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Brighton Yellow

Everyone Should Sign This Petition

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Please everyone have a look and hopefully decide to sign this e-petition for the release full disclosure of all government documents relating to 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

This potentially has ramifications for everyone on here and how we experience the game.

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[quote user="Brighton Yellow"]Please everyone have a look and hopefully decide to sign this e-petition for the release full disclosure of all government documents relating to 1989 Hillsborough disaster. This potentially has ramifications for everyone on here and how we experience the game.[/quote]

 

Not to be controversial, but I wonder what knowing Thatchers thoughts on the Hillsborough disaster and how the Police made mistakes would affect how one would experience the game?

 

Its hardly a cover up to find out the Police were useless amongst other people on that day... Or are we assuming the Government had some hand in the mistakes?  Happy to be informed if I am missing something, just I think, just because MPs are elected, do I really need to see all the minutes that were taken of people''s views? 

 

Now if its a case of getting Police Reports that the government has then fair enough, but not everything needs to be made public, maybe intelligence information should be made public too and discussions that happen in that context just because we elected them as MPs and we have a right to know.

 

"specific content of the information in question would add to public knowledge and understanding about the reaction of various parties to that event, including the government of the day, in the early aftermath"

 

Sorry I just don''t agree with the Information Commissioner and he''s only an opinionated person like the rest of us and makes mistakes like the rest of us. Afterall he likes to fine Public organisation for breaches but has barely ever fined a private company. Wonder why that is. He thinks its fair to have this info yet won''t fine fairly. Even though private company after private company has lost our data and distributed it around without our permission.

 

I guess I just feel people are looking for some cover up that never existed. Its already been acknowledged in the inquiry that the Police were rubbish, but they wern''t rubbish on purpose so as to kill people, it was just a terrible day. If anything The Sun did more damage in my mind with the cruel lies and I haven''t bought another copy till this day in support.

 

I guess to sum up, to be able to get any non published police reports would be good, but I don''t believe in full disclosures in government necessarily unless someone can tell me what exactly we are after..?  I don''t believe in fishing trips and I don''t believe we have a right to know someones view on every subject.     *waits for the flaming*

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Prolly right the first time!

 

Afterall if he''s not happy with something you''ve done / not done then he''ll drag you about!

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My understanding is that the information is due to be released, as ordered.

So perhaps Brighton Yellow could tell us all what government documents have been withheld from full disclosure.

And what he or she understands is full disclosure.

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Aye, agreed, would be good.

 

Would be happy to sign if there was a convincing argument, but haven''t read a single one yet and can''t think of one myself.

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"I guess to sum up, to be able to get any non published police reports would be good, but I don''t believe in full disclosures in government necessarily unless someone can tell me what exactly we are after..? I don''t believe in fishing trips and I don''t believe we have a right to know someones view on every subject. "

You are assuming the police reports are based on facts and honest,perhaps the real reason for a fishing trip?.

Sorry but let it lie, you can never legislate for human error. We all f**k up some with greater consequences.

Learn and move on, which is what football has done.

H

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[quote user="haisbrohacker"]"I guess to sum up, to be able to get any non published police reports would be good, but I don''t believe in full disclosures in government necessarily unless someone can tell me what exactly we are after..? I don''t believe in fishing trips and I don''t believe we have a right to know someones view on every subject. " You are assuming the police reports are based on facts and honest,perhaps the real reason for a fishing trip?. Sorry but let it lie, you can never legislate for human error. We all f**k up some with greater consequences. Learn and move on, which is what football has done. H[/quote]

 

You obviously didn''t read my post, I don''t think I was advocating it really?

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Downloads,

Sorry for the confusion, it was not my intention to infer your support for the petition, but i guess i was reacting as well to other opinions made and included responses to them all in one reply.

H

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Is all good, i''m completely agree with your opinion that it should be ''let lie'' now. There is no cover ups, just unfortunate mistakes and tragic events.

