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Only one keeper this weekend?

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Cookieace"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Cookieace"]So much negativity, PL has done very well after these past two years and now people are questioning his judgement? Unbelievable If you ask me. ILWT![/quote]

He isn''t the sun god, he is human and he can make mistakes. This is potentially a mistake. It will become a mistake if Rudd gets injured or sent off, or shows himself way out of his depth. I don''t think we can afford the risk, if the decision costs us 2 or 3 points, then it could be crucial.

I find it laughable that because Lambert has done well we have to agree with every one of his decisions. If football ever becomes like that I will stop attending games.
[/quote] I am not saying that, if it fucks up then you should jump on his back. I personally also think lambert is riding his luck, but at the same time I trust his judgement.[/quote]

Well then we are of two completely different schools of thought. Personally I hate those who jump over something with the amazing gift of hindsight. By putting my fears out there now, I am more than entitled to say "told you so".

You, on the other hand, will have no right to do so having criticised those who dare question Lambert. On the other hand, if Rudd has an absolute blinder and looks like a potential future England keeper, keeps us in the game, and makes us all realise how great he is.... then I will say "Now I see why Lambert didn''t sign an experienced back up keeper". At least, I will say that if we get through this entire season without regretting the signing of another keeper.

The fact that you are criticising me for being afraid of a possible eventuality, but would be happy for me to remain silent and instead be critical in retrospect, says it all really. That is the last thing that I would do, what kind of person would I have to be to praise Lambert for not signing a keeper, only to criticise him for the same thing a few days later?

I''d love to be proved wrong, but the idea that I have to suppress my instincts and opinions and become one of those know it alls who predicted everything but "just didn''t say it" is not particularly appealing to me.

So I''ll say it again, I am worried about Rudd with a kid on the bench, would have preferred Lambert to sign an experienced keeper. I''ve stuck my opinion out there, and as the season progresses we will find out whether or not I am proved wrong.... or indeed whether Lambert signs another keeper at some stage. I''ve been wrong plenty of times before, just like I''ve been right plenty of times before. I was wrong about Simeon Jackson last season, who I had completely written off, if Rudd wants to prove me completely wrong too then nobody will be any more happier than me.
[/quote]

 

Judging by the correct/incorrect use of capital letters, I should think so.

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[quote user="Wings of a Sparrow"]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Cookieace"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Cookieace"]So much negativity, PL has done very well after these past two years and now people are questioning his judgement? Unbelievable If you ask me. ILWT![/quote]He isn''t the sun god, he is human and he can make mistakes. This is potentially a mistake. It will become a mistake if Rudd gets injured or sent off, or shows himself way out of his depth. I don''t think we can afford the risk, if the decision costs us 2 or 3 points, then it could be crucial. I find it laughable that because Lambert has done well we have to agree with every one of his decisions. If football ever becomes like that I will stop attending games.[/quote] I am not saying that, if it fucks up then you should jump on his back. I personally also think lambert is riding his luck, but at the same time I trust his judgement.[/quote]Well then we are of two completely different schools of thought. Personally I hate those who jump over something with the amazing gift of hindsight. By putting my fears out there now, I am more than entitled to say "told you so". You, on the other hand, will have no right to do so having criticised those who dare question Lambert. On the other hand, if Rudd has an absolute blinder and looks like a potential future England keeper, keeps us in the game, and makes us all realise how great he is.... then I will say "Now I see why Lambert didn''t sign an experienced back up keeper". At least, I will say that if we get through this entire season without regretting the signing of another keeper. The fact that you are criticising me for being afraid of a possible eventuality, but would be happy for me to remain silent and instead be critical in retrospect, says it all really. That is the last thing that I would do, what kind of person would I have to be to praise Lambert for not signing a keeper, only to criticise him for the same thing a few days later? I''d love to be proved wrong, but the idea that I have to suppress my instincts and opinions and become one of those know it alls who predicted everything but "just didn''t say it" is not particularly appealing to me. So I''ll say it again, I am worried about Rudd with a kid on the bench, would have preferred Lambert to sign an experienced keeper. I''ve stuck my opinion out there, and as the season progresses we will find out whether or not I am proved wrong.... or indeed whether Lambert signs another keeper at some stage. I''ve been wrong plenty of times before, just like I''ve been right plenty of times before. I was wrong about Simeon Jackson last season, who I had completely written off, if Rudd wants to prove me completely wrong too then nobody will be any more happier than me. [/quote]

Judging by the correct/incorrect use of capital letters, I should think so.

