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Lambert is King

Last Saturday afternoon watching NCFC at pub ???

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I wonder if this will be the last Saturday as the European Court ruling is next Tuesday. Personally I think Sky will lose but appeal.

If sky do lose I wonder what consequences this will have long term on our pockets and Skys investment into football. I assume if the sat companies win they can start selling to us to view from home ? 

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it''s pretty simple, if sky lose the case, for the next premier league tv rights, the premier league will not sell rights to every game to foreign tv companies, extending the ban on showing 3pm kick offs in the UK to the rest of the EU, to stop pubs taking advantage of this loophole.

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I''d be more concerned with the Premier League than Sky...Wolves chief executive Jez Moxey:

"Not only is that currently illegal, it is also against an agreement

between football and the Government. That’s the Football League, Premier

League and the FA that there will be no live broadcasts of matches at

3pm in an attempt to protect the integrity – long-standing tradition of

football being played at 3pm – and encouraging fans to watch games

live."

“What many people misunderstand the Premier League is still

currently – and being very successful at – prosecuting publicans who

flout the current law.”

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[quote user="Lambert is King"]

I wonder if this will be the last Saturday as the European Court ruling is next Tuesday. Personally I think Sky will lose but appeal.

If sky do lose I wonder what consequences this will have long term on our pockets and Skys investment into football. I assume if the sat companies win they can start selling to us to view from home ? 

[/quote]

Even if Sky win, can''t imagaine they will go round Norfolk tracking down all the pubs which have foreign satellite systems installed, most of them aren''t advertising the fact they are showing the games?

Plus if Sky win won''t the Portsmouth pub landlady be able to appeal which will be another 3 months.

Loads of perfectly good streams on the interenet to watch any games you cant make anyway.

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[quote user="Sports Desk Pete"]I''d be more concerned with the Premier League than Sky...Wolves chief executive Jez Moxey:

"Not only is that currently illegal, it is also against an agreement

between football and the Government. That’s the Football League, Premier

League and the FA that there will be no live broadcasts of matches at

3pm in an attempt to protect the integrity – long-standing tradition of

football being played at 3pm – and encouraging fans to watch games

live."

“What many people misunderstand the Premier League is still

currently – and being very successful at – prosecuting publicans who

flout the current law.”[/quote]nothing to stop us watching it at home though.

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[quote user="Sports Desk Pete"]Karen Murphy has today won the latest stage of her fight to air Premier League games...[/quote]

Thanks Pete - hadnt seen that yet.

Wonder how Sky will react ?

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I know this might be different to many views on here but, I don''t want 3pm kick offs shown in pubs live.

I think it takes something away from tradition and would affect teams with smaller attendances.

Everyone has coped for years without 3pm kick offs and just watched MOTD that evening and listened on the radio during the day. Why change it?

I know Sky have ''too much'' power in football because they have too much money to throw at it, but I don''t care. Their coverage is excellent and they show me all I want to see all season!

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Absolutely delighted. [:D]Yes, I know it has negative effects, but for Norwich, wouldn''t have thought it would effect our away support. In addition, on a personal note, it''s amazing news. I''ve been to like 50+ away games in the last 3 seasons, spending a fair chunk of my money on it. Now in the prem, not only can I not afford it as much, but coaches are just so boring. 10/12 hours on a saturday on a coach bored and uncomfy spending £50+, or £10 in the pub on drinks. Not really bothered if I sound like a poor supporter because I know inside that I am not. [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)]

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[quote user="Barnett is King"]Absolutely delighted. [:D]

Yes, I know it has negative effects, but for Norwich, wouldn''t have thought it would effect our away support. In addition, on a personal note, it''s amazing news. I''ve been to like 50+ away games in the last 3 seasons, spending a fair chunk of my money on it. Now in the prem, not only can I not afford it as much, but coaches are just so boring. 10/12 hours on a saturday on a coach bored and uncomfy spending £50+, or £10 in the pub on drinks. Not really bothered if I sound like a poor supporter because I know inside that I am not.

[:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)][/quote]

Football has priced itself out of ordinary people''s pockets and this will be a wake-up call which will hopefully mean lower ticket-prices and a welcome knock-on effect of thus lowering players wages.  Failing that, attendances will dwindle as people visit pubs, so IMO this is to the longterm benefit of supporters, the game and pubs.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Barnett is King"]Absolutely delighted. [:D]Yes, I know it has negative effects, but for Norwich, wouldn''t have thought it would effect our away support. In addition, on a personal note, it''s amazing news. I''ve been to like 50+ away games in the last 3 seasons, spending a fair chunk of my money on it. Now in the prem, not only can I not afford it as much, but coaches are just so boring. 10/12 hours on a saturday on a coach bored and uncomfy spending £50+, or £10 in the pub on drinks. Not really bothered if I sound like a poor supporter because I know inside that I am not. [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)][/quote]

Football has priced itself out of ordinary people''s pockets and this will be a wake-up call which will hopefully mean lower ticket-prices and a welcome knock-on effect of thus lowering players wages.  Failing that, attendances will dwindle as people visit pubs, so IMO this is to the longterm benefit of supporters, the game and pubs.

[/quote]Surely the Premier League will just extend their "no-3pm" agreement to extend to all EU countries from next season though? Will also mean obtaining an online stream of the non-Sky games will be much more difficult.

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"Even if Sky win"

The case was brought by the Premier League NOT Sky.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Barnett is King"]Absolutely delighted. [:D]Yes, I know it has negative effects, but for Norwich, wouldn''t have thought it would effect our away support. In addition, on a personal note, it''s amazing news. I''ve been to like 50+ away games in the last 3 seasons, spending a fair chunk of my money on it. Now in the prem, not only can I not afford it as much, but coaches are just so boring. 10/12 hours on a saturday on a coach bored and uncomfy spending £50+, or £10 in the pub on drinks. Not really bothered if I sound like a poor supporter because I know inside that I am not. [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)][/quote]

Football has priced itself out of ordinary people''s pockets and this will be a wake-up call which will hopefully mean lower ticket-prices and a welcome knock-on effect of thus lowering players wages.  Failing that, attendances will dwindle as people visit pubs, so IMO this is to the longterm benefit of supporters, the game and pubs.

[/quote]Hope so mate.

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[quote user="Lambert is King"]

I wonder if this will be the last Saturday as the European Court ruling is next Tuesday. Personally I think Sky will lose but appeal.

If sky do lose I wonder what consequences this will have long term on our pockets and Skys investment into football. I assume if the sat companies win they can start selling to us to view from home ? 

[/quote]

Recent update, good news for fans and pubs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162241

H

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"...various graphics, were "works" protected by copyright. To use any of these parts of a broadcast, a pub would need the permission of the Premier League."Expect to see these various graphics on screen from now on.

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[quote user="Sports Desk Pete"]"...various graphics, were "works" protected by copyright. To use any of these parts of a broadcast, a pub would need the permission of the Premier League."

Expect to see these various graphics on screen from now on.
[/quote]

 

This is a point The Guardian is making:

However, the court ruled against the bid by Karen Murphy, the landlady of the Red, White and Blue pub in Portsmouth, to be allowed to use a Greek decoder card to show live Premier League matches to pub goers at much cheaper rates than BSkyB charges commercial premises in the UK on copyright grounds.

The ECJ said the transmission in a pub is a "communication to the public", which means that without the permission of the FA Premier League Murphy is in breach of the copyright directive. This directive would not stop individuals buying foreign decoder cards for domestic use.

However, the ECJ said live match coverage itself was not covered by copyright protection, although the Premier League could claim ownership of FAPL-branded opening video sequences, theme music, on-screen graphics and highlights of previous matches.

This means that as long as the FAPL and BSkyB ensure that match coverage includes enough copyright elements pubs will not be allowed to show foreign broadcasts.

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It''s not difficult to grey out icons and graphics. In fact, Sky often do it for some of their foreign football league matches.

I think it''s a relief to see common sense prevail in a European Court for a change. The way I saw it, it wasn''t all too different from the Corn Laws in the 19th century. Instead of Tory landowners losing out, it''s Premier League bigwigs and greedy Sky executives. Boo-f*cking-hoo.

