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LeJuge

I'd rather go down like Blackpool.....

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If it means playing attacking football with Hoolahan and Jackson on the pitch. Entertain me Norwich, entertain me.

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[quote user="valiant"]i''d rather stay up playing like stoke.[/quote]We don''t have the players to play like Stoke. We have the players to score like Blackpool. We aren''t going to be able to play like Stoke with our defence, simple as. Our only hope is to go all out attack and try to score one more than we concede. Stoke have got Higginbotham, Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate, Upson and Wilkinson. They also have two quality goalkeepers in Begovic and Sorenson. We haven''t bought the right type of players to play like Stoke, but with Hoolahan, Holt, and Jackson, we have the ability to score more goals if we play the right system. Asking our defence to play like Stoke is a little like asking our attack to play like Manchester United.

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[quote user="valiant"]hmm didn''t look like we had ability to score today, foster didn''t make a save.[/quote]I''m not sure what part of my statement you don''t understand, but by going down like Blackpool we would playing a completely different type of football with completely different players. We aren''t playing offensive football mate, we are playing Worthington football. If we were to go all out attack, we would have had Hoolahan on from the start, probably Jackson too, and we wouldn''t be playing both Johnson and Crofts in the middle. An attacking Norwich team would, in my opinion, include Hoolahan, Fox, and Jackson; with Holt of course. You know, the team that got us promoted? Playing attacking football? By scoring goals?

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="valiant"]hmm didn''t look like we had ability to score today, foster didn''t make a save.[/quote]

I''m not sure what part of my statement you don''t understand, but by going down like Blackpool we would playing a completely different type of football with completely different players. We aren''t playing offensive football mate, we are playing Worthington football.

If we were to go all out attack, we would have had Hoolahan on from the start, probably Jackson too, and we wouldn''t be playing both Johnson and Crofts in the middle. An attacking Norwich team would, in my opinion, include Hoolahan, Fox, and Jackson; with Holt of course. You know, the team that got us promoted? Playing attacking football? By scoring goals?
[/quote]

wake up guys all this players is very good for championship but gap is too big also bad luck +refferes against us all the time  make things impossible at the moment

Simply we can''t play same formation who we used in league 1 at top level and to hope to survive it is not 1989 it is 2011...

Seems PL try differnet things but we loose too izi pts against average teams at home so time for experiments is not much

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[quote user="Boris"]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="valiant"]hmm didn''t look like we had ability to score today, foster didn''t make a save.[/quote]I''m not sure what part of my statement you don''t understand, but by going down like Blackpool we would playing a completely different type of football with completely different players. We aren''t playing offensive football mate, we are playing Worthington football. If we were to go all out attack, we would have had Hoolahan on from the start, probably Jackson too, and we wouldn''t be playing both Johnson and Crofts in the middle. An attacking Norwich team would, in my opinion, include Hoolahan, Fox, and Jackson; with Holt of course. You know, the team that got us promoted? Playing attacking football? By scoring goals? [/quote]

wake up guys all this players is very good for championship but gap is too big also bad luck +refferes against us all the time  make things impossible at the moment

Simply we can''t play same formation who we used in league 1 at top level and to hope to survive it is not 1989 it is 2011...

Seems PL try differnet things but we loose too izi pts against average teams at home so time for experiments is not much

[/quote]Please explain how that formation won us a point away at Wigan whilst we won zero points at home today then? There are very few Norwich fans who don''t want to see Hoolahan and Fox in the team, and nobody said that we have to play the diamond  to accommodate them.

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yeah but we didn''t start with hoolahan, fox or jackson, so MATE, what part pf my statement did you not understand. I said TODAY we did not look like we had the ability to score, not last season.

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Well thats what were trying to do, were not playing a different game.

All thats different is were trying different systems, i would say not getting the luck in front of goal, but i reckon our shot to goal ratio from last season was pretty poor as well.

