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LeJuge

Change things against Man Utd?

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I know it would seem a bit weird to change a system which has just won two games on the bounce, but it might make sense to go and play the diamond or 4-4-2 against Man Utd. It might also make sense to try out some players who haven''t had a chance yet. Simeon Jackson anybody? Korey Smith, remember him? King of Spain? (looking at our squad, it really is pretty thin!).Keeping the opponents guessing seems to be working for us this year, somebody on here claims that Stoke were divising a system to deal with Hoolahan and Fox and we ended up with both on the bench and probably would have won the game if it weren''t for the sending off. After getting things wrong against West Brom, Bolton would have had no clue whatsoever as to the system that we were going to play. Sunderland probably would have had an idea that we would try the same system again, but Bruce will still have pondered whether we would go for two up front at home. Could changing things for Man Utd keep Swansea guessing? We could go 4-4-2 against Man Utd, and then put out the 4-5-1 again. With Holt doing so well against Chelsea too, rising to the occassion, reckon he could cause Man Utd some problems. It''s a game that realistically we just aren''t going to win right? We could give some people a run out here, and a few people a well deserved rest.....                              RuddyNaughton     Martin    Barnett    De Laet*Pilkington    Smith       Crofts     Lappin                     Jackson     Holt*De Laet - if he is allowed to play, with the idea that Tierney gets a rest, and we get to see whether De Laet is decent at left back. Or am I just barking mad? Just an idea of course. But I''m expecting our next points at home to Swansea, not at Old Trafford, plus it gives Holt and Jackson an opportunity to stake a claim for a place.People might think its crazy brining the likes of Lappin and Smith into the team, but with us playing Fox, Crofts, and Johnson together, if any of those gets injured we are going to have to call upon Surman, Lappin, or Smith at some stage this year!Or it might make sense to play the diamond and give both Bennett and Pilkington a rest....... we don''t have any spare wingers, unless Surman counts....                                RuddyNaughton     Martin        Barnett       Tierney                              Crofts               Smith                     Fox                             Hoolahan                  Jackson            Holt That said, we don''t have a game for two weeks after Old Trafford, so ''resting'' probably doesn''t come into the equation. I know it might scare people a bit, but we haven''t got too much depth, the other players in the 25 are going to have to be used this season. We only have two wingers, so playing 4-5-1 every week probably isn''t a realistic possibility. I thought that Pilkington and Bennett were fantastic last night, but we don''t want to become one dimensional. This is the scary bit of the season though:17th December     Everton20th December    Wolves26th December     Tottenham31st December     Fulham2nd Janaury           QPRA lot of points to be had in the 5 games, but that''s five games in 16 days. We get through most of the season playing 1 game every 7 days, sometimes 1 in 14 days, and then play five games in 16 days before the transfer window. That''s why we need to keep people involved and not lose site of a plan b and plan c.What do you all think? About the team for Man U that is?

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I''d keep it the same to start with. Go for the upset. If we start getting battered, look to change to the diamond, or a 4-4-2

Or go for the system at Chelsea that so nearly caused an upset.

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Man U''s main danger will come from the wings, especially if Rooney and Hernandez are both injured. Going with a diamond will play into their hands.I wouldn''t go for wholesale changes, the game against Stoke shows that without their star forwards Man U are actually a little blunt. Keeping Nani quiet will be the real test though. Although rotation of some players will be needed in the future, in the Bolton game and last night players seem to be dropping off in the last 10 - 15 mins, suggesting they are starting to get tired - no surprise considering the immense work rate they have before that. Didn''t Johnson cover more than 8 miles in the Chelsea game? That is a huge effort.I can see Norwich getting a draw out of this game if we are a little lucky and can keep things tight for the first 45 minuets.

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Once we won last night I thought maybe most of those on show would be rested, however Man U have a Tuesday game, lots of injuries so may just be worth having a real go at them.

Pity their game tonight is not away and tomorrow.

