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NCFC4LIFE

Stoke at Home

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After watching the analysis of the Stoke Chelsea game on Sky last night i feel if PL gets his tactics right we have a really good chance of picking up 3 points.Sky were showing the narrow defence of Stoke and how they dont really have any traditional right or left backs, they have a four centre backs, (Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate and Whitbread) Chelsea struggled on a very narrow pitch at the Britania Stadium to create any width and found it difficult to get in behind the wall that was created.On a bigger pitch (carrow road) i think a 4-4-2 formation will suit us better we need to play two wingers and get them to hug the touchline, this will force Huth and Whitbread who seem to play on the outside of the back four out wide, creating more room for our top two to cause trouble.                    RuddyNaughton De Laet Barnett Tierney Bennett   Fox    Croft      Pilkington             Holt     Morison 

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[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"]After watching the analysis of the Stoke Chelsea game on Sky last night i feel if PL gets his tactics right we have a really good chance of picking up 3 points.

Sky were showing the narrow defence of Stoke and how they dont really have any traditional right or left backs, they have a four centre backs, (Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate and Whitbread) Chelsea struggled on a very narrow pitch at the Britania Stadium to create any width and found it difficult to get in behind the wall that was created.

On a bigger pitch (carrow road) i think a 4-4-2 formation will suit us better we need to play two wingers and get them to hug the touchline, this will force Huth and Whitbread who seem to play on the outside of the back four out wide, creating more room for our top two to cause trouble.

                    Ruddy

Naughton De Laet Barnett Tierney

Bennett   Fox    Croft      Pilkington

             Holt     Morison
 

[/quote]

I might have missed something but who is Whitbread?

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It''s an interesting thought but I cannot see Hoolahan being dropped after how well he played on Saturday. I also think that by Pilkington''s own admission, he probably isn''t fit to play 90 minutes, especially against a side as robust as Stoke.

I think that the width will have to come from our full backs as I think the diamond formation will be kept.

I too think we have a good chance of three points. It''s a really good time to be playing Stoke IMO, given they had a really tough game on Saturday and face an away trip on Thursday in the Europa.

On a slightly different note, we have to get off to a better start at FCR than we did last year as there is just no way we can rely on supplementning our points from away games in the same fashion as last season. I don''t really think we were convincing at home all season which seems a strange thing to say given that we went up. I was far more confident with away matches.

My team for Stoke:

Ruddy, Martin, De Laet, Whitbread (if fit), Tierney, Fox, Croft, Bennett, Wessi, Holt, Morsion

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agreed on Hoolahan but just think we play to their strengths if we go down the middle, not just that little Wez might get hurt against those big oafs!!We will have to see, the point you make about the full backs is true if we play the diamond, Naughton surely has to come in?

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[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"]I meant Whelan.
[/quote]

I''m sorry but you really do need to sharpen up on your research. Whelan plays in centre midfield.

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Why not look at my point rather than looking at the name of a defender, Wilson, Whelan  whatever! This site is full of picky T*T''s who have nothing better to do than scan around looking to correct people.n*b

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[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"]After watching the analysis of the Stoke Chelsea game on Sky last night i feel if PL gets his tactics right we have a really good chance of picking up 3 points.

Sky were showing the narrow defence of Stoke and how they dont really have any traditional right or left backs, they have a four centre backs, (Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate and Whitbread) Chelsea struggled on a very narrow pitch at the Britania Stadium to create any width and found it difficult to get in behind the wall that was created.

On a bigger pitch (carrow road) i think a 4-4-2 formation will suit us better we need to play two wingers and get them to hug the touchline, this will force Huth and Whitbread who seem to play on the outside of the back four out wide, creating more room for our top two to cause trouble.

                    Ruddy

Naughton De Laet Barnett Tierney

Bennett   Fox    Croft      Pilkington

             Holt     Morison
 

[/quote]

---

 

The Stoke pitch is listed as being a yard longer and a yard wider than Carrow Road. 115 x 75 as against 114 v 74.

 

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Glad we''re back on topic.

 

Just a question Karlos, what''s the thought behind dropping Croft? Not having a go - I think that midfield looks very attractive - but think it might not offer our defence (which looked a touch unsure at Wigan) much defence.

 

Also, NCFC4LIFE also advocated Pilkington from the start, do you think he is ready for a full 90 or an hour at the least against Stoke? I''m not so sure.

