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barclaybabe

letter to all U21s

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But i paid the 177 for an under 21, and was born march 1990. and i paid online, phoned the ticket office to confirm that i should be paying under 21 prices. and recieved my ticket last week after being checked.

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[quote user="smiley"]But i paid the 177 for an under 21, and was born march 1990. and i paid online, phoned the ticket office to confirm that i should be paying under 21 prices. and recieved my ticket last week after being checked.
[/quote]

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Well, that is interesting, smiley! I suspect largey might find that of particular interest. Were you quoted that price in the renewal letter, can you remember, or did you work out what you thought you had to pay from the chart?

 

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I can''t remember what was on the letter though i proberly still have it. What i can remember is though, buying the ticket online and unable to change my ticket price from under 21 to adult, this is when i phone the ticket office to confirm that i should be paying the under 21 prices which they assured me was correct. I picked up the ticket and i was given it with no questions ask.

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The more I think about it, the more bizarre it seems that the club wouldn''t define exactly which DOBs are eligible for all the various concessions, especially given this whole data-checking exercise. And I don''t just mean in "We Are Norwich" and the other promotional material. Reading the letter to which the title of this thread refers again, it begins and I quote:"We are undertaking an exercise to ensure that our data for our season ticket holders is up to date and accurate. This data is utilised by the club when any decision is made regarding our season ticket holders and it is therefore vital that it is correct."Given the great support we have, currently there are 22,000 season ticket holders, we are for this year verifying the date of birth for all season ticket holders under 21. To undertake this exercise we need a document to confirm your age with either a birth certificate or a passport being suitable. We will issue the season ticket once we have validated this data..."Surely this is the point where it''s obvious and arguably even necessary to mention the cut-off date? Almost gives the impression that the writer doesn''t know when it is! I suppose they might be under the (false, given the cases of Largey and smiley) illusion that if a person has given their correct DOB, they would have been sold the correct season ticket. Still though, it''s very shoddy of the club to not be precise about it, especially with this online ticketing "error" putting people in the wrong categories!Fortunately it was straightforward for me, since my 21st isn''t until February... just dreading the huge price hike come next renewal time.

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Thank you Purple, that''s very useful information which I hope to use in my next email to the club.

I mentioned smiley''s case in my previous email, however the chap that called me decided to cling onto the thought that someone posting on a message board was probably on a windup and the club doesn''t intentionally sell U21 tickets to people who they know are 21 or over.

I can''t precisely remember if I got a renewal letter through or not, but I definitely paid online the day before the first renewal and was definitely asked to pay only £177. As I''ve said and as you say, I had no other reason to believe this was the incorrect amount and from that point up until last weekend I firmly believed the under 21 ''cut off'' must be the date of the start of the season.

The chap who called me said the 1st September cut off date is in their terms and conditions, I will have a thorough search for that as well as a possible renewal letter.

Thanks again for your help guys I will let you know if I make any advances on this. I''m not clued up on the legalities so it''s good to hear that others believe my argument isn''t just sour grapes.

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[quote user="Largey"]The chap who called me said the 1st September cut off date is in their terms and conditions[/quote]Well, it''s definitely not mentioned in the "Norwich City Football Club Season Ticket and Membership Terms and Conditions" section of pages 14 and 15 in the "We Are Norwich" publication!

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Whilst I have often felt that there are too many concessions I can''t help but feel that this tightening up has been motivated by our now being in the Premier League rather than any genuine wish to make things ''fair''.

I don''t remember such diligance in the summer of 2009.

Sadly though, I suspect this has been partly motivated by the recognition of the club turn a blind eye to previous ''misuses'' of the concession system. I wonder how many upgrades on concessionary season tickets will be allowed this season. With tickets being at a premium it would be easy to not only cover the cost of a kids ticket, but to make a profit, by upgrading for a few of the top home games.

"There is no obvious logic behind September 1"

Other than it being the start of the school year, meaning that anyone in ''your year'' will be entitled to a certain concession. A more logical and easier understood cut off date than a season starting/ending date (which will be variable) - or the beginning of the calender year.

As a final thought I think this maybe just one of many new measures introduced to cope with increased demand and Premier League contractual obligations.

