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Mungo Bumpkin

A shining example

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According to Archant''s latest bit of nothing to say/column filling guff, the team we should now aspire to be is Stoke - eleven seven foot neanderthals with one trained to throw the ball the length of the pitch. I liked it better when we aspired to be Charlton. Can''t we go back to trying to be Charlton?

Mungo

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[quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]

According to Archant''s latest bit of nothing to say/column filling guff, the team we should now aspire to be is Stoke - eleven seven foot neanderthals with one trained to throw the ball the length of the pitch. I liked it better when we aspired to be Charlton. Can''t we go back to trying to be Charlton?

Mungo

[/quote]

 

Not according to the Archant, but according to Ian Culverhouse (which is even more worrying).

 

I said before I would rather Norwich were in the Championship than play football like Stoke and I still believe that. It''s hard to call the way they play football in all honesty.

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But you could also interview the 15k extra fans that have suddenly materialised since Stoke have been in the premiership who are happy to watch that brand of football. To be fair they aren''t as bad as they used to be, they have some real quality in their team now, Pennant, Etherington, Jones & hate to say it but Walters, all good footballing players!

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An interesting point - you could argue that those extra 15 thousand are there simply to see the opposition not Stoke. If they wanted to see the Potters they could have watched them in the Championship. Of course, we have the same phenomenon at Carrot Rud. A huge demand for tickets from those who really just want to see the opposition.

Here''s the acid test - if you would rather watch Norwich v Liverpool than Norwich v Stockport then that really means you just want to watch Liverpool.

Mungo

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Cant we just aspire to be our own Model and set Norwich Citys stall out in the Premiership based on our own principles / ways of playing, why copy other teams, look where it got us with the Charlton Model!!!

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[quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]

An interesting point - you could argue that those extra 15 thousand are there simply to see the opposition not Stoke. If they wanted to see the Potters they could have watched them in the Championship. Of course, we have the same phenomenon at Carrot Rud. A huge demand for tickets from those who really just want to see the opposition.

Here''s the acid test - if you would rather watch Norwich v Liverpool than Norwich v Stockport then that really means you just want to watch Liverpool.

Mungo

[/quote]That''s why (just my personal opinion) I''ve never fully got my head around categorising games with different ticket prices.  I go to watch City play.  Of course, competing in the top league is fantastic, but for me the opposition really comes second.  If other fans get excited about seeing Arsenal Manure etc coming to play us, I''m not going to criticize that''s up to them.  If I had flu the day Arsenal came I''d feel more disappointed I missed a game, not missed Arsenal.It''s a good discussion topic imo.

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[quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]

 Of course, we have the same phenomenon at Carrot Rud. A huge demand for tickets from those who really just want to see the opposition.

[/quote]

Do you think that this can still happen though? The last time we were in the top flight it was easier to get tickets if you were not a ST holder. You could guarantee though that one in ten of those in the home stands would be opposition fans. With the rules tightened and  more home supporters I can''t see this being the case too much  nowadays.

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Would somebody actually watch how Stoke play? They''re actually a lot better side than people give them credit for...

Yes, they do have a few big men and yes they do throw the ball into the box at every opportunity but they also get it down and play some good football (and have good players!)

Even I can lump the ball in the box on a Sunday morning that doesn''t mean if I had 10 6 foot 5 brutes playing around me that my team would be good enough to beat Arsenal and Draw with Chelsea!

Anyway, pleased to get that off my chest, I''ll get my tin hat out now :-).

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I think they have gone about it like Bolton, although now they have hit a point where they can''t really go much further, as pretty much every club can''t, we are basically all challenging for 7th spot. I''d be interested to see a league not including them and then look at Stokes record vs the top teams.

For me, they would be lower down the league if it weren''t for the top 6, as they manage to ''Bully'' a few points from them. They are not better than us other 13 clubs, but credit to them for it to be honest, the Premiership is not won on how many maradona turns or rabonas you can do.

I think they hare midway through a kind of second phase of their plan anyway, where to move on from being some ugly team that just survives. Players like Pennant and Ethrington are real good footballers, like they tried with getting Tuncay.

Presume the end product of their plan will be an attractive self sufficient style of football that will get them a top half finish and a good cup run or 2 while they queue for a top 6 spot.

I think coming out of the championship, it''s hard to maintain attractive but effective football. We are definately coming out of there the hard way, but we have invested in pace and physical strength to help us succeed in the premiership.

Players like Holt, Barnett and Morison will be the key physically, where as Naughton, Martin, Tierney, Pilkington and Bennet will be for pace and stamina. The rest of the team can do the pretty stuff.

