NCISA AGM

[Leedscanary 337]

Excellent post Nutty, thank you for taking the time to post your views. I really think that there are some great suggestions coming from this thread now.Obviously, with any organisation any suggestions put to either the committee or voted for by members would go with the majority rule ie 51% of votes for any sugestion to go through.Who knows, god forbid if things turn sour and a Lambert out campaign started - what would the NCISA role be? Well, it would be up to the members to canvass the committee into collating a vote of the membership, then issuing a statement such like based on the results. Heck, it could even be worded "71% of NCISA members believe he should go" - if you don''t agree with it, fine. There will always be people in groups who disagree with each other some of the time. But why should this effect your enjoyment of the rest of the things that go hand in hand with membership? There will never be a group where everyone agrees with everyone else. But you will have a say. Imagine a scenario where NCISA did issue an objective you don''t agree with - if you had have been a member you would have had a chance to sway the vote - instead of looking in from afar.

[Crafty Canary 495]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So then you had ncisa members and some committee members deciding they know best. You had Crafty writing blogs on the ncisa site pretending he knew better thyan Delia. In fact Crafty would support an uprising in the streets to hound her out.

There''s not many people in the country, let alone ncisa members, who know more about running a football club than Neil Doncaster.

 Norwich City Football Club is answerable to its''s shareholders and customers. They then have to explain themselves to the shareholders at the annual AGM. The press will also reflect the fans and make things uncomfortable.

[/quote]No, I have never written that I know better than Delia. I have written that I believe she is not competent at running a football club and all the evidence since she appointed people who do would seem to support my view. Yet more make believe from Nutty.Yes i wanted her out, was I alone in that view? Err, no. Never mind Nutty bestter luck next time. So Neil Doncaster knows better than most? Why then did you blamed him (and Roger Mumby) for the club''s demise to League One? To avoid having to criticise the people who appointed him.of course. Try to be consistent!So NCFC is answerable to its shareholders and customers. I agree and as both a shareholder and customer I reserve the right to criticise. Interesting that this is a right you wish to deny me. Again, how about some consitency?I take it that at the AGM you will not offer any opinions as you are not a member of NCISA and hold it in such contempt.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

Beauseant must be tearing his hair out....

Anyway, that last post was certainly funnier than your "joke" Crafty.

Just take a step back and read through what you have written. Was I the only one? Err, no...... Must be right then.

I didn''t say I knew better than her just that she was incompetent....? Eh? No solutions then, just an anyone MUST be better than her attitude.

I pity your students.

[Ruddygore 0]

Just a simplistic view but whatever NCISA becomes with its new name and mission statement, a new chairman and maybe making a judgement about whether the past is the past surely you join an organisation which shares your views, a committee and chairman that support that ethos? If it don''t then you either vote out that committee or stop paying your subs - you don''t carp on endlessly from the sidelines if you ain''t a joiner, points made Nutty, and made over and over again, move on or change it.

I''ve seen nothing that I disagree with in the way Beausant has gone about NCISA''s business on here and even I am mulling over joining.

There is nothing wrong with a transparent and fully open independent supporters organisation that shares and supports the aims of their club but also seeks to improve their members experience.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

The change in name is less important than the change in attitude. Beauseant has, with help, set out a plan that will see NCISA or whatever it ends up, still serving some relevance. I just hope that some of the Dinosaurs who retain membership do not undermine the evolution of the group.

[Ruddygore 0]

I''m sure you are right Duncan however a bit of re-branding doesn''t seem as if it would hurt.

[Desert Fox 0]

Duncan,

 

Can I ask if you are a member of NCISA or not?

 

If you are, I assume you will make your views known. As your intimating that Beauseant has had ''help'' and that you are aware of this, I am assuming that you are connected with the committee.

 

If not, why are you so bothered?

 

If the view of the Dinosaurs (as you put it) previals through a majority vote, will you respect this decision as an expression of free will?

 

At present, I am personally opposed to losing our independence (not sure if that makes me a Dinosaur), but I will resepct the views of the majority if this is voted against. However, as the AGM motions have not even been issued yet, I simply cant decide how I will actually vote until I have seen the presented arguments for and against and will retain an open mind.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

You can ask what you like Foxy.

I''m not a member of NCISA at present. I reckon that could change very soon though, would you suggest that I should sign up for something blindly or be sure of their direction for the future before committing to it?

