Just how much damage did Roeder cause at Norwich.

[Indy 3,471]

The more you hear and read about Roeder the more you start to question the man’s ability in football management.

After the latest statement from Huckerby you have to question the man, no wonder no other club has gone anywhere near him since his total demolition of Norwich City.

I used to feel sorry for the guy through all his illnesses but the more I read and know the more I just don’t like the man.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

I''ve met Roeder a couple of times and always found him quiet a nice guy - very funny in fact. But I have also heard through conversation with some of his ex-players that he is a very different character when at work.

 

Huckerby himself says he had no doubts of his knowledge or ability, and this is a common theme, he is well respected by many in the footballing world. His man management abilities are without question fairly poor though.

 

I feel Roeder was in an impossible position at Norwich, fans and board with high expectations but no money to work with and many poor players on very high wages.

 

Also, if Huckerby was going to players and telling them to not sign for Norwich because he has a personal problem with the manager - then he should have been kicked out of the club.

[Guest]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

I''ve met Roeder a couple of times and always found him quiet a nice guy - very funny in fact. But I have also heard through conversation with some of his ex-players that he is a very different character when at work.

 

Huckerby himself says he had no doubts of his knowledge or ability, and this is a common theme, he is well respected by many in the footballing world. His man management abilities are without question fairly poor though.

 

I feel Roeder was in an impossible position at Norwich, fans and board with high expectations but no money to work with and many poor players on very high wages.

 

Also, if Huckerby was going to players and telling them to not sign for Norwich because he has a personal problem with the manager - then he should have been kicked out of the club.

[/quote]Not quite sure what I''m reading here - you felt he was in an impossible position at Norwich with no money, yet he spent over 2 million quid just on bringing in temporary loans?As for your comments regarding Hucks - well, I find it disappointing that you are siding with someone who very nearly destroyed the club, as opposed to an absolute club legend who always did his best for us. Ultimately the manager should always have the final say, but he disgraceful treatment of Huckerby ultimately brought about his downfall.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="I.S."][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

I''ve met Roeder a couple of times and always found him quiet a nice guy - very funny in fact. But I have also heard through conversation with some of his ex-players that he is a very different character when at work.

 

Huckerby himself says he had no doubts of his knowledge or ability, and this is a common theme, he is well respected by many in the footballing world. His man management abilities are without question fairly poor though.

 

I feel Roeder was in an impossible position at Norwich, fans and board with high expectations but no money to work with and many poor players on very high wages.

 

Also, if Huckerby was going to players and telling them to not sign for Norwich because he has a personal problem with the manager - then he should have been kicked out of the club.

[/quote]

Not quite sure what I''m reading here - you felt he was in an impossible position at Norwich with no money, yet he spent over 2 million quid just on bringing in temporary loans?

As for your comments regarding Hucks - well, I find it disappointing that you are siding with someone who very nearly destroyed the club, as opposed to an absolute club legend who always did his best for us. Ultimately the manager should always have the final say, but he disgraceful treatment of Huckerby ultimately brought about his downfall.
[/quote]

 

But think about what the story is - an replace Roeder with Lambert and Huckerby with Steven Smith. Imagine if Steven Smith had told another player not to join Norwich because they had a personal problem with each other. Would you side with the player in that circumstance? Or would you want him out of the club straiight away?

 

One player is never bigger than the club and despite who the manager is, he is the boss and the highest authority at the club - go against him and you deserve to be out - like Tevez and Mancini.

[crabbycanary 2]

Or you could read it another way in that Hucks loved the Club so much, that he didn''t want it to (potentially) go any lower, and just wanted to halt the slide?

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

I agree with Bethnal to a certain extent. The club was a mess when Roeder took the job in October 2007, I don''t remember ever feeling as down as I did after the QPR defeat on Sky; even more so than after the relegation and 7-1.

We had a terrible squad, yet 1 of the most expensive and best paid in the division. Roeder did his best to strip it but with over-paid players on the books he had little room to manoeuvre.

Tactically he was pretty good and actually brought in some decent players but clearly his man-management let him down and ultimately the players didn''t perform for him.

[Guest]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="I.S."][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

I''ve met Roeder a couple of times and always found him quiet a nice guy - very funny in fact. But I have also heard through conversation with some of his ex-players that he is a very different character when at work.

