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Baldyboy

Declan Rudd

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feel so sorry for the lad as he only gets games in the Cup it seems and then the rest of the team dont appear to give a toss!!!! He must be so frustrated!!!

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I don''t feel sorry for him, really.

 

If he really wants first team football then he should demand to go somewhere else and if he stays here then he needs to impress when he gets the chance and tonight he wasn''t particularly impressive.

 

 

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really? How many goals were down to him rather than Other players giving the ball away, seasoned pros like Whitbread and drury? the guy has had a handful of games not like those!!!

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[quote user="baldyboy"]really? How many goals were down to him rather than Other players giving the ball away, seasoned pros like Whitbread and drury? the guy has had a handful of games not like those!!!
[/quote]

I''d like to see the 2nd goal again. Looked fairly down the middle of the goal and he didn''t look anywhere near saving it.

 

My gut feeling is that Declan Rudd will not have what it takes to be a first choice goalkeeper for Norwich City on a regular basis - and I''m very rarely wrong about these things.

 

I''d be happy for him to prove me wrong though.

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I don''t see how he could have done much more tonight?  The people in front of him were dreadful!I think Joe Hart would have struggled paying behind that back four and midfield tonight.  I saw nothing wrong with Rudd''s performance.

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I agree Clint, how can you judge him on less than 10 appearances GJP? I would be interested to know what you base this opinion on, please enlighten me!!

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[quote user="baldyboy"]I agree Clint, how can you judge him on less than 10 appearances GJP? I would be interested to know what you base this opinion on, please enlighten me!!
[/quote]

Just a "feeling" you get with players. Sometimes you see a young player and you think this guy has got a shot but sometimes you don''t get that.

 

For example, a few years ago I said I thought Chris Martin could have a decent chance of making it but I didn''t ever see Michael Spillane doing the business for Norwich on a regular basis. Most people disagreed with me about Spillane.

 

At the moment, from what I''ve seen, Declan Rudd is more of a Spillane than he is a Martin.

 

Time will tell and I always hold my hands up if I''m wrong.

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That''s quite a damning assessment of Rudd GJP given most people''s low opinion (misguided in my view) of Martin on here!Just seen the goals on Sky, he had no chance with any of them.

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you reckon Martins made it do you? From what I have seen of him he has a lot further to go before he has made it in my opinion!! But then thats what it is all about, peoples opinions, and I am sure he is the player that divides City support more than any other!!I think you are judging Rudd too early, I bet you have been wrong on a number of occasions too havent you?

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GJP i''m sure you do get these things right, but why would a manager of a football team in the premiership say he is happy with his back up keeper, if he''s not good enough?

Very little Rudd could do tonight, defence was really poor and even if he could have done better on any of the goals, you really to be fair can just put that down to being under pressure because of poor defence, and lack of first team experience.

And to the person who suggested he demands to go out on loan to get first team experience, do you really think thats an option? He''s second choice keeper, very few teams will want a young inexperienced keeper in goal on loan anyway. And he can''t force his way into the team, because Ruddy is better at this stage. All he can hope, is maybe in the next year we sign another older experienced GK, so he can go out on loan for a couple of seasons.

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[quote user="baldyboy"]you reckon Martins made it do you? From what I have seen of him he has a lot further to go before he has made it in my opinion!! But then thats what it is all about, peoples opinions, and I am sure he is the player that divides City support more than any other!!

I think you are judging Rudd too early, I bet you have been wrong on a number of occasions too havent you?
[/quote]

I think Martin has still got something to prove but he''s come a lot further than Spillane has.

 

I am wrong sometimes and I''ll admit to it. But if you''ve read my posts on here over the years (and I''m not saying I expect you to have revised them or anything, lol) you''ll probably realise that I get quite a lot of stuff right - even though, at the time, the majority may disagree with me.

 

I expect plenty will dislike my feeling that Rudd isn''t going to be good enough. But I''ll stand by it and in a few years from now we''ll know if I was right or wrong to do so.

 

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]GJP i''m sure you do get these things right, but why would a manager of a football team in the premiership say he is happy with his back up keeper, if he''s not good enough?  [/quote]

Well that''s a tricky thing to comment on because it takes into account things like finances and player confidence and all sorts of other things.