Now, if I want to pass comment on something that''s being discussed here, on a Norwich City message board, I will. If you want it to be a closed shop for members only, discuss it on your own site or PM fellow members, it''s open season on here.

Anyway, whatever happens, I''m far more likely to join NCISA now than I was not so long ago.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="1eed5canary"]Excellent post Nutty, thank you for taking the time to post your views. I really think that there are some great suggestions coming from this thread now.Obviously, with any organisation any suggestions put to either the committee or voted for by members would go with the majority rule ie 51% of votes for any sugestion to go through.Who knows, god forbid if things turn sour and a Lambert out campaign started - what would the NCISA role be? Well, it would be up to the members to canvass the committee into collating a vote of the membership, then issuing a statement such like based on the results. Heck, it could even be worded "71% of NCISA members believe he should go" - if you don''t agree with it, fine. There will always be people in groups who disagree with each other some of the time. But why should this effect your enjoyment of the rest of the things that go hand in hand with membership? There will never be a group where everyone agrees with everyone else. But you will have a say. Imagine a scenario where NCISA did issue an objective you don''t agree with - if you had have been a member you would have had a chance to sway the vote - instead of looking in from afar.[/quote]I hope that this is the case these days Kev, because I certainly have my doubts about this being the case throughout NCISA''s history.I''m not going to go in to my reasoning behind my thoughts on that, as unlike some I like to leave the past in the past.  Going forwards however, I hope that if NCISA chooses to canvass it''s members ever, that it is far more open about publishing the exact results they have received in a timely manner.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="crafty canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So then you had ncisa members and some committee members deciding they know best. You had Crafty writing blogs on the ncisa site pretending he knew better thyan Delia. In fact Crafty would support an uprising in the streets to hound her out.

There''s not many people in the country, let alone ncisa members, who know more about running a football club than Neil Doncaster.

 Norwich City Football Club is answerable to its''s shareholders and customers. They then have to explain themselves to the shareholders at the annual AGM. The press will also reflect the fans and make things uncomfortable.

[/quote]No, I have never written that I know better than Delia. I have written that I believe she is not competent at running a football club and all the evidence since she appointed people who do would seem to support my view. Yet more make believe from Nutty.Yes i wanted her out, was I alone in that view? Err, no. Never mind Nutty bestter luck next time. So Neil Doncaster knows better than most? Why then did you blamed him (and Roger Mumby) for the club''s demise to League One? To avoid having to criticise the people who appointed him.of course. Try to be consistent!So NCFC is answerable to its shareholders and customers. I agree and as both a shareholder and customer I reserve the right to criticise. Interesting that this is a right you wish to deny me. Again, how about some consitency?I take it that at the AGM you will not offer any opinions as you are not a member of NCISA and hold it in such contempt.

[/quote]Whoops, tricky questions Crafty.I''m looking forwards to watching Nutty''s Googly of a response on this one [:)]

[Crafty Canary 495]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]Beauseant must be tearing his hair out....

Anyway, that last post was certainly funnier than your "joke" Crafty.

Just take a step back and read through what you have written. Was I the only one? Err, no...... Must be right then.

I didn''t say I knew better than her just that she was incompetent....? Eh? No solutions then, just an anyone MUST be better than her attitude.

I pity your students.[/quote]An irrelevant and vacuous response from an irrelevant and vacuous poster. I didn''t have to provide solutions as that''s the board''s job. If you have nothing reasoned to put forward in response why bother? Nothing between the ears so nothing to put on paper. Continue to make it up. 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]You can ask what you like Foxy.

I''m not a member of NCISA at present. I reckon that could change very soon though, would you suggest that I should sign up for something blindly or be sure of their direction for the future before committing to it?

Now, if I want to pass comment on something that''s being discussed here, on a Norwich City message board, I will. If you want it to be a closed shop for members only, discuss it on your own site or PM fellow members, it''s open season on here.