 

Huckerby himself says he had no doubts of his knowledge or ability, and this is a common theme, he is well respected by many in the footballing world. His man management abilities are without question fairly poor though.

 

I feel Roeder was in an impossible position at Norwich, fans and board with high expectations but no money to work with and many poor players on very high wages.

 

Also, if Huckerby was going to players and telling them to not sign for Norwich because he has a personal problem with the manager - then he should have been kicked out of the club.

[/quote]Not quite sure what I''m reading here - you felt he was in an impossible position at Norwich with no money, yet he spent over 2 million quid just on bringing in temporary loans?As for your comments regarding Hucks - well, I find it disappointing that you are siding with someone who very nearly destroyed the club, as opposed to an absolute club legend who always did his best for us. Ultimately the manager should always have the final say, but he disgraceful treatment of Huckerby ultimately brought about his downfall.[/quote]

 

But think about what the story is - an replace Roeder with Lambert and Huckerby with Steven Smith. Imagine if Steven Smith had told another player not to join Norwich because they had a personal problem with each other. Would you side with the player in that circumstance? Or would you want him out of the club straiight away?

 

One player is never bigger than the club and despite who the manager is, he is the boss and the highest authority at the club - go against him and you deserve to be out - like Tevez and Mancini.

[/quote]I have read the story - and as far as I can tell, Huckerby says he specifically did not speak to Dejan Stefanovic purely because he did not want to undermine any potential deal. It''s reported that Huckerby''s agent is a bit of a tool, so no surprise he went on to use a private view for his own gain.Secondly, I completely agree with your opinion on the manager being the ultimate authority at a club, but if it is true that his man-management is so poor that he calls a fans'' favourite a "has-been" in front of his team mates, then he deserves everything he gets. Trying to compare the Hucks/Roeder and Smith/Lambert scenarios strikes me as a rather desperate defense of him, because I can never imagine Lambert having the arrogance to behave in such a suicidal manner.I was very happy when Roeder signed as our manager, but it turned out he was an extremely arrogant man who thought he was bigger than the club and its fans. Hucks, for all his faults, did his very best for us at all times and obviously has a clear affection for the club. Whatever he might have done to undermine Roeder pales in comparison to what Roeder did to undermine the club and the fan-base in my opinion.

[canarydan23 4,762]

I think Bethnal has missed the point. Huckerby had been released by the club at the point of the Dejan scenario.

We signed Stefanovic in the close season following Huckerby''s departure. He was still using Colney to train and maintain his fitness, but after the Stefanovic issue, Roeder refused him access to the grass at Colney and only permitted him to use the gym at certain times.

He did not go against his manager. He went against a former manager who had treated him disgracefully during his time under him.

[Indy 3,471]

But let’s not forget how he was towards the fans here from day one! The players under him all appear to have very negative comments about the man and I’m sure outside football he might well be a very nice guy who knows his stuff, but knowing it and applying it are two very different things.

For me he made some strange choices here, he made some poor remarks and died on his sword, the trouble was behind him he left this club on the brink, with a manger who never managed before he went decimated the team, signed far too many loan players.

Now the more you read on how he treated his family, his players and the fans the more I just can’t take to the man, sorry.

[smooth 114]

I was working at the club when roeder was announced as manager.

He followed poor old grant and the worthless worthy, who failed dramatically during the premiership season and the following season. A season that I will never forgive him for.

So damage had been coming through since the middle of worthys reign through to the awful mess when the club decided that gunn was the answer.

Following Roeder moving on, the club made it clear that Roeder was a gamble. Within football the thought is over the short term he is very capable, but over the long term his appointment is not.

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

I am sitting here rubbing my eyes in sheer disbelief at what I am reading.

 

I cannot believe that some people are defending Roeder!!! [:@][:@][:@]

 

You''re very quick to point out that Roeder was the manager and (that in your view) Huckerby undermined him (something I don''t agree with). Yet you conveniently fail to mention the disgraceful, dispicable treatment of Huckerby by Roeder. Belittling him as he did in front of the rest of the squad, treating him as an outcast and completely casting him aside. I don''t think it is difficult to see why Huckerby didn''t like him. If what is printed in the article is accurate, all Huckerby did was speak to hs own agent and refused any contact with Stefanovic. Huckerby also refused to make public the disgraceful treatment he suffered at the hands of Roeder.