 

I don''t think Declan Rudd is awful but I doubt anyone would want him in goal against Chelsea at the weekend.

 

I bet if John Ruddy was to pick up a bad injury now that was going to rule him out for a long time the manager would move to sign someone else to take his place in goal.

 

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I''m with BB on this, I felt sorry for Rudd tonight, he did nothing wrong and was let down by a useless defence.

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="baldyboy"]I agree Clint, how can you judge him on less than 10 appearances GJP? I would be interested to know what you base this opinion on, please enlighten me!![/quote]

Just a "feeling" you get with players. Sometimes you see a young player and you think this guy has got a shot but sometimes you don''t get that.

 

For example, a few years ago I said I thought Chris Martin could have a decent chance of making it but I didn''t ever see Michael Spillane doing the business for Norwich on a regular basis. Most people disagreed with me about Spillane.

 

At the moment, from what I''ve seen, Declan Rudd is more of a Spillane than he is a Martin.

 

Time will tell and I always hold my hands up if I''m wrong.

[/quote]I suspect that 95% of Norwich fans had a decent chance of making it when he came in the team and scored the goals, along with Huckerby, that saved us from relegation. You don''t need to have any kind of six sense to see that an 18 year old scoring goals and being rumoured to have scouts from Man Utd watching him has a "decent chance of making it".You are being a bit quick to judge Spillane though, he has only been at Brentford for a year, and at 22 years old and nearly 100 pro games under his belt already, he could still become a gem. He needs to pick his position and stick with it though. I see him as a right back, never a centre back.We have numerous players who were playing semi-pro at 22, including Holt, Hoolahan, and Morison. He was right to move, because 23 games is more than he would have got here in that year. The jury is still out on Martin, he has only really set the world alight in League One thus far. Spillane is playing in league one. As were most of our squad until recently, Tierney most recently, Spillane is further up the pyramid than Tierney was at 22. Martin is probably a decent Championship player, in a year or two Spillane could be too. We have seen it before with Ali Gibb and Paul Hayes, sometimes rejected kids work their way back up. Dion Dublin too, of course.

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I do feel sorry for Rudd. He hasn''t played a game for ages, then the one game he is finally in we lose 4-0. Hopefully it doesn''t affect him.

Michaela.x

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I actually thought Rudd did well for what he had to deal with. He needed a defence he could rely on - that never appeared! He should have gained confidence and experience from last night''s match but won''t have gained much at all! People forget how little he has played for us over the last 2 seasons, cut him a bit of slack, he''s not going to brilliant and at least he tried right through until the end unlike most of our team!

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="baldyboy"]I agree Clint, how can you judge him on less than 10 appearances GJP? I would be interested to know what you base this opinion on, please enlighten me!!
[/quote]

Just a "feeling" you get with players. Sometimes you see a young player and you think this guy has got a shot but sometimes you don''t get that.

 

For example, a few years ago I said I thought Chris Martin could have a decent chance of making it but I didn''t ever see Michael Spillane doing the business for Norwich on a regular basis. Most people disagreed with me about Spillane.

 

At the moment, from what I''ve seen, Declan Rudd is more of a Spillane than he is a Martin.

 

Time will tell and I always hold my hands up if I''m wrong.

[/quote]

I suspect that 95% of Norwich fans had a decent chance of making it when he came in the team and scored the goals, along with Huckerby, that saved us from relegation. You don''t need to have any kind of six sense to see that an 18 year old scoring goals and being rumoured to have scouts from Man Utd watching him has a "decent chance of making it".

You are being a bit quick to judge Spillane though, he has only been at Brentford for a year, and at 22 years old and nearly 100 pro games under his belt already, he could still become a gem. He needs to pick his position and stick with it though. I see him as a right back, never a centre back.

We have numerous players who were playing semi-pro at 22, including Holt, Hoolahan, and Morison. He was right to move, because 23 games is more than he would have got here in that year. The jury is still out on Martin, he has only really set the world alight in League One thus far. Spillane is playing in league one. As were most of our squad until recently, Tierney most recently, Spillane is further up the pyramid than Tierney was at 22.

