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what is the point of the premier league?

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From the title of my post you might think that i am disilusioned with the premeier league already, well i think i am.

Firstly whats the point in a competion that you cannot win, in the old first division there was always one of the so called smaller teams at or very near the top of the league for most of the season I can remember QPR southhampton Ipswich and coventry all making a season long challenge, even when the prem started we were the main small club challengers, then the money started to flow to the big clubs and the rest were left behind.

Secondly we have the stupid situation with refs so far this season 4 games 4 penalties against only one of which (chelsea) can be justified, bigger clubs (even WBA and Wigan) get all the descisions and this is mot only this season I can remember back to 2004-05 the same thing was appenning then.

The only consolation is the money we earn for being there, great we are financaly secure, but we are only there to make up the numbers so that the big teams have someone to play against.

There is one other good thing at least my 13 year old son will get to see Rooney etc.

So you may think I want us to get relegated, of course not but it would be nice to have a level playing field, may be the only way this could be achieved is to create a european league for the money bag clubs, may be a max of 8 clubs playing each other 4 times plus playing in one domestic cup competion. How long before the fans and media get bored with the same fixtures week in week out,then they could come running back and the smaller clubs could have more say on the money distribution. The european league would do away with the boring champions leauge just another money making scam for the already rich clubs

Dont worry I love Norwich City with a passion and will enjoy a season and I hope more in the prem but I want to see a more even distrbution of money and players

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We''ve mocked the Scottish League system for years with it''s 2 club dominance, and I''m afraid our ''top'' league is going the same way. Equally many of the leagues on the continent have a handful of dominant clubs and the rest make up the numbers.It''s time a Euro League was set up for the big money boys and our domestic league revamped before it dies.

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i have felt the same in the past. the only problem with a `super league` is that after the top 4,5 or 6 teams have left, by natural order, the next richest teams be it villa, sunderland,fulham... whoever would become the dominant force, and a new `big` 4` would establish itself.it`d only be competitive for a season or so, then become turgid again for the smaller teams at the bottom of the table.

in my own experience as a supporter of mcfc, the last few years have been quite dull overall, no relegation to worry about, and trying to climb out of the championship was enjoyable the last time we did it under keegan. this season and last, the interest factor has gone up again somewhat!. but i do sympathise with you and know where you`re coming from. it`s going to be demoralising to come from a situation where you are winning nearly every game, to one where you are struggling to get even a point.

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Personally i''d like to see salary capping similar to the NFL introduced that way it would create more of a level field for all clubs and hopefully cut out players moving only for money. however if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad.

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salary capping would never work. it works in the states because they are the only people who play the `sports` they do!. can you imagine barca, real, man utd etc etc accepting something to put them at parity with norwich and swansea?. me neither.also as is already starting to happen with the `fair play` rules financially, clubs will get around the rules.

the prem is what it is, it`s not going to change anytime soon i don`t think.

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[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]We''ve mocked the Scottish League system for years with it''s 2 club dominance, and I''m afraid our ''top'' league is going the same way. Equally many of the leagues on the continent have a handful of dominant clubs and the rest make up the numbers.It''s time a Euro League was set up for the big money boys and our domestic league revamped before it dies.[/quote]

Totally agree with the OP and this one. A Euro super league was mooted some years ago and I recall that Arsenal were one of the main supporters. At the time, I was against it but given how the Premiership has become dominated by the big rich clubs I am now fully in favour of it.

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Football as a whole needs to be looked at financially. It''s ludicrous having a club where by one player is worth more than the entire squad of another club in the same league. Of course the detractors will hate the idea of capping, as a) they support one of the ''Super club''s and b) are very probably greedy much like the players. The game is now being run by the players at the top who generally get what ever they wish, including decisions on the pitch it would seem. Create a European league and let the big boys play in that. Cap wages in correlation to support but ensuring it''s still competitive for each league and let football fans get back to supporting players who have pride in playing, not just in their wallets. Never happen.

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i don`t know if the `fans of super clubs` was aimed at me as a man city supporter!!, if it was i`ve got broad shoulders!! :)

i don`t `hate` the idea of salary capping, i am just realistic enough to know that it`ll never happen. without wishing to cast aspersions on the honesty and integrity of various football leagues, just look at the `calciopoly` thing in italy, can`t see them attempting to `bend` the rules much eh?!!.

money has always ruled in the top division. going right back to when preston nth end were paying, by the standards of the day, `fortunes` for players in the 20`s. it`s just that now the sums involved are enormous. given enough time, every top division club will be owned by a billionaire.

not a lot you, or i can do about it.

