59'ers ticket holders warned not to sell or give away their complimentary match programmes

[Bleedin Yellow and Green 0]

[quote user="JF"]It''s a shame our defence isn''t as tight as this![/quote] hahaa well said.

I dunno about you but I find the curt tone of that letter offensive and petty.

I posted on here recently (''nevermind the buzzcocks....here''s the common sense'') stating my belief that we need an independent supporter''s voice/forum/group that can engage in discussion with the football club. I got shot down over not really making my point clearly (my own fault for posting at 4am) and admittedly, the common sense was somewhat discretionary. Luckily for me Purple and others posted some excellent responses, helping to define the point along the way and I think it all leads in here. This letter from the club is an absolute joke. As has been previously stated many clubs would love to have the support and fan base we now have. Yet I think we can all say business is business and we expect things like the under 21 system to be drawn into sharp focus.

This instance however is short-sighted penny pinching on the club''s part - the only way i could begin to see it from the club''s perspective is if it turns out that a number of people were taking advantage of the complimentary programmes and taking/getting hold of more than one and passing them on. As someone who has been fortunate enough to sit in the associate director area i''ve been handed a complimentary programme - so as to ensure I only had one so I can''t see it being the case. It seems the club are starting to take things a bit far - they obviously have their (big brother) house in order when it comes to making cash and seemingly are beginning to take fans for granted (dugout seats/OAP age rise/pricing/minimal time to present proof of age/charging for reserve games to season ticket holders etc etc). It''d be a shame if the fans were continually left with a raw deal or didn''t have the voice when we really needed it especially because we didn''t represent ourselves - for whatever reason.

[BW 0]

Mcnally out

[city4eva 209]

As I have said many times, we are no longer a family club interested in bringing in young fans and keeping them. Mcnally has turned the club in to a penny pinching business who dont give a toss about the fans..it may well come back to bite him

[Jim Smith 2,317]

To be honest it doesn''t just say if you give it away inside the ground ot says anyone caught selling their programme.

If there has been a problem with people hoovering up numerous free programmes and flogging them to others inside the ground (which I very much doubt) then at least explain that in the note before handing out a snotty note to season ticket holders, a lot of whom are in their 50''s and 60''s and who i am sure would never dream of flogging their programmes although many probably give them to their grandchildren after the game!

Even if someone has been doing this how much would it cost the club. about £15 a game? Hardly worth insulting your fans over.

[morty 0]

[quote user="city4eva"]As I have said many times, we are no longer a family club interested in bringing in young fans and keeping them. Mcnally has turned the club in to a penny pinching business who dont give a toss about the fans..it may well come back to bite him[/quote]I can see both sides to this.Being a "nice" club is what got us 20 million plus in debt.

[......and Smith must score. 1,341]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="city4eva"]As I have said many times, we are no longer a family club interested in bringing in young fans and keeping them. Mcnally has turned the club in to a penny pinching business who dont give a toss about the fans..it may well come back to bite him[/quote]I can see both sides to this.Being a "nice" club is what got us 20 million plus in debt.[/quote]Morty, there''s always two sides to every argument. Yes, coming down hard on the '' under 21 '' chancers is to be applauded but doing the same to people who''ve sat in that stand for decades over a few measly quid is way out of order.

[morty 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="city4eva"]As I have said many times, we are no longer a family club interested in bringing in young fans and keeping them. Mcnally has turned the club in to a penny pinching business who dont give a toss about the fans..it may well come back to bite him[/quote]I can see both sides to this.Being a "nice" club is what got us 20 million plus in debt.[/quote]Morty, there''s always two sides to every argument. Yes, coming down hard on the '' under 21 '' chancers is to be applauded but doing the same to people who''ve sat in that stand for decades over a few measly quid is way out of order.[/quote]Yes, completely agree with you in that respect. I was more referring to the bigger picture of the fact that we have had comparatively cheap football for quite a few years now, and whilst it has been great for crowd numbers, it has added to the overall debt.

