THE INJUSTICE - A CUNNING PLAN

[25overpar 0]

On occasions when an incident such as that involoving Vaughan on Sunday or say a ball crossing the goal line and not being given as a goal, why if later seen to be a clear error can''t the FA award one goal in retrospect?  We would have a point from Sunday and so would WBA.  Had WBA been 2-0 up we would not see any benefit points-wise, but at least it would have been one more on the goals for total at the end of the season and we would not feel so aggrieved.  Not only because we ended up with nothing from the game, but also because the next three teams to play WBA will reap the reward that should be due to us. The problem is that the current system only penalises the offending team, but with no recompence to the team against whom the offence was committed. 

I fully expect lots of replies telling me why this wouldn''t work and if so, that''s fine, but can anyone think of some way in which the injustice can be corrected?    

[nutty nigel 7,532]

Injustices have always been part of the game and always will be. I think stuff like goal line technology will ultimately be implemented which will help in some incidents.

 

However the result when the referee blows at the end of the game must always stand. Anything else would be open to unfairness as we have seen in the past where clubs are treated differently by the FA.

 

 

[Mr. Bump 0]

Awarding us a point wouldn''t be fair. There''s every chance we''d have missed the penalty like West Brom did theirs.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="25overpar"]

On occasions when an incident such as that involoving Vaughan on Sunday or say a ball crossing the goal line and not being given as a goal, why if later seen to be a clear error can''t the FA award one goal in retrospect?  We would have a point from Sunday and so would WBA.  Had WBA been 2-0 up we would not see any benefit points-wise, but at least it would have been one more on the goals for total at the end of the season and we would not feel so aggrieved.  Not only because we ended up with nothing from the game, but also because the next three teams to play WBA will reap the reward that should be due to us. The problem is that the current system only penalises the offending team, but with no recompence to the team against whom the offence was committed. 

I fully expect lots of replies telling me why this wouldn''t work and if so, that''s fine, but can anyone think of some way in which the injustice can be corrected?    

[/quote]3 game ban Tomas received....

2 games now and the 3rd saved for when we play them again.As for the penalty there''s nothing that can be done.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

I don''t agree with altering the facts of a game after the event. If

something like that needs to be done then the match should be replayed

or declared void. I don''t think that is a good idea either btw!I

like the idea of the suspension being held over for our next meeting-

but it only works in the first half of the season- there is no point or

justice in rolling into a different campaign, and in this case it could

be years before we meet WBA again in the Premier League!If you

want to really attack this kind of incidence the voiding of the game is

the best idea but then you will get complaints when incidents ARE

seen... imaging WBA score their penalty and we score ours (because the

ref saw and gave it along with a red card) we end up loosing 2-1.Then

imagine the ref missed it and we lost 2-0. But then the incident is

sighted and the game is declared void... difference is WBA get punished

rather than the player.At least both sides feel the injustice I suppose??

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

Its not just goal line tech that needs to be looked at, but the penalty box. Any unsure incident that happens in the box can be reviewed, whether that is handling, foul, ball over line, off ball elbow to the chops. Then the ref/4th official can decide.

Anyone responds telling me it will slow the game down, or any other rubbish excuse. If this was implemented like last weekend, the likely result would have been 1 point to the city.

It works in other sports, Cricket, Tennis, Rugby, and it has not made an huge effect to the game - but at least justice has a chance of being put right!

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

For violent conduct such as this, the player should receive a six match ban (he should miss six league matches). If the player repeats such deliberate violence during the season, he receives a further ban of ten matches.

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

Just thought, it would /could be implemented in games such as Stoke where the foul was outside box, the ref would have given free kick rather than pen. The game the result would not have changed as Ruddy saved, but if/buts/maybe Walters had scored we would be walking out with nil points that day

[211203 0]

I''m just thinking anything allowing a change of result after the game would end up in court like the whole QPR points (not) deducted debacle, so forget the last game of the season, the Premiership title could be decided live in the High Court.  The lawyers could wear team shirts.  Hmmm.

 

Actually couldn''t they do it like the Olympics where drug cheats lose their medals to the 2nd place finisher ?  So because Argentina (allegedly) bribed their way past Peru in 1978, Holland would become World Champions that year, and obviously Argentina would also lose 1986 due to the hand of God, and we''d become Champions that year (OK it''s a bit more tricky than I thought).  Not that I have anything against Argentina, you understand.

 

Just off for a lie down now....

[SwindonCanary 455]

When Zinedine Zidane Headbutted Marco Materazzi in the World Cup Final, it was clear that the Ref did not see it, but he still made the correct decision and sent Zidane off. The rumour was that the fourth official saw a replay of the incident and informed the Ref. All officialdum denied that this had happened. BUT WHY ? They used technology available to them and got it right.Since then monitors have been removed from the dugout areas because Managers kept pointing out Referee''s errors.I find all this unbelievable, The fourth official seems to do very little during the game, he would be better employed to watch the match on a monitor and help the ref with decisions.          

