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paul moy

Bryan Gunn is today's guest on Keys and Gray

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He says "disappointed" rather than bitter. Also is delighted with the clubs progress, and mentions how his son (who is now in training with Man City as a goalkeeper) is true Norwich born and bred. Gunny will always be a top man.

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keys and gray has to be the worst show, on any radio station, ever. two complete and utter berks who interview their "mates" whilst making little `in` jokes about golf all the time. and richard keys, supposedly a coventry fan, asking gray after interviewing most players, "yes, but was/is he good enough to play for manchester united?"

that show must be costing talksport thousands of listeners everyday!.

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I liked the bit when the ''moose'' asked him whether he should have walked after the Charlton game and also whether goalkeepers ever make good managers. [:D]

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[quote user="exiled blue"]keys and gray has to be the worst show, on any radio station, ever. two complete and utter berks who interview their "mates" whilst making little `in` jokes about golf all the time. and richard keys, supposedly a coventry fan, asking gray after interviewing most players, "yes, but was/is he good enough to play for manchester united?" that show must be costing talksport thousands of listeners everyday!.[/quote]

Well they obviously haven''t cost TalkSport your ear!

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The best and worst manager we''ve had in a long time - without him we probably wouldn''t be where we are today!Although The Rat has a lot to answer for.

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No one should ever have a go at Bryan Gunn. He is really the no 1 NCFC legend of all time bar none. Even if his managership was not the best, he was instigator of a very good squad for the league 1 campaign which laid the foundations for success. Buying Grant Holt to name one.

We were always going to be relegated from the championship because of previous managers. BG cleared out all the dross and loanies and got some good players in. Why was he able to do this? Because of the respect he had in the football world.

I am certain PL would not have been able to do so well so quickly if he hadn''t had the raw material to start with. I know he he brought in players quite quickly, but never underestimate what BG did.

We would not have been able to do so well if PL had had to start from scratch.

BG is NCFC through and through and if those that can''t remember - do some reseach into our club''s history before you start having a go again. Ever since Bryan came to Norwich he has been a credit to the club and that includes his time as manager, possibly the hardest time to become our manager that anyone has had to face. Look where we are now - we should thank Bryan for his contribution and his clear out and squad building for the league one campaign.

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To be honest, LDC, the squad he assembled for the League One campaign was pretty hit and miss.

He should never have been appointed as manager, and his re-appointment was a complete fiasco.

But I totally agree with your first sentence. He will always be an NCFC legend for me - the heart and soul of our greatest ever side.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]No one should ever have a go at Bryan Gunn. He is really the no 1 NCFC legend of all time bar none. Even if his managership was not the best, he was instigator of a very good squad for the league 1 campaign which laid the foundations for success. BG cleared out all the dross and loanies and got some good players in. I am certain PL would not have been able to do so well so quickly if he hadn''t had the raw material to start with. We would not have been able to do so well if PL had had to start from scratch.

we should thank Bryan for his contribution and his clear out and squad building for the league one campaign.[/quote]I''m sorry guys, but I''m going to bite.This is absolute tosh.  So what, he is a legend at the club, but that does not mean he can be exempt from criticism.  To think that is certainly narrow minded, and at worst foolish.  Gunn got ''manager fever'' after the 4-0 win over Barnsley and actually started to believe he could do a job, when it was patently obvious to most of us that this shouldn''t have happened.  We should have brought in a manager with experience of relegation battles, not a rookie.  Lets not forget that we were outside the relegation zone when Roeder left.To be fair, at the time, I think I might have said that getting someone in with Norwich connections might have been a good idea, but with hindsight that was wrong.  Perhaps if we had had Butterworth as manager and Gunn as assistant it might have worked, but Gunn should never have done the job.After the Charlton debacle Gunn should have had the balls to give the job up, but instead he believed he could turn the club around.  Ok, fair enough, I''ve got to hand it to him, but that was naive and completely down to the fact that he loved Norwich.  He simply wasn''t up to the job.  He would have wanted to stay at CR for the whole of that season, he did not want Lambert to come.  So give Lambert the credit he deserves, and look at the squad that actually won promotion...not many Gunn signings in sight.Bloody Gunn was a great player for us, but he deserves to be criticised for his managerial ''episode'', because, at the end of the day, it was woeful.  The only silver lining is that what he managed to do was change the clubs mentality, not through success but through his failure.  Which in a perverse way he deserves praise for.

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Being made manager from ''nowhere'' says it all about the shambolic running of NCFC pre McNally and co. back when. It''s almost laughable when you think about it.He should have turned the job down and kept his star rating among City fans. A clear case of personal ambition exceeding ability... plus he doesn''t rate that highly as City keepers go.