[Ren 75]

You say that we have been cheap compared to others over for years but this simply is not true. Maybe the child offers have been good, but adult pricing at Carrow Road has never been that cheap compaired to our peers.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ren"]You say that we have been cheap compared to others over for years but this simply is not true. Maybe the child offers have been good, but adult pricing at Carrow Road has never been that cheap compaired to our peers.[/quote]Yes, I agree, to some respect. But football is a family business it would seem these days. And the kids season tickets have, frankly, been a steal.I think I worked my two kids prices out (One was under 12, one over) a few seasons as being about 6 quid and 9 quid a game. There has been a deliberate swing in policy now, I think over the next few seasons you''ll see less discount for kids who aren''t in the family area. Lest face it, if you want to make money you''d rather sell a full price ticket than a concession.There is a captive audience here, and the club could frankly take the mickey and still fill the ground.

[Ren 75]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Ren"]You say that we have been cheap compared to others over for years but this simply is not true. Maybe the child offers have been good, but adult pricing at Carrow Road has never been that cheap compaired to our peers.[/quote]Yes, I agree, to some respect. But football is a family business it would seem these days. And the kids season tickets have, frankly, been a steal.I think I worked my two kids prices out (One was under 12, one over) a few seasons as being about 6 quid and 9 quid a game. There has been a deliberate swing in policy now, I think over the next few seasons you''ll see less discount for kids who aren''t in the family area. Lest face it, if you want to make money you''d rather sell a full price ticket than a concession.There is a captive audience here, and the club could frankly take the mickey and still fill the ground.[/quote]

Totally agree. The low cost kids tickets has clearly worked as you get people into the habbit of going to live football and when they become adults (hopefully) they will stick with it.

When NCFC were struggling in L1 I could totally understand it, but now with the millions that come with the prem, is there really such a need?

This penny pinching and snipping at local businesses and TV does grate after a while and in the end people stop buying from the club shop, upgrading STs, buying food in the ground, attending cup and reserve games etc etc.

Accross the board the cost of a match day is getting out of hand and I see even Man U are no longer selling out.

I just hope NCFC see sense when it comes to season ticket renewal time.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ren"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Ren"]You say that we have been cheap compared to others over for years but this simply is not true. Maybe the child offers have been good, but adult pricing at Carrow Road has never been that cheap compaired to our peers.[/quote]Yes, I agree, to some respect. But football is a family business it would seem these days. And the kids season tickets have, frankly, been a steal.I think I worked my two kids prices out (One was under 12, one over) a few seasons as being about 6 quid and 9 quid a game. There has been a deliberate swing in policy now, I think over the next few seasons you''ll see less discount for kids who aren''t in the family area. Lest face it, if you want to make money you''d rather sell a full price ticket than a concession.There is a captive audience here, and the club could frankly take the mickey and still fill the ground.[/quote]

Totally agree. The low cost kids tickets has clearly worked as you get people into the habbit of going to live football and when they become adults (hopefully) they will stick with it.

When NCFC were struggling in L1 I could totally understand it, but now with the millions that come with the prem, is there really such a need?

This penny pinching and snipping at local businesses and TV does grate after a while and in the end people stop buying from the club shop, upgrading STs, buying food in the ground, attending cup and reserve games etc etc.

Accross the board the cost of a match day is getting out of hand and I see even Man U are no longer selling out.

I just hope NCFC see sense when it comes to season ticket renewal time.[/quote]I can understand that the club need to stabilise their debts, but feel a little miffed that the loyalty we have showed through recent lean times has been taken a bit for granted.I think they are going to have to be very careful indeed with season ticket pricing next season indeed. Frankly if we get another season in the Prem then our debt should have vanished, and they have no need to hike prices.Should be very interesting if we up capacity to 35k and a lot of people(myself included) don''t feel they need to buy a season ticket to ensure they see games.

[First Wizard 0]

Oberstanfurher McNally can f*ck off right now with that attitude, what a tragic stance to take.

[morty 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]Oberstanfurher McNally can f*ck off right now with that attitude, what a tragic stance to take.[/quote]Seriously, are you kidding?Would you rather have Doncaster back?Would you rather we give seats away for nothing, slide into debt and eventually fold?