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

Although your idea would work in theory I think it would almost take away the point of playing a game if you could appeal every decision after the match and potentially change the score. However I am a fan of the idea of bringing in video technology as incidents like this shouldnt happen on a frequent basis as they are

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

Watching Man City vs Napoli at moment.

They have the two extra officials behind goal line. Is this another possible for league games as well as European? Its proved to be success in Europa League if its now in Champs League too.

If they do not like tv in dugouts and managers hassling the 4th official, i''m no expert, but it can''t be hard to have a 4th official as usual, and then have a "TV judge" in an enclosed area within stadium who watchs game, and is linked to ref on pitch? This again is something else which happens in rugby!

I might go on about it a lot - but rugby has much less controversy than football. Other than the kick that wasn''t at the world cup this weekend

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="Chelmsford Canary"]Watching Man City vs Napoli at moment.

They have the two extra officials behind goal line. Is this another

possible for league games as well as European? Its proved to be success

in Europa League if its now in Champs League too.

If they do not like tv in dugouts and managers hassling the 4th

official, i''m no expert, but it can''t be hard to have a 4th official as

usual, and then have a "TV judge" in an enclosed area within stadium who

watchs game, and is linked to ref on pitch? This again is something

else which happens in rugby!

I might go on about it a lot - but rugby has much less controversy than

football. Other than the kick that wasn''t at the world cup this

weekend[/quote]

The goal line officials are a joke and a huge waste of time and money-

watch the whole game and then see if either do anything- I''ve watched

many games with them in and not seen one get involved yet. The pecking

order seems to be Ref then 4th official then linesmen and thengoal line

officials. Pointless.

The comparisons to Rugby are unfortunately worthless. Football referees

are a bunch of t@ssers who want to be mates with John Terry while in

Rugby the officials are the proud guardians of the sport.

In Rugby the players respect the referee''s role- just like in Cricket

and Tennis. They know that Rugby is a sport that prides itself on being

hard but fair and played by grown ups.

In football the players are superior to the referee, they believe it and

so do the referees. The players are also allowed to get away with back

chat to the referees and worse. I''m not just talking about Rooney etc

Huckerby was always at it so is Holt.

Unless football takes a genuine stand- not a pathetic ''respect'' campaign

that involves nothing more than a banner and a badge on a sleeve to pro

players- football will always have this cr@p. FIFA doesn''t want to

undermine the referees but they do it to themselves by putting up with

the players antics. If somebody swears at you send them off. If somebody

is aggressive towards you book them. If somebody questions your

decision book them. BUT DO IT EVERY TIME! It will stop in three weeks.

THEN- when the referee has the genuine respect of the players- based on

fear of consequences, training a human is just like training any other

animal, then FIFA can bring in the technology to aid the referee-

probably best to be done in conjunction with a referral system like

tennis and cricket- only the captain or manager can ask for a referral

and they loose one every time they are wrong.

All the time saved by idiotic protests and flapping mouths will more

than make up for a few referrals to the video ref per match.

You might even be able to attract some ex pros (in the conjunction with a

fast track scheme) into refereeing or at the very least some sensible

human beings rather than the bunch of matey wannabe pedants that 99% of

modern referees are.

As for who the extra official should be... pro matches have referees

assessors at them- they can do that job even better with a video screen

so why not just have them do the job- the cost is virtually nil to all

league games in the UK.

Watching this Man City vs Napoli game though maybe we can just clone this ref- seems totally in control.

[methcanary 0]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="Chelmsford Canary"]Watching Man City vs Napoli at moment. They have the two extra officials behind goal line. Is this another possible for league games as well as European? Its proved to be success in Europa League if its now in Champs League too. If they do not like tv in dugouts and managers hassling the 4th official, i''m no expert, but it can''t be hard to have a 4th official as usual, and then have a "TV judge" in an enclosed area within stadium who watchs game, and is linked to ref on pitch? This again is something else which happens in rugby! I might go on about it a lot - but rugby has much less controversy than football. Other than the kick that wasn''t at the world cup this weekend[/quote]

The goal line officials are a joke and a huge waste of time and money- watch the whole game and then see if either do anything- I''ve watched many games with them in and not seen one get involved yet. The pecking order seems to be Ref then 4th official then linesmen and thengoal line officials. Pointless.