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The Hillsborough tragedy has had such a momumental impact on the lives of so many people over the years. Many decisions were made and are still being made based upon the events that happened that terrible day. Besides the emotions involved of the many closely affected by the tragedy, I strongly believe that a full understanding of the events cannot be obtained until every last shred of evidence can be viewed by everyone. It is quite probable that we may not learn any more from the release of the information, however until we know for certain there will always remain a doubt.

The release is not to apportion further blame, as people suggest it is time to move on in that respect. It may help some quarters reach closure which is long overdue. I personally believe that it will help us all make better decisions that have the potential to impact upon us all as Football fans in the future.

Its a subject I have researched quite heavily in recent years and have always felt that the information should be in the public domain. In other incidents of a similar nature, information has been more readily available.

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For me the Taylor report was a good and bad thing!

The bad thing the all seater rule. The Taylor report says that the Hillsborough disaster wasn''t caused by people stnding yet we have to endure all seated stadiums when many would rather stand!

 

The good thing was that stadium facilities have improved no end but this could have been done with safe standing areas!

 

Hopefully the Government Bill later this year will see sense and allow safe standing areas!

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Brighton Yellow could tell us all what government documents are you asking to be disclosed - and how they differ from those that were ordered to be released by information commissioner Christopher Graham.

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Please lets learn from Germany!! The stadiums there are amazing and its through simple measures that could be implemented oh so easily. We could be in a situation in a couple of years where we expand Carrow Road and include standing areas, setting a model for the future!

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No one outside of the Government panel actually knows the extent of the documentation yet to be disclosed. The petition aims to ensure that all that exists be made available.

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Taken from Hillsborough Independent Panel – Terms Of Reference;

15. The independent panel will be responsible for producing a report on its work. The detailed content of the report will be a matter for the independent panel, but the government envisages that it will cover:

a) a description of the terms of reference and work of the panel;

b) an overview of the information reviewed by the panel and publicly disclosed;

c) an overview of the information provided to the independent panel on a closed basis, based on the summary description provided to the independent panel;

d) an overview of the withheld information, based on the summary description provided to the independent panel;

e) how the information disclosed adds to public understanding of the tragedy and its aftermath.

Confidentiality of closed information

17. Information that is provided to the independent panel on a closed basis shall remain confidential to members of the independent panel and the secretariat and shall not be made public. Members of the independent panel will be required to sign a confidentiality agreement regarding disclosure of that information.

A fresh review of the information does not in the current review necessaily mean that all available information is available to those outside of the panel.

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I don''t really see any problem and it appears that the petition is merely a ruse to over excite the not too bright into believing that this is yet one more evil deed/dark conspiracy in a long chain of wickedness inflicted on a group of put upon victims.

What is being witheld amounts to the thoughts of the then Tory cabinet AFTER the event and the thoughts of lay people AFTER the event. Even then it will most likely be made available to the panel.

As others have stated their thoughts amount to diddley squat in relation to what happened on the day and who was responsible for what.

Sadly, it will be no doubt yet another rallying point for those who believe there is a conspiracy in everything.

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Here is a link to todays Daily Mail with a relevant article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2027435/Liverpool-boss-Kenny-Dalglish-backs-latest-Hillsborough-campaign.html

Clearly those closer to the tragedy are driving this forward, perhaps releasing the information would bring closure for many people. A friend of mine though who is born and bred Scouser and still lives in Liverpool is fed up with the various groups surrounding Hillsborough and the Bulger case who can''t let go.

H

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[quote user="City1st"]I don''t really see any problem and it appears that the petition is merely a ruse to over excite the not too bright into believing that this is yet one more evil deed/dark conspiracy in a long chain of wickedness inflicted on a group of put upon victims.

What is being witheld amounts to the thoughts of the then Tory cabinet AFTER the event and the thoughts of lay people AFTER the event. Even then it will most likely be made available to the panel.

As others have stated their thoughts amount to diddley squat in relation to what happened on the day and who was responsible for what.