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[quote user="valiant"]yeah but we didn''t start with hoolahan, fox or jackson, so MATE, what part pf my statement did you not understand. I said TODAY we did not look like we had the ability to score, not last season.[/quote]

I said:  but

with Hoolahan, Holt, and Jackson, we have the ability to score more

goals if we play the right system.

You said: hmm

didn''t look like we had ability to score today,

I said: If

we were to go all out attack, we would have had Hoolahan on from the

start, probably Jackson too, and we wouldn''t be playing both Johnson

and Crofts in the middle.

You

said:
yeah but we didn''t start with hoolahan, fox or jackson, so

MATE, what part pf my statement did you not understand. 

I am misunderstanding? Or are you misunderstanding?

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Well thats what were trying to do, were not playing a different game.

All thats different is were trying different systems, i would say not getting the luck in front of goal, but i reckon our shot to goal ratio from last season was pretty poor as well.[/quote]Are we trying to play like Blackpool? I don''t think we are, if we were we would have Fox spreading the ball around like Charlie Adam, and probably Hoolahan beside him. We played TWO defensive midfielders today, at HOME, thats negative tactics, almost Worthington-esque. Blackpool typically played one deep centre midfielder and allowed Adam to be the playmaker, which is what we need Fox or Hoolahan doing in every game, at least one of them. With Surman not exactly being an offensive threat either, it was a particularly uncreative work horse type team. If we don''t have two fit wingers (Bennett and Pilkinton basically), then we need a Hoolahan in my opinion. When we do have the two wingers fit whats the point in having them on the pitch if we don''t have a Fox or Hoolahan playing 40 yard balls to the wings? I seldom see Crofts hit the ball any further 15 yards, Johnson isn''t a passer, we didn''t have any decent passers on the field. Negative non-attacking tactics.

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Sorry didn''t get your point.

Were not actually going to play the same system and formation as Blackpool are we?

I thought you mean''t go out and try to win every game, playing attacking football etc....

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Sorry didn''t get your point.

Were not actually going to play the same system and formation as Blackpool are we?

I thought you mean''t go out and try to win every game, playing attacking football etc....[/quote]A middle four of Crofts, Johnson, Surman, and Bennett, with a front two of Holt and Martin, isn''t what I would call a positive starting line up for a home game against almost certain relegation rivals. Obviously our opinions differ somewhat, my idea of positive attacking football would involve Fox, Hoolahan, and probably Jackson, on the pitch. We were completely ineffective in until Hoolahan came on, we must be the only team in the league willing to play without a playmaker. All attacking teams have a playmaker, tell me, who was supposed to be our playmaker today? Who are the playmakers in our team? In my opinion we had our playmakers on the bench. That is my point. The Jackson suggestion is as a result of the complete lack of pace that we possessed up front. Look at any decent attacking team, they have a playmaker and a quick forward. We didn''t have either. How we could ever have expected to create chances today is beyond me, what with Surman looking lifeless all year. We were reliant on Bennett having a good game I suppose, but we didn''t have anybody with the ability to play him in. We had an attacking substitutes bench, I''ll give you that one.

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Surman, Martin, Bennett. In answer to your playmaker question.

Quick forward, you don''t need one. Stoke don''t have one (yes i know Stoke play a completely different game style, and have completely different players)

It wasn''t a negative team, Lambert had faith that the players he picked, in the formation he picked could do the job, they didn''t. Wether that is down to inability or luck or just a bad day at the office who knows. We created enough chances, based on the BBC''s highly inaccurate statistics we have quite a lot of shots.

Martin, Holt, Bennett and Surman should all be able to create chances, with Johnson and Crofts providing support to attacks with either Naughton or Tierney out wide helping out. Its more than attacking enough if it works right, it didn''t work right today.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Surman, Martin, Bennett. In answer to your playmaker question.