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[quote user="Grant the Cat"]Would somebody actually watch how Stoke play? They''re actually a lot better side than people give them credit for... Yes, they do have a few big men and yes they do throw the ball into the box at every opportunity but they also get it down and play some good football (and have good players!) Even I can lump the ball in the box on a Sunday morning that doesn''t mean if I had 10 6 foot 5 brutes playing around me that my team would be good enough to beat Arsenal and Draw with Chelsea! Anyway, pleased to get that off my chest, I''ll get my tin hat out now :-).[/quote]

I have seen Stoke live too many times already and have rarely ever seen them ''get it down and play'', one tactic which comes close is one of the wingers will run beyond a full back and cross it in (which is basically a long ball from a different direction). Any good passage of play they have is usually started with a long ball and then almost happens by accident. They have decent players, but are used in a way that needs no thought, just Pulis on the sideline screaming ''get it clear! Get it clear!'' Anyone sitting near the away dugout tomorrow is in for a sweary, shouty treat on Sunday.

 

It was even more frustrating when they were pumping long balls to Carew and had Tuncy sitting on the bench, a player with some actual craft and vision.

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so effing what, Stoke are now an established premiership club, that can look forward to European football and they got to a cup final.

I would love us to be like that in 3 years time and I don''t care how pretty or ugly the football is getting there, if you would rather watch pretty football in league 1 go and support Orient or Charlton

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If playing with a bit of flair and panache costs us a place in the over-priced corporate McPremier League, so be it. I''d rather see us playing in a competitive league like the Championship than ghe joke that is the Premier League any day.

Mungo

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"Here''s the acid test - if you would rather watch Norwich v Liverpool than Norwich v Stockport then that really means you just want to watch Liverpool."

Well I''m a true Norwich supporter - I only go when Norwich City play Norwich City

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think they have gone about it like Bolton, although now they have hit a point where they can''t really go much further, as pretty much every club can''t, we are basically all challenging for 7th spot. I''d be interested to see a league not including them and then look at Stokes record vs the top teams.

For me, they would be lower down the league if it weren''t for the top 6, as they manage to ''Bully'' a few points from them. They are not better than us other 13 clubs, but credit to them for it to be honest, the Premiership is not won on how many maradona turns or rabonas you can do.

I think they hare midway through a kind of second phase of their plan anyway, where to move on from being some ugly team that just survives. Players like Pennant and Ethrington are real good footballers, like they tried with getting Tuncay.

Presume the end product of their plan will be an attractive self sufficient style of football that will get them a top half finish and a good cup run or 2 while they queue for a top 6 spot.

I think coming out of the championship, it''s hard to maintain attractive but effective football. We are definately coming out of there the hard way, but we have invested in pace and physical strength to help us succeed in the premiership.

Players like Holt, Barnett and Morison will be the key physically, where as Naughton, Martin, Tierney, Pilkington and Bennet will be for pace and stamina. The rest of the team can do the pretty stuff.[/quote]I doubt anybody is claiming that Stoke are better than 13 teams in the league, you do realise that Stoke qualified for Europe because they reached the FA cup final and not because they finished 7th? They finished 13th.I think they deserve all credit though, they got to the FA cup final, it''s a knockout competition and there is no playing for 0-0 in those you have to score the goals which win you the games. They fully deserve a brief foray into Europe as a result, will do wonders for their coffers!

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Well you''re more likely to see a win vs Stockport, but i think for the sense of occasion, i''d rather watch us play esteemed opponents like Liverpool, makes me feel proud that i support them when they are playing the millions of pounds worth of talent of Liverpool and the like. I feel a bit embarrased saying to my mates, "got a 2-1 win away at Exeter this weekend, how did your team do?"

It''s nice to be noticed and it means that my mates and colleagues are interested in what i have to say, now that i have invested time in supporting a club like Norwich, we''re hot topic while we''re the newboys in the big league.

Let''s be honest, most people interested in football are only really interested in the Premier League, and it''s nice to be at the party.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think they have gone about it like Bolton, although now they have hit a point where they can''t really go much further, as pretty much every club can''t, we are basically all challenging for 7th spot. I''d be interested to see a league not including them and then look at Stokes record vs the top teams.

For me, they would be lower down the league if it weren''t for the top 6, as they manage to ''Bully'' a few points from them. They are not better than us other 13 clubs, but credit to them for it to be honest, the Premiership is not won on how many maradona turns or rabonas you can do.

