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Jimmy Bone - Superstar

Snodgrass

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Hes not making too many headlines this season so far.  I''d have took him for 2-2.5 million, but master Bates was dreaming if he ever thought he''d get 8 million, though fair do''s for standing firm if they wanted to keep him.  Hes still a good player, better than Bennet, Pilks or Surman???  too early to tell imo.  I''m sure if hes not in the prem after January, he will be next season (disclaimer, not neccessarily with us)...

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True hes not done much this season.....could be his head has been turned in the summer by another club and has been annoyed not to leave....or maybe he has something lined up for January?

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[quote user="jed exodous"]Hes not making too many headlines this season so far.  I''d have took him for 2-2.5 million, but master Bates was dreaming if he ever thought he''d get 8 million, though fair do''s for standing firm if they wanted to keep him.  Hes still a good player, better than Bennet, Pilks or Surman???  too early to tell imo.  I''m sure if hes not in the prem after January, he will be next season (disclaimer, not neccessarily with us)...[/quote]I think its pretty conclusive that Snodgrass is a hundred times better than Surman, particularly when he is playing out wide.In answer to the OP, Snodgrass has set up 5 goals in 8 league games. That puts him at joint first in the assists table so far. He has only scored 1 goal, which is perhaps why he has stayed out of the limelight so far, but when you consider that Hoolahan set up 9 in 36 last year, it is pretty safe to assume that Snodgrass is still an enigma. In fact Snodgrass only set up 6 goals last year, so we can assume that he is actually more important to Leeds this year than he was last year.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="jed exodous"]Hes not making too many headlines this season so far.  I''d have took him for 2-2.5 million, but master Bates was dreaming if he ever thought he''d get 8 million, though fair do''s for standing firm if they wanted to keep him.  Hes still a good player, better than Bennet, Pilks or Surman???  too early to tell imo.  I''m sure if hes not in the prem after January, he will be next season (disclaimer, not neccessarily with us)...[/quote]I think its pretty conclusive that Snodgrass is a hundred times better than Surman, particularly when he is playing out wide.In answer to the OP, Snodgrass has set up 5 goals in 8 league games. That puts him at joint first in the assists table so far. He has only scored 1 goal, which is perhaps why he has stayed out of the limelight so far, but when you consider that Hoolahan set up 9 in 36 last year, it is pretty safe to assume that Snodgrass is still an enigma. In fact Snodgrass only set up 6 goals last year, so we can assume that he is actually more important to Leeds this year than he was last year.[/quote]

So do you think we should have pushed the boat out to get him in the summer??

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I hate stats, or at least I hate people basing arguments purely on stats.

Assists for example. It''s a two player thing and includes a lot of silly variables.

For example a defender pumps it forward to clear their lines, it goes over the halfway line and a striker latches onto it and scores. So long as the stiker takes no more than two touches I believe it is classed as an assist.

Equally, a player threads the ball through perfectly only for the player on the end of it to do a Torres and sky it when it would be harder to miss than score.

So assists only tell part of the story. Sometimes the strikers make goals out of poor balls, sometimes good balls. It''s not a stat that really helps. I think you would have to watch games to be able to hold a better opinion on how he is influencing games.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="jed exodous"]Hes not making too many headlines this season so far.  I''d have took him for 2-2.5 million, but master Bates was dreaming if he ever thought he''d get 8 million, though fair do''s for standing firm if they wanted to keep him.  Hes still a good player, better than Bennet, Pilks or Surman???  too early to tell imo.  I''m sure if hes not in the prem after January, he will be next season (disclaimer, not neccessarily with us)...[/quote]

I think its pretty conclusive that Snodgrass is a hundred times better than Surman, particularly when he is playing out wide.

In answer to the OP, Snodgrass has set up 5 goals in 8 league games. That puts him at joint first in the assists table so far. He has only scored 1 goal, which is perhaps why he has stayed out of the limelight so far, but when you consider that Hoolahan set up 9 in 36 last year, it is pretty safe to assume that Snodgrass is still an enigma.

