Time to give De laet another go?

[BW 0]

What you reckon guys?

[Gingerpele 0]

Probably, you can''t stick with the same defence that conceded 3 goals two games in a row can you?

[BW 0]

No but normally if i criticise the defence i get shouted at

[Phillip J Fry 0]

Leon Barnett deserves to be subbed after today''s performance. Two goals down to his actions (Villa''s second and third), awful pass for the second goal (you''re Leon Barnett, clear it!) and failing to track Bent for the third.

[BW 0]

been out of position for the past 3 games mate.

[Branston Pickle 2,675]

IMO we have been doing fantastically on many fronts, and it does seem a bit churlish to moan, but it is important to be difficult to score against in this league - we are shipping too many goals, many of them pretty soft; this does need to be looked at sharpish.

Incidentally, what is going on with Whitbread and Ward in particular? I thought they were meant to be close to a return weeks ago?

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="BW"]been out of position for the past 3 games mate.[/quote]

By out of position do you mean in terms of his defensive marking and tracking he has been poor or that he has been placed in a role he is not comfortable with ? I''m starting to agree with the former.

[JF 694]

Thought Martin should have dealt with the third before the cross came in. Barnett was poor as was Naughton. We need to get some quality in in this area in the transfer window.

[BW 0]

former obviously

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="JF"]Thought Martin should have dealt with the third before the cross came in. Barnett was poor as was Naughton. We need to get some quality in in this area in the transfer window.[/quote]As a center back, your job is to mark players from crosses. If Barnett had tracked Bent''s run (which wasn''t a very difficult run to track) it wouldn''t have mattered of Martin dealt with it, as Villa had around two players in the box and Bent was the only one in an obvious goal scoring position. Tierney did exactly the same for the first goal (didn''t track Bent''s run) after Naughton and Barnett failed to deal with the cross and the defense still didn''t learn.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="BW"]former obviously[/quote]Then I agree.

[JF 694]

Completely agree with all of that but Had Martin have dealt with it then it wouldn''t have came to that. The defence as a unit never looked comfortable all game. I would also say it''s time that Bennett is given a spell on the bench, He is just not doing enough for me, He has pace to burn but rarely uses it and it''s very rare for him to take his man on.

[smooth 113]

Is he too similar to r. martin?

Personally I think this is an area where we need to look in january and need premiership experience at the heart of our defence.

But right now, I agree defensively we need to step it up. We need a clean sheet soon. I don''t think it is going to happen against arsenal, but we need it.

Still I would say we haven''t been stretched defensively and looked shocking at all this season and yes today we gave one goal away and then the two others were very similar where you need to clear the cross at the near post. But we have not been humiliated, I think the guys we have are playing to their ability. Is it good enough? well maybe not, but I would say there may be the need for a rock type centre half next to martin. I don''t think you can have two similar centre halves play.

Centre back partnership has to have slightly different players, I wonder if they are too alike. But that doesn''t mean to say that I would not agree with a change.

We need to do something defensively, we need clean sheets.

[J.Warman 0]

we need a player LIKE chris samba(we couldnt get him because he is too big a name) but a big strong centre back like him would be good.

[BW 0]

agreed John

[lake district canary 0]

It could be that the incessant pressure every week from top quality strikers takes its toll and causes mistakes. This was apparent today.

PL has to make the judgment whether the pressure is getting to any of the players.

De Laet is a class act (if he''s learnt from his mistakes) and I would like to see him given another go. I think Ward could be good in the premiership too and would like to see him back too. Could be that competition for defensive places will hot up and we will see changes.

What about a Ward/DeLaet central pairing?

[BW 0]

LDC you have no idea how ward will playing the prem stupid idea. De laet for now instead of barnett

[lake district canary 0]

??

Surely I can decide that from what I''ve seen from Ward that he might do well given a chance?

Not stupid, I may be wrong but how do you know how Ward will do given a chance?

[sgncfc 1,088]

[quote user="BW"]What you reckon guys?[/quote]

Yes, but at right back where Naughton has been roasted again. Yes, Barnett was poor today but he spent most of his time covering right back. Russell Martin was also poor. Tierney wasn''t - for the second game running our defence was rubbish apart from Tierney, who is class.

Villa barely put a ball in the air up front, everything came on the deck through the middle and wide, and we should have gone narrower and stopped the flow but we had nothing in midfield once Johnson was off.

Very reminiscent of Blackpool last year. Lambert was out manouevred by his opposite number - hasn''t happened very often though. We should ahve started with Crofts instead of Bennett if he wanted to play Holt with Morison.

[smooth 113]

I think R. Martin can play at centre half, his pace is vital in this league.

Ward and Whitbread are not known for being too pacey, both good at what they do and can''t wait for them to be chellenging for that position alongside Martin. But I do not think they are the long term answer if we want to stay up in this division.

Thin De Laet must be close, but I think it does open the question of a defender in january. A type of Bobo Balde who Celtic had, a real strong force and one who is a threat at set pieces.

