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a1canary

Hoolahan - 1 goal, no assists...

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...so we don''t really need him right? I noticed in Ricardo''s report he didn''t mention him once. That''s no criticism.

But for me the Sunderland game (and the games where he didn''t play) showed just why he''s so important, and it''s not about goals. It was just so great to watch a Norwich team play so positively, stringing great moves together, and nearly all of them going through Wes and very rarely breaking down from a stray pass or bad choice. Without him there''s no doubt in my mind without him we would be losing the ball much more in the final third where he normally receives the ball.

My only concern is the same one i had in the summer which was that he is just too important and we still don''t have anyone who can do what he does if we lose him. Chris Martin could probably make a good fist of the role and i gather he did well in Wes'' position in the reserves recently. But he''s no Wes yet. Let''s just hope he stays fit because with him, almost anything is possible. Without him i''d be worried for our prospects.

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Hoolahan''s our most talented player. He makes things happen & is a suprisingly good captain aswell.

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I really respect him, i remember all the fuss after the drubbing against Colchester where he upset some fans, he stuck with us, did his talking on the pitch and has been consistantly one of our star players, if he had a right foot he would be almost Messi like, i hope he continues to improve and stays hungry.

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His work-rate is nothing short of phenomenal. Next time you watch him place, regardless of his lack of assists at the moment, watch how he tracks back, how many attacks he breaks up, how many times he harries the opposition. Hoolahan needs to play at the moment, simple as.

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I totally agree - Hoolahan is our most creative player on the pitch and has to play imo - This has been evident in the games he has started, opposed to those he hasnt.

Even if we can''t get any points tomorrow, I think Wes will certainly cause a few problems.

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When I saw the titl of this thread I immediately thought ''F*cking hell, here we go''. So I was pleasantly surprised by it''s content [:D]

 

It''s no secret that I really rate him. I''ve had countless arguments over the last two years with posters who have criticised him or being ''too lightweight'', ''too greedy'', ''too left footed'', ''too wasteful'', ''too fancy'' and verious other complaints. He has never received the plaudits from fans that Grant Holt does despite being every bit as important to our success of the past couple of seasons. I''m pleased that you can look past the statistics that excite the Football Manager generation (there is no such thing as an ''assist'' in football) a1 and can see the contribution he is making to the side.

 

AJ makes a very good point about his workrate. We look at our best when we press teams high up the pitch and squeeze our defence up to make the pitch small for the opposition. I''ve always felt that Wes is key to this and often leads the pressing. I don''t think it''s any coincidence that in the matches he didn''t start (West Brom in particular) our defence has sat a lot deeper and left a large gap to the midfield. If we are going to get anything out of the game tomorrow we will have to be brave and try and win the ball off United in their half. If we sit deep and invite them on to us we''ll get destroyed.

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Hoolahan''s workrate is now fantastic, and this was demonstrated in his performance against Sunderland. This added attribute is down to Lambert. Wes just needs to be carefull that he doesnt work too hard and neglect his creative side by tiring. Having said that despite lacking a bit of pace Wes looks to be one of the fittest players at the club now. His commitment often goes unoticed, He fully deserves that armband at the minute.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"] 

AJ makes a very good point about his workrate. We look at our best when we press teams high up the pitch and squeeze our defence up to make the pitch small for the opposition. I''ve always felt that Wes is key to this and often leads the pressing. I don''t think it''s any coincidence that in the matches he didn''t start (West Brom in particular) our defence has sat a lot deeper and left a large gap to the midfield. If we are going to get anything out of the game tomorrow we will have to be brave and try and win the ball off United in their half. If we sit deep and invite them on to us we''ll get destroyed.

[/quote]I agree with this. I would go further and say that without Wes on the pitch (and to a lesser extent Martin), we don''t have that outlet for the defence/midfield who can hold the ball up and make it stick. This leads to us not only defending deeper, but also playing longs balls which inevitably come straight back, and invite greater pressure onto us.It is a massive footballing cliche, but if we have are able to retain the ball high up the pitch on Saturday then United won''t be able to hurt us as much. If we sit deep and play long balls like we have done in Wes-less games then we will be destroyed. Of course, that is very easy to say - but I am sure Lambert has something up his sleeve!