Imagine if you were having to pay a set amount for an English based product, knowing full well a similarly suitable product was available from abroad for a significantly reduced sum. However, you could not take advantage of that cheaper product because the courts of your country denied it.

It''s called a free market economy and in this case, it has taken precedent over the old boys club and the influence certain individuals in the upper echelons at Sky and the Premier League hold. It''s just sad and shameful that it had to take the European Courts to reach this conclusion and that our own justice system originally arrived at a conclusion that is illegal and punished an innocent citizen.

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Unfortunately it is not yet fully clarified.

This is a guidance from the ECJ which still has to be ruled upon by our own High Court. The devil is in the detail. T

This ruling now allows members of the public to buy decoders from anyway within the EU. However, put simply, pubs will need to gain permission from the Pemier League if they are to transmit anything that is copyright to the Premier League ie opening credits, theme music, etc

This maybe the sticking point as what determines what is the game (not protected) and what is ''protected works'' ? ie is playing the Premier League anthem when for instance a substitution is made protected works.

Perhaps that is why clubs have been so keen to play music at cedrtain times during a game or why the Premier League and others have been so keen to interupt the game with idiotic nonsense about video replays.

I suspect this will continue to rumble on for some while.

... so they ca

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the Portsmouth landlady has won her case and this I hope will mean that live football matches can be shown

Quote from BBC

The ECJ now says national laws which prohibit the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards are contrary to the freedom to provide services.

''Relief''

It said national legislation, which banned the use of overseas decoders, could not "be justified either in light of the objective of protecting intellectual property rights or by the objective of encouraging the public to attend football stadiums".

Freedom to buy football matches globally - SKY were and are ripping off pubs by their high prices -may be they will get real and charge realistic prices

My one example was a pub paying £10000 per year for SKY and he ditched them in favour of a full Premier league choice at £5000 pa

Good business - yes he can now attract more customer and not make a loss on paying excessive monies to SKY

Of course there will be knockons but paying less for the rights and reducing players excessive wages might be the start - followed by reducing ticket prices - make matches available to all...

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Unfortunately it is not as simple as that

The Premier League could simply plaster it''s logo all over the coverage then seek damages against any pub misusing it''s coptrighted material. Pubs may see the gains in income not wortgh the possible loss in fines and damages.

The rights are up for renewal. I doubt the Premier League will simply continue as it is with various prices across different EU member states with pubs choosing to access live football from the cheapest source.

The only realisatic way of changing this is for fans to boycott these broadcasts and so reduce the sales/income. I doubt that will happen and that is why the Premier League know that they are onto a guaranteed winner - and will be doing their level best to ensure they continue to get the maximum return from their ''product''.

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It won''t take much to make the pubs bottle out if there''s the possibility of losses through fines and damages. And I think some are being a bit short sited and will lose trade in the long run. It''s ok for designated sports bars to show the games but other pubs are risking finding themeselves empty on a Saturday afternoon if the broadcasts are stopped.

 

 

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"It''s just sad and shameful that it had to take the European Courts to reach this conclusion and that our own justice system originally arrived at a conclusion that is illegal and punished an innocent citizen. "

I''m not sure if that is strictly correct, as I doubt our High Court has European wide jurisdiction. Their ruling would have been based on contract law as it stood in the UK.

It took the European court to rule that the Premier League European licenses were unlawful.

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[quote user="City1st"]"It''s just sad and shameful that it had to take the European Courts to reach this conclusion and that our own justice system originally arrived at a conclusion that is illegal and punished an innocent citizen. "

I''m not sure if that is strictly correct, as I doubt our High Court has European wide jurisdiction. Their ruling would have been based on contract law as it stood in the UK.

It took the European court to rule that the Premier League European licenses were unlawful.[/quote]It is basically correct, the English courts have to try and give a judgement which corresponds to European rules on freedom of goods and freedom of workers, obviously that didn''t happen in Karen''s initial case, but it sure will if it is going back to the High Court.

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