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I doubt Lambert will "rest" anyone. He will maybe change the formation, maybe bring back Holty to give their CB''s a bit of a softening up before bringing Morrison on? Either way he''''d need to use them both as I can''t see him doing anything but playing a lone striker. I very much doubt if he will leave out either Naughton or Tierney, who I thought were both immense last night, as, as someone has pointed out, their main weapon is their pace out wide, Young, Nani, Giggs, with Evra, Smalling, Valencia bombing forward.

Our fullbacks are going to be very very busy, and I suspect that we will need them both at their best.

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United attack down the wings in Nani & Young, playing anything other than the current system would be suicide.

No need to rest anybody with no midweek games coming up, we can go up there with nothing to lose and try and get something.

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Is it a friendly on Saturday? Use it as a chance to see if untried players are any good?? Have you been sniffing lighter fuel this morning?

The pnly chnage I would go for is Crofts in for Fox. Fox has been a star in the last two games but we''ll be under the cosh and dispossessing them will be the prime task.

Mungo

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[quote user="CDMullins"]I stopped reading your post when you suggested we started Smith, Jackson and Lappin [/quote]Why is it that you don''t rate Simeon Jackson?

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Changing and weakening a winning team would be pretty stupid IMO, especially against Manure who will probably be without Rooney, Fernandes and Vidic. We can get a point at least and Bennet, Pilkington and Morison must definitely start.

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I agree, we need 5 in midfield. I''d be tempted to rest Hoolahan, we need some bite and clog up midfield, maybe play Crofts and Johnson in front of the the back two with Fox in the Hoolahan role behind a lone striker. Fox can put in a good pass but adds muscle. It may be a game suited to Jackson''s pace as we will likely be attacking on the break. I expect them to dominate possession so we need to get bodies around the box and put them under pressure between our box and the half way line.

I know we have done well, but we have beaten two teams bang out of form by one goal. If someone offered me 1-1,  I would bite their arm and upper torso off. Utd can tear anyone apart even with the stars rested so I am afraid that pragmatism and damage limitation is the order of the day and if we get a lucky break then that is a bonus. Play an open attacking game with our ex-league 1 players and the Arsenal score will look like a narrow win! We struggled to contain Peter Odemwingie so even the "reserve" striker Dimitar Berbatov will be a challenge................But this is why we are in the PL so I am looking forward to it immensely.

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[quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]Is it a friendly on Saturday? Use it as a chance to see if untried players are any good?? Have you been sniffing lighter fuel this morning?

The pnly chnage I would go for is Crofts in for Fox. Fox has been a star in the last two games but we''ll be under the cosh and dispossessing them will be the prime task.

Mungo[/quote]Whether you like it or not, we will have no choice but to use those players this season. Our current centre midfielders are:Crofts, Johnson, Fox, HoolahanWe are playing three in the middle right now. If you think that we aren''t going to need to use Lappin, Smith, and Surman this year then it is you that is sniffing lighter fuel this morning!We have two wingers, plus Surman. If we get Pilkington injured then do we play the diamond? Or do we start trying Surman or Lappin on the left? If we get Bennett injured do we play Surman or Lappin on the left and Pilkington on the right? Or do we try and play Smith on the right? We just don''t have the luxury of a big squad, we actually have a very small squad. Lambert has said it himself, we need to use the entire 25. It''s no good getting to late November and early December when injuries and fatigue set in, having nobody with any minutes to bring into the team. I myself wouldn''t have expected to see Lappin this season, I''ve changed my mind by watching Surman. It''s not unrealistic for us to see 2 or 3 injuries in midfield at the same time, we have seen 3 injuries at centre back already. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario... in November, we find ourselves with Fox, Pilkington, and Crofts out injured. We need to pick an XI...... knock yourself out.... name your XI......As for the friendly bit, that''s just silly. It''s a well known tactic employed in this league, hence http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/15/premier-league-weakened-teams-hollowayNow, pick your XI. 

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[quote user="LeJuge"]
Or am I just barking mad? [/quote]

 

The very fact that you had to ask would suggest there is an element of doubt on your part [:P]

I''d go with an unchanged side. The only change I would consider is maybe replacing Pilkington with Johnson and moving Crofts into the middle. So much of United''s play comes through Nani that Tierney might need a little more help than Pilkington will provide. Naughton will have his hands full too with Young but I think it is important to keep Bennett in the side as Evra is the weak link in that defence for me.