[/quote]I''ve read my post through and couldn''t find a mistake? So I can only assume that you are referring to cookieace there.

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[quote user="Cookieace"]If lambert and Rudd fuck up I will turn around and say I was wrong and so was he, but how would Rudd feel if one minute is saying I have confidence in you and the next brings in a back up keeper. If he does do well then I will be the one to tell you I told you so.[/quote]

---

That is too short-term a view. Anyone can have a one-off stormer, or a nightmare. Andy Marshall''s first full game after Gunn had been injured was one of the greatest exhibitions of shot-stopping I''ve seen from a Norwich keeper (and I''ve watched at least 20 of them, going back to Sandy Kennon). Relegation certainly wasn''t Marshall''s fault, of course, but his inexperience cost us vital points.

 

The question - at least in my mind - was never whether Lambert should have got in a keeper for one game. That would have been silly. But whether Rudd would be an adequate stand-in all the way through until January if Ruddy were to get a serious injury once the transfer window shut. In other words, should we have done what every other side in the Premier League has done and got in at least one experienced back-up at the outset?

 

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Lambert must have given that question considerable thought over the summer. He has had time and money to bring in another keeper if he wanted, he chose not to.

I know that Lambert has watched Declan play rather a lot more than I have.

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[quote user="Cookieace"]If lambert and Rudd fuck up I will turn around and say I was wrong and so was he, but how would Rudd feel if one minute is saying I have confidence in you and the next brings in a back up keeper.

If he does do well then I will be the one to tell you I told you so.[/quote]It''s not just about this one game though, it''s about the whole season. Like I said though, I''m more than happy to be proved wrong, but I''ll decide whether or not being the only team in the league without two seasoned keepers on the books was a mistake or not. We can both agree that it is a risk, the only thing that we don''t seem to be able to agree on is that if you take risks at this level you will be punished.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Cookieace"]If lambert and Rudd fuck up I will turn around and say I was wrong and so was he, but how would Rudd feel if one minute is saying I have confidence in you and the next brings in a back up keeper. If he does do well then I will be the one to tell you I told you so.[/quote]

---

That is too short-term a view. Anyone can have a one-off stormer, or a nightmare. Andy Marshall''s first full game after Gunn had been injured was one of the greatest exhibitions of shot-stopping I''ve seen from a Norwich keeper (and I''ve watched at least 20 of them, going back to Sandy Kennon). Relegation certainly wasn''t Marshall''s fault, of course, but his inexperience cost us vital points.

The question - at least in my mind - was never whether Lambert should have got in a keeper for one game. That would have been silly. But whether Rudd would be an adequate stand-in all the way through until January if Ruddy were to get a serious injury once the transfer window shut. In other words, should we have done what every other side in the Premier League has done and got in at least one experienced back-up at the outset?

[/quote]Beat me to it there. I hope that Rudd has a great game against West Brom, but if he does there is still plenty of time for the lack of experienced keepers to become an easily avoided mistake. Of course, as Norwich fans we know this all too well, for reasons that you have already explained (Marshall). It is also worth noting that in the Gunn/Marshall days the transfer deadline was open right up until March, it was no doubt Chase''s refusal to spend money rather than Megson''s (or whoever was in charge, might have been Deehan?) decision not to have another keeper in the squad. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) if this gamble doesn''t pay off, the buck will stop at Lambert this time and not at anybody in the boardroom.I support every one of Lamberts signings this season, I think that he has bought very well. But I was saying from the off that he should sign a keeper for a season and get Rudd out on loan with a recall clause. Even if we had signed Richard Wright (still a free agent by the way), and then chosen to recall Rudd anyway for this game rather than playing Wright, we would be recalling a keeper who had played 6 or 7 games already this year (just like Steer has at Yeovil). We should have signed a keeper to get Rudd some experience, it really is as simple as that. If Rudd were to play a full season of football somewhere, anywhere, then we wouldn''t have this concern next year...... because Rudd would have 50+ games under his belt instead of less than a dozen.