Anyway, whatever happens, I''m far more likely to join NCISA now than I was not so long ago.[/quote]You can''t discuss it on the NCISA Website though Duncan, because it has no facility for members (or anybody else that matter) to post anything whatsoever on there (other than Question''s to Aunty Marge and I assume that they go through some kind of warped vetting procedure first).Of course the wonderful New Website that we were promised by last years FLAVOUR OF THE MONTH (The Butler), still offers only limited capability.  Look at the thanks he got from some of his fellow committee members for putting his time in and coming up with new ideas! [:S]Far too many people on the Committee have always been of the nature of giving the opinion which they believe that the vast majority of City fans want to hear, rather than their own opinion.  Therefore like Nutty points out, they have always been far to slow to react to anything that the majority of fans want, because as we all know things can change very quickly indeed when it comes to football.Like Desert Fox, I am merely a member who is happy to go with the flow of what the membership votes for at any one particular time.  But I know for a fact that the committee have been less than honourable with the information they have received in the past when putting things out to a public vote and at other times have only given you limited options to vote on.So for me NCISA has never been a fully democratic organisation (as it likes to make out).  I hope this changes in the future, but until NCISA has a Chairman and full committee who are prepared to put any sensible suggestions made by members to a fair and public vote (that we receive timely and full results on) then it is not likely to change for the better in my opinion.I hope that Beau and his merry team are the brave ones to put this out to a proper vote and have no idea what the results of it would be.  It will take a brave person to turn NCISA in to an organisation which is seen to be far more democratic.  Good Luck to Rob & Co if that is what they set out to try and achieve.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

The boards job to find the solution to the majority shareholders being incompetent? All you knew was that they had to go.... Oh no, not they, SHE.

She is still there you pathetic, illiterate, loquacious chap....

As for me being devoid of matter between the ears....I''d take the pepsi challenge with you in an instant my old fruit...

[Crafty Canary 495]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]The boards job to find the solution to the majority shareholders being incompetent? All you knew was that they had to go.... Oh no, not they, SHE.

She is still there you pathetic, illiterate, loquacious chap....

As for me being devoid of matter between the ears....I''d take the pepsi challenge with you in an instant my old fruit...[/quote]Oh, have we been using the dictionary? Loquacious - very good. Unfortunately message boards are about writing and not talking so wrong adjective old boy. Still you are just the potman.....

[Duncan Edwards 0]

You''ve got nothing to say but keep on saying it too loudly so I think it fits just fine. You never answer anything directed at you, just skirt round it and throw insults and try and belittle people!!

Can you pour a pint????

[Crafty Canary 495]

Wrong adjective but having a small intellect you just can''t bring yourself to admit it. Anyone who reads my posts can plainly see I answer issues head on. Now can I pull a pint? Yes. Do I need to pull a pint? No as there are people who do it for me so I don''t have to do the menial jobs. With people like you I don''t try to belittle you, you do such a wonderful job of that yourself trying to be clever and score points without the intellect to achieve either.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

Well, you spout utter bullocks, be it from the pen, keyboard or that oversized gob of yours. Lest we forget that I''ve also heard you talking the aforementioned first hand in the very establishment you keep bringing up. Therefore, if I choose to describe you as loquacious, I''m perfectly entitled.

Now, you keep questioning my intellect, juvenile but predictable, after all, you spend your professional life surrounded by kids, a bit like a catholic priest would.

I have always chosen to spend my time with adults, professionally and otherwise.

Come and take the pepsi challenge, let''s see what happens.....I won''t roll over and let you have your own way for a werthers original and a pat on the head.

Where do you work anyway? Is your school thpethul, can''t imagine you''d get the gig otherwise.....

[Desert Fox 0]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]You can ask what you like Foxy. I''m not a member of NCISA at present. I reckon that could change very soon though, would you suggest that I should sign up for something blindly or be sure of their direction for the future before committing to it? Now, if I want to pass comment on something that''s being discussed here, on a Norwich City message board, I will. If you want it to be a closed shop for members only, discuss it on your own site or PM fellow members, it''s open season on here. Anyway, whatever happens, I''m far more likely to join NCISA now than I was not so long ago.[/quote]

 

Duncan,

 

I have no problem with you airing your views - after this is a public discussion forum.

 

However, I am intrigued as to why you are so bothered how the members of an organisation to which you do not belong govern themselves. For example, as a non-member, I have no interest in how the Bayer Social Club is run and would not comment upon it even if it became the subject of a discussion on a public forum. I certainly woudlnt be telling the members how it should be run, although Ido recognise that anybody has teh right to do this.

 

Your reference to Beuaseant being ''helped'' and the deep interest of Nutty Nigel and yourself in the internal affairs of NCISA has the feeling like of some sort of coup to me (" could chnange very soon" in your own words) - particularry as you seen to be closer to what is going on than most NCISA members.

 

So whats the agenda Duncan?