Quick forward, you don''t need one. Stoke don''t have one (yes i know Stoke play a completely different game style, and have completely different players)

It wasn''t a negative team, Lambert had faith that the players he picked, in the formation he picked could do the job, they didn''t. Wether that is down to inability or luck or just a bad day at the office who knows. We created enough chances, based on the BBC''s highly inaccurate statistics we have quite a lot of shots.

Martin, Holt, Bennett and Surman should all be able to create chances, with Johnson and Crofts providing support to attacks with either Naughton or Tierney out wide helping out. Its more than attacking enough if it works right, it didn''t work right today.[/quote]If anybody expected Surman to do anything today then they are on a different planet. Chris Martin is a striker, he shouldn''t have been required to play so deep, they were rubbish tactics. So what''s the plan then? How were they going to score? Martin puts the ball out wide to Bennett, we hope that Bennett has his crossing boots on, and Holt will get a head on it? It''s one dimensional stuff, so bereft of ideas and options. For me it was rubbish, we can agree to disagree, we didn''t look a threat going forward.I love the way that you use statistics in this argument. I''ll give you some facts using the same stats:
  • West Brom had the most possession.
  • West Brom had more shots on target.
  • West Brom had more corners.
  • West Brom were the away team.
We looked useless, like relegation certainties, no threat whatsoever. Hoolahan and Jackson would change that. This is Worthington football, I never expected to see it from Lambert.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="valiant"]i''d rather stay up playing like stoke.[/quote]

We don''t have the players to play like Stoke. We have the players to score like Blackpool.

We aren''t going to be able to play like Stoke with our defence, simple as. Our only hope is to go all out attack and try to score one more than we concede.

Stoke have got Higginbotham, Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate, Upson and Wilkinson. They also have two quality goalkeepers in Begovic and Sorenson.

We haven''t bought the right type of players to play like Stoke, but with Hoolahan, Holt, and Jackson, we have the ability to score more goals if we play the right system. Asking our defence to play like Stoke is a little like asking our attack to play like Manchester United.
[/quote]

 

Couldn''t agree more.

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Were are you getting your possession stats from?

Stats i saw had us having more.

And if they did, then thats just because Foster had it loads, and they probably count the time from when he kicks it to when Rudd catches it at the other end. It certainly did not appear to me that WBA had more of the ball.

We were not useless, and to be honest you comments seem very anti-NCFC, why?

They weren''t negative tactics, get over yourself, If you think you know better, get yourself down to Colney tomorrow and tell Lambert. Yes it didn''t work today, but what your saying is just wrong.

One dimensional

We looked useless

No threat whatsoever

Jackson would change that

This is Worhthington football

IF anybody expected Surman to do anything today then they are on a diffrent planet.

Sorry Le Judge, but i don''t think i will be reading your ridiculous posts anymore, don''t mind if you feel the same way. But to be honest i''m just ashamed that a Norwich fan can be so critical of a performance that wasn''t half as bad as you make it out to be.

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[quote user="LeJuge"]
So what''s the plan then? How were they going to score? Martin puts the ball out wide to Bennett, we hope that Bennett has his crossing boots on, and Holt will get a head on it? It''s one dimensional stuff, so bereft of ideas and options. For me it was rubbish, we can agree to disagree, we didn''t look a threat going forward.

I love the way that you use statistics in this argument. I''ll give you some facts using the same stats:

  • West Brom had the most possession.

  • West Brom had more shots on target.

  • West Brom had more corners.

  • West Brom were the away team.

We looked useless, like relegation certainties, no threat whatsoever. Hoolahan and Jackson would change that. This is Worthington football, I never expected to see it from Lambert.
[/quote]

 

What I don''t understand is it feels like we are playing the tactics in the wrong games. We are playing defensive at home and attacking away. Surely we should attack at home where we are more likely to win? And defend away and grind out a point.

 

Still I''d rather we went the below in every match: (When all are fit of course)

 

Naughton  De Laet  Barnett  Tierney

                   Fox     Johnson

Bennett         Hoolahan      Pilkington

                     Jackson

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Were are you getting your possession stats from?

