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Liam

Norwich City 2011 accounts released

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It''s a bit irrelevant now because we''ve got totally different finances following promotion. Even if we''re relegated we get 4 years of parachute payments.

What it does show is what a fantastic job the board and Paul Lambert have done.

Very few clubs in the Championship break even unless they have parachute payments. To win promotion is a special achievement, its usually a case of gambling to win promotion but we''ve done it on a sensible budget and should now reap the financial rewards.

I do wonder what the exceptional costs are though.

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"The figures up to the year ending May 31 2011 showed a £4m loss. But that was down to the welcome situation of the club having to pay out more than £4.3m in player and staff bonuses when promotion to the Premier League was achieved."

Blimey, no wonder the players were ''going for it'' .

i would be curious to know how that figure was broken down, but I doubt we will ever learn that.

Curious to know where the other 2,500 seats will go (if there is to be another 5,500 stuck on the main stand) if, as stated, the target is to be 35,000 seats.

Otherwise we are in a very positive position, and long may it continue.

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So the exceptional costs are player bonus'' etc on winning promotion. In affect the club has just about broken even.

The redevelopment of the City stand is reliant on us having 3 years of Premier League football because of the obvious build costs and further loss of ticket revenue. That is still a long way off because we''re going to be in a battle this season.

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[quote user="Sports Desk Pete"]More here, including potential redevelopment of Carrow Road...

http://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/norwich_city_reveals_it_annual_accounts_and_its_hopes_for_the_future_1_1091088
[/quote]

 

That answers the question of whether the Turners would want their £2.5m back. And it means most of the £4m debt we have paid off has been personal (non-interest) rather than bank (interest-laden) debt.

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"] Very few clubs in the Championship break even unless they have parachute payments.

[/quote]

While they talk about a normalised profit of £0.5m. they also talk about a £4m. loss.  If you look at the headline figures you miss things such as the probable debt servicing holiday (they had mentioned in the previous Accounts) saving the capital payment of approx. £1m and most  of the interest £2.4m not being paid. This keeps the cash in the NCFC bank account. Then theres the cost called depreciation which doesnt actual result in cash moving out of the NCFC bank account.

Thus we may have the following scenario:

Normalised profit                                                                           £0.5m

Depreciation                                                                                  £1.6m

Interest                                                                                          £2.4m

Capital payment                                                                             £1.0m

Staff bonus                                                                                   (£4.3m)

                                                                                                   ----------

                                                                                                   £1.2m

Add the cash, £2.1m (source: last Accounts)  from the sale of the Orange car park and may be some from working capital and you can understand how the Net Indebtedness  has fallen by £4.1m.

It will be interesting to see how much they will receive for the second part of the land sale.

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Sports Desk Pete"]More here, including potential redevelopment of Carrow Road...

http://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/norwich_city_reveals_it_annual_accounts_and_its_hopes_for_the_future_1_1091088
[/quote]

 

That answers the question of whether the Turners would want their £2.5m back. And it means most of the £4m debt we have paid off has been personal (non-interest) rather than bank (interest-laden) debt.

[/quote]

 

Anyone know where they sit at the matches thsese days[:^)]

 

 

 

 

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Just behind the players dugout

they reckon they have got a better view this season

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I thought the most interesting comment was that they plan to pay down a futher 6m of debt this year. It appears that the the bank loans for the property and the Turner loans have been repaid which just leaves the long term loan notes for the stand and the loans to the existing directors. The question is are the directors being repaid which does not improve the external financial position of the club but may make it easier to sell the club; or are the loan notes being repaid early in order to reduce interest costs and pave the way for new loans to expand the capacity. Also are 6m payments ongoing or will they be reduced after this season leaving more money for the playing squad? Hopefully now than the bank loans and turner loans have been cleared there will be more cash for the squad increasing our chances for survival next season.