 

[Ruddygore 0]

In your efforts to maul each other into submission you can manage to be extremely offensive to others.

[Desert Fox 0]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]The change in name is less important than the change in attitude. Beauseant has, with help, set out a plan that will see NCISA or whatever it ends up, still serving some relevance. I just hope that some of the Dinosaurs who retain membership do not undermine the evolution of the group.[/quote]

Beauseant,

 

I am interested in your comments as to what ''help'' you have had from the likes of Duncan et al and why your plans are being shared with people who are non-members of NCISA and who patently hold the organisatuion in deep content, whilst us mere fee paying members are kept in teh dark other than snippets leaked on this forum.

 

Up until now I think you have come across as being sensible and pragmatic, but I am now beginning to smell a rat given the way that posters opposed to NCISA are proliferating this thread, with apparent confidence that significant chnages to the organsiation are going to happen. Therefore, can you confirm whether the "plan" (as Duncan has put it) includes:

 

(a) stop being independent - implying alignment with the club

 

(b) turn NCISA into a social club

 

(c) anything else that may entail significant chnage??

 

Can the membership expect the committee''s written recomemndations as to why change is necessary as part of the AGM motions, as otherwise how are members voting by proxy going to be able to exercise any judgement?

[Desert Fox 0]

I Say It''s Ruddy Wizard,

 

I thought that this was a discussion forum and not a school playground!!

 

Have I been offensive or not offensive enough?????

[Ruddygore 0]

I was not directing my comment towards you Mr Desert Fox and yes, I too thought this was a discussion forum.

The quote feature does not work for me and your post came between mine and Duncan Edwards'' latest "playground" retort.

[Desert Fox 0]

I Say It''s Ruddy Wizard,

 

Fair play. It is tiring when a debate about quite a significant issue (change in direction of NCISA) is brought down to the level of insults being traded in the kindergarten.

 

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]You can ask what you like Foxy. I''m not a member of NCISA at present. I reckon that could change very soon though, would you suggest that I should sign up for something blindly or be sure of their direction for the future before committing to it? Now, if I want to pass comment on something that''s being discussed here, on a Norwich City message board, I will. If you want it to be a closed shop for members only, discuss it on your own site or PM fellow members, it''s open season on here. Anyway, whatever happens, I''m far more likely to join NCISA now than I was not so long ago.[/quote]

 

Duncan,

 

I have no problem with you airing your views - after this is a public discussion forum.

 

However, I am intrigued as to why you are so bothered how the members of an organisation to which you do not belong govern themselves. For example, as a non-member, I have no interest in how the Bayer Social Club is run and would not comment upon it even if it became the subject of a discussion on a public forum. I certainly woudlnt be telling the members how it should be run, although Ido recognise that anybody has teh right to do this.

 

Your reference to Beuaseant being ''helped'' and the deep interest of Nutty Nigel and yourself in the internal affairs of NCISA has the feeling like of some sort of coup to me (" could chnange very soon" in your own words) - particularry as you seen to be closer to what is going on than most NCISA members.

 

So whats the agenda Duncan?

 

[/quote]

 

Ha! Deary me, 2+2=743

 

I expect Bush bombed the Twin Towers and Prince Phillip was driving the little white car in the Paris underpass too....

 

Sorry, I''m being flippant. There is no agenda on my part or anyone elses to my knowledge. The "help" that I refer to would come from the supporting committee, not me. I am just aware, that the group is trying to evolve and attract new membership. I''m certainly not "closer" to what is happening than you other than perhaps geographically.

 

I''m not sure how you came up with this idea of a coup, perhaps someone has fed you some duff information or perhaps it is a simple case of misinterpretation.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

I Say It''s Ruddy Wizard,

 

Fair play. It is tiring when a debate about quite a significant issue (change in direction of NCISA) is brought down to the level of insults being traded in the kindergarten.

 

[/quote]

 

Especially when it is dragged down there by a fully paid up member like Crafty, eh?

[Crafty Canary 495]

Ah, Mr Innocent now. The alcohol fumes must have addled your memory.Pepsi challenge and Worthers Originals. What was that about being juvenile?

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="crafty canary"]Ah, Mr Innocent now. The alcohol fumes must have addled your memory.

Pepsi challenge and Worthers Originals. What was that about being juvenile?
[/quote]

Oh, I''m not protesting my innocence. If you want to trade insults with me, I''ll go toe to toe with you all day. So where do you teach?