Stats i saw had us having more.

And if they did, then thats just because Foster had it loads, and they probably count the time from when he kicks it to when Rudd catches it at the other end. It certainly did not appear to me that WBA had more of the ball.

We were not useless, and to be honest you comments seem very anti-NCFC, why?

They weren''t negative tactics, get over yourself, If you think you know better, get yourself down to Colney tomorrow and tell Lambert. Yes it didn''t work today, but what your saying is just wrong.

One dimensional

We looked useless

No threat whatsoever

Jackson would change that

This is Worhthington football

IF anybody expected Surman to do anything today then they are on a diffrent planet.

Sorry Le Judge, but i don''t think i will be reading your ridiculous posts anymore, don''t mind if you feel the same way. But to be honest i''m just ashamed that a Norwich fan can be so critical of a performance that wasn''t half as bad as you make it out to be.[/quote]"Were are you getting your possession stats from?"I told you, I''m using your own source, the BBC. It has us at 48% v 52%. "They weren''t negative tactics, get over yourself, If you think you know

better, get yourself down to Colney tomorrow and tell Lambert.
"So we all have to agree on everything on this board? I was gutted with our performance today, I''m expressing my own opinions, you have yours and I have mine. They differ substantially, but sometimes people disagree. The whole "if you know better" line is tiring, I take it you have never disagreed with a tactical decision then? I will remember this, and when the day comes that I see you being downbeat, I''ll play that line on you."Sorry Le Judge, but i don''t think i will be reading your ridiculous posts anymore, don''t mind if you feel the same way."Well sorry mate, but I don''t feel the same way. I have already agreed to disagree, which is the grown up way to deal with differing opinions. I will continue to read your posts, sometimes I will agree with them and sometimes I will disagree with them, but please don''t object if I remind you of your promise the next time you respond to one of mine. "But to be honest i''m just ashamed that a Norwich fan can be so critical

of a performance that wasn''t half as bad as you make it out to be."
It wasn''t half as good as you seem to think it was. I thought they were rubbish, you didn''t, simple stuff.  

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[quote user="Downloads"][quote user="LeJuge"]So what''s the plan then? How were they going to score? Martin puts the ball out wide to Bennett, we hope that Bennett has his crossing boots on, and Holt will get a head on it? It''s one dimensional stuff, so bereft of ideas and options. For me it was rubbish, we can agree to disagree, we didn''t look a threat going forward.I love the way that you use statistics in this argument. I''ll give you some facts using the same stats:

  • West Brom had the most possession.

  • West Brom had more shots on target.

  • West Brom had more corners.

  • West Brom were the away team.

We looked useless, like relegation certainties, no threat whatsoever. Hoolahan and Jackson would change that. This is Worthington football, I never expected to see it from Lambert. [/quote]

What I don''t understand is it feels like we are playing the tactics in the wrong games. We are playing defensive at home and attacking away. Surely we should attack at home where we are more likely to win? And defend away and grind out a point.

Still I''d rather we went the below in every match: (When all are fit of course)

Naughton  De Laet  Barnett  Tierney

                   Fox     Johnson

Bennett         Hoolahan      Pilkington

                     Jackson

[/quote]I''d be happy with that formation, in fact I would be happy for Crofts and Johnson to play together in a five man midfield. That is a similar formation to Blackpool''s, only they played one deep midfielder and two centre mids in front, with the wingers playing really advanced, and the two centre mids drifting out wide to cover the wingers..... almost alternating between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3. I''m not sure what formation I want to see us play, but it would be one that incorporates Hoolahan, whether that is the diamond or 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-1-2 or whatever, he is class and we need him on the pitch.

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Its probably a silly thing to say i''m going to ignore you.

Yes of course we can have different opinions, and doesn''t matter what either of us say were probably not going to change our minds.

