The De Laet Conundrum

[LeJuge 0]

I really can''t decide whether I want to see this bloke back in the side just yet. For tonight, I think Martin has earned the right to stay in the team after a great performance against Bolton, but I doubt we will see Martin there all season and he will probably want to try and win his right back spot back as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Am I the only person who sees a potential top class centre back? And I mean top class, capable of playing football for a top six team, but who hasn''t really served his apprenticeship? If he cuts out the mistakes he would be by far the best defender in our team.The question is do you give him the regular football that he needs to cut out the mistakes or do you write him off as not ready and use him as a squad player? He has actually only played 46 league games in his career, at 22, he is really inexperienced. Korey Smith has played 67! That is equivalent to one ever-present Championship season. It''s less than Connor Wickham too. De Laet is probably 40 games away from being absolutely class, and I would love to see that class player at Carrow Road for the long term. Would the best thing for De Laet to have been to have a full season in the Championship for a decent side like Cardiff?  I''m not preaching here, I''m merely asking for opinions, I don''t know any answers. It feels to me a little as if we are merely giving a player the experience that he needs to be a top defender, rather than benefitting from that top player. I think that he is potentially good enough to be a squad player at Man Utd like O''Shea was and Brown was, but will we see that from him this year?Can we assume that Lambert and Culverhouse are working hard in training to get him to cut out the mistakes? I''m firmly crossing my fingers that we see a player who is willing to hoof the ball to no mans land when necessary whenever he returns to the team. I''ve never seen a player who can spend 89 minutes of the game looking like the most composed player on the pitch, and the other minute losing his head, it''s the difference between him being a top class defender and a potential liability. Don''t shoot, think I''ve been clear that I consider him potentially top drawer, just looking for input!

[Archie 0]

Has he got a bit of Titus Bramble about him? Could be great but is almost guaranteed to make a huge blunder each game which invariably leads to a goal...If he can cut it out of his game then yes, I agree that he would be a top-six defender (in time)

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Am I the only person who sees a potential top class centre back? [/quote]

 

No you''re not. It''s clear to me that has has the potential to be a very good player indeed but at the moment he is prone to making quite catastrophic errors. I think it is difficult for a ball playing centre back such as De Laet to start their career in the Premier League due to the pace of the game. A lot of the mistakes he is making stem from his desire to keep the ball and build from the back. If he hoofs the ball out against Stoke and Chelsea and heads the ball out for a throw in against Stoke we probably would not be having this conversation. But we also would not be wondering whether De Laet could potentially play for a top six side.

 

The question is can we afford to let him continue on his learning curve at the heart of our defence or will his errors prove too costly in the short term? In a way it shows up the absurdity of the current loan system as the only way we can get in a highly rated young defender such as De Laet is to take him on a season long loan. We put in all of the work to try and eradicate errors from his game and send a better player back to his super rich employers. Too much of the risk in that arrangement seems to be on our shoulders as far as I can see.

[Shack Attack 0]

The first Stoke in that post should obviously be Wigan instead [:$]

[Scottlarock 12]

is it..........elated? Love word games.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

When De Laet joined I thought he would make a good signing. However, when he''s played this season his mistakes have always led to goals conceded. That''s my main gripe with him. Unfortunately that gripe means we''ve lost points because of his mistakes.

Tonight I''d for a Barnett/R.Martin pairing. Not convinced by De Laet, he doesn''t look like a defender nurtured at one of the best football clubs in the world.

[Syteanric 1]

if De Laet makes a mistake at old Trafford, Vidic or Ferdinand will bail him out of trouble.if De Laet makes a mistakke at Carrow Road its a goal... we cant afford this to happen, he''s a great defender but would be a better option if we were an established or mid table premiership side i think. a Mistake prone defender can only make his other defenders and Keeper jittery!

[GJP 79]

Difficult to gauge where RDL is at in terms of ability now and future potential.

 

Utd have spent millions and millions on Smalling and Jones and are happy to give them a lot of first team game time. They''ve also given a lot of game time to Rafael and a bit to Fabio.