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]The change in name is less important than the change in attitude. Beauseant has, with help, set out a plan that will see NCISA or whatever it ends up, still serving some relevance. I just hope that some of the Dinosaurs who retain membership do not undermine the evolution of the group.[/quote]

Beauseant,

 

I am interested in your comments as to what ''help'' you have had from the likes of Duncan et al and why your plans are being shared with people who are non-members of NCISA and who patently hold the organisatuion in deep content, whilst us mere fee paying members are kept in teh dark other than snippets leaked on this forum.

 

Up until now I think you have come across as being sensible and pragmatic, but I am now beginning to smell a rat given the way that posters opposed to NCISA are proliferating this thread, with apparent confidence that significant chnages to the organsiation are going to happen. Therefore, can you confirm whether the "plan" (as Duncan has put it) includes:

 

(a) stop being independent - implying alignment with the club

 

(b) turn NCISA into a social club

 

(c) anything else that may entail significant chnage??

 

Can the membership expect the committee''s written recomemndations as to why change is necessary as part of the AGM motions, as otherwise how are members voting by proxy going to be able to exercise any judgement?

[/quote]

 

I thought we might finally reach the point where, instead of tilting at self created windmills, someone might take me up on my offer, pages back, of answering any questions. It seems that people have stewed themselves up into a bit of a frenzy without bothering too much about establishing the facts, so, here they are;

1. We are in a different world to the one in which NCISA was formed. Not only is the club on a playing high, but the way in which it is run is highly professional and businesslike. One of the result''s of this is that the days when the Chairman of NCISA could ring the Chief Executive for a nice chat are long gone. I exchange emails with David NcNally and we had a very useful meeting a few weeks ago, but the prospect of NCISA (or any of the other supporters groups) having a significant influence on club policy at the moment is less than zero. There is a feelgood factor which will, hopefully, last for some time and, just as the club has re-engineered itself, so must NCISA, unless it wishes to become a complete anachronism. We are all here because we are fans of Norwich City Football Club. There are many fans out there who would like to feel part of a community and we can accomodate that by offering exceptional value for money. Just £5 a year gives our members entry to a free monthly draw for match tickets, Yellows vouchers, signed books etc, free entry to our ex player forums and any discounts or access to other  supporters clubs that we can negotiate, plus the chance of feeling part of a group with one great passion in common.

2. No-one on the committee has ever suggested that we would cease to be independent. There is a bit of a clue to this in the proposed name of INDEPENDENT Norwich City Supporters Club. I am sure that the club will, at some point, set up some sort of direct supporters organisation as a means of brand development ( we live in a commercial world, whether we like it or not), but I see no reason why that can''t work perfectly well beside a supporters group run by and for supporters, where the emphasis is on providing benefits, rather than selling merchandise. I''m sure that many people would probably be happy to be members of both for different reasons.

3. I''m not going to comment on how the committee operated before I joined it last year, but I would emphatically state that we are committed to openess in our dealings, hence the fact that I am ensuring thata synopsis of our committee meetings will be  available on our website, which launches shortly. In addition, we are improving communication via our website, Facebook page and Twitter to make it easier for members to contact us. We are, at the end of the day, a members organisation. It is incumbent upon us as a committee to reflect the views of the majority of members. However, it''s also worth making the point that the committee are all volunteers, and any funds have to be raised by us (in addition to membership fees) so it''s unrealistic to expect us to run postal plebiscites on every issue,as we would be extinct within a very short time. However, the improved social networks of today allow us to be reactive without breaking the bank.

4. As for help, I have tried to cut across what appear to be some pretty deep seated grudges in order to get the widest possible range of views. I''ve listened to Nutty, Tilly and the Butler amongst others to try to find a blend that will work. I get on with all of these people individually , and , as far as I''m concerned, if they have issues with each other that''s their concern. I certainly have no intention of falling out with anyone in order to curry favour with someone else.

5. In response to DF''s last question, I am working on something to issue to members with the AGM papers as we speak.

 

 

 

 

[Beauseant 0]

Oh, for an edit button! It should say NEW website above. The old one was too clunky and insufficiently user friendly, resulting in it not being updated as much as it perhaps should have been. The new one should work much better and will be with us very soon.

[Desert Fox 0]

Beauseant,

 

Thank you for your post - I am now reassured, particulary by points  2 and 4.

 

I should really learn not to get too wound up by people who despise what NCISA stands for.