 

Huckerby could easily have sold a story or two but he obviously didn''t want to upset anything at Norwich in what were obviously difficult and worrying times.

 

The comments suggesting almost that Roeder worked miracles with no money are as laughable as they are dillusional.  How many loans did Roeder bring in? How much did these loans cost? Roeder was far from faced with an impossible task with no money. Roeder could be the best tactition in the world but that counts for diddly squat if you man management is horrendous. Whether or not Glenn Roeder was a brilliant tactition, even had he been the best in the world, that translates to nothing when your man management skills are dreadful.

 

Even if one were to believe that Roeder was faced with an IMPOSSIBLE task with little or no money, then what about Paul Lambert, or do we just forget about him?

 

Darren Huckerby always has Norwich''s best interests at heart and his actions of the way he handles or has handled himself in the past has shown this to be true.

 

Of course though, who am I to get in the way of a good story. Darren''s treatment of Glenn was disgusting and if Glenn had just had a bit more support from the board and a decent amount of money to spend he''d have us sitting in the top of the Premiership right now wouldn''t he?

 

Wonder what Roeder''s signings and loans are doing right now?[:^)]

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

Two observations. One is that this "legend" nonsense (which really should just be for children, like Father Christmas) gets in the way of sensible discussion.

 

Secondly, this is one side of the story. Huckerby''s side. Roeder, if he went public, might put what happened in a different context. Without his version it is impossible to make cast-iron judgments.

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Two observations. One is that this "legend" nonsense (which really should just be for children, like Father Christmas) gets in the way of sensible discussion.

 

Secondly, this is one side of the story. Huckerby''s side. Roeder, if he went public, might put what happened in a different context. Without his version it is impossible to make cast-iron judgments.

[/quote]

 

Oh FFS, if you sit on there too long you might fall off!

[hucks@dh6.co.uk 0]

I''ve dealt in facts, nothing more nothing less, i didn''t speak to Dejan at all, for the exact reason i wanted the club to do well, i would never tell a player not to sign for Norwich, i''ve been 100% fair with my Roeder comments, many people wouldn''t have been!

[Shack Attack 0]

Hucks is in a win-win situation here as there are a significant number of fans who can''t wait to hear him slag off a man who many blame for our relegation to League One. Talk about a captive audience! But you are not going to get a balanced opinion in a former players autobiography. I don''t doubt that what is reported in the book is true but we are only getting one side of the story and it is a story told to make as much money from NCFC fans as possible. There is nothing wrong with that but people need to bear that in mind. Would we take all of the information in offer in a Glenn Roeder autobiography in such a trusting manner without Hucks having his say?

 

I won''t buy it as in my experience sporting autobiographies are pretty dull unless there is some genuine controversy/pain/triumphs/tragedy which the author wants to spill the beans on. Plus I have to take exception to the title of this one. Great heights? Hucks was magnificent for us but that is a little over the top.

[William Darby 0]

Let''s be honest.  It''s fairly obvious Roeder did come across as an arrogant tosspot, the AGM was well documented with his attitude to fans questions.  Therefore it''s no surprise he was a bit of a ''James Hunt'' towards to players.What he was like leaning on the fence talking to his neighbour about sheds and lawnmowers is totally different.

[BW 0]

Don''t know why bethnal you are saying hucks got involved when if you read it, it says he didn''t with the dejan transfer. Roeder was a bad person, a scumbag and bad things happen to scum bags. All karma

[Raymond De Waard 0]

I assume the post above Shack Attack''s here is from Darren himself................So Hi Darren, hope all is good!

Shack Attack. I can''t really work out what your aim is with what you are saying in the above posts? If you are a whole hearted Norwich fan then the view on this is so simple.

Look what Darren Huckerby brought to Norwich. One of the most incredible and exciting footballers i''ve had the pleasure of watching. Worth my season ticket money alone to watch him play when he joined the club and far too many brilliant memories to list them all at this point in time.

Now look at what Roeder brought to the club!???

