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Good game today, but want Grant Holt back in the team

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I would have quite like to see Holt come on near the end yesterday BUT on saying that I can see why Jackson came on instead as he is much quicker.

I think the longer Holt spends on the sidelines the more he will have something to prove and I am fairly sure when he gets his chance, either sooner or later, he will start hitting the back of the net.

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As I said in another thread, Holt thrives in "pressure" situations. There were two situations yesterday where we got to the bye-line and the ball simply needed chipping over the  last defender to the unmarked man in the middle. On both occasions it was hit straight at the defender and the chance was gone. These are the sort of situations Holt gets into, and I think he would have had the composure to play the correct ball.I agree that he is not the ideal player for every situation, but against a United defence that was, frankly, a shambles, I think he would have prospered.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Well Morison doesn''t have the finishing, so that rules him out....[/quote]

Strange... I could swear that I saw him score from a cracking header recently. [:D]

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Cannot wait to see holt back in the team!

Second half at bolton, morison did nothing for 20 minutes, against sunderland he just didn''t look interested at times and i was calling for him to be taken off in the build up to his goal. The fact is thats worrying.

As for yesterday at old trafford, he was poor. He rarely challenged for the ball and spent half his time jogging when he should''ve been sprinting. I wanted him to do well but i don''t think he''s got it in him, holt will run his socks of for 90 minutes every week, i''d rather that than walking around and maybe creating one chance. Very critical but i''ve been growing more and more frustrated with him.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Well Morison doesn''t have the finishing, so that rules him out....[/quote]

Strange... I could swear that I saw him score from a cracking header recently. [:D]

[/quote]

And how many (good) chances has he missed? One goal, doesn''t make him a good finisher, Holt is definatly a better finisher than Morison.

Hows Cody doing?

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I can''t believe people saying Morison had a bad game were watching the same match as me. Just because he didn''t chase every lost cause doesn''t mean he has little passion, it means he is saving his energy. Hoolahan often pulls up before chasing a lost cause, but you wouldn''t question his desire. The work he did as a lone striker, the chances he carved out for himself, even Fergie praised it after the game.

And in no way whatsoever is Holty quicker than Morison!

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The suggestion by a few within this thread that Holt & Morison should be in the samestarting eleven is really quite embarrassing.[:$]

Don''t get me wrong I love a bit of banter and spot of japery as much as the next fella,but let''s keep these football discussions a tad more serious ffs!    

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[quote user="Shyster"]The suggestion by a few within this thread that Holt & Morison should be in the same
starting eleven is really quite embarrassing.

[:$]


Don''t get me wrong I love a bit of banter and spot of japery as much as the next fella,
but let''s keep these football discussions a tad more serious ffs!    




[/quote]

Morison is starting in this system because he''s more mobile, and there''s only room for one of them. Holt has been great for us and maybe will be again, but the  people who can''t see that Morison worked his nuts off yesterday are blinkered in the extreme. Do you not understand that the pace of our game has increased because we have target man who doesn''t incessantly throw himself to the ground instead of linking play?

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Thank you Beauseant, football is so one dimensional to some people and yes we are all entitled to our opinions, but its not as black and white as some people make out.

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I believe in the system we are currently playing, Morison is the best option we have. Morison is more mobile and battles in situations were Holt would just fall to the ground, I don''t doubt however that Holt is more instinctive in regards to finishing and awareness of the players around him. It''s frustrating because I don''t believe we would create as many goal scoring opportunities with Holt as we do with Morison, but I believe that once we get in them positions, I''d bet more money on Holt scoring or passing at the right opportunity. I know we only saw glimpses of Vaughan, but I think he could have been more of an all rounded lone striker. Morison is still adapting to our team as well as the Premiership however, and if he could just gain some composure in front of goal, then I think he will do just fine; I also still believe that Holt will have a big part to play this season.

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Strikers are ''confidence'' players and if we damage that fragile mindset and we''ll ruin him.Keep playing him until he finds his shooting boots again... and as ever he will reward that faith. When he was missing we struggled in Division Two and without him there inspiring the rest of the team at this level we will live to regret it.Holt should be first on the teamsheet whenever he''s fit.