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[quote user="Largey"]Thank you Purple, that''s very useful information which I hope to use in my next email to the club. I mentioned smiley''s case in my previous email, however the chap that called me decided to cling onto the thought that someone posting on a message board was probably on a windup and the club doesn''t intentionally sell U21 tickets to people who they know are 21 or over. I can''t precisely remember if I got a renewal letter through or not, but I definitely paid online the day before the first renewal and was definitely asked to pay only £177. As I''ve said and as you say, I had no other reason to believe this was the incorrect amount and from that point up until last weekend I firmly believed the under 21 ''cut off'' must be the date of the start of the season. The chap who called me said the 1st September cut off date is in their terms and conditions, I will have a thorough search for that as well as a possible renewal letter. Thanks again for your help guys I will let you know if I make any advances on this. I''m not clued up on the legalities so it''s good to hear that others believe my argument isn''t just sour grapes.[/quote]

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Good luck, Largey. The club can quote its September date until it is purple (!) in the face. The bottom line is that if you told the club, either in writing or in person or over the phone, what your age was and the club then said your price was £177, then that is the price. If it''s a mistake, it''s the club''s mistake, and it has to live with that. And it seems it wasn''t just you it made the mistake with.

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Yes I agree September 1st is a logical date, but I simply can''t see it mentioned anywhere. I will have to ask the club to provide evidence to prove this is documented.

Is the onus on me to spot their mistake after I''ve effectively accepted their offer by paying for the season ticket?

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[quote user="Largey"]Yes I agree September 1st is a logical date, but I simply can''t see it mentioned anywhere. I will have to ask the club to provide evidence to prove this is documented. Is the onus on me to spot their mistake after I''ve effectively accepted their offer by paying for the season ticket?[/quote]

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No, the onus isn''t on you at all. If you gave the club all the information it needed, and that information was accurate, and it then quoted a price, that is the price. There is no obligation on the buyer to check that the club isn''t under-selling its product. None at all.

 

And even if the club can now produce evidence in what it sent you, ie in the information pack, about the cut-off date for pre-adults (as opposed to OAPs, for example), that is quite irrelevant. All that means is that the club didn''t read its own small print! There is no obligation on you to read and quote back to the club its own small print to your own disadvantage!

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Thanks again Purple.. I have located the terms and conditions on the club website under ''online contract formation - section 18'' and it mentions that the contract does not become accepted or binding until the tickets are posted to me. The receipt sent is just acknowledgement of my request to purchase the tickets. let''s see what they say and if this is brought up....

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My, my, my what a balls up from start to finish.... [:$]The club should''ve just upped the prices for U21''s ages ago in my opinion.  You''re classed as an adult from 16 upwards (soon to be 18 upwards when the new school leaving age comes in) and so you should be paying adult prices for things.  Largey should fight his case, because by fumbling around over the issue of giving ridiculously priced tickets to those who shouldn''t be getting them for far too long the club are making idiots of themselves with their recent fumbling around over this clamp down.  I agree that the club agreed to sell you a ticket at a price that they probably shouldn''t have done and more fool them in my opinion.  By fudging around with things now, just because we have won promotion and they have a couple of thousand on their season ticket waiting list they look like no better than a vulture circling for scraps by behaving like this.They either charge the lot of you FULL PRICE or stick with the silly priced tickets that they offered you all in good faith in my opinion!

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A little bit on retail law.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-pricing-disputes/your-rights/

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Largey

my understanding is that it is YOU accepting THEIR offer

therefore the binding part of the contract is when you post your acceptance to them - not when they receive it or not when they susequently post the tickets (or not) to you

I would strongly urge you to contact your local trading standards.

There may be some hidden clause that I am not aware of but I would be happy to point you in the right direction before communicating with Trading Standards.

You acted in good faith - maybe it''s time the club did.