Martin is probably a decent Championship player, in a year or two Spillane could be too. We have seen it before with Ali Gibb and Paul Hayes, sometimes rejected kids work their way back up. Dion Dublin too, of course.
[/quote]

 

I''d spoken well of Chris Martin before he played for the first team. I think there''s a difference between being good for your age group and being good in general/as a long term prospect.

 

I remember people used to rave about the Jarvis brothers and I used to watch them and think "really?!?"

 

Quite often people get carried away about the ability and potential of our academy products and they don''t like it if you tell them different.

 

Korey Smith is another one. I don''t particularly like to knock Korey cos that guy will give it his all but at the moment he looks a long way off being ready for the Premier League, even though I''ve known people on here to tip him to be a regular for us in the Prem this season.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="baldyboy"]I agree Clint, how can you judge him on less than 10 appearances GJP? I would be interested to know what you base this opinion on, please enlighten me!![/quote]

Just a "feeling" you get with players. Sometimes you see a young player and you think this guy has got a shot but sometimes you don''t get that.

 

For example, a few years ago I said I thought Chris Martin could have a decent chance of making it but I didn''t ever see Michael Spillane doing the business for Norwich on a regular basis. Most people disagreed with me about Spillane.

 

At the moment, from what I''ve seen, Declan Rudd is more of a Spillane than he is a Martin.

 

Time will tell and I always hold my hands up if I''m wrong.

[/quote]I suspect that 95% of Norwich fans had a decent chance of making it when he came in the team and scored the goals, along with Huckerby, that saved us from relegation. You don''t need to have any kind of six sense to see that an 18 year old scoring goals and being rumoured to have scouts from Man Utd watching him has a "decent chance of making it".You are being a bit quick to judge Spillane though, he has only been at Brentford for a year, and at 22 years old and nearly 100 pro games under his belt already, he could still become a gem. He needs to pick his position and stick with it though. I see him as a right back, never a centre back.We have numerous players who were playing semi-pro at 22, including Holt, Hoolahan, and Morison. He was right to move, because 23 games is more than he would have got here in that year. The jury is still out on Martin, he has only really set the world alight in League One thus far. Spillane is playing in league one. As were most of our squad until recently, Tierney most recently, Spillane is further up the pyramid than Tierney was at 22. Martin is probably a decent Championship player, in a year or two Spillane could be too. We have seen it before with Ali Gibb and Paul Hayes, sometimes rejected kids work their way back up. Dion Dublin too, of course. [/quote]

I''d spoken well of Chris Martin before he played for the first team. I think there''s a difference between being good for your age group and being good in general/as a long term prospect.

I remember people used to rave about the Jarvis brothers and I used to watch them and think "really?!?"

Quite often people get carried away about the ability and potential of our academy products and they don''t like it if you tell them different.

Korey Smith is another one. I don''t particularly like to knock Korey cos that guy will give it his all but at the moment he looks a long way off being ready for the Premier League, even though I''ve known people on here to tip him to be a regular for us in the Prem this season.

[/quote]I never saw much in the Jarvis brothers either, although I do think that Ryan Jarvis could have been a better player if he was packed out on loan a lot earlier, Worthington didn''t manage him too well.I''m a big fan of Korey Smith though, but if he isn''t in the first team plans then he needs to go out on loan with a recall clause. In fact Rudd needs that too, I''d like to see us sign a keeper to make that possible. Korey Smith is still only 20, people forget how young he is. I think hes a decent passer, a decent tackler, and has shown that he can score the odd goal. But a loan spell at some tinpot club getting 7000 fans a week with no money could do him some good. Hey, maybe we can wait until next year and loan them to Ipswich, they will be lucky to get any more than that in League One :P

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[quote user="LeJuge"]

I never saw much in the Jarvis brothers either, although I do think that Ryan Jarvis could have been a better player if he was packed out on loan a lot earlier, Worthington didn''t manage him too well.

[/quote]

It was nothing to do with how Worthy managed him. Do you not think that if Ryan Jarvis had enough about him as a player then Worthy would have looked to use him more or get more from him somehow?

 

Worthy was a good player in his day and he did great things for Norwich City as a manager, he knows his football and he''d have known if he had a real talent on his hands. I mean this is a guy who got Darren Huckerby playing for Norwich City - he''s no mug.

