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Hannibal

What is our best team?

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I think its pretty much a given that most succesful teams are those with a settled side. So far this season we have played 4 games with 4 differing line ups. This would suggest that PL does not know what his strongest team is. what would you say our best team is? I would really like to see us try the 433 with the ball / 451 with out the ball this would be in my opinion the strongest team but would ask a lot of Grant

                          Ruddy

Naughton  De Laet   Barnett   Tierney

              Johnson      Crofts

                      Hoolahan

Bennett                                  Pilkington

                       Holt  

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Whilst I like the look of your team I don''t think that we can pick the same team, week in week out.What I do think is important though is to have a settled back 4, that gain understanding and the ability to communicate effectively, I feel this has been a factor in costly mistakes so far.

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I like the look of that team but whilst I love Holt and everything he brings to the team, I would rather a lone striker to have a bit of pace as well as putting himself about. I think when fully fit Vaughan may be one to watch, although he may have lost some pace due to injuries, I believe he will still be quick and is also known for his strength, commitment and plays the game with passion. I''m looking forward to him becoming fully fit.

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Or it could mean lambert doesn''t want to be predictable and takes each opposition as they come and sets up the team how he thinks best to deal with them and the way they''re set up.

As was stated on here before the Stoke game, they spent a lot of time training on how to deal with the threat of hoolahan, so for him to then not be playing must have caught them by surprise and put them on the back foot. Also had it not been for an unjust red card we would have more than likely won that game.

At Wigan away we approached it quite rightly attackingly and took the game to them, and again against Chelsea although we started with 5 at the back we had very attacking wing backs and most importantly hoolahan was on the pitch showing lambert was really going for it with a bit of caution in defence.

So so far I think he''s got the formations right. Shame pilkington was injured for yesterday as I think with 2 wingers we would have seen more chances created out wide as with surman it was more through the middle or wide using the full backs that then left us exposed to the counter attack. But lambert''s reasoning seems to be that 4-4-2 at home with attacking wingers Bennett and pilkington we''ll create plenty of chances (which against Stoke we did, and to some extent yesterday) and away from home, take the game to the opposition using wes to torment their defence.

I personally am not at all bothered at seeing 4 different sides in 4 games-shows faith in the squad and keeps teams guessing- something we have to do without big star names that can simply win games with their quality. For us it definitely is a squad game.

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Hoolahan would always be in my team. Personally I think the side in the original post is our best side and would like to see that team on the pitch on a regular basis. Yes, occasionally we will need to change due to injuries and for tactical reasons but i would like to see us play our won game more (especially at home) and pick our best players. Who is to say hoolahan would not have opened up Stoke had he played.

I think the stoke line up can be justified but i do think lambert got the starting line up wrong against Chelsea (thankfully we changed it early when Whitbread got injured) and again yesterday. Thankfully lambert is a quick learner and I therefore believe (and very much hope) we will see Wes featuring far more regularly from now on. He simply must start our next two homes games and we must go on the offensive.

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[quote user="Hannibal"]

I think its pretty much a given that most succesful teams are those with a settled side. So far this season we have played 4 games with 4 differing line ups. This would suggest that PL does not know what his strongest team is. what would you say our best team is? I would really like to see us try the 433 with the ball / 451 with out the ball this would be in my opinion the strongest team but would ask a lot of Grant

                          Ruddy

Naughton  De Laet   Barnett   Tierney

              Johnson      Crofts

                      Hoolahan

Bennett                                  Pilkington

                       Holt  

[/quote]

I just don''t see where the goals are coming from in that team. I

can''t see more than 3 or 4 from Bennett all season, maybe 5 or 6 for

Wes, 10 maybe for Holty but not in that line up and then the odd 1 or 2

from others- Pilkington I haven''t seen enough of to have a feeling about

yet.

Your team would keep the goals against column to a minimum (still

going to be shipping at least one in every game playing a defensive line

up in this league though). What does that leave at the end of the

season- 8 or 9 draws and 3 or 4 victories.... nowhere near 30 points let

alone survival!

We need a side that has an out ball- I believe that is why both Holt

and Martin are playing... it allows for two places to hit and stops the

defence being able to just mark the out ball out of existence. Then

support has to come from the midfield- out wide and down the middle...

the ball back to Wes is the ideal one as he can beat a man and pick his

pass. Who does he pass to though? Has to go wide at the moment and this

area is not performing well... only Tierney seems viable and he has to

leave us exposed to do that from left back. Then a cross to CM or GH-

both decent in the air but not going to be a high percentage in this

league, or a pull back to Wes or Crofts on the edge of the box... again,

from 18-20yrds out the percentages aren''t great when the defence hasn''t

been pulled apart to make the chance... but if anyone can drag

defenders out of position to create a gap to shoot through in our squad

it would be the front two that started yesterday.