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[quote user="T"]I thought the most interesting comment was that they plan to pay down a futher 6m of debt this year. It appears that the the bank loans for the property and the Turner loans have been repaid which just leaves the long term loan notes for the stand and the loans to the existing directors. The question is are the directors being repaid which does not improve the external financial position of the club but may make it easier to sell the club; or are the loan notes being repaid early in order to reduce interest costs and pave the way for new loans to expand the capacity. Also are 6m payments ongoing or will they be reduced after this season leaving more money for the playing squad? Hopefully now than the bank loans and turner loans have been cleared there will be more cash for the squad increasing our chances for survival next season.[/quote]

 

Since we only paid off £1.5m of non-personal debt (unless we took on more debt, which I doubt) then it''s unlikely we have paid off all of our bank debt. Apart from anything else, the deadline for that is 2013.

 

But if the club ever gets round to sending the accounts to shareholders (last year they were available immediately on a PDF on the day they were released/spun to the press) then there might be some answers to these questions.

 

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PC the loan notes plus the peronal debt excluding the Turners comes to about 16m which is the figure in the report. However, my accounts were lost in the post last year so I was admittedly working off 2009 accounts. Hopefully, I will get the e-mail accounts this year and it will be clearer but still interesting to know what the 6m going forward are for and what that means in terms of funds available for the squad and what it indicates about the position of the owners and future investment in capacity. I''m not making any judgements just curious about the future plans and hopeful it means that if we manage to stay up this year more money will be available to compete financially with the likes of WBA and Wolves rather than repaying debt. Whatever happens the position now looks a lot healthier.

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[quote user="T"]PC the loan notes plus the peronal debt excluding the Turners comes to about 16m which is the figure in the report. However, my accounts were lost in the post last year so I was admittedly working off 2009 accounts. Hopefully, I will get the e-mail accounts this year and it will be clearer but still interesting to know what the 6m going forward are for and what that means in terms of funds available for the squad and what it indicates about the position of the owners and future investment in capacity. I''m not making any judgements just curious about the future plans and hopeful it means that if we manage to stay up this year more money will be available to compete financially with the likes of WBA and Wolves rather than repaying debt. Whatever happens the position now looks a lot healthier.[/quote]

 

T, if you are as sad as me, and want to see those 2010 accounts, this link has a Click Here for a PDF:



http://www.canaries.co.uk/page/NewsDetails/0,,10355~2234274,00.html

 

As far as bank (as opposed to loan note) debt is concerned, this time last year it stood at £3.5m. So if we have reduced overall debt by £4m, with £2.5m of that going to the Turners, it looks as if bank debt can only have gone down at most by £1.5m. But we shall see.

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Thanks PC. I thought they said in the original article 6m had been paid off but I see now there has only been a net 4m reduction. However, wasn''t there some more personal loans injected? so many more of the bank loans have been repaid and the personal loans have increased? I suspect there is also a backlog on the loan notes to repay this year. What I would really like to know is will we have more cash for the squad next year if we stay up after clearing the loans this year or will the cash be limited by paying back the directors or accelerating the loan note repayments. With such a close correlation between the final league position and the wage bill it is a critical football question as much as a boring finance question.

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T

I read the £6m to be the amount they expect to reduce the debt by during this season (2011 - 12).

Without the Accounts in our hands, I think you are right regarding the £4.1m reduction in the debt consisting of:

£2.5m loan from the Turners being paid off

£0.6m loan relating to the residual on the land loan

£1.0m loan re the office etc.

 

So the external (exc directors) debt consists of:

Loan notes

A small loan described as others in the 2010 Accounts, £0.3m if I remember correctly - may be from friends of the directors???

B Prefs held by the public

 

Then there are the directors loans and their B Prefs.

 

However the Accruals  in note 17 (Creditors due within one year) of last year (2010) Accounts seem £3m higher than normal and I wonder if it reflects the interest and capital payments not actually paid due to the debt servicing holiday during 09-10. So it will be interesting to see whats happened to the accruals figures in the 2011 Accounts just published.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Tangie, That makes sense although I would have thought the accruals would be something else although I have no idea what. Hopefully the loan situation will become clearer once the accounts are released although they may just show when the loan payments are legally due rather than any early or discretionary payments. I am slighly concerned at the prospect of the mention of accelerating the debt payments beyond what is required. Dare I say this new Board may be setting prudence over ambition. I have always been for working within our means unlike some other clubs but not at the risk of increased probabaility of relagation. The web chats with the Board seemed to have stopped so I guess the AGM will be the only opportunity to better understand the plans for the future.

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