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"You''re classed as an adult from 16 upwards"

It''s 18 that you reach what is termed the age of maturity

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[quote user="City1st"]"You''re classed as an adult from 16 upwards"

It''s 18 that you reach what is termed the age of maturity[/quote]You could''ve fooled me.  There are plenty on here who haven''t reached the age of maturity at 60+ [;)]

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I''ve been watching this thread with interest ever since my lighthearted post early doors. I have just been waiting for you Smudge!! :) But I pretty much agree with your whole post mate. I reckon, and have said for sometime, that some of the concession prices for season tickets are ridiculous. When the new broom began to sweep the 60-65 was one of the first to go. And not before time in my view. The next cull should be the under 21s. I have every sympathy with the genuine poor student. Maybe we could replace it with  reductions for students in full time education. But that isn''t the case for all the under 21s. On this very thread we have young Hoggy (good poster BTW) complaining that working full time means the opening times of the carrow road ticket office make it impossible for him to go in person to collect his under 21 ST. I accept that we want to encourage youngsters to get the Carrow bug but this happens much earlier than 18 years of age. In fact teaching them to budget for football will do as much if not more to keep them in the fold in later years. "Back in my day young man"[:$] we paid full price at 16. And if I remember rightly full price on the bus before that. Of course some of the more scrawny little scrotes amongst us got away with a few more years but the rest of us got served in pubs[B][Y]

 

As for the dates - If the club have messed up then they should honour the price they offered on renewal. If they haven''t then the full price should be paid.

 

I reckon many of the concessions were negotiated when fans helped make the business decisions. Some of the ridiculous concessions are a good reason for that having been kicked into touch.

 



 

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"There are plenty on here who haven''t reached the age of maturity at 60+

and up pops nutty !

Jokes aside, whilst having much the same views as the above two my understan

dfing for the under 21 concession is that it is more a ''transition period'' rather than a reduced rate for reduced income.

I was told this by one the ''dark forces'' of yesteryear - who to be honesty are partially responsible for this mess with the ground being full up even when we were in League 1.

The point that was made, which is never really aired is that it was fine offering the kids concessions as it supposedly made them City fans for life. What it did not do was to make them season ticket holders for longer than the day their concession ended.

£60 a season then £300 the next season (rough figures) saw a massive drop off in take up. So the idea was to gradually ease the lowest cost tickets into a full adult price over a number of stages. Of course it will grate when there are Bernard Mathews workers on the minimum wage paying double what some 20 year old whizz kid is paying.

However some of us will rember when gates used to fluctuate wildly, deoending usually on the importance of the game rather than the opposition. The ''experience'' was a by product if even considered. Now with the expectation of gauranteed food/drink and the regulation number of police/stewards/first aid etc the club need to ensure a guaranteed number of fans on the day - hence the use of price to control the demand.

Gone are the days of buying a child ticket on Eastern Counties. having a pint or two down Kings Street, paying into the juniors turnstile between the Barclay and the main stand before walking round to get a brown and mild in the bar behind the Barclay .......... then into an x film in the evening.

I''m not sure if it is less fun now

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[quote user="City1st"]"There are plenty on here who haven''t reached the age of maturity at 60+ and up pops nutty ! [/quote]

 

[H]

 

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Quote from BBC website.

Just got my 14 year old son a season ticket at Man United for £190, tenner a match, not bad, my problem is when he hits 16 it rises to £380 a season, when he hits 18, goes up to £703 a season which is what I pay for this season.

As already suggested on here, anybody between the ages of 18 and 21 is very fortunate we offer lower prices, in my mind when you reach 18 you are an adult.


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My other halfs brother is a 16 year old Celtic fan and his season ticket has cost him £1,000

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[quote user="Harry"]My other halfs brother is a 16 year old Celtic fan and his season ticket has cost him £1,000[/quote]

Wish that I''d have had £1000 when I was 16 [:''(]

 

 

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He hasn''t got the money, he''s just left school and is about to start college, he''s lucky that his stepdad has a good job and pays for it

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[quote user="Northluck C."][quote user="Largey"]The chap who called me said the 1st September cut off date is in their terms and conditions[/quote]

Well, it''s definitely not mentioned in the "Norwich City Football Club Season Ticket and Membership Terms and Conditions" section of pages 14 and 15 in the "We Are Norwich" publication!
[/quote]

Perhaps of greater importance, there is absolutely no mention of the 1st September (or any other dates for that matter) within the Club''s Customer Charter (as found on the Club''s website) when making reference to the conessionary rate bands. 