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I never said don''t criticise BG, everyone can be criticised, what I dislike is the way some people choose to ignore the positives and only focus on the negatives about his contribution almost to the point of insult.

The positives are the way he cleared out the old players, brought in some good players, alot of which at least had some role in the league one season, and gave PL a starting point. If PL had come in at the end of the previous season he would have had a much harder job than he did to turn it around. I''m not belittling Pl either, just stating facts.

BG had every right to carry on if he believed in his ability to do a job, it was up to the board to put the right man in place and thanks to David Mac, thats what happened, and thank goodness they did.

It''s history now, but BG was a very important part of the development of the club post Grant + Roeder. All of which led to David Mac and the appointment of PL and aren''t we all thankful about that!

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[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Being made manager from ''nowhere'' says it all about the shambolic running of NCFC pre McNally and co. back when. It''s almost laughable when you think about it.

He should have turned the job down and kept his star rating among City fans. A clear case of personal ambition exceeding ability... plus he doesn''t rate that highly as City keepers go.
[/quote]

 

Indeed. While Gunn is up there with the worst managers of all time, appointing him TWICE was idiocy of the highest order. Neil Doncaster should have been forced out of the club after appointing Gunn x 2, Grant and Roeder.

 

And let’s not rewrite history regarding his signings. The only players he signed that were any good were Holt and Nelson – the top scorer in the division below and a defender regarded as one of the better players in the league, who Butterworth had worked with for about 5 years. Maric, Askou, Hughes, Theoklitos, OTJ, Gill contributed next to nothing (might be harsh on Hughes but he was on a big wage) and got paid handsomely for it.

 

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[quote user="lake district canary"]No one should ever have a go at Bryan Gunn. He is really the no 1 NCFC legend of all time bar none. Even if his managership was not the best, he was instigator of a very good squad for the league 1 campaign which laid the foundations for success. Buying Grant Holt to name one. We were always going to be relegated from the championship because of previous managers. BG cleared out all the dross and loanies and got some good players in. Why was he able to do this? Because of the respect he had in the football world. I am certain PL would not have been able to do so well so quickly if he hadn''t had the raw material to start with. I know he he brought in players quite quickly, but never underestimate what BG did. We would not have been able to do so well if PL had had to start from scratch. BG is NCFC through and through and if those that can''t remember - do some reseach into our club''s history before you start having a go again. Ever since Bryan came to Norwich he has been a credit to the club and that includes his time as manager, possibly the hardest time to become our manager that anyone has had to face. Look where we are now - we should thank Bryan for his contribution and his clear out and squad building for the league one campaign.[/quote]

thanks for that Melissa

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I''m totally with you ncfcstar. I would also add that the usual ''he bought Holt'' accolade was not that clever. The fact was Holt would have gone to Colchester with Lambert but we outbid them.

I think this Gunn ''lording'' every now and then is an insult to Lambert. Mind you, Lambo won''t give a toss

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[quote user="paul moy"]Gunn also signed a certain forward for 25K who recently went for around 500K. [:D][/quote]Yeah! Cody McDewnowt. [:D]

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"Well they obviously haven''t cost TalkSport your ear!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i admit to dipping in and out ofTS all day, usually when i`m driving, but i really can`t listen to those two prats and sycophants. i gave up when they interviewed steve archibald. it went something like this:-

grey-"good morning steve how are you?"

"i`m fine lads, good"

keys-" so... stephen..."

"stephen`s my `sunday` name!"

the two of them- " ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... oh dear!... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !"

*continue for about a minute*

when archibald came back on he sounded embarrassed!. it was excruciating to listen to. not listened to them since.

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[quote user="Larry David"]

 

Indeed. While Gunn is up there with the worst managers of all time, appointing him TWICE was idiocy of the highest order. Neil Doncaster should have been forced out of the club after appointing Gunn x 2, Grant and Roeder.

 

[/quote]

---

Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one.

 

But in any event the idea that Doncaster made those choices by himself is nonsense. If Doncaster had wanted those managers and Smith and Jones, with or without the others, had not then they wouldn''t have been appointed. It is, for example, a matter of public record that Roger Munby, for one, was all in favour of choosing Gunn in the wake of Roeder leaving. Equally, it was plain that Gunn''s re-appointment would not have happened without Smith and Jones wanting it.

