header for Bents easy early chance having lost bent, could have read agbon cross for the equaliser, v weak against nZogbia for their third, too often out of position

Tierney - was the man marking bent for the equaliser, once again fell asleep at a crucial time and lost that important yard and was second to the ball, as was barnett for teh 3rd; failed to close down agbonlahor quickly enough for teh 3rd.

All of them are defensive issue - all have occurred in previous games this season, and last to be honest.

We are more solid with 4-2-3-1, which means playing just one striker. So far this season teh best man for that job is morison, not Holt, harsh but best for the team when we have only picked up 2 of 15 pts playing 442...

[Brendo 0]

If we''re talking about De Laet''s ''mistakes'', what about Barnett? Both of Bent''s two goals today his positioning was poor, the back pass, the Stoke Penalty, etc.

[Lambert is King 0]

[quote user="Barnett is King"]If we''re talking about De Laet''s ''mistakes'', what about Barnett? Both of Bent''s two goals today his positioning was poor, the back pass, the Stoke Penalty, etc.


[/quote]

I agree and unfortunately for Barnett Lambert sticks to his principles in these situations and you are given a rest. De Laet made a couple of mistakes but I would say most were surprised when he was dropped as the rest of his game seemed good and fast.

Looks like you may need a change of user name soon  

[BroadstairsR 0]

I, personally, would rather have Martin back at right back and rest Naughton. The latter is a good going forward, but gets turned over easily, as today. Martin has got a more experienced head and would tighten things up at the back.

 

However, this means that if the other two are not yet fit, then Barnett gets an undeserved reprieve alongside De Laet.

 

This goals against is getting ridiculous, and something drastic has to be tried.

[Willmeister 35]

Whitbread should be fit after the international break, for me he has to go back in as I think he is our best defender.

[Ernie 0]

If you want a massive shake up how about, Ruddy, R Martin, Whitbread, De Laet, Tierney, Crofts, Fox, Johnson, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Morison

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

I just watched the highlights for the goals, and all I have to say is wow, poor defending by everyone involved.

Naughton kept on getting skinned by Agbonlahor, Barnett for me was out of position from what I could see and the same for Russel Martin. Tierney also failed to close down one of the villa players for there goal.

Hopefully whitbread is back soon, I would like to see Barnett dropped after today and his recent errors, a little harsh but it happened to De Laet.

[smooth 114]

I think it is clear that we all agree the defending was poor by the team and basic errors cost us and sometimes the same mistake happened again.

We were up however against a very good, under-rated in my eyes, agbonlahor and england striker Bent. The midfield of villa played very well after the first 25 minutes and controlled it. Hooahan was either good or bad in the role in the middle.

We now have the international break, which probably has come at a good time for us to re-evaluate and get our defensive strategy finely tuned.

R. Martin left Bent for that one on one and then didn''t get to the front post to stop the cross for the equaliser or again the third.

But it was 2 very good forwards, one in particular who was putting on a show for capello.

Be interesting to see Barney''s mindset. Is he a player who bounces back and takes this knock as now a point to prove and become more assertive at the back. Or is he a quiet man who will begin to slip into the shadows, again there is a reason why wba let him to come to us, lets see if he wants to prove himself and come back.

Point wsa made about Martin Taylor from Watford, yes a very good centre half who came in under Roeder, but I thought when I was at vicarage road he had put on a bit of weight and looked a bit one dimensional. But I agree he is exactly the type of centre half we need.

This game can be used as a catalyst tough game with arsenal and then crunch game with an ever improving qpr. I presume the usual pretenders are away for international duty, but like Morison said last time. International recognition is good but his mind and passion is firmly with NCFC.

So the break has come at the right time.

[Drurys Testamonials 0]

Yes we made defensive mistakes yesterday. Which 1 of our defenders is so perfect that they won''t ever make 1?Just a case of working out who works with who best and getting a solid back 4.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

Unfortunately we have very few options at centre back right now with Ward, Whitbread & Ayala all crocked. I''d personally give De Laet another go in the next game but its also worth remembering that Agbonlahor and Bent are top class (IMO) players and were a handful all afternoon.

As always there is a bigger picture (although apparently not obvious to a few Canary Callers) and we aren''t doing too badly so far.

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="Drurys Testamonials"]Yes we made defensive mistakes yesterday. Which 1 of our defenders is so perfect that they won''t ever make 1?Just a case of working out who works with who best and getting a solid back 4.[/quote]

Its not just yesterday, why does it seem like so many people think this is a one game thing....

Wigan, Stoke, WBA, Chelsea''s 3rd, Boltons, Sunderlands, Maybe Man.Us, Blackburns and 2 of Villa''s goals were all easily avoidable. Either coming from plainly obvious mistakes, or just poor decisions/defending (Stoke).

Know one is perfect in football, I don''t understand why the word perfect needs to be used, Messi the best player probably ever isn''t perfect. What we want is consistency, obviously Bent and Agbonlahor are going to cause every defence problems, but Villa aren''t going to score 3 every game are they? We just keep on leaking goals, and to be honest I don''t think any one individual can be blamed, it comes all the way from the top with Lambert (and Culverhouse?) not being able to get something quite right, the defence (and Ruddy on one or two occasions) making silly mistakes that just undoes all the other good work, the midfield and/or attack seems to be prone to letting teams counter attack.

Against Swansea, we really didn''t need to concede, it was a silly goal form a team who offerd so little going forwards, they may have had 60-70% of the possession, it certainly seemed that way. But they never ventured forward with much intent, yet one little slip/misjudgement from Naughton allows Sinclair to get past him, he then gets lucky when he falls over and manages to get the ball to Graham. Its easy to give examples like that for nearly every game....

[Brendo 0]

I just hate the whole mindset about him. Everyone seems to think that if

he plays then he will definitely make errors directly leading to

conceding goals. Not at all! Yes, he made a couple of mistakes, but who

hasn''t? Barnett for one has made plenty this season! At fault for all 3

against Villa imo, lost Bent for his two, and the backpass - need I say

more?

Anyway, my point is just that I believe he deserves a chance, especially

as other defenders aren''t performing. He impressed me lots, and was so

good for so much of the games he played in, other than the odd mistake

obviously. As for other options, Ward and Ayala are nowhere near good enough. Whitbread maybe, we will have to see on that one. I''d look at signing an experienced Centre Half in January. Who? I don''t know really. Martin Taylor was class I thought, and has lots of experience, although is getting on a bit. Wes Morgan maybe, Ridgewell (wouldn''t be cheap), Shackell, Cathcart from the Champ, but can''t really see any of those happening. If we were to get an expreienced Prem defender, we''d be looking at quite a bit I''d imagine (both wages + transfer fee).

[Gingerpele 0]

De Laet didn''t make a couple of mistakes, he gave away a goal in all four games, his actions directly losing us 7 points... (But I do think he should be back in the side next game)

How can you say Ayala isn''t good enough? And if you dare mention that MK Dons game :P And Ward also hasn''t played in the prem. Just because you think he won''t be good enough doesn''t mean he won''t be good enough. I thought Tierney would be useless, but he''s one of our best players, many thought Ruddy would be rubbish, a few thought Holt wouldn''t make the step up etc. You can''t write anyone off, especially in our team before their given a chance...

[ROBFLECK 132]

[quote user="Mr. Bump"]What about Daniel Ayala? He''s been out for a while now, shouldn''t he be nearing fitness?
[/quote] I''m waiting for some answers on him too. He''s class and would be a good sub for Barnett

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

Surely one of either Whitbread or Ayala will be back after the international break?

I think Whitbread if anyone will be.