Sadly, it will be no doubt yet another rallying point for those who believe there is a conspiracy in everything.[/quote]By their words shall you know them.

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By reposting this, Chops, I think you have put your finger on the problem with this poster. He has his opinions, fine, but he insists on using a hectoring patronising tone to express them. This has the effect of both, offending others and, on the occasions he is proved wrong, of, let''s put this kindly, failing to cover himself in glory.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="City1st"]I don''t really see any problem and it appears that the petition is merely a ruse to over excite the not too bright into believing that this is yet one more evil deed/dark conspiracy in a long chain of wickedness inflicted on a group of put upon victims.

What is being witheld amounts to the thoughts of the then Tory cabinet AFTER the event and the thoughts of lay people AFTER the event. Even then it will most likely be made available to the panel.

As others have stated their thoughts amount to diddley squat in relation to what happened on the day and who was responsible for what.

Sadly, it will be no doubt yet another rallying point for those who believe there is a conspiracy in everything.[/quote]By their words shall you know them.[/quote]Are you a binner?[;)]

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[quote user="Downloads"]

[quote user="Brighton Yellow"]Please everyone have a look and hopefully decide to sign this e-petition for the release full disclosure of all government documents relating to 1989 Hillsborough disaster. This potentially has ramifications for everyone on here and how we experience the game.[/quote]

 

Not to be controversial, but I wonder what knowing Thatchers thoughts on the Hillsborough disaster and how the Police made mistakes would affect how one would experience the game?

 

Its hardly a cover up to find out the Police were useless amongst other people on that day... Or are we assuming the Government had some hand in the mistakes?  Happy to be informed if I am missing something, just I think, just because MPs are elected, do I really need to see all the minutes that were taken of people''s views? 

 

Now if its a case of getting Police Reports that the government has then fair enough, but not everything needs to be made public, maybe intelligence information should be made public too and discussions that happen in that context just because we elected them as MPs and we have a right to know.

 

"specific content of the information in question would add to public knowledge and understanding about the reaction of various parties to that event, including the government of the day, in the early aftermath"

 

Sorry I just don''t agree with the Information Commissioner and he''s only an opinionated person like the rest of us and makes mistakes like the rest of us. Afterall he likes to fine Public organisation for breaches but has barely ever fined a private company. Wonder why that is. He thinks its fair to have this info yet won''t fine fairly. Even though private company after private company has lost our data and distributed it around without our permission.

 

I guess I just feel people are looking for some cover up that never existed. Its already been acknowledged in the inquiry that the Police were rubbish, but they wern''t rubbish on purpose so as to kill people, it was just a terrible day. If anything The Sun did more damage in my mind with the cruel lies and I haven''t bought another copy till this day in support.

 

I guess to sum up, to be able to get any non published police reports would be good, but I don''t believe in full disclosures in government necessarily unless someone can tell me what exactly we are after..?  I don''t believe in fishing trips and I don''t believe we have a right to know someones view on every subject.     *waits for the flaming*

[/quote]

I agree with every word. The left wing will do all they can to try to bring Thatcher into this, just as they try to do with everything else. The fact is that the police made a mistake and tried a cover-up. They should have admitted their mistakes at the beginning as they were pretty clear to most people anyway.  Those that participated in the cover-up should be brought to book, but no way should we get involved in wasting yet more millions/billions of public money when we should be trying to save it after the mess the last lot left after 13 years of total economic mismanagement.

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people say oh police were rubbish that day but did not mean to hurt anyone, bxllxcks by their actions 96 died and heads should roll. If there is an industrial disaster people are accountable some even going to jail, do you believe they wanted to kill their workers, or passengers as in potters bar train crash, no but caused the deaths,

caused by people not doing their jobs properly same as police at Hillsborough. They did not do their job and tried to cover up the fact, Remember the report says up to 41 people might have been saved.

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Perhaps their jobs, and everyone elses, might have been a little easier if hordes of well-oiled ticketless loveable scouses rouges hadn''t turned up and created havoc at an all ticket football match?

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