In your line up there is only one out ball to Holt or the deeper one

to the wings. The wings are not strong enough to run from deep- maybe

then tuning inside to Wes or Crofts or Johnson- but by now the defence

has regrouped and they have to be broken down again. This ultimately

leaves only one in the middle and one to pull back to from a wide attack

and little or no option through the middle- too predictable and too

easy to deal with for the Prem.

If there aren''t 2 up top we are in trouble because we don''t have a player who can hurt the opposition without support and we don''t have pace in the center of midfield to get there to support.

What''s the best team? I don''t know... but I am sure it needs at least 2 up front and Hoolahan from the start.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"].....whatever it is, it most definately contains Wes Hoolahan and you can work backwards from there[/quote]Agreed. Any starting 11 that doesn''t include Hoolahan is not our best team.

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I agree with the Op particularly at home. Of course we also regularly use 3 subs and mine would be Morison, Vaughan and 1 other depending upon injuries/state of the game

I do have doubts about De Laet if he continues to make BIG mistakes just about every game

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Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.

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[quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]I posted this earlier somewhere already but...While Tierney is keeping him out of the side at LB I''d love to see him pushed on to the left of the diamond with Drury behind him.

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[quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]Surely Tierney has been one of our top 3 or 4 players this season so far? I haven''t seen Tierney make a major mistake yet? Not only do I consider Tierney to be by far our best defender so far, not including goalkeeper because Ruddy for me has been immense, but Drury has looked past it for about 6-9 months. I wasn''t at the MK Dons game, but two people commented that they couldn''t believe how bad Drury looked. Now, if you can find us a centre back who never commits unless he knows he will win the ball, then that would be a dream right now. We don''t seem to have any kids who can play centre back, why is that? We had Dumic and Stephens at the club at one point who both looked pretty decent, anybody in the youth team? Shackell came into the team in the Premier season and was a revelation!

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[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]I posted this earlier somewhere already but...While Tierney is keeping him out of the side at LB I''d love to see him pushed on to the left of the diamond with Drury behind him.[/quote]If we were to play a diamond formation, wouldn''t you want Crofts at the bottom of the diamond, and then Bradley Johnson on the left of the diamond? Or perhaps Surman or Lappin? I can''t see the sense in playing a left back on the left side of a diamond when we have three players who are perfect for that position. In the case of Surman, you could argue that the left side of the diamond is the only position which seems to get the best out of him. I personally want to see something like this though....                               RuddyMartin    Whitbread     De Laet      Tierney                             Crofts                  Fox                 HoolahanBennett                                                Pilkington                         Holt / Morison With Bennett and Pilkington effectively meaning that we switch between a 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 throughout the game. We know that both Pilkington and Bennett can score goals. Hoolahan could even go more advanced when Pilkington and Bennett drop deeper, so at times we could see....                       RuddyMartin    Whitbread     De Laet     Tierney               Bennett    Fox           Crofts         Pilkington                               Hoolahan                 HoltYou have three different formations there using precisely the same set of players. Hoolahan and Pilkington could even switch. That for me is an exciting top half of the pitch. I''d happily have Johnson or Surman in there somewhere, but I never want to see the uninspiring line up that we saw at West Brom again. Playing Crofts and Johnson together in a flat 4-4-2, I just didn''t understand it, not when we have people who can pass the ball like Hoolahan and Fox sitting on the bench.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]Surely Tierney has been one of our top 3 or 4 players this season so far? I haven''t seen Tierney make a major mistake yet? Not only do I consider Tierney to be by far our best defender so far, not including goalkeeper because Ruddy for me has been immense, but Drury has looked past it for about 6-9 months. I wasn''t at the MK Dons game, but two people commented that they couldn''t believe how bad Drury looked. Now, if you can find us a centre back who never commits unless he knows he will win the ball, then that would be a dream right now. We don''t seem to have any kids who can play centre back, why is that? We had Dumic and Stephens at the club at one point who both looked pretty decent, anybody in the youth team? Shackell came into the team in the Premier season and was a revelation![/quote]Thats why I feel Tierney in midfield makes sense- he has been great going forward and defending and you kind of feel Drury could almost play as a 3rd CB when we don''t have the ball... 442(diamond) with and 352 without.

