The missing striker?

[Yellow Shirt 17]

I keep going on about how Holt is a great second forward (essential to the team but really not going to bag as many as he sets up/enables in this league) and how we need a player to go along side... pace and instinctive finishing, no fear of shooting and getting in the right places.I have been scratching my head about who that could be- a Defoe/Long/Owen type of player I guess.I am not one of these Cody lovers who thinks he is underrated and the best thing since Messi but doesn''t he fit the description?I haven''t thought of him remotely as Prem quality but with Wibraham and Jackson in the squad I think we just might have a better option to try out with Holt or Morrison already under contract... how can it hurt to give him a spot on the bench before the 25 man squad has to be confirmed? Surely it can only put his price up if he gets a couple of top flight games and isn''t what we need??Like I say- it''s the first time I''ve considered him in terms of this league and if we don''t bring someone else in I think we need to give him a try. Any thoughts other than ''YEY CODY'' from those we already know feel that way?

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

James Vaughan?

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Injury prone to say the least- and not exactly the most prolific as far as I can tell.For all Lamberts great understanding has he actually signed any forwards who score goals?

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"]Injury prone to say the least- and not exactly the most prolific as far as I can tell.For all Lamberts great understanding has he actually signed any forwards who score goals?[/quote]Yes, he scored Simeon Jackson, who was our second top scorer last season. Next.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Actually- Morrison, but he is not what I''d call a striker so much as a forward... may be wrong about that one but I still think we need a good version of Jackson!

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Maybe we should wait for more than 3 games before judging?

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Yes, he scored Simeon Jackson, who was our second top scorer last season. Next. [/quote]13 from 40 in a team that was creating wave after wave of chances and 9 of those came in 9...so 4 goals in 31 games- he''s not reliable enough for my taste- a baron patch like that this season and we''re down.

[xxxx 0]

We need somebody who can stick the ball in the net , Morison and Vaughn look to be our best options but Vaughn will be injured more than he is fit .Strikers are hard to find though , Maynard being about the best left at Championship level and he again would be unproven , how about a bid for Crouch :-) plenty of height for our wingers to aim for .

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]Maybe we should wait for more than 3 games before judging?[/quote]yes- but then the window is closed til January... who is the Dean Ashton we should get now instead of waiting til January?With the exception of Holt (and I stand by what I say about him in terms of goals scored this season for now!) our forward line seems very lightweight compared to the one that started the last Prem season...McKenzie, Jonson, Svenson, Hucks, McVeigh even Jarvis had something I feel we are missing- and they needed Ashton added to them.We should not have got rid of Iwan at that point and I think we have that side covered in Holt and Morison- but where is the guy who will just pop up and nick in the half chances like Leon or WLY? Maybe it''s Hoolahan- but I don''t see him getting in the team much unless we play 4-5-1... and then he won''t be doing a lot of what he does so well!!Honestly not a reaction to last night in any way other than that I was hoping to be proved wrong by the strikers who started- and actually things seem worse than I thought outside of Martin, Morrison and Holt- and they are too similar to each other in too many ways. Maybe we can cross engineer Martin and Jackson to get a goal machine!

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

I always loved watching Paul McVeigh; here''s some highlights to remind you how direct he was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvfOfeuYGT0&feature=fvst

[Gingerpele 0]

Jackson wasn''t our top scorer last season, Holt scored over 20, Jackson scored under 15....

[CDMullins 436]

Great little video.

 

WLY had great technique, real good player. Loved his header against wolves in the play-offs!