 

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I take an old school view on team selection - pick your best team every week (ideally the same eleven players week in, week out). And don''t change a winning team unless circumstances (like having to stand up to Man U rather than two of the division''s weakest teams) dicate otherwise.

Lappin, Smith and especially powder puff Surman are squad players who should only figure in the event of injuries suspensions forcing PL''s hands.

I''d go with:

Ruddy

Tierney

Barnett

Martin

Naugton

Pilkington

Crofts

Johnson

Bennet

Hoolahan

Morison

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I not see any reason why we to rest any players simply because after man u game we have 15 days until next game....

Man U is too sharp this days so I not see chanse for us to take somthing but we must try to play focused and try make hard day for them if is possible.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="CDMullins"]I stopped reading your post when you suggested we started Smith, Jackson and Lappin [/quote]

Why is it that you don''t rate Simeon Jackson?
[/quote]

 

I really like Jackson, but not as much as I like Holt and Morison. Infact I''d give Jackson the opportunity before Vaughan and Martin.

 

As for Smith and Lappin, you couldnt give me one plausible reason why we would distrupt a winning team to play either of them.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]
Or am I just barking mad? [/quote]

 

The very fact that you had to ask would suggest there is an element of doubt on your part [:P]

I''d go with an unchanged side. The only change I would consider is maybe replacing Pilkington with Johnson and moving Crofts into the middle. So much of United''s play comes through Nani that Tierney might need a little more help than Pilkington will provide. Naughton will have his hands full too with Young but I think it is important to keep Bennett in the side as Evra is the weak link in that defence for me.

 

[/quote]

Nail on the head, mate... Nani is going to take some stopping with the form he is in, and I don''t think we can afford the ''luxury'' of two wide players in Pilkington and Bennett. Johnson would add muscle to the left while Crofts and Fox in the middle would certainly retain that mixture of bite and passing that Fox and BJ have formed in their partnership.

 

Bear in mind, though, that Fergie is given to ''resting'' players against the so-called weaker teams, and maybe we''ll be no exception.  If two from Fox, Crofts and Johnson come up against the likes of Anderson, Fletcher or Carrick, I don''t think its as straightforward a contest as the pundits might like to think. 

 

Our midfield will certainly give Man Utd something to think about, regardless of who plays, the main worry is how our defence will cope against their attacking forces. 

 

Thankfully, Rooney and Hernandez might be missing, so we only have to worry about last season''s top scorer, a former England international, and one of the most exciting young strikers to come through the Manure ranks in some years... ho hum. 

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I''d go same starting 11 myself, confidence and understandign between the players has been built. May as well use that and get at Man U, if we go too defensive in team selection and just sit back for wave after wave of attacks we will concede, no clean sheets this year underlines this

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IMO Lambert will alter it slightly.  The way we''ll rack up enough points to stay up is by not becoming predictable. And Lambert having the nads to alter a winning team is part of it.  For example, starting Holt against Manure and using his style to harass their defence similar to what he did against Chelsea.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]Is it a friendly on Saturday? Use it as a chance to see if untried players are any good?? Have you been sniffing lighter fuel this morning? The pnly chnage I would go for is Crofts in for Fox. Fox has been a star in the last two games but we''ll be under the cosh and dispossessing them will be the prime task. Mungo[/quote]

Whether you like it or not, we will have no choice but to use those players this season. Our current centre midfielders are:

Crofts, Johnson, Fox, Hoolahan

We are playing three in the middle right now. If you think that we aren''t going to need to use Lappin, Smith, and Surman this year then it is you that is sniffing lighter fuel this morning!

We have two wingers, plus Surman. If we get Pilkington injured then do we play the diamond? Or do we start trying Surman or Lappin on the left? If we get Bennett injured do we play Surman or Lappin on the left and Pilkington on the right? Or do we try and play Smith on the right?