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[quote user="Karlos"]Ruddy

Martin De Laet Barnett Naughton

Bennet fox Pilkington

Hooly

Holt Morison[/quote]

We would be lambs to the slaughter with that midfield. You would basically be playing five attack minded players. Sure Pilkington has strength but his main asset is ability to attack as is Bennet. They would be surrendering that and be forced to work with their weakneses in that formation.

Tactical suicide is how I would put it.

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As the original poster said, no natural full backs, so we could get bennet and pilkington to run at them and whip balls in. Counter attacking football will be our best bet against them

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I really think Pilkington is ready, in fact i think he is chomping at the bit. Reading his interviews he seems to think he is, and surely that the most important thing.Pilkington has played another 60 mins last night all be it a resy game, we need to start well at home on Sunday and i feel if he can give us a solid 60-65 mins that will be good enough. Him and Bennett offer us the width that we need to whip balls in for Holt and Morison.Croft or Johnson have to play if Fox plays as Fox is far too lightweigh in the middfield on his own, also Bennett without doubt knows his defensive duties and Pilkinfton use to play right back in his early playing days so can clearly defend.

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[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"]Why not look at my point rather than looking at the name of a defender, Wilson, Whelan  whatever! This site is full of picky T*T''s who have nothing better to do than scan around looking to correct people.

n*b
[/quote]

You attempted to make a serious point - fair enough. But you were factually incorrect which puts your theory in serious doubt from the start. They did not play four centre backs. Wilson, a left-footed full-back/midfielder played at left back. If you expect to name a non-existent player (Whitbread) or a central midfielder (Whelan) as centre backs without getting corrected, you will get a little bit of "pickiness". To the other poster who merely wrote "DEAN WHITEHEAD", he also plays in central midfield. Your argument would be, I guess, that Robert Huth will probably be playing at right back and may be vulnerable to attacks on the ground. Good point.

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The main point really was that their back four is made up of units, and they play a tight back four. I was saying that our wingers (if played) could potentially batter them!

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I think Gary Neville gave an excellent analysis of this point on MNF. Stoke were more than happy when they just had to defend the width of the penalty area. Which they would be with Huth and Wilson at full back. So playing the diamond may actually suit them because it is going to very congested in the area where Wes likes to play. But then again Wes is a pretty intelligent player and he does like drifting out towards that left wing so I think he could find a bit of space that way.

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It''s a tough one, because they really do just set themselves out to spoil the opposition and they are infuriatingly good at it (witness Chelsea game). The Guardian chalkboard facility (check that out if you haven''t yet) allows you to map all successful and unsuccessful passes in a game and this shows that stoke had very low numbers of passes overall and as many unsuccessful as successful. Their total was far far lower than either ourselves or Wigan in our opening game.  How do you exploit that? You can''t just pass your way around it because they sacrifice their own passing in order to make sure you don''t. I have to say i think the diamond will just get swallowed up unless Wes manages to work his magic inbetween their defence and midfield. I just wonder how much of the ball he''ll see. I tend to agree that pace on the wings and playing on the break to exploit their relative lack of mobility seems the most obvious tactic. Interesting to note they only won 3 away all last season however - Blackburn, Newcastle and WBA. Drew a lot though and aside from a 3-0 defeat at Manchester City, they never lost more heavily than 2-0.

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4-5-1 for me.

 

Ruddy

 

No reason to change Martin with Barnett De Leat and Tierney

 

Pack the midfield with Crofts, Fox and Johnson

 

Bennett and Pilkington on the wings

 

And although dropping Holt would be so hard, Morison had a blinder Saturday.

 

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GK:RuddyRB:R. Martin RCB: BarnettLCB: De Laet LB: TierneyRM: BennetRCM: CroftsLCM: FoxLM: Surman/Pilkington (If able to complete around 60 minutes)CAM: HoolahanST: HoltHopefully with the flat 4 midfielders the defense will get a bit more cover and Russel Martin and Tierney will still be able to overlap their respective midfielders. Crofts will act as a box to box midfielder pushing up to support Holt and Wes in the attack and dropping deep to help Fox. Fox will play his usual Regista role, the addition of two genuine wingers on the field will allow his fantastic diagonal passes be used more often. Bennet and Pilkington will try and get past the full backs (neither of which were genuine full backs in the last game) and in general use the full width of the pitch to spread the narrow Stoke defence. They should also switch wings and play as inverted wingers. Hoolahan will play his usual game, neat passing and tracking back when the ball is lost to give Norwich numerical superiority in the midfield. Holt will have to chase every lost cause and hassel a very physical and powerful stoke defence, if Norwich have not scored around the sixty minute mark bring on Morrison or Jackson to inject a bit more pace into the front line.Of course this is just my opinion.