The comparisons to Rugby are unfortunately worthless. Football referees are a bunch of t@ssers who want to be mates with John Terry while in Rugby the officials are the proud guardians of the sport.
In Rugby the players respect the referee''s role- just like in Cricket and Tennis. They know that Rugby is a sport that prides itself on being hard but fair and played by grown ups.
In football the players are superior to the referee, they believe it and so do the referees. The players are also allowed to get away with back chat to the referees and worse. I''m not just talking about Rooney etc Huckerby was always at it so is Holt.
Unless football takes a genuine stand- not a pathetic ''respect'' campaign that involves nothing more than a banner and a badge on a sleeve to pro players- football will always have this cr@p. FIFA doesn''t want to undermine the referees but they do it to themselves by putting up with the players antics. If somebody swears at you send them off. If somebody is aggressive towards you book them. If somebody questions your decision book them. BUT DO IT EVERY TIME! It will stop in three weeks.
THEN- when the referee has the genuine respect of the players- based on fear of consequences, training a human is just like training any other animal, then FIFA can bring in the technology to aid the referee- probably best to be done in conjunction with a referral system like tennis and cricket- only the captain or manager can ask for a referral and they loose one every time they are wrong.
All the time saved by idiotic protests and flapping mouths will more than make up for a few referrals to the video ref per match.
You might even be able to attract some ex pros (in the conjunction with a fast track scheme) into refereeing or at the very least some sensible human beings rather than the bunch of matey wannabe pedants that 99% of modern referees are.
As for who the extra official should be... pro matches have referees assessors at them- they can do that job even better with a video screen so why not just have them do the job- the cost is virtually nil to all league games in the UK.

Watching this Man City vs Napoli game though maybe we can just clone this ref- seems totally in control.
[/quote]

Great post Yellow Shirt, totally agree with you. If you are the ref and Rooney etc come running at you swearing and hurling abuse then

just  flash a yellow card at them or even a red card. Like you say it will stop within a few weeks. Then the ref has control and can focus his mind on the game completely and maybe it will help cut out some of the poor decisions being made at the moment.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="methcanary"]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="Chelmsford Canary"]Watching Man City vs Napoli at moment. They have the two extra officials behind goal line. Is this another possible for league games as well as European? Its proved to be success in Europa League if its now in Champs League too. If they do not like tv in dugouts and managers hassling the 4th official, i''m no expert, but it can''t be hard to have a 4th official as usual, and then have a "TV judge" in an enclosed area within stadium who watchs game, and is linked to ref on pitch? This again is something else which happens in rugby! I might go on about it a lot - but rugby has much less controversy than football. Other than the kick that wasn''t at the world cup this weekend[/quote]The goal line officials are a joke and a huge waste of time and money- watch the whole game and then see if either do anything- I''ve watched many games with them in and not seen one get involved yet. The pecking order seems to be Ref then 4th official then linesmen and thengoal line officials. Pointless.The comparisons to Rugby are unfortunately worthless. Football referees are a bunch of t@ssers who want to be mates with John Terry while in Rugby the officials are the proud guardians of the sport.In Rugby the players respect the referee''s role- just like in Cricket and Tennis. They know that Rugby is a sport that prides itself on being hard but fair and played by grown ups. In football the players are superior to the referee, they believe it and so do the referees. The players are also allowed to get away with back chat to the referees and worse. I''m not just talking about Rooney etc Huckerby was always at it so is Holt.Unless football takes a genuine stand- not a pathetic ''respect'' campaign that involves nothing more than a banner and a badge on a sleeve to pro players- football will always have this cr@p. FIFA doesn''t want to undermine the referees but they do it to themselves by putting up with the players antics. If somebody swears at you send them off. If somebody is aggressive towards you book them. If somebody questions your decision book them. BUT DO IT EVERY TIME! It will stop in three weeks.THEN- when the referee has the genuine respect of the players- based on fear of consequences, training a human is just like training any other animal, then FIFA can bring in the technology to aid the referee- probably best to be done in conjunction with a referral system like tennis and cricket- only the captain or manager can ask for a referral and they loose one every time they are wrong.All the time saved by idiotic protests and flapping mouths will more than make up for a few referrals to the video ref per match.You might even be able to attract some ex pros (in the conjunction with a fast track scheme) into refereeing or at the very least some sensible human beings rather than the bunch of matey wannabe pedants that 99% of modern referees are.As for who the extra official should be... pro matches have referees assessors at them- they can do that job even better with a video screen so why not just have them do the job- the cost is virtually nil to all league games in the UK.Watching this Man City vs Napoli game though maybe we can just clone this ref- seems totally in control.[/quote]

Great post Yellow Shirt, totally agree with you. If you are the ref and Rooney etc come running at you swearing and hurling abuse then

just  flash a yellow card at them or even a red card. Like you say it will stop within a few weeks. Then the ref has control and can focus his mind on the game completely and maybe it will help cut out some of the poor decisions being made at the moment.

[/quote]Thanks! 431 posts before someone agrees with me but I knew I''d get one one day! :)

[. 0]

The sin bin idea for dissent, diving or yellow card level foul play would be an instant punishment, meaning the teams involved on the day would be affected rather than maybe aiding another team at a later date.... perhaps a relegation/promotion rival.Not keen on messing about with tradition, but as the game has become more cynical, maybe it needs a new approach in order to tackle the problem.