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="LeJuge"]Yes, he scored Simeon Jackson, who was our second top scorer last season. Next. [/quote]13 from 40 in a team that was creating wave after wave of chances and 9 of those came in 9...so 4 goals in 31 games- he''s not reliable enough for my taste- a baron patch like that this season and we''re down.[/quote]Yes, or if you want to get all Mr Stato on me, 13 goals in 20 starts and 20 sub appearances. No doubt if you can equate that to goals per minute he was one of the most prolific strikers in the league last season.  If you want to throw the "wave after wave of chances" line at me, that can easily be countered too. He had 58 shots, 28 shots on target. In other words, 48% of his shots were on target, or he needed 4.4 shots per goal to score. Using Grant Holts league stats from the same source, our top scorer, he started 44 games and had 1 substitute appearance, scoring 21 goals (can you see where this is heading yet?). He had 99 shots on goal, of which 33 were on target. That equates to a goal per shot ratio of 4.7 shots per goal. He got 33% of his shots on target.  I''m not saying that Jackson is as good as Holt of course, he isn''t, Grant Holt set up a hell of a lot of goals last year. But Jackson is good striker to those who don''t want to get all maths teacher on the subject, as well as those who do want to geek around on spreadsheets. The fact that he finished 13th in the top scorers chart last year despite only starting 20 games says it all. Dave Nugent, a player capped by England, and somebody that people on here were calling for us to sign..... scored 13 league goals too, from 93 shots on goal. You do the maths there mate, Jackson is a true hitman. There are other strikers who scored 13 league goals too:Simeon Jackson        58 shots      13 goalsDave Nugent              93 shots      13 goalsHeider Helguson       62 shots      13 goalsBrett Pitman              63 shots      13 goalsAnd 12 goals.....Marlon King               71 shots      12 goalsLeroy Lita                   66 shots      12 goals     As far as I''m concerned he put away his chances, I struggled to find too many with a better strike rate. Simeon Jackson is lethal in front of goal, whether you think so or not, and I''ve proven that by playing you at your own game there. Give him the ball and he''ll stick it in the net. What that also shows is that if he had played enough to get 99 shots on goal last season, he would have outscored Holt. Top signing, top striker, and I expect him to hit form again at some stage this season. He will outshine James Vaughan this year, I''m confident of that.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Jackson wasn''t our top scorer last season, Holt scored over 20, Jackson scored under 15....[/quote]Isn''t it just great when people make irrelevant throw away comments as a result of not reading threads properly. If you can''t be bothered to read the threads, then don''t write on them either, yeah?

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="LeJuge"]Yes, he scored Simeon Jackson, who was our second top scorer last season. Next. [/quote]13 from 40 in a team that was creating wave after wave of chances and 9 of those came in 9...so 4 goals in 31 games- he''s not reliable enough for my taste- a baron patch like that this season and we''re down.[/quote]Yes, or if you want to get all Mr Stato on me, 13 goals in 20 starts and 20 sub appearances. No doubt if you can equate that to goals per minute he was one of the most prolific strikers in the league last season.  If you want to throw the "wave after wave of chances" line at me, that can easily be countered too. He had 58 shots, 28 shots on target. In other words, 48% of his shots were on target, or he needed 4.4 shots per goal to score. Using Grant Holts league stats from the same source, our top scorer, he started 44 games and had 1 substitute appearance, scoring 21 goals (can you see where this is heading yet?). He had 99 shots on goal, of which 33 were on target. That equates to a goal per shot ratio of 4.7 shots per goal. He got 33% of his shots on target.  I''m not saying that Jackson is as good as Holt of course, he isn''t, Grant Holt set up a hell of a lot of goals last year. But Jackson is good striker to those who don''t want to get all maths teacher on the subject, as well as those who do want to geek around on spreadsheets. The fact that he finished 13th in the top scorers chart last year despite only starting 20 games says it all. Dave Nugent, a player capped by England, and somebody that people on here were calling for us to sign..... scored 13 league goals too, from 93 shots on goal. You do the maths there mate, Jackson is a true hitman. There are other strikers who scored 13 league goals too:Simeon Jackson        58 shots      13 goalsDave Nugent              93 shots      13 goalsHeider Helguson       62 shots      13 goalsBrett Pitman              63 shots      13 goalsAnd 12 goals.....Marlon King               71 shots      12 goalsLeroy Lita                   66 shots      12 goals     As far as I''m concerned he put away his chances, I struggled to find too many with a better strike rate. Simeon Jackson is lethal in front of goal, whether you think so or not, and I''ve proven that by playing you at your own game there. Give him the ball and he''ll stick it in the net. What that also shows is that if he had played enough to get 99 shots on goal last season, he would have outscored Holt. Top signing, top striker, and I expect him to hit form again at some stage this season. He will outshine James Vaughan this year, I''m confident of that. [/quote]9 goals in 51 shots by Vaughan last year by the way, that''s 1 in every 5.67 shots against Jacksons 4.4 shots per goal. Chances are hard to come by in this league, how many can we create per game? One more shot per goal? Can we afford that? Not with the 2 or 3 chances per match that we have been creating so far. Lambert will soon work out that he needs a poacher in this division, and that the only poacher we have is Simeon Jackson. I still expect him to win back a place in the team, playing alongside Morison or Holt, and I bet he will take it.

[Boris 56]

In modern football players who can score goals at this level  worth 15 milion+

Vaughan I watch 2 games on Palace was not so impressive also....

Im sure PL know that we sill struggle with this forwards but is never izi to find top player for that position without broke bank.

I belive because that he add middf players who can score goals and have record Pilkington Benett etc...

Still we look competative this days hope to keep spirit long possible.

