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TIL 1010

Well Planned Norwich City.

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[quote user="Helsinki canary"]Well Tilly I am another of those effected by this huge stuff up by the club, also got the letter yesterday and and we put the "F" into Mr Casey and his team immediately we got the post. Imagine those that are on holiday when they get back and find they have no seat for the Stoke game....It transpires from the club that our beloved manager is to blame - after the experience of the two freindly games he was still not happy with the amount of room for all his technical and support sqaud in the new expanded premier league padded seat dug outs and he ordered that the whole row behind the home dugout be taken over for his clingons, away dugout not effected. Wonder if we will get our seats back when such a large team is no longer economically viable? shame on the club I shall be demanding compensation for next seasons ticket.[/quote]

I went down yesterday late in the afternoon and Danny Casey walked round with me to where the problem is and there appears to be the regulation number of seats under Premier league rules in the new expanded dugout which i think is eleven.Last season the subs sat on benches.However add on the kit man,physio and his assistant,doctor,water bottle thrower and the world and its Auntie which you see every week on the TV at ALL Premiership grounds it was obvious this was going to happen.What gets me is that somebody responsible down at Carrow Road i.e.the Stadium manager did not flag this situation up with Paul Lambert as soon as we were promoted.Seats were available in our area during movers and shakers i understand but hey guess what..those that wished to move got them but those that have had to move this week have been left high and dry.My mate and i are now in Row 1 seats 90/91 right at the front to the right of the dugout as opposed to Row B 101/102.Good seats but not if it rains and certainly not my No.1 choice.

 

 

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We got the 2 seats next to you then, there were 6 seats in a row - all went yesterday. Not sure about the view at that level and as you say will get pissed on in the wet weather. Freind of ours tried to get 2 seats there mid afternoon and they got shunted into the back area towards the riverend. The new dugouts meet the requirments but lambo wanted his rent boys around him..... as said the row behind the away dugout is not effected.

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Disgusted, just received a letter from the club, today, the day before the season starts, saying that as the home dug out has been expanded my season ticket seat is no longer.

Don''t worry it says, we will find you a seat elsewhere.

How long have the club known about this, why leave it so late, what ever happened to customer service?

 

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Thanks!! What makes it worse is that I received my season ticket for this seat 2 weeks ago, so in reality we have a contract in place?

The club offered me a ticket, I paid in full in December 2010, they issued a ticket and are now withdrawing this offer. To say I am upset is an under statement.

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Guys, I am in the same boat, got my letter today, it''s a complate disgrace, especially after we all received our season tickets a couple of weeks ago.

I think we need to stick together on this one as I for one feel like I have been treated in an apalling manner, it beggers belief.

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While I would be miffed in your position if you look at the bigger picture who is it more important to keep happy Lambert or 15 fans. It is a mess up but an innocent one. Are you perfect? Do you never make mistakes? There is not a lot they can so about the seats now but I do think they should compensate you somehow, such as a discount, some free box use or vouchers for the shop and first choice in the next movers and shakers.

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I used to frequent the club''s own message board.

In the days when Grant, Roeder and Gunn were spiralling us down the league tables a frequent complaint was that our executives were too soft, not ruthless enough. There seemed to be a feeling that we were a "nice" club, but that meant we weren''t a successful one.

McNally is clearly made of sterner stuff than Doncaster, or indeed just about anybody else who has ever held a full-time paid executive position at NCFC. But whilst I admire the way we now go about dealing with football related matters, I don''t understand why so many fans have been dealt with so badly.

The current regime''s attitude to fans shows in various ways.

Online booking fees for example for those buying casual tickets. (Some casual ticket buyers may be "fairweather" supporters, but most I imagine are exiles like myself who spend a fortune just travelling to a game).

There was the underhand way in which 60 - 65s were treated over concessions. Now apparently a heavy-handed approach has been taken with U21s.

The principle of changing the concession rate to 65 isn''t wrong; nor is the requirement for anyone claiming to be under 21 to prove it. But the way it was done was terrible.

In the first case taking away a concession to those who already had it was mean and petty (and earns the club no more than £250k a year - peanuts now we are Premiership bound).

In the second, the request should have been made from the outset of the application, not months later. There are so many little instances like this.

I guess in the past the SCG would have dealt with it. They were effectively a user group - much as software companies have such groups - and though not "democratically" representative of all fans they were a decent cross-section who were willing to ask awkward questions. They were scrapped too.

And of course the club''s message board has gone. There were, I know, some problems policing it. Some of the comments posted in the dark days leading to league one were frankly libellous of the club''s owners, and there''s clearly no logic in providing a facility to simply get yourself insulted.

But the real problem was that anyone could register, several times if they wished, and if banned reappear later with a new identity. The obvious answer - use individual''s club membership numbers as their login - was frequently suggested but never taken up. And so another way in which fans could make their views known was knocked on the head.