In fact Snodgrass only set up 6 goals last year, so we can assume that he is actually more important to Leeds this year than he was last year.
[/quote]

 

A hundred times better???  Really???  I think you must have a pretty poor memory.  Surman was brilliant for us in the second half of last season.  I appreciate that Snodders is a very good player, they are slightly different in playing style, with Snodders operating on the left of a 4, and Surman more centrally on the left of a 3.  Surman is defo more lightweight, but i''d say hes got as good a touch and an excellent eye for a pass.  If i had to choose between the 2, i''d have Snodgrass over Surman, but to say hes a hundred times better is not fair...

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Would of been worth a go at £4M or less but not for the price that the tw*t Bates wanted!

But from what I''ve seen of Pilkington and Bennett both look capable of doing good jobs for us this season and them 2 cost less than what Snodgrass would on his own!

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[quote user="Jimmy Bone - Superstar"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="jed exodous"]Hes not making too many headlines this season so far.  I''d have took him for 2-2.5 million, but master Bates was dreaming if he ever thought he''d get 8 million, though fair do''s for standing firm if they wanted to keep him.  Hes still a good player, better than Bennet, Pilks or Surman???  too early to tell imo.  I''m sure if hes not in the prem after January, he will be next season (disclaimer, not neccessarily with us)...[/quote]I think its pretty conclusive that Snodgrass is a hundred times better than Surman, particularly when he is playing out wide.In answer to the OP, Snodgrass has set up 5 goals in 8 league games. That puts him at joint first in the assists table so far. He has only scored 1 goal, which is perhaps why he has stayed out of the limelight so far, but when you consider that Hoolahan set up 9 in 36 last year, it is pretty safe to assume that Snodgrass is still an enigma. In fact Snodgrass only set up 6 goals last year, so we can assume that he is actually more important to Leeds this year than he was last year.[/quote]

So do you think we should have pushed the boat out to get him in the summer??[/quote]Depends on how much we offered, I''d have paid £3m max. I don''t think that we should be spending more than that on any player, unless Lambert is convinced that he can sign the next Thierry Henry. For the same reason, I wasn''t dissapointed to not sign Shane Long, I like to think that Lambert is good at signing below market value. If it is true that we offered £2.5m, then I don''t think that we should have gone much further.

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[quote user="jed exodous"]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="jed exodous"]Hes not making too many headlines this season so far.  I''d have took him for 2-2.5 million, but master Bates was dreaming if he ever thought he''d get 8 million, though fair do''s for standing firm if they wanted to keep him.  Hes still a good player, better than Bennet, Pilks or Surman???  too early to tell imo.  I''m sure if hes not in the prem after January, he will be next season (disclaimer, not neccessarily with us)...[/quote]I think its pretty conclusive that Snodgrass is a hundred times better than Surman, particularly when he is playing out wide.In answer to the OP, Snodgrass has set up 5 goals in 8 league games. That puts him at joint first in the assists table so far. He has only scored 1 goal, which is perhaps why he has stayed out of the limelight so far, but when you consider that Hoolahan set up 9 in 36 last year, it is pretty safe to assume that Snodgrass is still an enigma. In fact Snodgrass only set up 6 goals last year, so we can assume that he is actually more important to Leeds this year than he was last year.[/quote]

A hundred times better???  Really???  I think you must have a pretty poor memory.  Surman was brilliant for us in the second half of last season.  I appreciate that Snodders is a very good player, they are slightly different in playing style, with Snodders operating on the left of a 4, and Surman more centrally on the left of a 3.  Surman is defo more lightweight, but i''d say hes got as good a touch and an excellent eye for a pass.  If i had to choose between the 2, i''d have Snodgrass over Surman, but to say hes a hundred times better is not fair...

[/quote]Like I said "particularly when he is playing out wide". You stated Bennett, Pilkington and Surman, and comparing them with Robert Snodgrass who is a winger. Naturally I would only compare Surman on the left with Snodgrass on the left. Obviously a hundred times better is an exaggeration, but twice as good isn''t too much of one. Our opinions of Surman do appear to differ though, I wouldn''t say that he was brilliant for us in the second half of the season, I saw two or three outstanding performances. Other than that, I saw a player who tended to drift in and out of games, and was only really effective when we were playing possession football and had a lot of the ball.I also prefer Surman in the middle of course, but it would make little sense in that scenario to compare a winger with a wide drifting centre midfielder. I don''t like Hoolahan on the wing either.I''m not even sure that he has a good touch, he seems to need an extra second on the ball than a lot of our attacking players. He can link up well, but for me he just isn''t going to be effective in this league.I''d love to be proved wrong though.