 

 

[Captain Fantastic 0]

Jay Rodriguez

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Captain Fantastic"]Jay Rodriguez[/quote]Another player who isn''t as good as Simeon Jackson. 14 goals in 35 starts and 5 sub appearances V 13 goals in 20 starts and 20 sub appearances14 goals in 104 shots V 13 goals in 58 shots1 goal every 7.4 shots V 1 goal in every 4.4 shots38% of shots on target V 48% of shots on targetI thought that the days of Jackson being under rated were well and truly over after he burst into life and showed us just how good he is. There are very few Championship strikers who were more lethal than Simeon Jackson last year in front of goal. If goals are what people are demanding, then targets should be judged on goals, and judging by goals..... Jackson is class.

[Morisons Prozac 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Captain Fantastic"]Jay Rodriguez[/quote]Another player who isn''t as good as Simeon Jackson. 14 goals in 35 starts and 5 sub appearances V 13 goals in 20 starts and 20 sub appearances14 goals in 104 shots V 13 goals in 58 shots1 goal every 7.4 shots V 1 goal in every 4.4 shots38% of shots on target V 48% of shots on targetI thought that the days of Jackson being under rated were well and truly over after he burst into life and showed us just how good he is. There are very few Championship strikers who were more lethal than Simeon Jackson last year in front of goal. If goals are what people are demanding, then targets should be judged on goals, and judging by goals..... Jackson is class.[/quote]Very well done. Shut the Jackson moaners right up. It''s crazy people criticise him after 3 games, so far IMO Holt hasn''t impressed much so far so why is he off limits for criticsm?

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="LeJuge"]Yes, he scored Simeon Jackson, who was our second top scorer last season. Next. [/quote]13 from 40 in a team that was creating wave after wave of chances and 9 of those came in 9...so 4 goals in 31 games- he''s not reliable enough for my taste- a baron patch like that this season and we''re down.[/quote]Yes, or if you want to get all Mr Stato on me, 13 goals in 20 starts and 20 sub appearances. No doubt if you can equate that to goals per minute he was one of the most prolific strikers in the league last season.  If you want to throw the "wave after wave of chances" line at me, that can easily be countered too. He had 58 shots, 28 shots on target. In other words, 48% of his shots were on target, or he needed 4.4 shots per goal to score. Using Grant Holts league stats from the same source, our top scorer, he started 44 games and had 1 substitute appearance, scoring 21 goals (can you see where this is heading yet?). He had 99 shots on goal, of which 33 were on target. That equates to a goal per shot ratio of 4.7 shots per goal. He got 33% of his shots on target.  I''m not saying that Jackson is as good as Holt of course, he isn''t, Grant Holt set up a hell of a lot of goals last year. But Jackson is good striker to those who don''t want to get all maths teacher on the subject, as well as those who do want to geek around on spreadsheets. The fact that he finished 13th in the top scorers chart last year despite only starting 20 games says it all. Dave Nugent, a player capped by England, and somebody that people on here were calling for us to sign..... scored 13 league goals too, from 93 shots on goal. You do the maths there mate, Jackson is a true hitman. There are other strikers who scored 13 league goals too:Simeon Jackson        58 shots      13 goalsDave Nugent              93 shots      13 goalsHeider Helguson       62 shots      13 goalsBrett Pitman              63 shots      13 goalsAnd 12 goals.....Marlon King               71 shots      12 goalsLeroy Lita                   66 shots      12 goals     As far as I''m concerned he put away his chances, I struggled to find too many with a better strike rate. Simeon Jackson is lethal in front of goal, whether you think so or not, and I''ve proven that by playing you at your own game there. Give him the ball and he''ll stick it in the net. What that also shows is that if he had played enough to get 99 shots on goal last season, he would have outscored Holt. Top signing, top striker, and I expect him to hit form again at some stage this season. He will outshine James Vaughan this year, I''m confident of that. [/quote]9 goals in 51 shots by Vaughan last year by the way, that''s 1 in every 5.67 shots against Jacksons 4.4 shots per goal. Chances are hard to come by in this league, how many can we create per game? One more shot per goal? Can we afford that? Not with the 2 or 3 chances per match that we have been creating so far. Lambert will soon work out that he needs a poacher in this division, and that the only poacher we have is Simeon Jackson. I still expect him to win back a place in the team, playing alongside Morison or Holt, and I bet he will take it.[/quote]You must know that the vast majority of our fans will not see certain truth''s that stare them in the face, no matter how many times certain people go over them?  We all know that the majority want Mr Undroppable plus a New Hero upfront for us this season, no matter how they perform???I too would be going with Morsion and Jackson if fit. [Y]I thought that the guy that some of our fans would''ve sold for £500k during the summer - Chris Martin - was great against Stoke on Sunday too.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Crofts Number 1 Wizard"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Captain Fantastic"]Jay Rodriguez[/quote]Another player who isn''t as good as Simeon Jackson. 14 goals in 35 starts and 5 sub appearances V 13 goals in 20 starts and 20 sub appearances14 goals in 104 shots V 13 goals in 58 shots1 goal every 7.4 shots V 1 goal in every 4.4 shots38% of shots on target V 48% of shots on targetI thought that the days of Jackson being under rated were well and truly over after he burst into life and showed us just how good he is. There are very few Championship strikers who were more lethal than Simeon Jackson last year in front of goal. If goals are what people are demanding, then targets should be judged on goals, and judging by goals..... Jackson is class.[/quote]Very well done. Shut the Jackson moaners right up. It''s crazy people criticise him after 3 games, so far IMO Holt hasn''t impressed much so far so why is he off limits for criticsm?[/quote]Holty will still be starting week in week out if he doesn''t net this side of Christmas though, you can almost guarantee it.For me he hasn''t shown enough to gurantee his place in the starting line up so far this season.Great if he comes and proves me and others wrong again like he did last season, but even Lee Dixon & Co reckon he will need plenty of pace around him to have the desired effect in this league.Any of our other strikers would be sat on the bench if they did not score in four or five games and the same should apply to Holty in my book.  We can''t afford to be guaranteeing a starting place to a striker that is not finding the back of the net this season.