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[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]

Strikers are ''confidence'' players and if we damage that fragile mindset and we''ll ruin him.

Keep playing him until he finds his shooting boots again... and as ever he will reward that faith. When he was missing we struggled in Division Two and without him there inspiring the rest of the team at this level we will live to regret it.

Holt should be first on the teamsheet whenever he''s fit.



[/quote]

Division Two?

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Strikers are ''confidence'' players and if we damage that fragile mindset and we''ll ruin him.Keep playing him until he finds his shooting boots again... and as ever he will reward that faith. When he was missing we struggled in Division Two and without him there inspiring the rest of the team at this level we will live to regret it.Holt should be first on the teamsheet whenever he''s fit.

[/quote]

Division Two?

[/quote]As opposed to the commercially hyped entity now known as the ''Championship''..

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Holt has missed chances this season too; his link up play has not been as good

Morison deserves a little longer so am expecting the same 11 to start next time out too

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Lots of sentimentality attached to WFLGH on here, and rightly so, after what he''s done for us for the last two years.

But none for him from Lambert, and rightly so.

The idea that anyone is ''first on the teamsheet'' flies in the face of everything that Lambert is doing.

It''s pretty simple:

If we want Wes in the team, we have to play 4-2-3-1 (or 4-5-1, if you''d rather call it that).

Morison''s mobility makes him the superior option to Holt in that lone striker''s role.

If you want Holt back in the team, you need to alter the formation that has gained us two wins and a really commendable performance at OT, and you probably need to drop Wes.

If you want to do that, fair enough. But I would keep it the same.

Finally, if you think Morison had a poor game on Saturday, just take a moment to reflect that Paul Lambert and Alex Ferguson both disagree with you.

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Neither Morison nor Holt have played at this level before so both will take time to adjust to Prem defenders. What many miss about Holt is that it has not just been his goals but his set up play as well. many goals from others over the last two seasons have come from Holt crosses or assists, and had he been where Morison was on Sat I''m convinced he would have found Wes and left him with virtually a tap in.

Morison looks a little more rounded however, and I feel is the better bet in a 4-5-1-1. Holt will work in a 4-4-2 which is what we played for most of the last 2 seasons, and we may do so again from time to time this season. In a game where we will be counterattacking on the break, I think Morison has to be first choice with Jackson as first reserve. In a home game against a more solid or defence minded side I prefer Holt with his strength and little lay off as pace will not be so important. I thought that he and Martin worked well together against Stoke for example.

Ultimately its a squad we need, not an arsenal of indenti-kit players, and Lambert has a decent range of options available. We know now he will make the big decisions based on his view of the game and the way he wants to play, but also he realises the importance of having his leaders in that squad. Holt will still have a large part to play this season I feel sure.

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TO be honest, I am not convinced with Morison. I think he actually isn''t that mobile, against Sunderland there were numerous occasions where Fox played Morison in, I geniunely believe Holt would have got on to them, not due to pace but more due to intelligence, I think Holt would have been on it a second earlier.

Holt was man of the match against Chelsea, his mobility was not an issue really, he is less mobile but I think he makes up for it, and if the wingers play slightly higher it could do better for Holt. I think Morison lacks movement which Holt has and that is what for me is the difference. Plus Holt is not indecisive, he would have shot or crossed that chance Morison had not dither.

I think Morison probably wins more headers, but I don''t think he has done too much better then Holt has, and all his good work is a bit of a waste if he has no end product.

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Why does PL, celebrated by virtually everyone for his judgement, relegate Holty to fourth available striker?

Is it because Holt is too slow, too easily falls when touched by an opposing player, too easy to mark or cut out by defenders? Is it that he represents a more static approach which does not fit in with the high-pace counter-attacking?

I don''t know the answer, but PL clearly has his reasons. With Vaughan out it could be that Holt is selected, and it will be up to him to play himself back. Past records do not count.

With Vaughan out for some time, when we play with two strikers at home, Holt has to demonstrate that he is a better finisher than Jackson and Martin! He scored more last season than Jackson and Martin, but he played far more games.