 

Yet they''ve been happy to loan RDL out to Sheff Utd, PNE, Pompey and us. In other words, they''ve not only got senior players but also youngsters ahead of him in the pecking order, players they trust more.

 

Maybe the best comparison at the moment is Jonny Evans, Utd were happy to loan him to Sunderland and since then he gets a few games for Utd but he''s never been able to establish himself as being first choice.

 

I''d guess that RDL is more of a Jonny Evans/Wes Brown/John O''Shea than he is a Rio Ferdinand or Nemanja Vidic or evem Phil Jones. Potentially a handy squad player for Utd but more realistically not someone who will be a first choice defender for a real top side.

 

As for his role at Norwich...if we''ll have to play Barnett and Martin at the back against Utd then it makes sense to stick them tonight too. He''s got quality but he''s got to cut the costly errors out and if he doesn''t then he''s not going to be in the team.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

He''s clearly a young defender with a lot of ability and potential but as with most inexperienced centre backs he is prone to mistakes.

His confidence is probably a little low at the moment so i''d keep him on the bench but at some point he''ll come back in and hopefully nail down a position.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Scottlarock"]is it..........elated? Love word games.[/quote]I knew that somebody would come up with a smart ass answer taking that precise form when using the word ''conundrum''.

1 : a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun

2

a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answerb : an intricate and difficult problem

My use of the word falls within ''b'', this is a difficult and intricate problem. Of course, the correct answer is: The Irishman.

[LeJuge 0]

All great answers, and good to see that people largely agree, it has helped to confirm that my own opinions are along the right lines. Another thing that I have been thinking about is the possibility that De Laet was never actually intended to play as a centre back, but actually to come into compete with Tierney at left back? I think it''s clear that Drury isn''t good enough for this level at 33 years old, and won''t feature much at all this year. He went to Preston to replace an injured left back, and played his first games for Man Utd as a left back too. Lambert made a point of emphasising his versitility when signing him, could De Laet have found himself at centre back as a result of the Ward injury? Was the intention to play a Ward & Barnett or Whitbread & Ward partnership? With De Laet finding himself at centre back on default after injuries?It is entirely possible that De Laet was brought in to challenge Tierney for a place just like Naughton was brought in to challenge Martin. If Tierney gets injured or suspended at any stage this year, then I suspect we would see De Laet at left back.That is actually a much less dangerous place for De Laet to play. If he gets his chance at left back, he might just be perfect for that position. You have to say that De Laet might find himself getting further in football as a left back then he would as a centre back, there really is no shortage of Centre backs in the game, but there is definitely a shortage of left backs.Maybe we will see him at left back at some stage this season, although of course I hope that Tierney stays fit and healthy and in good shape, because for me Tierney is right up there with Ruddy and Johnson as one of the best players for us so far this year.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Scottlarock"]is it..........elated? Love word games.[/quote]I knew that somebody would come up with a smart ass answer taking that precise form when using the word ''conundrum''.

1 : a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun

2

a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answerb : an intricate and difficult problem

My use of the word falls within ''b'', this is a difficult and intricate problem. Of course, the correct answer is: The Irishman. [/quote]That copy and paste didn''t work very well, here''s the definition: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conundrumSee (b).

[GJP 79]

[quote user="LeJuge"]All great answers, and good to see that people largely agree, it has helped to confirm that my own opinions are along the right lines.

Another thing that I have been thinking about is the possibility that De Laet was never actually intended to play as a centre back, but actually to come into compete with Tierney at left back?

I think it''s clear that Drury isn''t good enough for this level at 33 years old, and won''t feature much at all this year. He went to Preston to replace an injured left back, and played his first games for Man Utd as a left back too.

Lambert made a point of emphasising his versitility when signing him, could De Laet have found himself at centre back as a result of the Ward injury? Was the intention to play a Ward & Barnett or Whitbread & Ward partnership? With De Laet finding himself at centre back on default after injuries?

It is entirely possible that De Laet was brought in to challenge Tierney for a place just like Naughton was brought in to challenge Martin. If Tierney gets injured or suspended at any stage this year, then I suspect we would see De Laet at left back.