 

Looking back at Chris Martin a few years ago it was easy to see a young player who had a naturally good touch and had a clever football brain. It was never the same for Ryan Jarvis, he was probably good for his age group but his touch and awareness were never anything like as good as that of Martin. And he didn''t even have a turn of pace to make up for it.

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[quote user="baldyboy"]and tonite he has been named in the England Under 21 squad!!! not bad for someone that isn''t any good hey GJP?

[/quote]

As I''ve already said, I don''t think Declan Rudd is awful, I just don''t think he''ll make the grade for us in the long term.

 

Anyway, I would suggest they''re just having a look at him to see what he''s about because he is a young English ''keeper. It''s not as if he''s been playing in goal for us regularly and his performances have caught the eye.

 

But I hope he impresses for the U21''s and I hope he proves me wrong and does well for Norwich City, that''d be fine by me.

 

Now, why don''t we just wait a few years and see if I''m right or wrong??????????

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I can''t recall who said it, and it was a few years back and things could have changed, but some expert reckoned that Rudd could be good, but Steer is a much better prospect.

Rudd is still young and learning the game, but if he is on the bench week after week, and playing in an occasional reserve match, he is not going to learn very quickly.

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]I never saw much in the Jarvis brothers either, although I do think that Ryan Jarvis could have been a better player if he was packed out on loan a lot earlier, Worthington didn''t manage him too well.[/quote]

It was nothing to do with how Worthy managed him. Do you not think that if Ryan Jarvis had enough about him as a player then Worthy would have looked to use him more or get more from him somehow?

Worthy was a good player in his day and he did great things for Norwich City as a manager, he knows his football and he''d have known if he had a real talent on his hands. I mean this is a guy who got Darren Huckerby playing for Norwich City - he''s no mug.

Looking back at Chris Martin a few years ago it was easy to see a young player who had a naturally good touch and had a clever football brain. It was never the same for Ryan Jarvis, he was probably good for his age group but his touch and awareness were never anything like as good as that of Martin. And he didn''t even have a turn of pace to make up for it.

[/quote]I never claimed that Ryan Jarvis could have been a world beater, I am claiming that he could have been a better player if managed right. Worthington did not have a good record with kids, if he didn''t see anything in him then he wouldn''t have given him contracts. The only player that Worthington brought through successfully was Jason Shackell.Jarvis first came into the first team at 16 years old, and left Norwich at 22, having made just 75 competitive league appearances. That may sound a lot, until you consider that 31 of them were as substitute and most of his starts came on loan at 21...... five years after first appearing on the scene...  He had started (for all teams) just 7 league games before heading to Orient on loan at 21, 2 of those starts were for Colchester. His development would no doubt have been hampered by that. He only started 5 league games for us in 5 years, people forget that. He came off of the bench 24 times.Are you telling me that Jarvis wouldn''t have been a better player if he had spent a whole season out on loan at 18 or 19 like Chris Martin? That''s precisely why I want to see Rudd, and possibly Smith, out on loan. You don''t get better at football unless you are playing football. We don''t know the facts, maybe he didn''t push for a loan, but Worthington simply never put his kids out on loan. Jarvis only went out to Orient and Notts County when it was clear that he wasn''t going to make it, probably to try and get a deal somewhere. The best thing that Roeder did whilst here was send Martin and Spillane packing. Look at Lambert, he just wants to give his kids football. Steer will become a better player for his time at Yeovil, McDonald has no doubt progressed at Gillingham, Francomb went out to Barnet. I don''t just think that making sure kids get football is to benefit of the club that owns that player, it is in fact a duty and responsibility to that player. We have to ensure that we do the right thing by the kids. Even if it was clear that Jarvis wasn''t going to make it at Norwich, the club still owes it to help a player develop as much as possible whilst they are under the care of the club.  For me this is where Worthington seriously lacked. Not only in identifying talent from the youth team, but also in harnessing it. Dean Sinclair, Danny Crow, Ryan Jarvis, Ian Henderson...... none of them were sent out to play mans football for a year, so thus could never have been expected to do very well when thrown into the deep in a league like the Championship. Chris Martin would not be the player that he is now if he didn''t get those games at Luton, it came back with a better attitude, more confident, and realising what it is that he had to work hard for at Norwich. Because if he didn''t come back with that new attitude, he would probably be playing in the Blue Square Prem with the likes of Crow, no doubt about it. When you look at Jarvis and Crow, I''ve seen them both play recently, they look like they lack passion, don''t seem to ever bust a gut, and in the case of Crow looks seriously unfit. That could and probably would have been Martin if he had been given an easy 5 years picking up a pay cheque, not having to play and football, and not being made to realise what it is that he had to lose by not making the grade at Carrow Road. That''s why I think that Spillane did the right thing in moving too, because he knew that all he needed was time on the pitch, fair play to him. I reckon it is much more likely now that Spillane will have a long and rewarding career, in whatever league, as a result of that decision.Ian Henderson seems to be doing well now, that ones a bit different. May I ask, what did you think of Ian Henderson when you saw him? And what do you think about him now? Because by all accounts he is doing extremely well for Colchester, we didn''t see much of that whilst he was at Norwich did we?