[Gingerpele 0]

Sumdger, it will apply to Holy. Do you really think Lambert is the kind of person who is willing to play someone if they are rubbish? Especially in this league. Last season his average/poor start was down to fitness. This season he doesn''t have an excuse, but against Stoke at least he did as good a job as could have been expected really.

I fail to understand why everyone thinks Morrison is some sort of super player, barley knew the name when he signed, but suddenly he''s better than Holt (second top scorer last season in the Championship).

I personally don''t rate Jackson, you mention people not accepting truths/facts staring them in the face Sumdger, well thats true to an extent. First opinions count, I didn''t like JAckson from the start, i was hoping he would come good, and he did he was a huge part of our promotion push. But before that he never really looked all that wonderful in my opinion. But then i swear blind that C.Martin is a great player, and some people really can''t see how he''s any good, multiple people thought he was poor against Stoke. Its all personal opinions, even when stats like the ones provided by Le Judge are brought up, i don''t want Rodrgiuez here anyway, but just because of those stats it doesn''t make me suddenly think Jackson is a wonder player.

Another thing to consider, especially if we are only going to be getting 1/2 goals most games (can''t really expect more even if we are an attacking side) then the strikers don''t need to be scoring all the time. What Holt did against Stoke gave us multiple opportunities to either put the ball in the box from a free-kick or build up play in the opponents half, if he does that and we score from a free kick (and tbh, De Leat could have scored from any free kick, just so happened to be one Bennett won rather than Holt) thats still a contribution, something i don''t think Jackson/Martin/Vaughan and maybe even Morrison can do as well.

If Holt doesn''t get dropped at all, its on merit of his performances this season, not the previous two/him being captain, I think anyone who thinks his place is guaranteed even if he plays badly continuously is wrong. Although i do understand why people can think that.

[Smudger 0]

So how many of you on here would pick a striker to start week in week out if he hasn''t scored for us by the end of August, the end of September, the end of October, the end of November, the end of December, the end of January etc etc???Maybe a few of you who cant face dropping certain players would be able to tell me what stage of the season you might start to get itchy feet if we are picking a striker who is not finding the back of the net?I have no problem with any of our strikers if they are performing, but we haven''t looked exactly potent so far up front have we?Of course whoever is picked for Saturday, won''t even be expected to score by most no doubt?  So when do we change it?  If Holty hasn''t netted by the time we play Sunderland (h), or Man Utd (a), or Swansea (h), or Liverpool (a), or do we give it longer?I''m not a believer that any of our forwards warrant a certain starting place and that there really isn''t as much between each of our first five strikers as most would have you believe.  I think that all of our strikers can play with each other if given the time to work together and gel and am not a believer that we definitely need a big man up there for the majority of games either.It''s just a logical question, because of most fans reactions to the very thought of it seem to suggest that we have at least one individual in our team who is undroppabable.  So having 3 or 4 hungry strikers on the bench, how long would each of you give a striker that is not finiding the back of the net the opportunity to do so?

