Start of Season 2004-5 v now - A perspective

[rocky marshall 0]

In his most recent post, Rick Waghorn makes a number of observations regarding the current manager and team... that Paul Lambert is on a premier league learning curve, that the start (and points) is one that he expected (2points from 3 matches), and that Grant Holt has proved he is a Premier League class player. He also points to the fact that, in scoring in every one of the first three games NCFC have proved that they have what it takes to unlock premier league defences.

We also scored in the first four matches in 2004, against stronger opposition than we have played so far this season (namely United and Invincibles Arsenal on their way to 50 games unbeaten) and had 2 points. the start then was undoubtedly harder than now.

It amuses me how many point to 2004 as a failure (and it was to a certain extent - always more-so in hindsight) but with the start (with previous years PL positions as appropriate) as it was against Palace (Div 1 Playoff Winners), ManU (3rd), Arsenal (1st), Tottenham (14th), Liverpool (4th), Newcastle (5th) and Villa (6th), compared to Wigan (16th) , Stoke (13th), Chelsea (2nd), WBA (11th), Bolton (14th), Sunderland (10th) and Man Utd (1st), the bounty of 4 points then compared to now for a team ''finding its way into the Division'' doesnt seem to bad... West Brom only had 4 points by the end of game 7 and they survived... Palace had 2, Southampton 4!

The draining of confidence, even from a title winning team, cannot be underestimated. A team of honest pros playing 5 of the top 6 from the previous year... and now people look pack with scorn on the ''poor start''. They were dealt a really harsh hand. And when the wins dont come, as Rick alludes to, Lady Luck'' doesnt even look at you, never mind smile!

I would be more concerned that given that two of the three matches this season have been against pretty average Prem sides and we are not any further forward than Worthington''s team, who was also on a ''learning curve'' in terms of Premier League tactics, teams, players and points.

Many of Ricks points could easily be pointed at the 2004 team; the work ethic in 2004 was legendary, the ''togetherness and camraderie'' there for all to see. A strong core with more peripheral players waiting in the wings if needed; Jarvis and Crow had nowhere near the same experience as Chris Martin and Korey Smith have today.

On balance some of the imports didnt work out so well; Helveg took time to find his feet, Jonsson played wide when a frontman, Simon Charlton past his best etc etc.. Ashton arrived too late but still got 7 in half a season!

Of todays first seven, Chelsea are nowhere near the team then, most of the others are workmanlike Premier sides; and judging by Man U today they may be a handful! WBA have stuttered and the rest a mixed bag.

Perhaps, at the end of the season, on reflection, the mountain of a start that was placed before the 2004 team might be given a more favourable retrospective stand point than many have chosen to ignore.

the end of the season - The excitement felt by all at CR in those final few weeks (Newcastle, Man U, Brimingham and Charlton) - was

as memorable as any times in recent memory!

Paul Lambert has worked wonders with the team, no one expected promotion - no one expected a Championship in 2004. Time will tell if he can adapt to the league - Both he and Worhtington were the same age taking the team into the best league in the world - but as Darwinists would point out - survival is not about the biggest or strongest but the most adaptable. We didnt adapt quick enough in 2004, but that was because we ran into some bigger and stronger teams who had already adapted.

[Pabs 0]

Boring...

[smooth 114]

The end of the 2004-05 season is remembered by all of us as the season

(1) that took 13 games to win a game

(2) not a single away win

(3) lack of investment in the team that started the campaign

(4) hence the late signing of a genuine striker

(5) a FA Cup defeat against west ham which brought injuries to key players and a loss in confidence

(6) a last ditch attempt to stay up having us in a great position for the final game.

(7) That last game away to a lowly Fulham with nothing to play for and then leading us to the rot we were in until Lambert arrived.

I agree that these points stick out and you forget we signed a great centre forward in ashton, the draw with middlesborough, hux running at teams, the win against newcastle and the win against man u. But it didn''t lead to us staying up and were always nearly men.

We did have a tough start that season as a newly promoted team you want to be that unknown quantity, We were but it brought us no results and that is what we do remember.

So what we know from the 2004-05 season is that we you cannot rest on your laurels and say a result will come. You have to make a result come and want it more than your opponent. I know that is easier said than done, but it has to be shown against some teams and in important games, which wba will be.

But I think many of us would agree with one of your points regarding the opposition we had played before Chelsea, they posed a chance to get a real start on the premier league. It does mean that the game with wba is huge and the away game at Bolton is also a winnable game. So although I am pleased with the performance and cohesion with the new boys, the need for results are key in this league.

Before you know it half a season would have gone without a win and the view ''we are learning, this is new to us, we hope to survive'' 2004-05 mantra. But I think with Lambert we do have a better manager and I believe he knows that the premier league is not new to us now. We are in it and playing and being a match for a number of teams. Now is the time for possible back to back wins against wba and bolton.

[211203 0]

I agree the start was tougher than last time.  I remember thinking before the start of the season that the fixtures people had really screwed us, and after failing to win the opener against Palace we had a long run of games that a draw was the best realistic outcome, and the winless tag became a millstone round our necks.

 

Mind you, in 2004 we had Hucks in his prime, IMO the main reason we got so close to staying up, plus of course Dean Ashton when he arrived, and Rob Green was a quality prem keeper.

 

The big flaws in the 2004 team for me were lack of a quality striker for the first half of the season, and weakness at the centre of defence.

 

This time around we look strong going forward - against Chelsea, with a bit more composure we could have been ahead with 15 mins to go.  Midfield we are looking pretty good with Johnson holding Fox out of the team (although I''d like to have someone as backup for Hoolahan).  In defence De Laet could be excellent, if he can settle down and eliminate the blunders, and we have a pretty strong set of other centre backs (although we obviously have a short term injury problem here with Ayala, Nelson and Whitbread all injured) and at fullback we''re strong.  We''ll now find out whether it was the right decision to leave Rudd as the cover for Ruddy.

 

The big question mark for me is whether we just need to wise up in our approach in the penalty area, or if avoiding pens/sending offs will just mean we ship more goals ?  That is my only real worry for this season at 3 games in, so overall I''m happier than where we stood early in 2004.  Also I think we simply have a better manager who will learn quickly and get the most out of the players.

[211203 0]

I meant "the start was tougher last time"

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"although we obviously have a short term injury problem here with Ayala, Nelson and Whitbread all injured"

 

Poor old Wardy, no chance now that Nels is back.

[pat51 0]

My regret of the 2004-5 season was that there were 4 teams far worse than the rest and we lost a point away at Southampton and 2 at Palace in the final minutes in end of season games were we had played well..

With those points against our direct rivals the last day surrender at Fulham would have been irrelevant.

Don''t think here will be four teams tailed off long before the end of the season this time.

[smooth 114]

Pat I was at the soton game. Good reminder.

God that season was a real emotional rollercoaster and hence we don''t need that again.

There were too many mistakes and as fans we all saw and knew them.

Just need that win against wba and go for the win at bolton and make a statement of intent.

[211203 0]

[quote user="Lambert is god"]

"although we obviously have a short term injury problem here with Ayala, Nelson and Whitbread all injured"

 

Poor old Wardy, no chance now that Nels is back.

[/quote]

 

Obviously I meant Ayala, Doc and Whitbread all injured

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="211203"][quote user="Lambert is god"]

"although we obviously have a short term injury problem here with Ayala, Nelson and Whitbread all injured"

 

Poor old Wardy, no chance now that Nels is back.

[/quote]

 

Obviously I meant Ayala, Doc and Whitbread all injured

[/quote]Oh man, Askou''s injured again?