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I think its just football to be honest better players want to play for bigger clubs and it all comes around in cycles. its not a new thing a few teams dominating the league is it. wolves in the 50''s, Liverpool in the 70s / 80s followed by the United 90''s and a mix of three teams since 2000  (Arsenal, Chelsea and United.) Its easy to forget that Everton are the 4th on the list of all time english league winners with 9 league titles bet i bet no one would concider them in the top 6 biggest clubs in the country. 

Lets be honest Norwich are never going to win the league as we are. The only way would be to stay in this league for a few seasons, increase the size of the ground and make it an attractive option for a wealthy investor to waste their millions on. without that lower to mid table obscurity is the best we can hope for.

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I think City have always managed to punch above their weight. If you look around the leagues you''ll find that similar ''gentile'' towns such as Shrewsbury, Lincoln, Hereford, Bournemouth, Chester et al all struggle.Big conurbations generally have the big clubs... so lets look down at Sheffield, Bristol and Nottingham and be pleased that we are who we are.

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[quote user="exiled blue"]i don`t know if the `fans of super clubs` was aimed at me as a man city supporter!!, if it was i`ve got broad shoulders!! :) i don`t `hate` the idea of salary capping, i am just realistic enough to know that it`ll never happen. without wishing to cast aspersions on the honesty and integrity of various football leagues, just look at the `calciopoly` thing in italy, can`t see them attempting to `bend` the rules much eh?!!. money has always ruled in the top division. going right back to when preston nth end were paying, by the standards of the day, `fortunes` for players in the 20`s. it`s just that now the sums involved are enormous. given enough time, every top division club will be owned by a billionaire. not a lot you, or i can do about it.[/quote]

---

That is quite true, and in football as a whole. There never was a golden age when the playing field was entirely level. But there are two differences now. Firstly, the disparities in wealth are so enormous as to be all but unbridgeable. Secondly, the shift from economics to finance. The wealth of a club used to be based on the local economy. Now it is based on the size of the owner''s back pocket.

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Let us all just enjoy our moment in the sun. Whatever happens we will always fill our ground and if that can be expanded so much the better. We are locally owned,locally supported and will soon be self sufficient.

Results will always go in cycles until you find your level and we are probably near the top of the current curve.

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I kind of agree, but its a difficult one. As previously said its all about the money, and the big clubs generate a lot of it for Sky.So lets say the big clubs bugger off and we create a new top division made up of the top 12 from the Championship and the bottom 12 of the Prem(Which I actually quite like the sound of!!) all that would happen is Sky would take their money and throw it at the new European league, and the newly formed top division would basically be funded in the same way as the Championship.It really is all about the money, I am frankly amazed that we actually have as many football clubs outside the Prem surviving as there is.But then again, if we get it right, scrape up somehow this season and build a little then we''ll be buying players the calibre of the ones Stoke did, and we''ll struggle to remember what all the fuss was about.

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I never understand this argument, the Premier League evolves all the time and the clubs change all the time. The likes of Man Utd and Chelsea are no more dominant than Man Utd were in the sixties and seventies, and no more dominant than Liverpool were in the seventies and eighties. There have always been periods in which there have been elite teams, success breeds success. Look at the table in 2001/02.....ArsenalLiverpoolMan UtdNewcastleLeedsChelseaWest HamAston VillaTottenhamBlackburnSouthamptonMiddlesbroughFulhamCharltonEvertonBolton SunderlandIpswichDerbyLeicesterOnly 12 of the teams in that season remain in the Premier League. Arsenal haven''t won anything for five years, Leeds were in the top six and are now less successful than us, West Ham are in the Championship. We now have the likes of Stoke playing in Europe, Everton went on to play in europe several seasons in a row, Tottenham are now a top six team, a 6th place finish is now rubbish for Chelsea. Liverpool have had a few terrible years, 2nd place seemed impossible until Dalglish took over (the mastermind of their great success in the eighties). The money argument is a poor one, it still has to be used properly. In fact if the money wasn''t full of money then Leeds and West Ham wouldn''t be where they are now, they are victims of their own overspending, Southampton are to a certain degree too, they had years and years of SKY money and went down pretty much insolvent. Out of the four league games we have played so far this year, only one was in the Premier League in 2002. Yes it can be hard to stay in the league, but giants can fall too. Football is always evolving, in that same year we finished 6th in the Championship, the top two were Manchester City and West Brom. Yes Man City have money now, but they stayed up with very little for several years before they got it. Wolves finished 3rd that year. On the other side of the coin, in our league that year were Wimbledon, Gillingham, Bradford, Walsall, Grimsby, Rotherham, Stockport, and Crewe. Add to that list Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, and Preston, and only 9 of the teams in the Championship in 2001/02 are in that division now. In the past 7 seasons we have played League one football, Championship football, and Premier League football. This season is our 2nd year of Premiership football in 8 years. Six years less than we desire, but our time may come. Personally I''m just glad that we are still a club capable of getting into the first of four tiers of competitive professional football, rather than one of the ones that are now stuck in the fourth tier, which a little over 2 years ago seemed like a very real possibility.