We just don''t have the luxury of a big squad, we actually have a very small squad.

Lambert has said it himself, we need to use the entire 25. It''s no good getting to late November and early December when injuries and fatigue set in, having nobody with any minutes to bring into the team. I myself wouldn''t have expected to see Lappin this season, I''ve changed my mind by watching Surman.

It''s not unrealistic for us to see 2 or 3 injuries in midfield at the same time, we have seen 3 injuries at centre back already. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario... in November, we find ourselves with Fox, Pilkington, and Crofts out injured. We need to pick an XI...... knock yourself out.... name your XI......

As for the friendly bit, that''s just silly. It''s a well known tactic employed in this league, hence http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/15/premier-league-weakened-teams-holloway

Now, pick your XI. 
[/quote]

Of course we will need to use our weaker squad members occasionally due to injuries, suspensions etc, but not all at once when we have no need to change a winning team. That''s crazy.  

 

 

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The arguments for and against "wingers" are both on the threat from Nani (if he plays) and Young.

A winger potentially keeps their covering back busy whereas changing them for say Lappin gives more teeth.

I would go 50/50 by changing Pilkington for Lappin (Drury and De Laett are too slow) but keep the rest the same including Bennett who offers speed to make them keep defenders back.

Morison is the star at playing all by himself and he probably will be most of the afternoon.

Wes before last night I would have changed for Crofts but the lad was immense last night with running and bite so for me one change only.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Or am I just barking mad? [/quote]

The very fact that you had to ask would suggest there is an element of doubt on your part [:P]

I''d go with an unchanged side. The only change I would consider is maybe replacing Pilkington with Johnson and moving Crofts into the middle. So much of United''s play comes through Nani that Tierney might need a little more help than Pilkington will provide. Naughton will have his hands full too with Young but I think it is important to keep Bennett in the side as Evra is the weak link in that defence for me.

[/quote]Yes plenty of doubt! I might be certain about some things, but I doubt myself plenty of times about some things too! I still can''t decide whether my post was sensible or stupid.

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[quote user="CDMullins"]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="CDMullins"]I stopped reading your post when you suggested we started Smith, Jackson and Lappin [/quote]Why is it that you don''t rate Simeon Jackson? [/quote]

I really like Jackson, but not as much as I like Holt and Morison. Infact I''d give Jackson the opportunity before Vaughan and Martin.

As for Smith and Lappin, you couldnt give me one plausible reason why we would distrupt a winning team to play either of them.

[/quote]I can''t give you a plausible reason, other than that we might have to use them at some stage. Maybe this is just me being negative about our prospects at Man Utd, which isn''t really surprising, they have won 14-3 against Arsenal, Chelsea, and Tottenham so far at Old Trafford.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]Is it a friendly on Saturday? Use it as a chance to see if untried players are any good?? Have you been sniffing lighter fuel this morning? The pnly chnage I would go for is Crofts in for Fox. Fox has been a star in the last two games but we''ll be under the cosh and dispossessing them will be the prime task. Mungo[/quote]Whether you like it or not, we will have no choice but to use those players this season. Our current centre midfielders are:Crofts, Johnson, Fox, HoolahanWe are playing three in the middle right now. If you think that we aren''t going to need to use Lappin, Smith, and Surman this year then it is you that is sniffing lighter fuel this morning!We have two wingers, plus Surman. If we get Pilkington injured then do we play the diamond? Or do we start trying Surman or Lappin on the left? If we get Bennett injured do we play Surman or Lappin on the left and Pilkington on the right? Or do we try and play Smith on the right? We just don''t have the luxury of a big squad, we actually have a very small squad. Lambert has said it himself, we need to use the entire 25. It''s no good getting to late November and early December when injuries and fatigue set in, having nobody with any minutes to bring into the team. I myself wouldn''t have expected to see Lappin this season, I''ve changed my mind by watching Surman. It''s not unrealistic for us to see 2 or 3 injuries in midfield at the same time, we have seen 3 injuries at centre back already. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario... in November, we find ourselves with Fox, Pilkington, and Crofts out injured. We need to pick an XI...... knock yourself out.... name your XI......As for the friendly bit, that''s just silly. It''s a well known tactic employed in this league, hence http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/15/premier-league-weakened-teams-hollowayNow, pick your XI.  [/quote]

Of course we will need to use our weaker squad members occasionally due to injuries, suspensions etc, but not all at once when we have no need to change a winning team. That''s crazy.  