Actually, you don''t even need to look at what Roeder did to the club because what Hucks did for us and how he has become a full-blown fan and completely passionate about NCFC is enough to believe what he says in his autobiography. I personally, wouldn''t even care about Roeder''s side.

I know a couple of players from when i was at aschool who were playing for Norwich while Roeder was there. They have said exactly the same thing about Roeder''s man-management, people skills and all round persona liek Huckerby has stated in his book.

I believe this to be true from what i know but groundsman at the time who cared for the pitches at Colney during Roeder''s time here had just finished his job of cutting them and re-lining them. he had one more pitch to complete and was half way through. Roeder told the groundsman to get off that specific training pitch as he wanted to use it. (Although the other pitches were in perfect order and just been completed).

Apparently he was like this on a regular basis. Now compare this with something else i have been told that Lambert respects the job the groundsman does and he asks the groundsman which pitch is ok for him and his players to train on.

Such a simple request and a bit of respect for the groundsman. Would it really have been so hard for Roeder to have shown this same level of respect!?

Darren, i''m looking forward to buying and reading your book.

Shack Attack.........I really don''t agree with where you are going in Roeder''s defence!?

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Jamie Cureton probably doesn''t have a bad word to say about Roeder.

All I know is: he left us stripped of player assets due to money wasted on copious loan signings. Compare this to Paul Lambert who has progressively increased the value of our stock ie if we get relegated what price a Johnson, a Morison or a Tierney.

I suspect Hucks found it hard to let go of a Club which clearly meant so much to him to play for and come to term with his injury; but there are ways to treat people and that extends to others who see how their colleagues are treated.

Roeder is a short term troubleshooter but he appears to lack not only man-management skills but also the ability to identify players outside of Premier League academies.

[lake district canary 4,830]

Lots of people forget how difficult it was after having been in the premier league. Relegation, while not inevitable, was a realistic possibility, and the side that got us there pretty much disappeared. So by the time relegation happened we were left with no real back up plan or continuity. Worthington struggled, Grant and Roeder struggled, it was very difficult to raise any positivity.

You can blame managers, directors whoever you want, but if the feeling overall in the club is negative, its very difficult to break out of it. Going down and down is a difficult cycle to stop. Say what you like about Roeder, Gunn etc but they were fighting to reverse a downward mindset.

The lowest point (1-7) proved to be the point at which things started to improve. it was without doubt possibly the worst and best things to have happened at NCFC.

Look at the result - we''re now in the premiership again with a good team and manager, who look like they won''t make the same mistakes!

Football is about ups and downs, its all part of the mix. Roeder looked to be a good choice to start with, but he was up against it given the club''s situation.

It''s all history now anyway. If Roeder damaged the club it couldn''t have been that much, because we don''t look too bad at the moment!

[swindonyellow 0]

I can not believe that Hucks has had to come here and defend himself.

I have been reading these boards for a long while now, but decided not to join in the past, however, after reading this article I couldn''t stop myself, so this is my first and possibly last post!

Hucks is, quite simply put, a modern NCFC legend. I have supported the club since I was 6 in 1982 and there have been some quality players in the short time I have supported the club, and Hucks deserves his place in the hall of fame. For what he brought to the club was unmistakable. Flair, Passion, Skill, to name a few. And he ultimatley came to love the club as much as its fans loved him. I for one think Hucks should never have been released, and still had at least one more season to give to the club. The fact he wasn''t given the opportunity to do so still disgusts me. He could have been the difference that season that we needed. I would love Hucks to be a major part of this club in the future in any sort of capacity, but hopefully, when he has acheived his coaching badges, coach the youth team (as a starting point) and learn from Culverhouse and Lambert.

Hucks was and still is Yellow and Green. To still have the love for a club that treated him so badly in the end, says a lot about his character. I have never met him, but would  love to be able to shake his hand and say thank you for what you did to for me as a fan of the club. Watching him play was a joy.

Roeder is not a legend. Huckerby is. please give the man the respect he deserves.

I''ve had my say, I will now shut up and go away again .

I await both barrells!!!

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Hucks is in a win-win situation here as there are a significant number of fans who can''t wait to hear him slag off a man who many blame for our relegation to League One. Talk about a captive audience! But you are not going to get a balanced opinion in a former players autobiography. I don''t doubt that what is reported in the book is true but we are only getting one side of the story and it is a story told to make as much money from NCFC fans as possible. There is nothing wrong with that but people need to bear that in mind. Would we take all of the information in offer in a Glenn Roeder autobiography in such a trusting manner without Hucks having his say?