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If you remove the big glamorous clubs from the Premiership, then surely there''s not too much difference between playing in the top flight or the Championship. I for one would feel no excitement about promotion from the lower division in that event. I do agree that things were a lot better in the good old days of the old First Division, when it was not too rare to watch City beat the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool.

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[quote user="Dan Druff"]If you remove the big glamorous clubs from the Premiership, then surely there''s not too much difference between playing in the top flight or the Championship. I for one would feel no excitement about promotion from the lower division in that event. I do agree that things were a lot better in the good old days of the old First Division, when it was not too rare to watch City beat the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool.[/quote]It was no different then, Liverpool league positions:72/73     1st73/74     2nd74/75     2nd75/76     1st76/77     1st77/78     2nd78/79     1st79/80     1st80/81     not top 381/82     1st82/83     1st83/84     1st84/85     2nd85/86     1st86/87     2nd87/88     1st88/89     2nd89/90     1st90/91     2nd91/92     not top 3If it was any easier to beat Liverpool during their two decades of dominance than it has been to beat Man Utd in their two decades of dominance, then it is because we were simply a better team. Of course, I''m sure that I don''t have to remind you that we DID beat Manchester United in the 2004/05 season? With goals from Ashton and McKenzie and Hucks on fire?

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[quote user="Hannibal"]Personally i''d like to see salary capping similar to the NFL introduced that way it would create more of a level field for all clubs and hopefully cut out players moving only for money. however if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad.[/quote]I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England !!All the so called "stars" would bugger off to Spain and France.And if Fifa decided to throw a rule in then clubs and or players unions would split away.Im affraid its to late !! All we can hope is that there is some kind of fifa or worldwide rule. Although just look at the Cricket Prem league in India. Big money to be had.How long before the Arab Emirates just say, come here we will pay you stupid money and then they have the best league in the world ?!

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Hannibal"]Personally i''d like to see salary capping similar to the NFL introduced that way it would create more of a level field for all clubs and hopefully cut out players moving only for money. however if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad.[/quote]I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England !![/quote]He did say this.

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Hannibal"]Personally i''d like to see salary capping similar to the NFL introduced that way it would create more of a level field for all clubs and hopefully cut out players moving only for money. however if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad.[/quote]I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England !!All the so called "stars" would bugger off to Spain and France.And if Fifa decided to throw a rule in then clubs and or players unions would split away.Im affraid its to late !! All we can hope is that there is some kind of fifa or worldwide rule. Although just look at the Cricket Prem league in India. Big money to be had.How long before the Arab Emirates just say, come here we will pay you stupid money and then they have the best league in the world ?![/quote]He said: "if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad."You said: "I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England!! All the so called "stars" would bugger off to Spain and France."Maybe it was just your use of the word ''but'', but it would easy to confuse you with a parrot there. There is no ''but'', you simply agreed, because you said precisely the same thing. You know, like this....Adam: "I''d love to buy an ice cream, but they don''t have any flakes to go in the 99, I''m not buying a 99 without a flake" John: "I agree, but I''m not buying a 99 without a flake".As oppossed to say.....Adam: "I''d love to buy an ice cream, but they don''t have any flakes to go in the 99, I''m not buying a 99 without a flake"John: "I agree, you have to have a flake".

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Hannibal"]Personally i''d like to see salary capping similar to the NFL introduced that way it would create more of a level field for all clubs and hopefully cut out players moving only for money. however if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad.[/quote]I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England !!All the so called "stars" would bugger off to Spain and France.And if Fifa decided to throw a rule in then clubs and or players unions would split away.Im affraid its to late !! All we can hope is that there is some kind of fifa or worldwide rule. Although just look at the Cricket Prem league in India. Big money to be had.How long before the Arab Emirates just say, come here we will pay you stupid money and then they have the best league in the world ?![/quote]He said: "if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad."You said: "I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England!! All the so called "stars" would bugger off to Spain and France."Maybe it was just your use of the word ''but'', but it would easy to confuse you with a parrot there. There is no ''but'', you simply agreed, because you said precisely the same thing. You know, like this....Adam: "I''d love to buy an ice cream, but they don''t have any flakes to go in the 99, I''m not buying a 99 without a flake" John: "I agree, but I''m not buying a 99 without a flake".As oppossed to say.....Adam: "I''d love to buy an ice cream, but they don''t have any flakes to go in the 99, I''m not buying a 99 without a flake"John: "I agree, you have to have a flake". [/quote]*opposed