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[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]Surely Tierney has been one of our top 3 or 4 players this season so far? I haven''t seen Tierney make a major mistake yet? Not only do I consider Tierney to be by far our best defender so far, not including goalkeeper because Ruddy for me has been immense, but Drury has looked past it for about 6-9 months. I wasn''t at the MK Dons game, but two people commented that they couldn''t believe how bad Drury looked. Now, if you can find us a centre back who never commits unless he knows he will win the ball, then that would be a dream right now. We don''t seem to have any kids who can play centre back, why is that? We had Dumic and Stephens at the club at one point who both looked pretty decent, anybody in the youth team? Shackell came into the team in the Premier season and was a revelation![/quote]Thats why I feel Tierney in midfield makes sense- he has been great going forward and defending and you kind of feel Drury could almost play as a 3rd CB when we don''t have the ball... 442(diamond) with and 352 without.[/quote]For me, taking our best defender out of a so-far very shaky back four makes absolutely no sense to me. Why make a nervous and probably slightly weak back four even weaker? That''s a little like Liverpool deciding that Saurez has been playing really well up front they should put him on the right wing and start Andy Carroll every week. Tierney is at the top of his game in his natural position, moving him would be purely stupid, and frankly it would remind me of Worthington playing Simon Charlton in centre midfield or Roeder playing Darel Russell up front.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]I posted this earlier somewhere already but...While Tierney is keeping him out of the side at LB I''d love to see him pushed on to the left of the diamond with Drury behind him.[/quote]If we were to play a diamond formation, wouldn''t you want Crofts at the bottom of the diamond, and then Bradley Johnson on the left of the diamond? Or perhaps Surman or Lappin? I can''t see the sense in playing a left back on the left side of a diamond when we have three players who are perfect for that position. In the case of Surman, you could argue that the left side of the diamond is the only position which seems to get the best out of him. I personally want to see something like this though....                               RuddyMartin    Whitbread     De Laet      Tierney                             Crofts                  Fox                 HoolahanBennett                                                Pilkington                         Holt / Morison With Bennett and Pilkington effectively meaning that we switch between a 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 throughout the game. We know that both Pilkington and Bennett can score goals. Hoolahan could even go more advanced when Pilkington and Bennett drop deeper, so at times we could see....                       RuddyMartin    Whitbread     De Laet     Tierney               Bennett    Fox           Crofts         Pilkington                               Hoolahan                 HoltYou have three different formations there using precisely the same set of players. Hoolahan and Pilkington could even switch. That for me is an exciting top half of the pitch. I''d happily have Johnson or Surman in there somewhere, but I never want to see the uninspiring line up that we saw at West Brom again. Playing Crofts and Johnson together in a flat 4-4-2, I just didn''t understand it, not when we have people who can pass the ball like Hoolahan and Fox sitting on the bench. [/quote]I''m not even sure it was a flat 4-4-2 was it?It seemed to me more like 2 holding one left mid and a right winger! Agreed that I don''t want to see that again!As for Crofts holding the base of the diamond- for me no, although he does it very well I think we need to use his ability in the top half of the field so I would put him on the right with license to come in and support the attack.Hoolahan has to be the tip of the diamond or playing off Holt for me as he doesn''t have the pace or power to burst from deeper regularly enough.                         RuddyNaughton  De Laet  Barnett  Drury                      JohnsonCrofts                                 Tierney                      Hoolahan           Martin/Vaughan   HoltCould work for me as without the ball it could be:                                 Ruddy

Naughton  De Laet  Barnett  Drury   Tierney

                             Johnson      

Crofts                                 Hoolahan

                         Martin/Vaughan                                  Holtand going forward could be:                         Ruddy

         De Laet  Barnett  Drury

                      Johnson

Naughton                                 Tierney

                Crofts      Hoolahan

           Martin/Vaughan   Holt

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Felixfan"]Need Drury back - has premier league experience and never commits unless he knows he will win the ball. Good going forward as he can interact well with a left winger. Remember how he and Huckerby mastered the left side.[/quote]Surely Tierney has been one of our top 3 or 4 players this season so far? I haven''t seen Tierney make a major mistake yet? Not only do I consider Tierney to be by far our best defender so far, not including goalkeeper because Ruddy for me has been immense, but Drury has looked past it for about 6-9 months. I wasn''t at the MK Dons game, but two people commented that they couldn''t believe how bad Drury looked. Now, if you can find us a centre back who never commits unless he knows he will win the ball, then that would be a dream right now. We don''t seem to have any kids who can play centre back, why is that? We had Dumic and Stephens at the club at one point who both looked pretty decent, anybody in the youth team? Shackell came into the team in the Premier season and was a revelation![/quote]Thats why I feel Tierney in midfield makes sense- he has been great going forward and defending and you kind of feel Drury could almost play as a 3rd CB when we don''t have the ball... 442(diamond) with and 352 without.[/quote]For me, taking our best defender out of a so-far very shaky back four makes absolutely no sense to me. Why make a nervous and probably slightly weak back four even weaker? That''s a little like Liverpool deciding that Saurez has been playing really well up front they should put him on the right wing and start Andy Carroll every week. Tierney is at the top of his game in his natural position, moving him would be purely stupid, and frankly it would remind me of Worthington playing Simon Charlton in centre midfield or Roeder playing Darel Russell up front. [/quote]I know where you are coming from but I''m just trying to see a way for us to be effective going forward- Tierney has been coming forward with great effect and I am yet to see anyone playing left mid that looks like they can do anything from there.The thinking is purely to let him do what he has been doing well more often so he doesnt have to worry as much about getting back if the move breaks down- the left back is there to be cover if he is caught forward.Just putting Tierney to left mid in the same system would indeed be daft!

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