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[quote user="Salopian"]I can''t recall who said it, and it was a few years back and things could have changed, but some expert reckoned that Rudd could be good, but Steer is a much better prospect.

Rudd is still young and learning the game, but if he is on the bench week after week, and playing in an occasional reserve match, he is not going to learn very quickly.[/quote]That was somebody at the club, I think it may even have been Bryan Gunn, or somebody here at the time. Whilst it looks like Steer is being groomed as the next famous City keeper, we still owe Rudd whatever is best for his development, so Rudd should be going out on loan too.

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Declan''s not a bad player, he should have just simply gone out on loan with Steer for a bit. Now Steer will come back with loads more experience than Rudd!!

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Bloody hell GJP, you have a high opinion of yourself dont ya, if you are that good you would be a scout or manager for a professional team.

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[quote user="Paul"]Bloody hell GJP, you have a high opinion of yourself dont ya, if you are that good you would be a scout or manager for a professional team.[/quote]

I''m not the one saying I know better than the professionals, am I?

 

Using the example of Ryan Jarvis, we''ve got someone here saying that they know/knew better than Nigel Worthington, that the lad should have been "managed" better.

 

Whereas my view on it was that I have faith that Nigel Worthington knew what he was doing and knew that he didn''t have a massive talent on his hands.

 

Similarly going back to Spillane, Lambert preferred and trusted Russell Martin ahead of him and since Spillane has moved to Brentford (a fairly small club in comparison to Norwich) he''s struggled to cement a place in the first team and has quite often struggled to make their day squad. Yet apparently the guy could be a real "gem".

 

Fans can sometimes get carried about the prospects of young players (especially "home grown" ones) and then perhaps it''s hard to admit that someone that they had rated was never as good as they had liked to believe.

 

 

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Paul"]Bloody hell GJP, you have a high opinion of yourself dont ya, if you are that good you would be a scout or manager for a professional team.[/quote]

I''m not the one saying I know better than the professionals, am I?

Using the example of Ryan Jarvis, we''ve got someone here saying that they know/knew better than Nigel Worthington, that the lad should have been "managed" better.

Whereas my view on it was that I have faith that Nigel Worthington knew what he was doing and knew that he didn''t have a massive talent on his hands.

Similarly going back to Spillane, Lambert preferred and trusted Russell Martin ahead of him and since Spillane has moved to Brentford (a fairly small club in comparison to Norwich) he''s struggled to cement a place in the first team and has quite often struggled to make their day squad. Yet apparently the guy could be a real "gem".

Fans can sometimes get carried about the prospects of young players (especially "home grown" ones) and then perhaps it''s hard to admit that someone that they had rated was never as good as they had liked to believe.

 [/quote]

Asides from the fact that you know damn well I wasn''t referring to Jarvis as a massive talent. Worthington was a good manager, but he had a very poor record with youngsters, that''s just the way that it is. Brentford are a decent team by the way, go and look at their first four results this season. Lambert didn''t ask Spillane to move by the way, he asked to leave. That''s why we played last season with one right back rather than two, remember? 

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