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[quote user="morty"]Sweet Jesus, does it really matter that much?[:D][/quote]Yes it does. Nexus Canary called me out for not knowing the word ''pugilistic'' a couple of weeks ago, so it is only fair that I point out that he can''t structure a coherent sentence himself. Other than an occassional tit-for-tat, I always make an effort to never be a grammar, spelling, or vocab nazi.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="morty"]Sweet Jesus, does it really matter that much?[:D][/quote]Yes it does. Nexus Canary called me out for not knowing the word ''pugilistic'' a couple of weeks ago, so it is only fair that I point out that he can''t structure a coherent sentence himself. Other than an occassional tit-for-tat, I always make an effort to never be a grammar, spelling, or vocab nazi. [/quote]Lol, ok.[Y]

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Hannibal"]Personally i''d like to see salary capping similar to the NFL introduced that way it would create more of a level field for all clubs and hopefully cut out players moving only for money. however if this was introduced it would have to be over all football or the best players would simply move abroad.[/quote]I agree but if they introduced a salary cap no one would want to play in England !!All the so called "stars" would bugger off to Spain and France.And if Fifa decided to throw a rule in then clubs and or players unions would split away.Im affraid its to late !! All we can hope is that there is some kind of fifa or worldwide rule. Although just look at the Cricket Prem league in India. Big money to be had.How long before the Arab Emirates just say, come here we will pay you stupid money and then they have the best league in the world ?![/quote]Let''s face it, I could have gone in a lot harder. I don''t want to spend too much time correcting the errors, but being knocked for my vocabulary by somebody responsible for: "Im affraid its to late !!".... well, it is a hard pill to swallow.

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Just when I was starting to think you were not such a big duche as I had at first suspected the Judge.Now firstly can I just point out that joining the 3rd Reich in regards to grammar and spellings is a poor mans arguement.Then lets find out what football club you played for (lol) and why you got your mates sister or w/e (i forget ) to sign you up !!http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/2392252/ShowPost.aspx

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Oh yeh for the record, I teach kids how to sentance stuctuare and gremmar so I think I at least know how to spell and construct a sentanceGo on correct my spellings , jokes on you ! :) :)

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Just when I was starting to think you were not such a big duche as I had at first suspected the Judge.Now firstly can I just point out that joining the 3rd Reich in regards to grammar and spellings is a poor mans arguement.Then lets find out what football club you played for (lol) and why you got your mates sister or w/e (i forget ) to sign you up !!http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/2392252/ShowPost.aspx[/quote]There is no point in learning what words such as pugilistic mean if you couldn''t be a*sed as school. Love the way that I have become the douche.I don''t think it is a matter of joining the Third Reich, more a matter of utter despair at your functional illiteracy. You started this by the way, thank you for teaching me a new word. It''s only fair that I return the favour and encourage you to improve on your grammar and spellings (sic). I hope that you can acknowledge that anonymity on this website is my right and priviledge and that any attempt to try and determine who I am without my blessing would contravene my privacy rights. The idea that I have to tell the world who I am because I am just about competant enough to play a bit of non-league football and got a chance that in reality I didn''t deserve and didn''t take is ludicrious. I was far too slow by the way, if you really want to know. Sorry if I have evoked some level of fascination, but I really am nobody exciting, don''t have a Wikipedia entry because I was ''insignificant'', and have never played for any team that you would ever have seen on a football pitch. Not that I really understand why you really want to know, seeing as my only claim is that I played a few games in leagues with players who earn a few hundred quid a week. There are plenty of inadequate and out of their depth players who manage a few games before heading back to the ninth tier where they belong. I know that it is easy to see that life as rosy, but there are part-time players on rolling deals earning £250 in League Two who are brought in to fill gaps in squads and enable super skint clubs (in the real world) put out reserve teams. I was one of those, any Lowestoft or Wroxham player could do the same thing. Or I could pretend that I am Ronaldinho, if that excites you more? I sell used cars now, I''m better at that and it pays more money, or do car salesmen have Internet stalkers too?

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Oh yeh for the record, I teach kids how to sentance stuctuare and gremmar so I think I at least know how to spell and construct a sentanceGo on correct my spellings , jokes on you ! :) :)[/quote]If you have doubts that I played a few games for sh*te tinpot football clubs, then I can assure you that your doubts are not as severe as my doubts about you teaching kids to do anything. If you really are in anyway responsible for the education of any child, anywhere in the UK, of any level of ability, then I have just completely lost my faith in the education system.

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