 

Ultimately, credit or blame for all managerial appointments almost always (Lambert may have been the rare exception that proves the rule) lies with those who control the votes in the boardroom. And that was never Doncaster.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Larry David"]

 

Indeed. While Gunn is up there with the worst managers of all time, appointing him TWICE was idiocy of the highest order. Neil Doncaster should have been forced out of the club after appointing Gunn x 2, Grant and Roeder.

 

[/quote]

---

Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one.

But in any event the idea that Doncaster made those choices by himself is nonsense. If Doncaster had wanted those managers and Smith and Jones, with or without the others, had not then they wouldn''t have been appointed. It is, for example, a matter of public record that Roger Munby, for one, was all in favour of choosing Gunn in the wake of Roeder leaving. Equally, it was plain that Gunn''s re-appointment would not have happened without Smith and Jones wanting it.

Ultimately, credit or blame for all managerial appointments almost always (Lambert may have been the rare exception that proves the rule) lies with those who control the votes in the boardroom. And that was never Doncaster.

[/quote]"Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club

after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and

Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s

re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one."
Bryan Gunn was given the job permanently on 13th May 2009, Doncaster remained on 12th May 2009. We will never know how much input Doncaster had in that decision, but it was common knowledge that he was still sitting on the board and registered a director for some time after that date. "If Doncaster had wanted those managers and Smith

and Jones, with or without the others, had not then they wouldn''t have

been appointed.
""I can confidently say that there is no chance that Gunn would have got the job with McNally at the club, so any lack of influence possessed by Doncaster is his own shortcoming. My understanding however is that it was a 5 person board of directors at the time, with Munby, Doncaster, Foulger, Smith, and Wynn-Jones. Surely a vote is a vote in the board room? It is a PLC."Equally, it was plain that Gunn''s re-appointment would not have happened without Smith and Jones wanting it."As per above, not necessarily. If Mumby, Foulger, and Doncaster voted ''yes'', and Wynn-Jones and Smith voted ''no'', then it is 3-2. Obviously things don''t quite work like that, Mumby and Doncaster were on the payroll, and likely ''yes men''...... but Smith and Wynn-Jones don''t have the level of control that they would should they reach a 75% shareholding and be forced to buy out other shareholders, it''s a PLC, they aren''t sole propertiers or lone directors in an Ltd. Five seats on the board means five votes."Ultimately, credit or blame for all managerial

appointments almost always (Lambert may have been the rare exception

that proves the rule) lies with those who control the votes in the

boardroom. And that was never Doncaster."
It lied with 5 people, of whom Doncaster was 1. It still boils down to weakness though, if Delia wanted to appoint Barry Fry when Lambert leaves then McNally won''t stick around to wipe ar*es and wax egos if it is forced through against his wishes, he would resign. Doncaster was the Chief Exective Office, the CEO, he deserves every bit of blame that he gets. If he didn''t like the heat he should have got out of the kitchen earlier, he was awful at his job, a complete misery, a liar, and somebody who seemed to do nothing other than email fans like a glorified customer service manager.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Larry David"]

 

Indeed. While Gunn is up there with the worst managers of all time, appointing him TWICE was idiocy of the highest order. Neil Doncaster should have been forced out of the club after appointing Gunn x 2, Grant and Roeder.

 

[/quote]

---

Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one.

But in any event the idea that Doncaster made those choices by himself is nonsense. If Doncaster had wanted those managers and Smith and Jones, with or without the others, had not then they wouldn''t have been appointed. It is, for example, a matter of public record that Roger Munby, for one, was all in favour of choosing Gunn in the wake of Roeder leaving. Equally, it was plain that Gunn''s re-appointment would not have happened without Smith and Jones wanting it.

Ultimately, credit or blame for all managerial appointments almost always (Lambert may have been the rare exception that proves the rule) lies with those who control the votes in the boardroom. And that was never Doncaster.

[/quote]"Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club

after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and

Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s

re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one."
Bryan Gunn was given the job permanently on 13th May 2009, Doncaster remained on 12th May 2009. We will never know how much input Doncaster had in that decision, but it was common knowledge that he was still sitting on the board and registered a director for some time after that date. "If Doncaster had wanted those managers and Smith