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a horrible team to play against. i won`t offer any tactics as i don`t know your formation well enough. but , if they play at a ground that don`t offer towels to dry the ball for delap, watch out for his under the shirt,worn-on-the-chest, bar-towel sized towelling thing, at throw ins. i kid you not!.

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I think Hoolahan could be key.

Diamond is out best option i reckon, Pilkington and Bennett might do well, but we haven''t played much with wingers under Lambert, and although in friendlies and training thats been done, going out and doing it from the off against a team thats really hard to beat anyway, probably isn''t a good idea.

3 points on sunday, is a must i think. Because we have to assume that we will lost at Chelsea (anything there will be a huge bonus, and to realistically think we will get something from that game is silly, all we can hope for is Chelsea underestimate us, and we get a couple of quick goals early on/keep the game at 0-0 and get a late goal). I think Stoke could be a good game this sunday, i am quite worried, but Chelsea this past week, a game away thursday evening, with the second leg next week means Stoke have their eyes elsewhere. And if we play the diamond at its best, like we did at times last season, we can win. So i think we should (and think we will_ start off with the tried and trusted system, and if it doesn''t work, we have Pilkington/Bennett as options from the bench.

Also, maybe drop Holt?

He didn''t look quite himself last week, and after getting knocked about a bit against Stoke, i think his head drop a bit, and he will put in a similar performance, which is a shame, and i''m really hoping to be proven wrong. I would never normally suggest dropping Holt, but seriously he''s not going to be able to physically beat Stoke, and that could affect his overall performance/mentality.

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Hopefully Bennett will be on, I think as proved last Saturday, the best form of defence is attack and as soon as he came on, they wern''t just kicking the ball past us and running after it as they knew they wouldn''t beat Bennett. It meant a lot more square balls instead of running through us.

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Can''t see us dropping Wes to be honest. Can see the point being made but doubt he would place both out and out wingers in a 4-4-2 more likely to go with Surman & Bennett.Would also be surprised if both Holt & Morison didn''t start - you will need to help defend set pieces for a start! Also a reason to play Crofts & Surman who are a bit taller and quite useful in the air (particularly Croft).The other point of course is that the diamond is what has got us this far. Abandoning it now smacks of worrying more about the opponents game than our own. At home we should be looking more at what we do....

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[quote user="Steve 9-2"]Can''t see us dropping Wes to be honest. Can see the point being made but doubt he would place both out and out wingers in a 4-4-2 more likely to go with Surman & Bennett.Would also be surprised if both Holt & Morison didn''t start - you will need to help defend set pieces for a start! Also a reason to play Crofts & Surman who are a bit taller and quite useful in the air (particularly Croft).The other point of course is that the diamond is what has got us this far. Abandoning it now smacks of worrying more about the opponents game than our own. At home we should be looking more at what we do....[/quote]read it through again you might understand a second time... So you would start our most lightweight midfielder who is as about as good in the air as Darren Huckerby, Croft is one of the first names on the team sheet for me.If we went into everygame not worrying about how teams played we would get bashed 9-0 everytime. Its called tactics, and have the battle in the Prem is being able to adapt your team to change week in week out. Risking Wes against a team like Stoke were he wont be as affective seem silly, last 20-25 mins maybe.

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[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"]After watching the analysis of the Stoke Chelsea game on Sky last night i feel if PL gets his tactics right we have a really good chance of picking up 3 points.Sky were showing the narrow defence of Stoke and how they dont really have any traditional right or left backs, they have a four centre backs, (Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate and Whitbread) Chelsea struggled on a very narrow pitch at the Britania Stadium to create any width and found it difficult to get in behind the wall that was created.On a bigger pitch (carrow road) i think a 4-4-2 formation will suit us better we need to play two wingers and get them to hug the touchline, this will force Huth and Whitbread who seem to play on the outside of the back four out wide, creating more room for our top two to cause trouble.                    RuddyNaughton De Laet Barnett Tierney Bennett   Fox    Croft      Pilkington             Holt     Morison [/quote]I hate to say it but i told you so!: ) Very pleased that they played this formation looked very good formation and more importantly the squad now know they can play two different formations which is vital for us staying up.

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