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Have to admit I thought he would have been too lightweight for the Premier and with only being able to use his left foot, he would have been found lacking...so far (and hopefully for the remainder of the season) I have been wrong. My MOTM on Monday night. Come on Wessi, show those big time Charlies at Old Trafford a thing or two!

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1 goal, no assists... as everybody has pointed out, doesn''t even begin to tell the story.So why do the media keep bombarding us with all these meaningless statistics? Percentage possession, shots on/off target, assists, etc. What does it all mean? What is an "assist" exactly? If it just means the player who provided the final pass to the goalscorer, then what about all the other players involved in the build-up - don''t they get any credit?The only essential statistic about a match is the final score. None of these other figures actually tell you anything useful about the game itself, and if you haven''t seen it, they can give a totally false picture.

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Well, glad we''re all agreed on that then! The way I see it, it''s a bit like one of those slider puzzles and Hooly is the key piece around which all the other pieces slot. With him where he is, the wingers are suddenly more effective as he is able to pick them out higher up the pitch, while Fox and Johnson can be effective on sentry duty ahead of the back line.

As I.S says, we retain the ball high up the pitch and that is absolutely crucial in this league and something we never really mastered last time around. I think it could be a job Chris M could do in Hooly''s absence as he''s good at linking play and protecting the ball and he has more presence. What he doesn''t have is the creativity and ability to spot a pass as quickly as our Wes. Plus Wes doesn''t actually get knocked around and kicked as much as we might have expected. Not yet anyway!

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He''s becoming the complete all round attacking midfielder for us. Intelligent, great touch with both feet, quick distribution and quick feet as well as the incredible work rate he brings. I''d love to see just how much ground he covers, he must be up there with the top 5 in the league.

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I think this just highlights some of the meaningless statistics that are pumped on to the forum to try to prove the worth or worthlessness of some of our players by people who think they can assess a player from ''figures''.

Movement off the ball, attitude towards the game, the application shown by players, the determination shown, the leadership qualities that lift other players ....... and so on. Where are the statistics for those, or are those qualities presumed unimportant?

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I suppose statistics on number of passes and % of completed passes and km covered in a game might help show his worth better than some of the other ones we tend to see.

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When I left primary school and started playing football more seriously my Sports Master once told our class that ''You can be the best player on the pitch, but never touch the ball''.

Perhaps somewhat over exagerated but the point is still there to be seen. A great many qualities can be shown by a player that have no statisical worth and it must be the overall assessment of managers that are the most important factors.

 

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[quote user="a1canary"]I suppose statistics on number of passes and % of completed passes and km covered in a game might help show his worth better than some of the other ones we tend to see.[/quote]As  I said earlier on, the meaningless statistics keep on coming. Is it a good thing or a bad thing to cover lots of ground in a game? Is a player who is running around a lot actually putting in tackles, making passes, gatting into good positions? Or is he just running around like a headless chicken?There was an article on here earlier this week about Andy Hughes. I am sure he used to cover a lot of distance in a match.....[:)]

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I agree the stats don''t tell the full story and can be meaningless on their own - all i''m saying is those three stats i suggested together would give us a better idea of his worth. He''s clearly not running around like a headless chicken if he covers a lot of ground AND completes a lot of passes (and puts a lot of tackles in).

You may not like them but ''prozone'' is a favourite tool of managers for a reason. Especially in Germany where PL learnt his trade.

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To be honest. Last season I very much saw Wes as a luxuary player and thought that we could do without him if needed. I also said that I doubted we would see a lot of him due to his stature.Seems that I was wrong and my opinion has changed. He has proven to be vastly important to us so far.Re: Chris Martin, I think he will be quiet this year as I have a sneaking suspicion Lambert is asking him to play as a midfielder. He played in the hole vs the Man Utd reserves with Wheelie and Jacko feeding off of him. He got back a lot and seemed to be playing a game somewhere between Wes and Grant Holt. He certainly came from the Reserve game as our best player. Just thought it interesting that he was playing in that role. Should be interesting as maybe Lambert actually sees Martin as a long term replacement for Wes rather than 3rd / 4th choice striker.

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