and Jones, with or without the others, had not then they wouldn''t have

been appointed.
""I can confidently say that there is no chance that Gunn would have got the job with McNally at the club, so any lack of influence possessed by Doncaster is his own shortcoming. My understanding however is that it was a 5 person board of directors at the time, with Munby, Doncaster, Foulger, Smith, and Wynn-Jones. Surely a vote is a vote in the board room? It is a PLC."Equally, it was plain that Gunn''s re-appointment would not have happened without Smith and Jones wanting it."As per above, not necessarily. If Mumby, Foulger, and Doncaster voted ''yes'', and Wynn-Jones and Smith voted ''no'', then it is 3-2. Obviously things don''t quite work like that, Mumby and Doncaster were on the payroll, and likely ''yes men''...... but Smith and Wynn-Jones don''t have the level of control that they would should they reach a 75% shareholding and be forced to buy out other shareholders, it''s a PLC, they aren''t sole propertiers or lone directors in an Ltd. Five seats on the board means five votes."Ultimately, credit or blame for all managerial

appointments almost always (Lambert may have been the rare exception

that proves the rule) lies with those who control the votes in the

boardroom. And that was never Doncaster."
It lied with 5 people, of whom Doncaster was 1. It still boils down to weakness though, if Delia wanted to appoint Barry Fry when Lambert leaves then McNally won''t stick around to wipe ar*es and wax egos if it is forced through against his wishes, he would resign. Doncaster was the Chief Exective Office, the CEO, he deserves every bit of blame that he gets. If he didn''t like the heat he should have got out of the kitchen earlier, he was awful at his job, a complete misery, a liar, and somebody who seemed to do nothing other than email fans like a glorified customer service manager.[/quote]I mean, Doncaster RESIGNED on 12th May, one day before the Gunn appointment. Here is the Doncaster quote from the first appointment, by the way:"What the board of directors have to do is to calmly, objectively and

ruthlessly look at all the facts, look at what qualities they feel we

need, take on board the views of all interested parties and then make

the appointment based on those attributes that are required."With

the experience of John Deehan and knowledge of the Championship, with

the gravitas, charisma and leadership qualities of Bryan Gunn, with the

coaching skills, creativity and flair of Ian Crook, and the smiles on

faces they will undoubtedly generate at Colney, we feel we have the best

possible chance of taking the club out of the difficult situation we

find ourselves in."I talked about the need for there to be a

good chemistry, that X-factor. You can list all the attributes and you

put together what you think is a perfect coaching team, but sometimes it

doesn''t work. These three people know each other very well and they

undoubtedly have chemistry, and to see them talking on the phone, there

is that camaraderie and respect, and that has got to give them an

advantage."Of course, every pound that you spend on one thing is

a pound less that you can spend on players. So it clearly has an

impact. But be in no doubt, we made this decision based on what we

believe
are the attributes to take the club away from difficulty, rather

than on financial terms."

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[quote user="Lambert is god"]

A little story.

My mother-in-law lives in Lichfield and in the summer visited Norwich for the first time, going on a guided tour of the Cathedral.

The tour leader proceeded at one point to talk in glowing terms of Brian Gunn, about which I was frankly amazed. It appears that LDC is not the only Gunn fan.

Not only was Gunn''s stewardship spectacularly unsuccessful, resulting in a record home mauling by a tiny club, he managed to sign a load of complete no-hopers.

Star signing Whalley, it turns out, is now working as an electrician. Bar Holt, all his other signings were either mediocre, poor or downright awful.

BG was a fine goalkeeper in his day. But recent experience is more vivid, and what particularly irks about Gunn are the stories that I have heard from more than one supporter, who believe that he deliberately screwed his "beloved" club of money by demanding that his contract be paid up in full, despite his clear managerial failings.

And what about taking his goalkeeping son, Angus, off up north? Wasn''t he on Norwich''s books and supposed to be joining Man City, or did I get that wrong?

[/quote]"And what about taking his goalkeeping son, Angus, off up north? Wasn''t

he on Norwich''s books and supposed to be joining Man City, or did I get

that wrong?"
Can''t see anything wrong with this one. Gunn got a job offer up north at a football agency, Angus Gunn was 15 years old. Would you leave your 15 year old son alone at home if you were moving hundreds of miles away? I''m sure that when Angus Gunn is 18 he will be able to make up his own mind about where he can live and who he can play for, but he was still a high school kid. I''m sure that he would have wanted to remain with his family at this stage in his life, especially at an age when a football future is far from assured. He didn''t leave us until May 2011, Gunn was sacked in August 2009, hardly a spiteful reactionary move...... the two events are two days apart.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Lambert is god"]

A little story.

My mother-in-law lives in Lichfield and in the summer visited Norwich for the first time, going on a guided tour of the Cathedral.

The tour leader proceeded at one point to talk in glowing terms of Brian Gunn, about which I was frankly amazed. It appears that LDC is not the only Gunn fan.

Not only was Gunn''s stewardship spectacularly unsuccessful, resulting in a record home mauling by a tiny club, he managed to sign a load of complete no-hopers.