That is actually a much less dangerous place for De Laet to play. If he gets his chance at left back, he might just be perfect for that position. You have to say that De Laet might find himself getting further in football as a left back then he would as a centre back, there really is no shortage of Centre backs in the game, but there is definitely a shortage of left backs.

Maybe we will see him at left back at some stage this season, although of course I hope that Tierney stays fit and healthy and in good shape, because for me Tierney is right up there with Ruddy and Johnson as one of the best players for us so far this year.
[/quote]

Yeah, I think you''re probably on to something with regard to RDL filling in at left-back. It''s a real shame to say it but you''d be very worried about Drury playing in the Prem now.

[ron obvious 1,711]

[quote user="Scottlarock"]is it..........elated? Love word games.[/quote]Should we delete De Laet??

[CambridgeCanary 0]

I said on another thread that we should buy him now, whilst his stock is low and man Utd have a surfeit of centrebacks because he is class and will be great in a few years.

Another Dave Watson.

I am still of that opinion.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

I personally didn''t think Russell Martin was that impressive against Bolton - he did fine against a fairly slow and immobile Davies and Klasnic but as soon as N''Gog came on he pulled Martin all over the pitch and exposed his lack of knowledge of the CB position. Bolton''s goal was down to Martin''s mistake in not clearing the ball when he had the chance and if De Laet had of done something similar he would be coming into another bashing on this message board.I would be perfectly happy to have De Laet starting against Sunderland as Martin clearly isn''t ready to play that position in the Premier League yet.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]I said on another thread that we should buy him now, whilst his stock is low and man Utd have a surfeit of centrebacks because he is class and will be great in a few years.

Another Dave Watson.

I am still of that opinion.[/quote]We can''t buy him until January, and his stock could rise before then, but I would support that. It becomes a whole different ball game if he is our player, and we lose the part of the argument which says that De Laet is making his mistakes at Norwich to become a great player for somebody else.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I personally didn''t think Russell Martin was that impressive against Bolton - he did fine against a fairly slow and immobile Davies and Klasnic but as soon as N''Gog came on he pulled Martin all over the pitch and exposed his lack of knowledge of the CB position. Bolton''s goal was down to Martin''s mistake in not clearing the ball when he had the chance and if De Laet had of done something similar he would be coming into another bashing on this message board.I would be perfectly happy to have De Laet starting against Sunderland as Martin clearly isn''t ready to play that position in the Premier League yet.[/quote]So far this season only 1 goals has come from a striker at Sunderland. I don''t know enough about their goal threat to know how to defend against them, haven''t been paying attention to Sunderland in all fairness. I agree that Martin should have cleared that ball, but I still think it was a foul that Barnett didn''t have to make. The Bolton player hit the ball far too wide to stand a good chance of sticking it in the net, and there was no Bolton player to square it too. Barnett didn''t know that of course, but should he have done? I wasn''t too harsh on Barnett because his header played a key role in the first Norwich goal.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]I said on another thread that we should buy him now, whilst his stock is low and man Utd have a surfeit of centrebacks because he is class and will be great in a few years.

Another Dave Watson.

I am still of that opinion.[/quote]We can''t buy him until January, and his stock could rise before then, but I would support that. It becomes a whole different ball game if he is our player, and we lose the part of the argument which says that De Laet is making his mistakes at Norwich to become a great player for somebody else. [/quote]

We can agree to buy him now to take effect in january as per Etuhu, McNamee and Barnett.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I know the expression ''a Belgian defender'' is an oxymoron but I would expect Tin-Tin to start tonight because his pace allows us to play a high back line when going forward as a side. Being able to compress the game at home allows us to put pressure on the opposition.

I think he was brought here for his pace and for the reason given as Whitbread is too slow for one on one; Barnett is too clumsy and hates any defending when on his heels plus Ward isn''t pacy enough although he and Zak are two of the best passers in the squad.

I say, play him tonight.

[Muddy funster 0]

Or Tealed???

 

Actually  he is going to be a top class player.  In my opinion, Barnett has made just as many errors as De Laet.  All Ritchies have been punished however.  I really am unsure about Barnett - I think I must be the only one on here though.  He had some questionable games last season, and I actually think it was a well timed blessing in disguise when he got injured.  He''s not terrible - just not that good.  His choice of when to tackle and when to stand people up seems to be awry and he is a canny strikers dream in my opinion.