[. 0]

I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.Community club my arse.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.Community club my arse. [/quote]Firstly I am happy to debate this with you if you can remain "common sense" and not go off on some rant about inner circles.Its simple business, they have a product that we want, it always has been the case, it has just become more obvious as the world of football has got massively more expensive.Norwich city can''t afford to be the community club you want them to be without settling for mediocre league positions.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

This is a thread where we can all agree; how unbelievably childishly petty and stupid this diktat is.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="First Wizard"]Oberstanfurher McNally can f*ck off right now with that attitude, what a tragic stance to take.[/quote]

Seriously, are you kidding?

Would you rather have Doncaster back?

Would you rather we give seats away for nothing, slide into debt and eventually fold?
[/quote]

 

Not kidding are you?

 

We''re talking about direct threats to suppoters over what they do with their programmes........jezz!

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......

No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.

Community club my arse.
[/quote]

 

Make a stand Cluck. Stop going to games....

[morty 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="First Wizard"]Oberstanfurher McNally can f*ck off right now with that attitude, what a tragic stance to take.[/quote]Seriously, are you kidding?Would you rather have Doncaster back?Would you rather we give seats away for nothing, slide into debt and eventually fold?[/quote]

 

Not kidding are you?

 

We''re talking about direct threats to suppoters over what they do with their programmes........jezz!

[/quote]Calm down and have a cup of tea.It really isn''t that big a deal, is it? And if you analyse it, from the point of view of Norwich City being a business, that need to turn a profit, it is actually entirely correct.What they did is obviously in response to something, and I doubt very much they have just done this unilaterally.

[. 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.Community club my arse. [/quote]Firstly I am happy to debate this with you if you can remain "common sense" and not go off on some rant about inner circles.Its simple business, they have a product that we want, it always has been the case, it has just become more obvious as the world of football has got massively more expensive.Norwich city can''t afford to be the community club you want them to be without settling for mediocre league positions.[/quote]Morty... the point is, the ground will be full whatever league City are in... so why worry about anything?Once upon a time the gates plummeted when the ownership failed to put good football on the pitch. That isn''t a problem for the club anymore so the fan base have lost their only weapon. It''s ''get what you''re given and pay up'' these days or lose your precious seat to someone else.Stitch up complete.

[Ren 75]

That''s the most important point though Morty, the club issues statements like this and similar (such as the BBC Look East one and the Beer one) and they end up looking childish.

If there was something going on with complimentary programmes they need to advise not just act like a dictatorship.

I know a few appear on ebay, but they never sell for more than the cover price and we are talking 5 or 6 at most, so hardly worth the effort of printing a letter to each supporter? If there was/is a bigger issue then the club should have advised.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.Community club my arse. [/quote]Firstly I am happy to debate this with you if you can remain "common sense" and not go off on some rant about inner circles.Its simple business, they have a product that we want, it always has been the case, it has just become more obvious as the world of football has got massively more expensive.Norwich city can''t afford to be the community club you want them to be without settling for mediocre league positions.[/quote]Morty... the point is, the ground will be full whatever league City are in... so why worry about anything?Once upon a time the gates plummeted when the ownership failed to put good football on the pitch. That isn''t a problem for the club anymore so the fan base have lost their only weapon. It''s ''get what you''re given and pay up'' these days or lose your precious seat to someone else.Stitch up complete.[/quote]I''m not so sure, I think what happens at the end of this season could well be a tipping point. If they hike season ticket prices then they could just stretch that loyalty too far. And if they put the capacity up to 35k then I, for one, won''t be renewing my season ticket as I know it will be pretty likely I can pick up a casual ticket. Perhaps at that point, if our debt is paid off, there will be less emphasis on season ticket numbers as they can actually make more money from casuals, presuming they come, which they will as long as the football is good.I actually agree with what you''re saying to a lot of respects, but what can you do? They have a product that we want.