 

[/quote]

 

Precisely. It would be interesting to know if the EDP has asked Roeder for a comment.

 

The other point I would make is that people seemed a bit shocked that Roeder was a bit of a bastard. Unless I am very much mistaken, being a bit of a bastard is part of the make-up of all successful managers. O''Neill is a sweet-talking devil but everything I have heard about him suggests there is  real steel underneath it. And a large part of Ferguson''s succces is down to him ruling by fear.

 

The difference with Roeder is that after a very successful first season (which seems to have been air-brushed out of history by some) it went wrong in the second season. So his arrogance suddenly looked unjustified. Secondly, he made the PR mistake of not bothering to conceal his arrogance from fans. Which, again, would have been forgiven if he had carried on being successful.

[BW 0]

swindon i feel your anger. however this is the pinkun and its full of morons.

[T 191]

[quote user="Gene Tierney"]Let''s be honest.  It''s fairly obvious Roeder did come across as an arrogant tosspot, the AGM was well documented with his attitude to fans questions.  Therefore it''s no surprise he was a bit of a ''James Hunt'' towards to players.What he was like leaning on the fence talking to his neighbour about sheds and lawnmowers is totally different. [/quote]

or others may think it was amusing and well deserved put down

[Raymond De Waard 0]

Swindonyellow................I am standing up and applauding your view! Well said mate! :-)

[Bury Yellow 2]

Well Purple, it is unfortunate that I find you on the side of Bethnal and Shack. Both these two have struck me over the months as similar characters.

These are characters one often meets in the football world. They seem to think they have extra terrestrial powers and thoughts way beyond the poor misguided supporter. To show their superiority they often display a contrary nature to a fact that puts them in a minority.

As you suggest Purple, if the great Roeder disputes Hucks account, he is free to take legal action. Additionally he can consider calling Bethnal and Shacks as witnesses of course.

[First Wizard 0]

Ratty was a nasty spiteful bugger imo.

[BW 0]

Too right wiz. Anyone knows what he is doing now or is his hiding in his hole?

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Well Purple, it is unfortunate that I find you on the side of Bethnal and Shack. Both these two have struck me over the months as similar characters. These are characters one often meets in the football world. They seem to think they have extra terrestrial powers and thoughts way beyond the poor misguided supporter. To show their superiority they often display a contrary nature to a fact that puts them in a minority. As you suggest Purple, if the great Roeder disputes Hucks account, he is free to take legal action. Additionally he can consider calling Bethnal and Shacks as witnesses of course.[/quote]

 

---

 

Bury, I have to say I don''t agree at all with your assessment of Shack and Bethnal as posters. Leaving this issue aside, I find myself often in agreement with them, and even if I don''t agree I generally find their views interesting.

 

As to what Roeder might have to say, I didn''t for a moment suggest Huckerby''s account was false. I have no reason to believe it is. Only that it is his version, from his partial point of view,and there are almost always two sides to a story. Roeder''s account might shed a different light on events. Or it might not. But unless we hear it we don''t know.

[Bury Green 0]

Firstly my thanks to DH, an absolute city legend, supporter (sat next to you a few times at away games) and now for telling the truth about one of the lowest points in the clubs history.

It’s interesting to see the comments from other contributors about there being two sides to every story and yet I suspect in this instance there isn’t.

You could say the same about Robert Chase although I suspect many of you would disagree with that, it’s a given that he dipped his hands in the till and sold the club down the river aided of course by the clubs bankers at the time?

The shameful treatment of DH is backed up by plenty of circumstantial evidence that has now been made far more definite by the release of his book and I suspect we are all a bit happier for it.

In the overall order of things were it not for the total ---- up made by Roeder and then Gunn we would not now be in the best position we have enjoyed in eighteen years so to my way of thinking Huxgate was a big nail in the coffin of Roeder’s managerial career. Whilst obviously pretty painful for him did, I think, it did pave the way for much better times.

The tragedy is of course he wasn’t able to take part on the pitch in the clubs recovery and meteoric rise.