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[quote user="Number 9"]Lambert must have given that question considerable thought over the summer. He has had time and money to bring in another keeper if he wanted, he chose not to.

I know that Lambert has watched Declan play rather a lot more than I have.[/quote]Adrian Coote was a prolific goalscorer for the youth team, in the reserve team, and in training. I''m talking about 20-30 goals per season in the reserve league. That doesn''t mean that he was any good when put in front of 16000 people in the Championship in games which actually meant anything, I''m sure that Nwankwo Kanu still looks like a world beater in training, but he has only scored 3 goals in 38 championship games. You can carry an ineffective outfield player though, there is no hiding for the keeper, most important player on the pitch.

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It wouldn''t have done any harm whatsoever to sign Richard Wright for a year on a couple of grand a week, we have two empty spaces, signing somebody to sit on the bench ''just in case'' wouldn''t have been difficult. I would feel a lot happier if Rudd were starting on Sunday with somebody on the bench who can come on should be get injured, sent off, or has an absolute nightmare.

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Whatever happens, I know Carrow Road will get behind Rudd at 13:25 when the team walk out onto the pitch.

But the concern remains if he gets injured or with our run of luck gets sent off! I think we should have got an emergency loan, only if for back up to Rudd.

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[quote user="Canaries Utd"]Whatever happens, I know Carrow Road will get behind Rudd at 13:25 when the team walk out onto the pitch. But the concern remains if he gets injured or with our run of luck gets sent off! I think we should have got an emergency loan, only if for back up to Rudd.[/quote]

 

Thats my ONLY real concern too.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Canaries Utd"]Whatever happens, I know Carrow Road will get behind Rudd at 13:25 when the team walk out onto the pitch. But the concern remains if he gets injured or with our run of luck gets sent off! I think we should have got an emergency loan, only if for back up to Rudd.[/quote]

 

Thats my ONLY real concern too.

[/quote]Can never tell if its sarcasm with you Mr Wizard??

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I think Rudd is good enough to step in but in all seriousness will have huge concerns if we don''t at least recall Steer to sit on the bench for this one? I have not seen anything about this so assume we have not done so as of yet?

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[quote user="Cookieace"]If the capital letters was at me, its because I am on a blackberry typing. It will be very concerning if Rudd is injured or gets sent off, but let''s back our boys on Sunday! :)[/quote]

 

Not aimed at you my friend, I meant since St Pauls appointment this is the first time I''ve ever questioned his descision.

 

Yes, I feel unclean now.

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Well right from the off I thought we needed a second GK, but we shall see on sunday... The way refs have been treating us he''ll probably get sent off...

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There is too many and too easy given penalty''s in this league and I watching european football all the time never seen somthing like this !

Blackburn-Everton was given 3 penatlys all from them very dubios Mn Ut d penlaty also was very izi given by mr proper etc etc

We have very big game a head and I think is big gamble for us to stay only with Rudd for this vital game simply because chanse to be inj or red carded is not so slim.

Why we not recall Steer is np he to play Friday night and seat bench Sunday !