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[quote user="chicken"]I hate stats, or at least I hate people basing arguments purely on stats.

Assists for example. It''s a two player thing and includes a lot of silly variables.

For example a defender pumps it forward to clear their lines, it goes over the halfway line and a striker latches onto it and scores. So long as the stiker takes no more than two touches I believe it is classed as an assist.

Equally, a player threads the ball through perfectly only for the player on the end of it to do a Torres and sky it when it would be harder to miss than score.

So assists only tell part of the story. Sometimes the strikers make goals out of poor balls, sometimes good balls. It''s not a stat that really helps. I think you would have to watch games to be able to hold a better opinion on how he is influencing games.[/quote]Well it''s nice to know that you hate me, because I use stats, next time I''ll just make something up. I take your point about stats, but now that you have declared a hatred (such a strong word) I will happily rip your purely hypothetical reply apart. I dislike people who base their arguments purely on hypothetical arguments, I can''t bring myself to use the word ''hate'', because it describes only people that I consider in some way evil. For me an assist is an assist in the same way that a goal is a goal and a save is a save and a tackle is a tackle. It doesn''t matter whether a ball hits Snodgrass on the bum and McCormack volleyed into the net, Snodgrass had to be standing where he was for it to hit him on the bum. As it happens, Leeds fans seem to think that he looks fat, lazy, uninterested, and desperate to leave: http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=323&fid=14&act=1&mid=2116310205We have to ask ourselves two things:a) maybe we wouldn''t want a player like that at the club anywayorb) maybe we can save him from his misery in January for a realistic price and Lambert get him ticking.I suspect that he is making Grayson and Bates pay for pricing him out of Premier League moves against his wishes. Maybe Leeds will drop him and flog him to us for £1m, that would teach them. Robert Snodgrass played under Paul Lambert at Livingstone by the way, and with Hoolahan.

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I''ve not seen Snodgrass this season - and close season deal-wise I''d rather have both Pilkington & Bennett for the money we paid.

The clips I''ve seen show Snodgrass as a great left-footed wide-right player, so yes he could potentially displace Surman, but also provide competition for Bennett & Pilkington. That would give some amazing permutations for future team selection.

We''d be naive to think Snodgrass hasn''t been told that Norwich might well be back in January (for much lower money btw). He''s probably doing his job and biding time - he''ll go somewhere else at some point as technically he''s a top player.

Using Bradley Johnson as a yardstick, I think Snodgrass could be sensational under Paul Lambert - especially as he knows him from his time at Livingstone - that emotional comfort would offer another huge psychological boost...

 

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@Le Judge:

You haven''t ripped my hypothetical answers apart at all. You have added substance to your stance, which in hand with the stats carries more weight.

I stand by what I said before, stats like this, alone, prove bugger all.

Assists are one of the most difficult part to stat because when it comes to goals you get how many shots on goal a player has in a game and how many they get and how many they miss.

If someone stated up the chances a player creates in a game in terms of assists then I would be more happy with it as an assist. Hoolahan creates a lot of chances, but how many in comparison are scored?

If Leeds fans are moaning about Snodgrass appearing to be giving less than last season then that suggests the stats may well be an accurate reflection on his season so far. But one without the other are less valuable pieces of information, open to interpretation.

Lastly when I say ''or at least I hate people basing arguments purely on stats'' I mean that. No where does it say I hate people ''WHO'' use stats. I said I hate people using stats, as in I hate arguments based purely on stats which do not recognise other factors.

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[quote user="hurricane"]True hes not done much this season.....could be his head has been turned in the summer by another club and has been annoyed not to leave....or maybe he has something lined up for January?[/quote]

He wasn''t doing much at the end of last season either (when he was playing and not injured).

 

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