 [/quote]

Maybe it is crazy, I don''t know. My logic is to keep Swansea guessing.

Maybe playing Lappin and Smith was the crazy bit, maybe applying the same logic but bringing Crofts, Holt, and Jackson, into the side wouldn''t be so crazy?

I''d play Fox though actually, purely because it''s probably his dream to play at Old Trafford, having come through their system.

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]Saw Korey Smith on crutches last night - with his foot in a brace thing. He didn''t look good!...[/quote]I think some people have forgotten how good Korey Smith is, I see him as having the potential to be better than Crofts and Johnson in the long term, one of the best players to come through our system for years.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]Is it a friendly on Saturday? Use it as a chance to see if untried players are any good?? Have you been sniffing lighter fuel this morning? The pnly chnage I would go for is Crofts in for Fox. Fox has been a star in the last two games but we''ll be under the cosh and dispossessing them will be the prime task. Mungo[/quote]

Whether you like it or not, we will have no choice but to use those players this season. Our current centre midfielders are:

Crofts, Johnson, Fox, Hoolahan

We are playing three in the middle right now. If you think that we aren''t going to need to use Lappin, Smith, and Surman this year then it is you that is sniffing lighter fuel this morning!

We have two wingers, plus Surman. If we get Pilkington injured then do we play the diamond? Or do we start trying Surman or Lappin on the left? If we get Bennett injured do we play Surman or Lappin on the left and Pilkington on the right? Or do we try and play Smith on the right?

We just don''t have the luxury of a big squad, we actually have a very small squad.

Lambert has said it himself, we need to use the entire 25. It''s no good getting to late November and early December when injuries and fatigue set in, having nobody with any minutes to bring into the team. I myself wouldn''t have expected to see Lappin this season, I''ve changed my mind by watching Surman.

It''s not unrealistic for us to see 2 or 3 injuries in midfield at the same time, we have seen 3 injuries at centre back already. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario... in November, we find ourselves with Fox, Pilkington, and Crofts out injured. We need to pick an XI...... knock yourself out.... name your XI......

As for the friendly bit, that''s just silly. It''s a well known tactic employed in this league, hence http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/15/premier-league-weakened-teams-holloway

Now, pick your XI. 
[/quote]

Of course we will need to use our weaker squad members occasionally due to injuries, suspensions etc, but not all at once when we have no need to change a winning team. That''s crazy.  

 [/quote]

Maybe it is crazy, I don''t know. My logic is to keep Swansea guessing.

Maybe playing Lappin and Smith was the crazy bit, maybe applying the same logic but bringing Crofts, Holt, and Jackson, into the side wouldn''t be so crazy?

I''d play Fox though actually, purely because it''s probably his dream to play at Old Trafford, having come through their system.

[/quote]

 

Its my dream to play at Old Trafford (for Norwich obviously) would you play me?

 

So much bad logic in your posts!

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[quote user="CDMullins"]I stopped reading your post when you suggested we started Smith, Jackson and Lappin [/quote]

 

So did I, dont think he''ll rest our stars for such a big game to play 3 players who have hardly featured this season.

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Why change a winning side?! Yes it''s very likely that we will lose the game but you have to have a go at winning it, you never know what circumstances may present themselves.....what if United went down to 10 men early on? You''d be kicking yourself if we had a weakened side and couldnt capitalise.

Also look at West Brom last year, they went to Old Trafford had a go and got a bit of luck with Van Der Sar dropping the ball and bagged a point. Another factor is it''s likely Rooney and Hernandez will be missing so another reason to be optimistic.

I genuinely think we can go there and cause problems, as we did at Chelsea, and you never no we may get the luck which went against us at Chelsea and get something.

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