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[quote user="Salopian"]Why does PL, celebrated by virtually everyone for his judgement, relegate Holty to fourth available striker?

Is it because Holt is too slow, too easily falls when touched by an opposing player, too easy to mark or cut out by defenders? Is it that he represents a more static approach which does not fit in with the high-pace counter-attacking?[/quote]

BINGO!

We could do with a forward in the mold of Ched Evans playing off Morison.

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I would suggest that if we do play with two up front against Swansea, it''ll be Holt and Jackson. And that would be right. Holt is the better target man, and combines well with Jackson''s pace.

But personally, I''d stick with 4-2-3-1 and Morison on his own up front.

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http://www.holtamania.com/2011/10/01/story-of-a-match-man-utd/worth a read for some good analysis of the role Morison played and how he is key to the team,

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Another good report from Holtamania. As he (and others) have rightly pointed out the role that Morison is playing at present is not a particularly glamorous one and it is probably unfair to assess him purely on his goals. Those who are convinced that Holt would have put away the chances that Morison did not are missing the point somewhat. There is no guarantee that he would have been in those positions in the first place.

 

For the last three games we have looked like a well drilled team where everybody knows their role. We have defended well as a team and created good chances to score in all three. We need to be more clinical in front of goal but I am confident we will improve this. One of the big differences between lower league players and their Premier League counterparts is in their decision making. Processing all of the available options at speed before picking the right pass or shooting at the correct time and in the right place is what separates the best from the rest. Continuing to play against those top players in a settles side will surely lead to our players making better decisions over time.

 

To drop Morison know would probably result in us going back to a 4-4-2 which would also mean dropping Wes (and possibly David Fox?). All so we can pick a player who has scored exactly the same number of goals as him, has also missed chances and has yet to start a game which we have subsequently won. Thankfully Paul Lambert is not as bound by sentiment as some of the armchair managers on here.

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I dont really get some of this thread. Surely our best team is not necessarily our best players our best team is a TEAM that wins and keeps us in the premiership. IMO it would not matter who Morrison was ie Kenwyn Jones Welbeck ect people would slate him not through being good or bad but because he dared to take Grant Holts place in the team. Every player in our TEAM is fighting for what most outside Norwich would think impossible ie maintaining our premiership status. If as fans we cannot accept new players coming in then that is a huge backward step. The role Morrison is being asked to play could not be played by any of our other players and the system looks solid. Lets also not forget that Holt has been just as bad in front of goal as anyone else at Wigan he missed the ball when faced with a tap in at Chelsea he missed the ball completely when all he needed to do was head the ball into an open net and against WBA he failed to react to the ball coming back out to him off a defender.

 

Many are demanding an established Premiership forward to score goals. Unfortunately they cost millions plus wages, and in our team ( we are not Man U or Chelsea ) they will only get the odd chance to score so there are no garuntees. If we wish to raise the money to sign a Kenwyn Jones or something we have no option but to raise the extra cash on top of what we have by selling Holt. Most including me would object to this, but it is a fact that to stay up this year or if we do stay up to consolidate next year it is simply a case of improving our players at every hurdle.

 

Managers are judged on results not on wether or not they play the best players. The problem is no different further up the chain ie do you play Torres, Drogba or Anelka. I am sure Chelsea fans have the same debate but if they win the Champions league do they care ?. Likewise every player in our squad is trying to push us to the next level. That next level will probably not involve a number of them but as fans do we really care providing our goals are met. Holt is a legend him and Lambert ( McNally off the pitch ) saved this club, football however is not a place for sentiment and if Lambert can keep us up why should we bother who plays. Who would have predicted our current two centre halves ? No one is slating Russell Martin as he is not our best centre half but he is currently doing the job better than anyone else so therefore fits into our TEAM. 

 

Over our last three games we have played a new system and in the main with the same players. We have looked something we did not look last time in the premiership - a real premiership side. Not long ago there were people on here suggesting this was a step to far for Lambert. Now we are winning everyone thinks he is the real deal again. He did that tatically and selecting a different group of players and until they start to not win ( or look good ) I am sure those in possesion will keep unless of course he sees an opportunity to do something different that he feels will win a game.   

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