 

 

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Think a couple of points need clearing up here;

1) We would not be able to secure an emergency loan under the Premier League rules, because emergency loans aren''t allowed in the transfer window and because we still have one fit GK who can appear - if Ruddy was injured not suspended we would have a chance (as long as the injury to Ruddy had occurred outside of a transfer window)

 

2) If we call back Jed Steer I understand the loan rules mean we wouldn''t be allowed to send him back to Yeovil until January, the loan periods would be counted seperate by the Football League and Yeovil would lose two of their quota of loans for the season. Also recalling a player means returning any fee taken by Norwich City (not a lot I''m sure but worth noting)

 

I don''t think it is worth bringing back Jed just to sit on the bench and ultimately losing the chance to gain so real experience at being a first choice ''keeper at Yeovil. It will very much be a case of crossing our fingers and hoping nothing happens to Rudd during the game - or if it does that Remi Matthews is a star in the making. It is one game, I think the risk is worth taking.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Think a couple of points need clearing up here;

1) We would not be able to secure an emergency loan under the Premier League rules, because emergency loans aren''t allowed in the transfer window and because we still have one fit GK who can appear - if Ruddy was injured not suspended we would have a chance (as long as the injury to Ruddy had occurred outside of a transfer window)

 

2) If we call back Jed Steer I understand the loan rules mean we wouldn''t be allowed to send him back to Yeovil until January, the loan periods would be counted seperate by the Football League and Yeovil would lose two of their quota of loans for the season. Also recalling a player means returning any fee taken by Norwich City (not a lot I''m sure but worth noting)

 

I don''t think it is worth bringing back Jed just to sit on the bench and ultimately losing the chance to gain so real experience at being a first choice ''keeper at Yeovil. It will very much be a case of crossing our fingers and hoping nothing happens to Rudd during the game - or if it does that Remi Matthews is a star in the making. It is one game, I think the risk is worth taking.

[/quote]

An emergency loan would not be allowed but a free-agent GK would.

 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Think a couple of points need clearing up here;

1) We would not be able to secure an emergency loan under the Premier League rules, because emergency loans aren''t allowed in the transfer window and because we still have one fit GK who can appear - if Ruddy was injured not suspended we would have a chance (as long as the injury to Ruddy had occurred outside of a transfer window)

 

2) If we call back Jed Steer I understand the loan rules mean we wouldn''t be allowed to send him back to Yeovil until January, the loan periods would be counted seperate by the Football League and Yeovil would lose two of their quota of loans for the season. Also recalling a player means returning any fee taken by Norwich City (not a lot I''m sure but worth noting)

 

I don''t think it is worth bringing back Jed just to sit on the bench and ultimately losing the chance to gain so real experience at being a first choice ''keeper at Yeovil. It will very much be a case of crossing our fingers and hoping nothing happens to Rudd during the game - or if it does that Remi Matthews is a star in the making. It is one game, I think the risk is worth taking.

[/quote]

 

With respect, Bethnal, that is not the way I believe the rule gets interpreted, based on past cases. We would need two of our three to be injured rather than just one. If it was just Ruddy out injured (I''m talking here about from now on, outside the transfer window, rather than for this one-off game) then we could play Rudd and recall Steer. The fact that this would scupper us sending Steer back to Yeovil would be irrelevant as far as the Premier League was concerned. It would ask why we had insisted on an instant recall clause if we were not prepared to use it!

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Think a couple of points need clearing up here;

1) We would not be able to secure an emergency loan under the Premier League rules, because emergency loans aren''t allowed in the transfer window and because we still have one fit GK who can appear - if Ruddy was injured not suspended we would have a chance (as long as the injury to Ruddy had occurred outside of a transfer window)

 

2) If we call back Jed Steer I understand the loan rules mean we wouldn''t be allowed to send him back to Yeovil until January, the loan periods would be counted seperate by the Football League and Yeovil would lose two of their quota of loans for the season. Also recalling a player means returning any fee taken by Norwich City (not a lot I''m sure but worth noting)

 

I don''t think it is worth bringing back Jed just to sit on the bench and ultimately losing the chance to gain so real experience at being a first choice ''keeper at Yeovil. It will very much be a case of crossing our fingers and hoping nothing happens to Rudd during the game - or if it does that Remi Matthews is a star in the making. It is one game, I think the risk is worth taking.