Your last sentence, i didn''t think it was a good game, neither team played wonderfully, but we were better than WBA, and certainly not rubbish. If that was us playing rubbish then i would actually be much happier than i am now, the reason i''m quite down beat at the moment, is because we failed to win when we played fairly well.... Same as the last three games. Seriously, if the loss were just down to a poor performance that would be much easier to take, than a loss after a decent performance.

Of course it wasn''t the best performance, and on reflection the tactics didn''t work. But i really don''t think they were negative, and i really don''t think we were poor. But there is definatly room for improvement which should give us hope. I don''t think any of us should be making rash judgements on what the whole season will be like until after we have played (and beaten :P) Bolton and Sunderland. (Not saying that you are)

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If we were to play the 4-2-3-1 formation, I would probably cry if Jackson were the man upfront....

I know many people rate him, and i am very grateful for all his important goals last season, but like some people think Martin isn''t up to prem standard, i don''t think Jackson will be. Of course i will be more than happy to have him prove me wrong...

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Its probably a silly thing to say i''m going to ignore you.

Yes of course we can have different opinions, and doesn''t matter what either of us say were probably not going to change our minds.

Your last sentence, i didn''t think it was a good game, neither team played wonderfully, but we were better than WBA, and certainly not rubbish. If that was us playing rubbish then i would actually be much happier than i am now, the reason i''m quite down beat at the moment, is because we failed to win when we played fairly well.... Same as the last three games. Seriously, if the loss were just down to a poor performance that would be much easier to take, than a loss after a decent performance.

Of course it wasn''t the best performance, and on reflection the tactics didn''t work. But i really don''t think they were negative, and i really don''t think we were poor. But there is definatly room for improvement which should give us hope. I don''t think any of us should be making rash judgements on what the whole season will be like until after we have played (and beaten :P) Bolton and Sunderland. (Not saying that you are)[/quote]I do have a tendancy to take Norwich defeats a little too much to heart, and I do overly worry, and it is early days. So hopefully after the Bolton and Sunderland games we will either take our first 3 points, or perhaps remain undefeated in those, and I will chirp up. Unfortunately any less than 2 points in those two games and I can''t promise to become any more positive, that will be 17% of the season gone already, with the easiest start to the season (in terms of opposition) imaginable in this league.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]If we were to play the 4-2-3-1 formation, I would probably cry if Jackson were the man upfront....

I know many people rate him, and i am very grateful for all his important goals last season, but like some people think Martin isn''t up to prem standard, i don''t think Jackson will be. Of course i will be more than happy to have him prove me wrong...[/quote]I wouldn''t play him up front alone either, so we agree there. I do rate him though, and do think that Jackson and Holt work well together up front.

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[quote user="Downloads"]Not saying I have all the answers but playing with 2 wingers and 2 defensive central midfielders is not the answer![/quote]Good to see that you agree with that part Downloads, about the two defensive midfielders, especially not in a flat 4-4-2..... in a five man midfield maybe.

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Crofts scored 8 goals last season. I''m fairly sure he isn''t limited to the position of DM, as they don''t tend to score 8 goals a season, even in the Championship unless they take free-kicks.

I would also argue that Johnson and Crofts were fairly attacking today, neither sat back in their own half all game....

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I will be very surprised if Jackson succeeds at this level. Last season it struck me how often, & how easily, he was knocked off the ball. Players in the Prem are generally extremely strong on the ball. This was Grant''s biggest attribute last year, but it''s clearly nothing out of the ordinary against these defences. Strikers at the top level need to be very strong, as well as quick off the mark.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Crofts scored 8 goals last season. I''m fairly sure he isn''t limited to the position of DM, as they don''t tend to score 8 goals a season, even in the Championship unless they take free-kicks.

I would also argue that Johnson and Crofts were fairly attacking today, neither sat back in their own half all game....[/quote]Hoolahan scored 9 and set up 9 though, most of the latter for Holt. For me, Hoolahan makes Holt tick. Fox created a bunch too.

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