[Lambert is King 0]

There must be more to this story than meets the eye. There are things that I am quite shocked that are not happening, for instance I thought there would be a ban this year on players signing anything or maybe despite the denials food and drink from outside being banned. Thats what makes me think there is more to this than meets the eye as those measures could save / make the club thousands as opposed to a few quid. If my hunch is wrong and it is just pettiness then the club are out of order in this instance.

 

So come on then whos been a naughty boy or girl and what did you do ? Surely NCISA know whats going on ? And if it is the club being petty has anyone complained except on here ?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ren"]That''s the most important point though Morty, the club issues statements like this and similar (such as the BBC Look East one and the Beer one) and they end up looking childish.

If there was something going on with complimentary programmes they need to advise not just act like a dictatorship.

I know a few appear on ebay, but they never sell for more than the cover price and we are talking 5 or 6 at most, so hardly worth the effort of printing a letter to each supporter? If there was/is a bigger issue then the club should have advised.[/quote]McNally is squeezing every penny he can, making the club into a streamlined business, the fact is that if he wasn''t doing this then we would be heading towards liquidation fast. The whole Premiership thing doesn''t really have a bearing, as take away clauses in wages, transfer costs, operating costs etc then you really don''t turn the massive profit that some may think you do.Yeah, the man is blunt, but he''s getting the job done I''m afraid.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Lambert is King"]

There must be more to this story than meets the eye. There are things that I am quite shocked that are not happening, for instance I thought there would be a ban this year on players signing anything or maybe despite the denials food and drink from outside being banned. Thats what makes me think there is more to this than meets the eye as those measures could save / make the club thousands as opposed to a few quid. If my hunch is wrong and it is just pettiness then the club are out of order in this instance.

 

So come on then whos been a naughty boy or girl and what did you do ? Surely NCISA know whats going on ? And if it is the club being petty has anyone complained except on here ?

[/quote]Exactly. They haven''t just done this to piss people off, theres more to it.

[Ren 75]

I am all for getting the job done Morty and when this season is over and if we are back in the Championship I fully expect this club to have nearly halved its debt otherwise its back to sqaure one for us and yet another wasted opportunity to get rid of the *****y mill-stone that has held us back year on year.

Worrying about a few £3.50''s etc is crazy though when some players are taking £10,000 a week out of the football club.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ren"]I am all for getting the job done Morty and when this season is over and if we are back in the Championship I fully expect this club to have nearly halved its debt otherwise its back to sqaure one for us and yet another wasted opportunity to get rid of the *****y mill-stone that has held us back year on year.

Worrying about a few £3.50''s etc is crazy though when some players are taking £10,000 a week out of the football club.[/quote]Thats the thing about business though, you have to pay attention to the details. A few quid here, and a few quid there, and before you know it you may have lost 100k over a season. It may seem extreme but I believe that McNally has been on a rampage throughout the club identifying where money was being wasted.We may not like it, but thats how we''re going to get rid of the debt.And there is more to this than meets the eye I reckon.