I think they hare midway through a kind of second phase of their plan anyway, where to move on from being some ugly team that just survives. Players like Pennant and Ethrington are real good footballers, like they tried with getting Tuncay.

Presume the end product of their plan will be an attractive self sufficient style of football that will get them a top half finish and a good cup run or 2 while they queue for a top 6 spot.

I think coming out of the championship, it''s hard to maintain attractive but effective football. We are definately coming out of there the hard way, but we have invested in pace and physical strength to help us succeed in the premiership.

Players like Holt, Barnett and Morison will be the key physically, where as Naughton, Martin, Tierney, Pilkington and Bennet will be for pace and stamina. The rest of the team can do the pretty stuff.[/quote]I doubt anybody is claiming that Stoke are better than 13 teams in the league, you do realise that Stoke qualified for Europe because they reached the FA cup final and not because they finished 7th? They finished 13th.I think they deserve all credit though, they got to the FA cup final, it''s a knockout competition and there is no playing for 0-0 in those you have to score the goals which win you the games. They fully deserve a brief foray into Europe as a result, will do wonders for their coffers![/quote]

yeah, i got that, although i see how i confused you! I bet their form against these 13 clubs wasn''t much better than Wigans last season though.

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Man this thread higlights how dim some of you lot are... or at the very least a bizzare desire to under achieve.Now we all love the beautifull game, but do you really want to become the Arsenal of the Championship? Play wonderfull stuff and win nothing? Thats a losers mentality as far as im concerned and not one lambert would adhear to. Win the game. Win the game playing nice football. If that doesnt work win the game playing ugly. Win at any cost... even if some self rightouse plonker decides that actually they would rather not see as win if that means we arnt link 30 passes before we score each time. Stoke have a reputation and one pundits and opposition fans love to jump on.. but they are still in the top flight and now they have been FA cup finalists and are in Europe. Must have been just awfull for the stoke fans the last few seasons watching their team succed! I bet half the moaners on here feel blessed to have had the turmoil of norwich in the 08/09 season to get their teeth around.

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Mungo Bumpkin would rather be Charlton than Stoke!!!!!

 

Thats like saying I''d rather win £100 than £3M on the lottery!

 

We lost the chance of having Neil Warnock as manager cause someone on the board told him we don''t play your type of football here. Warnock replyed "whats that, winning football!"

 

Yes hes a prize t osser but Warnock would of very likely took us back to the Premiership!

 

This common asertion that Stokes style of football is bad is a load of ballocks!

Yes they rely on strength and height but they still mix this up with good football and every successful team plays to their strengths!

 

A good long throw is like a corner, most goals are scored within the penalty box so why not

 

For donkeys years one of Norwichs failings has been trying to walk the ball into the goal!

 

Stoke before getting promoted were a perrenial lower end Championship club playing in a stadium thy struggled to half fill. The fact they have surprisingly managed to establish themselves in the top flight by using a style of football that suits them best, shows they have done something right. - 

 

This is a role model I hope Norwich follow!

 

 

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

Mungo Bumpkin would rather be Charlton than Stoke!!!!!

 

Thats like saying I''d rather win £100 than £3M on the lottery!

 

We lost the chance of having Neil Warnock as manager cause someone on the board told him we don''t play your type of football here. Warnock replyed "whats that, winning football!"

 

Yes hes a prize t osser but Warnock would of very likely took us back to the Premiership!

 

This common asertion that Stokes style of football is bad is a load of ballocks!

Yes they rely on strength and height but they still mix this up with good football and every successful team plays to their strengths!

 

A good long throw is like a corner, most goals are scored within the penalty box so why not

 

For donkeys years one of Norwichs failings has been trying to walk the ball into the goal!

 

Stoke before getting promoted were a perrenial lower end Championship club playing in a stadium thy struggled to half fill. The fact they have surprisingly managed to establish themselves in the top flight by using a style of football that suits them best, shows they have done something right. - 

 

This is a role model I hope Norwich follow!

 

 

[/quote]While I agree with your sentiments, Stoke under Pulis have never played ''good football'' the only time they pass is to allow their strikers time to annoy the opposition defence for the impending aerial bombardment. Stoke do play to their strengths, big tall strikers who are good in the air, fast wingers who can accurately cross, a strong defensive unit and midfielders who,whilst lacking ability, will work hard to support defence and attack.By all means respect Stoke, respect their achievements and marvel at their level of success compared to the money they have spent, but do not lie to yourself or anyone else that Stoke play ''good football''. They play a long ball game bordering on hoof ball and are not afraid to enlist the so called ''dark arts'' of anti-football

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