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]It''s just a logical question, because of most fans reactions to the very thought of it seem to suggest that we have at least one individual in our team who is undroppabable.  So having 3 or 4 hungry strikers on the bench, how long would each of you give a striker that is not finiding the back of the net the opportunity to do so?[/quote]I think that this will become the big talking point on here over the next few months. How important are goals scored to the overall contribution of a striker? Holt had a decent game on Sunday I felt and kept the Stoke central defenders busy all game. He was ably assisted by Chris Martin who had an excellent game linking up the play and but for a decent save from Begovic and a couple of slightly overhit crosses may well have got himself on the scoresheet. His contribution, once again, seems to have been overlooked by many City fans but that doesn''t surprise me greatly.I said before the Wigan game that there was no way that Holt was going to score the fifteen plus goals some had predicted this season and his success or otherwise at this level would more difficult to measure than in the past two seasons. It is possible to play well as a centre forward and contribute to the team without scoring a hatful of goals (''The Heskey Paradox'' [;)]) but if we are struggling fans are unlikely to notice this. Put it this way, if we get to the end of September and Holt has maybe only scored once but we have picked up a couple of wins and his all round game has been good then I would consider him to have done well. But if he is not scoring and is also struggling to bring others into the game and generally be a nuisance to the opposition defence then it would be difficult to justify his place in the team.

[smooth 114]

When Jackson came on for Holt I don''t think any of us thought he would score one let alone a hat-trick. In fact I laughed hwen he scored thinking that was it.

But what happened was great, because as a team we had a new style of play that teams were unprepared for. They hadn''t scouted for jackson in ncfc team and hence a new way of playing was in.

But as I have mentioned, he is a worry this season, it took him half a season to gain confidence and if it happens once it can happen again. Off season came at the wrong time for him, now a bad performance when players had a chance to poke their noses into the squad for stamford bridge. He amongst others fell very short. Did it surprise me, no not after the offseason and the new players. As another thread states you buy players that should be better than our first 11. Naughton better than r. martin, de laet better than whitbread. That makes sense.

I don''t have massive confidence in jackson, I hope he surprise me, but I wasn''t impressed when we signed him and he lived up to reputation. Yes he found form but what worries more is that he took a long time to find form.

Lambert is brilliant as he positively re-inforces players, no doubt he will bring the best out of jackson but in this league you cannot wait. We need to be flying out of the blocks and making a statement individually and as a team.

Does that mean we need a new striker, I think in jan we will. But I really hope one of strikers can have a very quick start to the season like carroll last year.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

It''s interesting that this thread has become a discussion about Jackson and Holt.To me Holt is doing an important job- that''s why I think he deserves his spot for now... if he is not holding the ball, buying time and hassling defenders or scoring then he would not be in my team, but he is.Jackson doesn''t convince me- I''m sorry that I am seen as having resorted to stats to make a point... it is only to remind people that although he did have a fairly hot streak at the end of the season the rest of last year was not so effective. Even in the hot streak a lot of those goals cane in a couple of games against poor and demoralised oposition.. I don''t know, he just doesnt convince me.Any way- the question I still haven''t had everyone''s opinions on was doesn''t Cody fit the criteria of what we might want to add to the squad? Imagine Jackson is injured so that question is out of the window.

[Jonzey 0]

I am very thankful there are posters like you on here Le Juge. Well played son.

Jacko is the perfect back up striker this season to Vaughan and Morison. with Chrissy Martin waiting in the wings we have good strength in depth up front. What is everybody moaning about?!

[Smudger 0]

If there is room for Wheeliebin in our squad then there should perhaps be room for Cody Yellow Shirt.

I am pretty sure that Wheeliebin probably will not get a kick for us this season and certainly think that we are in BIG TROUBLE if we do resort to playing him ever.

[Smudger 0]

I too thought that Chris Martin was excellent Shack and that Morison was easily the best of our strikers at Wigan.

Therefore Martin and Morison if fit, to start at Chelsea on Saturday? I doubt it very much somehow.

It seems that there is loyalty in spades from most people connected with NCFC for some players and that it isn''t based on recent performances.

Therefore it is no wonder that some of our reserves can''t be bothered to perform for us at times, as per MK Dons on Tuesday night.

[Mahogany 0]

Martin played well in the second half again Stoke, but Holt played well in the first, wouldn''t say Martin had played well enough to replace Holt in the line-up. But I do think the way Martin played, as in the style rather than quality means he is the obvious backup for Holt, both strikers against Holt seemed to be playing a targetman style role, something Morison, Jackson and Vaughan aren''t able to do.

But as for against Chelsea, 1 up front with wingers, either Holt or Morison, depending on whether we are going direct or not.