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Typical...wanted to pull someone up because they''d basically turned it into an arguement saying the club is no longer a family club etc, but can''t find the damn post.

Anyway, the way I see it is, the club are still a family club etc the only thing that has changed is it will no longer roll over and die in terms of people mugging them off.

If someone over the age of 21 tries to buy an U21 ticket they are mugging off the club and mugging off a full paying customer from any age bracket. It has nothing to do with the club''s stance.

Apart from those exceptional circumstances mentioned on here anyone else needs to accept this motion and move on, the club is no longer ''little old norwich'' or ''soft touches'' either pay the price you''re supposed to or SLING YOUR HOOK!

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''ve been watching this thread with interest ever since my lighthearted post early doors. I have just been waiting for you Smudge!! :) But I pretty much agree with your whole post mate. I reckon, and have said for sometime, that some of the concession prices for season tickets are ridiculous. When the new broom began to sweep the 60-65 was one of the first to go. And not before time in my view. The next cull should be the under 21s. I have every sympathy with the genuine poor student. Maybe we could replace it with  reductions for students in full time education. But that isn''t the case for all the under 21s. On this very thread we have young Hoggy (good poster BTW) complaining that working full time means the opening times of the carrow road ticket office make it impossible for him to go in person to collect his under 21 ST. I accept that we want to encourage youngsters to get the Carrow bug but this happens much earlier than 18 years of age. In fact teaching them to budget for football will do as much if not more to keep them in the fold in later years. "Back in my day young man"[:$] we paid full price at 16. And if I remember rightly full price on the bus before that. Of course some of the more scrawny little scrotes amongst us got away with a few more years but the rest of us got served in pubs[B][Y]

 

As for the dates - If the club have messed up then they should honour the price they offered on renewal. If they haven''t then the full price should be paid.

 

I reckon many of the concessions were negotiated when fans helped make the business decisions. Some of the ridiculous concessions are a good reason for that having been kicked into touch.

 

 

[/quote]It was exactly the same in my day too Nutty... [Y]  Gosh I''m getting old! [:(] [;)]

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[quote user="City1st"]"There are plenty on here who haven''t reached the age of maturity at 60+

and up pops nutty !

Jokes aside, whilst having much the same views as the above two my understan

dfing for the under 21 concession is that it is more a ''transition period'' rather than a reduced rate for reduced income.

I was told this by one the ''dark forces'' of yesteryear - who to be honesty are partially responsible for this mess with the ground being full up even when we were in League 1.

The point that was made, which is never really aired is that it was fine offering the kids concessions as it supposedly made them City fans for life. What it did not do was to make them season ticket holders for longer than the day their concession ended.

£60 a season then £300 the next season (rough figures) saw a massive drop off in take up. So the idea was to gradually ease the lowest cost tickets into a full adult price over a number of stages. Of course it will grate when there are Bernard Mathews workers on the minimum wage paying double what some 20 year old whizz kid is paying.

However some of us will rember when gates used to fluctuate wildly, deoending usually on the importance of the game rather than the opposition. The ''experience'' was a by product if even considered. Now with the expectation of gauranteed food/drink and the regulation number of police/stewards/first aid etc the club need to ensure a guaranteed number of fans on the day - hence the use of price to control the demand.

Gone are the days of buying a child ticket on Eastern Counties. having a pint or two down Kings Street, paying into the juniors turnstile between the Barclay and the main stand before walking round to get a brown and mild in the bar behind the Barclay .......... then into an x film in the evening.

I''m not sure if it is less fun now[/quote]Nuty only celebrated his 55th Birthday a few days ago.  Still a young pup our Nutty - he just looks old! [:D]I still think that there is a massive drop off rate when people reach 21 and either can''t afford it or decide that the extra £250 or so is better off spent elsewhere in their opinion.  Like Nutty, I think the majority of fans are hooked well before their 18th birthday and those who are hooked would find a way to pay the extra (some of them a lot easier than many of the older fans do with additional outgoings).The club should now have to stick by what they promised and give these guys their cheap tickets though.  Maybe they will think things through more before the next set of season tickets are released?

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Largey, how did you get on with complaining to the club? Did they let you off or made you pay?

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