[Scottlarock 12]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Scottlarock"]is it..........elated? Love word games.[/quote]I knew that somebody would come up with a smart ass answer taking that precise form when using the word ''conundrum''.

1 : a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun

2

a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answerb : an intricate and difficult problem

My use of the word falls within ''b'', this is a difficult and intricate problem. Of course, the correct answer is: The Irishman. [/quote]

...didn''t mean to upset you mate, only having a light tongue in cheek post. It''s not a literary criticism , personal attack or vehicle to belittle you.

All the same, thank you for the information, very kind.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Scottlarock"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Scottlarock"]is it..........elated? Love word games.[/quote]I knew that somebody would come up with a smart ass answer taking that precise form when using the word ''conundrum''.

1 : a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun

2

a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answerb : an intricate and difficult problem

My use of the word falls within ''b'', this is a difficult and intricate problem. Of course, the correct answer is: The Irishman. [/quote]

...didn''t mean to upset you mate, only having a light tongue in cheek post. It''s not a literary criticism , personal attack or vehicle to belittle you.

All the same, thank you for the information, very kind.[/quote]I neither felt upset, criticised, attacked, or belittled...... just knew that there would be a countdown fan ready to pounce, I had the definition pre-prepared :P

[Salopian 1]

He is still fairly young, and prone to make expensive mistakes, like Barnett - our two quickest and potentially best central defenders.

I think that De Laet will learn, and what he really needs is a more experienced central defender with him, to keep him concentrating. (I wonder if Martin could fullfil that role - he was fairly vocal, like a senior pro, at Bolton?

I am sorry that De Laet is not a permanent signing, because in a year or two he will be a very good player, I think.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Muddy funster"]

Or Tealed???

Actually  he is going to be a top class player.  In my opinion, Barnett has made just as many errors as De Laet.  All Ritchies have been punished however.  I really am unsure about Barnett - I think I must be the only one on here though.  He had some questionable games last season, and I actually think it was a well timed blessing in disguise when he got injured.  He''s not terrible - just not that good.  His choice of when to tackle and when to stand people up seems to be awry and he is a canny strikers dream in my opinion.

[/quote]Barnett is fantastic in the air however, possibly the best in the air out of our bunch. At current we have no choice but to play Barnett in my opinion, with Whitbread and Ward out injured, I wouldn''t want to see a partnership of Martin and De Laet..... against teams who themselves are good in the air. Barnett seems to win every header that he goes for, that''s an important asset, and probably the reason that Shackell ended up playing for us in the last Premiership season after Malky left. Whitbread is probably the next best thing that we have in that respect, I''m looking forward to seeing him get a chance, shouldn''t be long. I don''t think Barnett is anything special either really, if we stay up this year then I would love to see a top class centre back like a Woodgate or a Ridgewell. In fact if Birmingham aren''t anywhere near the top 6 in January, then that is precisely who I would like to see at the club, Liam Ridgewell..... more than I want to see De Laet.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Salopian"]He is still fairly young, and prone to make expensive mistakes, like Barnett - our two quickest and potentially best central defenders.

I think that De Laet will learn, and what he really needs is a more experienced central defender with him, to keep him concentrating. (I wonder if Martin could fullfil that role - he was fairly vocal, like a senior pro, at Bolton?

I am sorry that De Laet is not a permanent signing, because in a year or two he will be a very good player, I think.[/quote]Don''t want to see De Laet and Martin at centre back together to be honest, what with Martin being extremely inexperienced in that position himself. I think that we just have to hope that Whitbread can quickly get back to full fitness and gives a good account of himself.

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

a young defender and therefore prone to mistakes but with bags of potential (which he has already shown). I dont think its of any benefit to stop him playing for too long as I think he will hopefully have learnt from the previous mistakes however I thinkt Russell Martin deserves to start tonight imo.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

No conundrum at all, Russel Martin has earned his spot, and is doing well. I see no reason to change things.