[/quote]

 

With respect, Bethnal, that is not the way I believe the rule gets interpreted, based on past cases. We would need two of our three to be injured rather than just one. If it was just Ruddy out injured (I''m talking here about from now on, outside the transfer window, rather than for this one-off game) then we could play Rudd and recall Steer. The fact that this would scupper us sending Steer back to Yeovil would be irrelevant as far as the Premier League was concerned. It would ask why we had insisted on an instant recall clause if we were not prepared to use it!

[/quote]

You maybe right, the emergency loan rule is a bit ''flexible'' with the Premier League having the final say. I think it is down to whether Steer would be deemed to be a player ''of sufficient quality'' which is one of the considerations looked into when ruling on an emergency loan. It is all a bit unclear, even for the clubs.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

An emergency loan would not be allowed but a free-agent GK would.

 

[/quote]

 

Signing a free agent because of a one match suspension would be madness surely [^o)]

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="paul moy"]

An emergency loan would not be allowed but a free-agent GK would.

 

[/quote]

 

Signing a free agent because of a one match suspension would be madness surely [^o)]

[/quote]

I can see where you are coming from. But on the other hand we are potentially taking quite a serious gamble here which could cost us vital points in a winnable game. Rudd being good enough isnt the issue for me. I think he will do fine and clearly so does Lambert.

My major concern is what if he were to get injured or sent off. Then you are either left with Remi Matthews or an outfield player if he doesnt make the squad. Furthermore what happens if either Ruddy or Rudd get injured/suspended again this season? We have potentially got the same problem.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="paul moy"]

An emergency loan would not be allowed but a free-agent GK would.

 

[/quote]

 

Signing a free agent because of a one match suspension would be madness surely [^o)]

[/quote]

That depends whether you are happy with a vastly inexperienced Rudd standing in every time that Ruddy is out due to injury or suspension in a league where every point is vital if we want to stay up. I really don''t think that Ruddy will miss only one match in this very physically and mentally  demanding league.  I wish Rudd all the best but other clubs have strong experienced back-up for obvious reasons.  

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Think a couple of points need clearing up here;

1) We would not be able to secure an emergency loan under the Premier League rules, because emergency loans aren''t allowed in the transfer window and because we still have one fit GK who can appear - if Ruddy was injured not suspended we would have a chance (as long as the injury to Ruddy had occurred outside of a transfer window)

 

2) If we call back Jed Steer I understand the loan rules mean we wouldn''t be allowed to send him back to Yeovil until January, the loan periods would be counted seperate by the Football League and Yeovil would lose two of their quota of loans for the season. Also recalling a player means returning any fee taken by Norwich City (not a lot I''m sure but worth noting)

 

I don''t think it is worth bringing back Jed just to sit on the bench and ultimately losing the chance to gain so real experience at being a first choice ''keeper at Yeovil. It will very much be a case of crossing our fingers and hoping nothing happens to Rudd during the game - or if it does that Remi Matthews is a star in the making. It is one game, I think the risk is worth taking.

[/quote]

 

With respect, Bethnal, that is not the way I believe the rule gets interpreted, based on past cases. We would need two of our three to be injured rather than just one. If it was just Ruddy out injured (I''m talking here about from now on, outside the transfer window, rather than for this one-off game) then we could play Rudd and recall Steer. The fact that this would scupper us sending Steer back to Yeovil would be irrelevant as far as the Premier League was concerned. It would ask why we had insisted on an instant recall clause if we were not prepared to use it!

[/quote]

You maybe right, the emergency loan rule is a bit ''flexible'' with the Premier League having the final say. I think it is down to whether Steer would be deemed to be a player ''of sufficient quality'' which is one of the considerations looked into when ruling on an emergency loan. It is all a bit unclear, even for the clubs.

[/quote]

 

Indeed, but by not getting in anyone with more experience (which we could easily have done)  and going with only Ruddy, Rudd and Steer we are effectively saying we believe they are of sufficient quality. Lambert is on record as saying he regards Rudd as Premier League quality, and we are also saying we regard Steer (who is playing regularly for Yeovil) as being good enough to be on the bench in the Premier League and come on if need be.

 

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