But right now we have de laet and barnett challenging for that position. Don''t think we''ll be able to judge too much against a very good arsenal team.

[Mr. Bump 0]

What about Daniel Ayala? He''s been out for a while now, shouldn''t he be nearing fitness?

[BW 0]

Think ayala has another season to go before he''s ready for prem. In my eyes

[rock bus 614]

i was at the game and felt barnett was by far the weakest link. mistake for their goal was very bad and his distribution during the entire game was very poor. fact that martin who is playing out of position looked the better centre back says it all.

de laet has now had time to settle so would give him another chance.

agree re bennett as well, he was dissapointing today

despite all the above still feel we have more than enough to compete in this league

[Norfolk Mustard 81]

If you want size (6''4"), strength and experience - look no further than Martin Taylor at Watford. He has Premiership experience and has already demonstrated he''s hungry to play when he came to Norwich on loan rather than sit in Birmingham reserves.

He started all 46 league games last season for Watford and scored 6 goals. If we simply want someone with a calm head and authority to play January to May he would do a great job. He''d be within budget and ideal for the Championship should the worst happen.

De Laet alongside him would be a different proposition; Taylor as the big guy to clear the aerial danger and the Man Utd man as a fast-across the ground defender to sweep up the bits...

[Norwich or die tryin! 0]

For me Leon Barnett is simply not good enough to be a Premier league footballer. Fair enough he can head it and kick it away all day long but he''s not a good enough footballer or intelligent enough to play at this level. He can''t pass to save his life and often we loose possession from his aimless balls upfeild, look at whitbread for example he is far better at starting moves from the back.Barnett is a good Championship defender imo but his lack of passing ability poor positioning and occasional moments of madness like today will let us down at this level. I find his situation similar to that of Nelson last season who was top class in league 1 but struggled at Championship level because of his footballing ability and pace and Lambert got rid in January. I think the same is true with Barnett in terms of Championship to Premier transition and hopefully we will have some money to spend in January and surely CB is the first area we must look to strengthen. I''m sure Lambert is well aware of this and then maby we could improve at the back and more Barnett on. In response to the OP i hope Lambert does drop Barnett in favour of De leat for the Arsenal game and also hopefully we can get Whitbread back to fitness for atleast a place on the bench because i rate him as our best CB.

[Brendo 0]

I don''t get it though. I can''t really criticise any of our back 4, yet 11 games with no clean sheet is quite frankly awful. I''d like to see De Laet given another go. Russell Martin is consistently ok, but never spectacular. De Laet always impressed me lots and lots, however made like 2 errors (tell me someone who hasn''t?!) and got absolutely murdered for it. 11 for next game:RuddyNaughton De Laet Barnett TierneyFox JohnsonBennett Hoolahan PilkingtonHoltMan it''s hard to choose an 11, had to leave our Russell Martin, Crofts (who i love!), Morison, Jackson, even Chris Martin looked alright! I suppose it can only be a good thing to have many options though! [:)]

[Gingerpele 0]

It was 3 mistakes, 3 big mistakes in four games that all led to goals. And I think he might take some of the blame for poor marking for Stoke''s equaliser as well?

Thats not acceptable from a CB, if your CB or GK makes that many mistakes over a short period of time, he''s out of the team. Look at Leeds'' GK in midweek, off at half time after 3 mistakes.

Barnett made a big mistake for second goal today, and let Bent get infront of him for the 3rd. Add to that a few other dubious pieces of defending over the past weeks. As well as giving away two penalties this season (even though one of them wasn''t a penalty) just should really make you think Barnett isn''t up to the job.

Going back to De Laet, doesn''t really matter how well he plays in rest of game, if he makes a big mistake to give away a goal, that undoes all his other work. He was punished for his mistakes, now Barnett should be.

I''m not sure how much R.Martin is to blame for recent goals, he seems steady enough and he''s had to adjust to become a premiership centre back, which can''t be easy.

Would be quite funny if De Laet replaces Barnett, as we would then be playing 4 full backs.....

[CantonsHero 0]

Simple:

Next week Da Laet comes in for Barnett who is told that he has to earn his place back.

We pride ourselves on a great team spirit; so players need to know that they will get into the team if they keep trying.

[Mister Chops 3]

Seems a bit harsh to drop a defender who''s played reasonably well in favour of a loanee who has committed one goal-causing error in each game he''s played.

[GJP 77]

Think it''s a bit unfair that Barnett is taking so much stick today for his costly error whereas Russell Martin didn''t get the same treatment when his error gave Liverpool their goal.

 

Martin has had a lot of praise recently because he has switched positions. However, if you were to look back over the last few games you''ll probably notice that Barnett does the bigger chunk of defending. Yeah, Martin plays the position fairly well and he makes the odd burst forward but if you look at who makes the big tackles, big blocks and big headers I think you''ll see that Barnett is the main man in that department overall.

 

If nothing else, Leon Barnett is the natural centreback and Russell Martin isn''t. In my opinion, in the way they play, it tends to show.

 

I''d be surprised if Martin survived longer in the centre of defence than Barnett does.