[. 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.Community club my arse. [/quote]Firstly I am happy to debate this with you if you can remain "common sense" and not go off on some rant about inner circles.Its simple business, they have a product that we want, it always has been the case, it has just become more obvious as the world of football has got massively more expensive.Norwich city can''t afford to be the community club you want them to be without settling for mediocre league positions.[/quote]Morty... the point is, the ground will be full whatever league City are in... so why worry about anything?Once upon a time the gates plummeted when the ownership failed to put good football on the pitch. That isn''t a problem for the club anymore so the fan base have lost their only weapon. It''s ''get what you''re given and pay up'' these days or lose your precious seat to someone else.Stitch up complete.[/quote]I''m not so sure, I think what happens at the end of this season could well be a tipping point. If they hike season ticket prices then they could just stretch that loyalty too far. And if they put the capacity up to 35k then I, for one, won''t be renewing my season ticket as I know it will be pretty likely I can pick up a casual ticket. Perhaps at that point, if our debt is paid off, there will be less emphasis on season ticket numbers as they can actually make more money from casuals, presuming they come, which they will as long as the football is good.I actually agree with what you''re saying to a lot of respects, but what can you do? They have a product that we want.[/quote]I suspect that the ground will remain at it''s current capacity because NCFC know they can fill it. Once that ''blackmail'' element of losing your seat is lost, the hold over the support is surrendered. Casuals are a nuisance... season ticket sales are a cinch.They do have the product we want... and that is why we should have fought back a long time ago before it was too late.  All is pretty much lost now and I doubt even a change of owner would mean a loosening of the grip NCFC has on it''s painfully slavish support.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''ve been saying for years that the club is determined to have total ''control'' over it''s support and round them up like sheep......No surprises here then as NCFC now have a captive and painfully compliant audience with whom they can (and will) do what they like... when they like.Community club my arse. [/quote]Firstly I am happy to debate this with you if you can remain "common sense" and not go off on some rant about inner circles.Its simple business, they have a product that we want, it always has been the case, it has just become more obvious as the world of football has got massively more expensive.Norwich city can''t afford to be the community club you want them to be without settling for mediocre league positions.[/quote]Morty... the point is, the ground will be full whatever league City are in... so why worry about anything?Once upon a time the gates plummeted when the ownership failed to put good football on the pitch. That isn''t a problem for the club anymore so the fan base have lost their only weapon. It''s ''get what you''re given and pay up'' these days or lose your precious seat to someone else.Stitch up complete.[/quote]I''m not so sure, I think what happens at the end of this season could well be a tipping point. If they hike season ticket prices then they could just stretch that loyalty too far. And if they put the capacity up to 35k then I, for one, won''t be renewing my season ticket as I know it will be pretty likely I can pick up a casual ticket. Perhaps at that point, if our debt is paid off, there will be less emphasis on season ticket numbers as they can actually make more money from casuals, presuming they come, which they will as long as the football is good.I actually agree with what you''re saying to a lot of respects, but what can you do? They have a product that we want.[/quote]I suspect that the ground will remain at it''s current capacity because NCFC know they can fill it. Once that ''blackmail'' element of losing your seat is lost, the hold over the support is surrendered. Casuals are a nuisance... season ticket sales are a cinch.They do have the product we want... and that is why we should have fought back a long time ago before it was too late.  All is pretty much lost now and I doubt even a change of owner would mean a loosening of the grip NCFC has on it''s painfully slavish support.[/quote]I think that if they can fill a ground with casuals they will. Lets face it, on current prices a casual probably (and this is fag packet accounting) brings in 2 and a half times the money a season ticket holder does and probably about 5 times a kid brings. If we continue to be in the Prem then perhaps that promise of money that the season tickets sales brings will become less important?But the only way of fighting back is to cut your nose off to spite your face, and stop going to games. By design, with such a captive audience it is always going to be, in your words "painfully slavish"

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"]They call it a ''complimentary'' program, but it is actually part of the agreement that they have, they don''t buy a programme because they are entitled to a free one. If I were one of those affected I would say stuff them and give it to whoever I want, would they really be able to ban them? It could be argued that the programme is part of the contract that they have and as such it is theres to do as they wish. The program is part of the package. If you buy a bed and breakfast holiday package you don''t say..... "oooo, we got free flights, a free hotel, and a free breakfast every morning"....

How can you give somebody something for ''free'' and dictate what they can or can''t do with it? There is being prudent, and there is being damn greedy, there are people watching games who can remember putting money in blankets to keep the club going. God forbid that they never need to pass a blanket around again or issue another share issue (which most people took up to HELP the club, not because they were gullible enough to believe it would have a return). A lot of people win begin to remember this as a club who squeezed every single penny that they could out of the fans at every single opportunity, there won''t be much forgiveness if things were to ever go wrong.

Threatening bans left, right, and centre, charging for this, charging for that. It''s almost as if this club is beginning to take its supporters for granted. There are a hell of a lot of clubs out there who would be desperate for a fan base as big as ours, and they would appreciate them!
[/quote]

Great post. You''ve hit the nail smack bang on the head there.