Success for NCFC is measured on the pitch; but I don''t see why "niceness" off it is thought to be mutually exclusive.

In my view you can still win leagues whilst treating everyone you meet - other clubs, officials, suppliers, the local community and above all your own fans - considerately.

Perhaps when MK Dons come calling in a week or so someone could introduce the architect of the club''s previously successful years of increasing the fan base and making us all feel wanted - Andrew Cullen - to the new regime. They could, I believe, learn a lot from him.

As things stand I''m not even convinced David McNally will find time to buy him a drink.

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[quote user="Absent Friend"]

I used to frequent the club''s own message board.

In the days when Grant, Roeder and Gunn were spiralling us down the league tables a frequent complaint was that our executives were too soft, not ruthless enough. There seemed to be a feeling that we were a "nice" club, but that meant we weren''t a successful one.

McNally is clearly made of sterner stuff than Doncaster, or indeed just about anybody else who has ever held a full-time paid executive position at NCFC. But whilst I admire the way we now go about dealing with football related matters, I don''t understand why so many fans have been dealt with so badly.

The current regime''s attitude to fans shows in various ways.

Online booking fees for example for those buying casual tickets. (Some casual ticket buyers may be "fairweather" supporters, but most I imagine are exiles like myself who spend a fortune just travelling to a game).

There was the underhand way in which 60 - 65s were treated over concessions. Now apparently a heavy-handed approach has been taken with U21s.

The principle of changing the concession rate to 65 isn''t wrong; nor is the requirement for anyone claiming to be under 21 to prove it. But the way it was done was terrible.

In the first case taking away a concession to those who already had it was mean and petty (and earns the club no more than £250k a year - peanuts now we are Premiership bound).

In the second, the request should have been made from the outset of the application, not months later. There are so many little instances like this.

I guess in the past the SCG would have dealt with it. They were effectively a user group - much as software companies have such groups - and though not "democratically" representative of all fans they were a decent cross-section who were willing to ask awkward questions. They were scrapped too.

And of course the club''s message board has gone. There were, I know, some problems policing it. Some of the comments posted in the dark days leading to league one were frankly libellous of the club''s owners, and there''s clearly no logic in providing a facility to simply get yourself insulted.

But the real problem was that anyone could register, several times if they wished, and if banned reappear later with a new identity. The obvious answer - use individual''s club membership numbers as their login - was frequently suggested but never taken up. And so another way in which fans could make their views known was knocked on the head.

Success for NCFC is measured on the pitch; but I don''t see why "niceness" off it is thought to be mutually exclusive.

In my view you can still win leagues whilst treating everyone you meet - other clubs, officials, suppliers, the local community and above all your own fans - considerately.

Perhaps when MK Dons come calling in a week or so someone could introduce the architect of the club''s previously successful years of increasing the fan base and making us all feel wanted - Andrew Cullen - to the new regime. They could, I believe, learn a lot from him.

As things stand I''m not even convinced David McNally will find time to buy him a drink.

[/quote]

 

---

 

Firstly, like others I criticised the club over this late relocation on the basis that it had been caused by the Premier League requirements to do with dugouts, and so the club should have acted accordingly in plenty of time. Helsinki, by contrast, is saying the problem was caused not by that but by a very recent Lambert request - that could not have been foreseen - for an even bigger dugout. If so - and it would be useful to know either way - then my criticism would be tempered. If the original assumption was correct, then the criticism stands.

 

As to Absent Friend''s post, so much to agree with, although I do think - and this is not the place for detail - that some of the non-technical problems with the official mesageboard were insuperable and terminal.

 

More generally, my own view is that the new executive management identified (with some but not total justification) softness as a weakness of the old regime and decided to show just how damned hard they were. Very early on Bowkett and McNally both used  "ruthless" to describe how they would operate.

 

Well, ruthlessnessness is fine if it''s efficient and competent ruthlessnessness. Otherwise it is counter-productive. As with the mishandling of the Colchester compensation case, which now hangs over us, certainly while this regime is in charge. Misbehave again and we will be tried as repeat offenders, with the threat of a much more severe penalty than the first time.

 

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You may be right that some of the old messageboard''s problems were insuperable - for technical reasons perhaps?  I wouldn''t know, partly because they never said that was the case.  They just decided to "review" it and in the end closed it quite abruptly.  Not even "it will close next Monday, post your final messages now if you wish".  That''s very typical, another little sign about how things are done now.

I hadn''t posted much in the later months partly due to illness (see my blog from last September re Chris Martin and how the other half lives) and partly due to many of the better posters also having gone awol.

(To answer your earlier question I posted as WS by the way.  I assume the LQ who thought my earlier post was crap is the same one I often agreed with on there.  How times change!)

Nice to converse with you again.  Don''t come on here very often as you''ll gather.