Star signing Whalley, it turns out, is now working as an electrician. Bar Holt, all his other signings were either mediocre, poor or downright awful.

BG was a fine goalkeeper in his day. But recent experience is more vivid, and what particularly irks about Gunn are the stories that I have heard from more than one supporter, who believe that he deliberately screwed his "beloved" club of money by demanding that his contract be paid up in full, despite his clear managerial failings.

And what about taking his goalkeeping son, Angus, off up north? Wasn''t he on Norwich''s books and supposed to be joining Man City, or did I get that wrong?

[/quote]"And what about taking his goalkeeping son, Angus, off up north? Wasn''t

he on Norwich''s books and supposed to be joining Man City, or did I get

that wrong?"
Can''t see anything wrong with this one. Gunn got a job offer up north at a football agency, Angus Gunn was 15 years old. Would you leave your 15 year old son alone at home if you were moving hundreds of miles away? I''m sure that when Angus Gunn is 18 he will be able to make up his own mind about where he can live and who he can play for, but he was still a high school kid. I''m sure that he would have wanted to remain with his family at this stage in his life, especially at an age when a football future is far from assured. He didn''t leave us until May 2011, Gunn was sacked in August 2009, hardly a spiteful reactionary move...... the two events are two days apart. [/quote]FFS, I mean two YEARS apart.

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[quote user="lake district canary"], he was instigator of a very good squad for the league 1 campaign which laid the foundations for success. [/quote]

UTTER TOSH!

So good that by the January window only Holt and Nelson of Gunns summer signings were regulars and lets face it Holt was a no brainer who would have been bought by Lambert for Colchester if he could have competed with our cheque book.

Theo, Maric and Whalley were soon on their way.

Mcveigh, Wiggins, Tudor Jones, Hughes and Gill hardly played for our first team and some could be found on loan.

As for Askou, he was in our team until he got injured and then he couldn''t force his way back into the first team on a regular basis. Given that he was allowed to go when his contract expired it makes me wonder if Lambert didnt rate him.

So we might make some money from the sale of McDonald but dont forget some of the transfer fee we have received / will be receiving, is going to his previous club.  Whatever is left will partially offset the cost of the players no longer with us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In the long run we may have got more for McDonald by having a sell-on fee or extending his contract. That lack of foresight would be the club''s fault....not Gunns.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Larry David"]

 

Indeed. While Gunn is up there with the worst managers of all time, appointing him TWICE was idiocy of the highest order. Neil Doncaster should have been forced out of the club after appointing Gunn x 2, Grant and Roeder.

 

[/quote]

---

Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one.

But in any event the idea that Doncaster made those choices by himself is nonsense. If Doncaster had wanted those managers and Smith and Jones, with or without the others, had not then they wouldn''t have been appointed. It is, for example, a matter of public record that Roger Munby, for one, was all in favour of choosing Gunn in the wake of Roeder leaving. Equally, it was plain that Gunn''s re-appointment would not have happened without Smith and Jones wanting it.

Ultimately, credit or blame for all managerial appointments almost always (Lambert may have been the rare exception that proves the rule) lies with those who control the votes in the boardroom. And that was never Doncaster.

[/quote]

"Er, actually Doncaster WAS forced out of the club after those appointments. Or, to be accurate, after Grant, Roeder and Gunn Mark I. He had been axed as chief executive before Gunn''s re-appointment. Hard to blame him for that one."

Bryan Gunn was given the job permanently on 13th May 2009, Doncaster remained on 12th May 2009. We will never know how much input Doncaster had in that decision, but it was common knowledge that he was still sitting on the board and registered a director for some time after that date.

[/quote]

Source: Companies House

Neil Doncaster''s appointment as a director was terminated on the 20th July 2009

 

 

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[quote user="paul moy"]In the long run we may have got more for McDonald by having a sell-on fee or extending his contract. That lack of foresight would be the club''s fault....not Gunns.[/quote]You really do have an obsession with Cody McDonald don''t you? I''ve seen others say it and thought to myself "oh lay off the man". But he really is pretty much all you talk about on here, don''t you have opinions on any other players? I rated Cody, was sad to see him go, and want him to do well. But each time I see you mention Cody McDonald, it makes me want Cody to achieve a little less, because I don''t think it''s good for your mental health for this obsession to continue. Cody McDonald will likely be playing League 1 football next year, that''s a hell of a long way down the footballing pyramid. I still think that Clingan and Shackell could do a job for us, but that doesn''t mean that I talk about them every single bleedin day.

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