 

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[quote user="Absent Friend"]

You may be right that some of the old messageboard''s problems were insuperable - for technical reasons perhaps?  I wouldn''t know, partly because they never said that was the case.  They just decided to "review" it and in the end closed it quite abruptly.  Not even "it will close next Monday, post your final messages now if you wish".  That''s very typical, another little sign about how things are done now.

I hadn''t posted much in the later months partly due to illness (see my blog from last September re Chris Martin and how the other half lives) and partly due to many of the better posters also having gone awol.

(To answer your earlier question I posted as WS by the way.  I assume the LQ who thought my earlier post was crap is the same one I often agreed with on there.  How times change!)

Nice to converse with you again.  Don''t come on here very often as you''ll gather.

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

Absent Friend, likewise nice to converse. It wasn''t my question but as it happens I had rather thought you were WS on the official board. One of the sane posters, as I remember. This really isn''t the place but it was a hardcore of not so sane posters who killed that board (or gave the management a reason/excuse to kill it) rather than anything technical. Finally, I can''t remotely speak for LQ  but I think what she was describing as crap was not your post but the club''s mistreatment of John Tilson.

 

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It now seems that this was an unforseen developement which wasn''t obvious when the dugouts were first installed and it may not be as incompetent as it first appeared.

 

As for the bigger picture Absent Friend''s first post pretty much reflects how I feel. Posters on this messageboard refused to recognise the good things about the old Executive Management. They ridiculed the family club / community club ideals. They saw this as going hand in hand with the club sliding down the leagues. Now I guess the ruthlesness goes hand in hand with the club climbing up the leagues so the fans will take it on the chin. As I said earlier, while Paul Lambert and his team are "pulling up trees" the fans accept anything from the club.

 

Times are definitely changing off the pitch. I accept it may well be neccessary and McNally can certainly point to results as justification. But there is a part of me that is increasingly feeling that many of these changes could have been handled better.

 

 

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Hello Absent (Wandering), nice to see your views again. I don''t know your personal circumstances but hopefully you''ll have a bit of spare time, and we''ll see a few more of your contributions on here.

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[quote user="Absent Friend"]

.  I assume the LQ who thought my earlier post was crap is the same one I often agreed with on there.  How times change!)
[/quote]

You''ll be safe on here, she only makes a guest appearance ever so often to argue with Tilly [:)]

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Hi WS, or should I say AF?My comment certainly wasn''t directed at you - I didn''t even know your name was John! Add to that the fact that you were one of the very few posters I always held in great regard and even if we didn''t always agree, your posts were invariably worth spending the time to read.Anyway...Despite the fact that John Tilson and I have clashed on many occasions, what has happened to him (and those around him) is, at best, a massive customer services gaff.I''m interested in this theory that the new dug-out is to comply with Premier League regulations. If so why isn''t the away dug-out changing?Is it a regulation or a guideline?The photography pits we put in last time around were said to be regulations but were, in fact, guidelines. Luckily a player hasn''t broken a leg in those so far...

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This is a Customer Service disaster. I''ve had a run in with Customer Services before and I''m glad to here Richard Gough is no longer in charge as he was awful dealing with me. The reasons for why this has happened is now of little consequence to those fans effected. That should be an internal matter to be examined and dealt with to avoid repeats in the future. But Customer Services should be pulling out all the stops to make the effected fans happy. I think it would be reasonable to expect an unreserved apology, a partial refund for this years Season Ticket which should take into consideration any reduction in quality of the view and the happiness of each customer, maybe some club shop vouchers, and without doubt absolute guaranteed first choice of new seat during movers and shakers week for next season. They should also be notified if any other seats become available during this season. The club should be seen to be going out of their way to ensure these fans are happy with the outcome.

TIL - if you are not happy with your new seat location, you really ought to write to the club suggesting this and maybe do so in conjunction with other fans that you know have been effected. It sucks and I hope they make it up to you.

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I will see what the club have to offer tomorrow but I still find it shocking that my seat was paid for in full in December, arrived in July and then cancelled on Friday, so here I am, 6 days before the first game and still looking for a seat and as the game is sold out what choice of seats will I have?

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[quote user="Rupethebear"]I will see what the club have to offer tomorrow but I still find it shocking that my seat was paid for in full in December, arrived in July and then cancelled on Friday, so here I am, 6 days before the first game and still looking for a seat and as the game is sold out what choice of seats will I have?[/quote]

 

Choose one in the directors box - and demand it. I would.

 

Good luck.

 

OTBC

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[quote user="Rupethebear"]I will see what the club have to offer tomorrow but I still find it shocking that my seat was paid for in full in December, arrived in July and then cancelled on Friday, so here I am, 6 days before the first game and still looking for a seat and as the game is sold out what choice of seats will I have?[/quote]

 

Thats not acceptable and I would be furious if I had paid for a seat last Dec then found out in August I had to move.

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so you are saying you would have told Lambert he could not have his extra dugout seats?

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That''s the trouble, hide behind PL and then the club think they can treat us with distain. Think about this, take out the emotion, if this was any other business would you stand for it?

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