Ruddy

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Smudger"]I have played a couple of ganes for a club ranked at a higher level than Beau but don''t shout about it from the rooftops Tilly. Ps. Wasn''t Beau a Striker? Shows why he seems to appear to know nothing about goalkeeping then! As for Beau''s Saint Forster, don''t make me laugh. I just want a decent keeper that we can rely on an couldn''t care less what his name is. For what it is worth I reckon that young Declan could be better than both of them and thought he was unlucky to lose his place in the team to both Forster and Ruddy, coz he has never let us down once when standing in for either of them and certainly has safer hands than the pair of them. To the people who suggest that Rudd needs a season on loan in the Championship.. 3 names for you of keepers who have been brought through the ranks of their clubs in the last 10 years or so and never let their Premiership employers down... Joe Hart, Ben Foster, Paul Robinson. The views from you and Beau don''t surprise me though. The very same old NCISA Chairman''s cautious majority first view as they see it rather than their own. Remember Simeon Jackson you two..."dreadful striker" isn''t he???[/quote]

 

Blimey, even the goalkeeping issue is NCISAs fault![;)]

I really admire your approach of lauding an unfashionable player so that you can say "I knew all along " if they come off. Worked to some extent with Jacko, epic fail with McNamee, and now Declan is the new Kevin Keelan. I can remember watching him twice. The first time he gave a goal away by rushing off his line when he had cover and the second time he spannered virtually every kick into the Jarrold. I think that the real goalkeeping prospect at the club is Steer, but he still has some developing to do.

Do you actually watch much football? If you did you wouldn''t make ridiculous statements like the one about Robinson, Foster and Hart. You don''t think they ever "let their employers down"? I seem to recall Robinson being bombed out by Spurs and England after a string of howlers and remind me again how Foster made the grade at Manchester United, as I seem to have missed it. Hart isn''t exactly rock solid, either, is he?

[/quote]Hart is young and the best English keeper there is at the moment, closely followed by Foster (who although he was never really given a chance at Man Utd has still played all of his pro football at the top level - so other Premier clubs who were not lucky enough to have a keeper of Van Der Sar''s class were quite happy  and willing to give him the chance to prove himself at the top level).  As for Robinson, he came straight in at the very top level playing for Leeds in the Champions League before being sold for a lot of money to Spurs.  Yes he made a few errors for Spurs and England - was then over criticised for those errors before being sold to Blackburn where he has also done very well indeed.If you are trying to compare Ruddy''s capability to any of those 3 goalkeepers, then I would suggest that this clarifies that you may know something about how to score goals Rob, but absolutely nothing about goalkeeping.As for Rudd, he he has never made an error anywhere near as bad as the worst 4 or 5 that Ruddy made last season, or even the other basic errors (about 7 or 8 of them in total) that Ruddy made also.  He has also never made the kind of errors that people like to point out that Fraser Forster has made - such in the game away at Leeds and his more recent couple for Celtic.Even trying to suggest that Ruddy could be as good as Hart, Foster or Robinson is just hilarious in my opinion! [:D]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]

"To the people who suggest that Rudd needs a season on loan in the Championship.. 3 names for you of keepers who have been brought through the ranks of their clubs in the last 10 years or so and never let their Premiership employers down... Joe Hart, Ben Foster, Paul Robinson."

 

Have I missed something here. Joe Hart was brought through the ranks of Shrewsbury Town playing in the Conference and League Two before joining Manchestre City, whilst there he was loaned to three different clubs. Hardly brought through the ranks. Ben Foster started at Stoke City before being loaned to five different clubs before he joined Man Utd where he didn''t play two dozen games. Hardly brought through the ranks. Paul Robinson granted was brought through the ranks at Leeds and became their number one but many people, myself included, thought that Leeds (or Venables) insistance on playing the ''up and coming'' Robinson instead of the excellent and vastly experience Nigel Martyn had much to do with their fall down the leagues. I don''t think many Spurs fans would agree with you that Robinson never let them down. More than any other poition on the pitch goalkeepers need experience. It is very difficult for young keepers to step into the spotlight and maintain a high level of performance.

For the older members of this forum can you remember Mervyn Day of West Ham? When he first played for West Ham at 18 he was being tipped to be an England keeper for the next 15 years. It was only ten years later that he regained a regular spot in the top division after he had drifted down the leagues.

Goalkeepers must be given time to learn their trade. Rudd and Steer have both got extremely good futures ahead of them but please, please don''t rush them.

Oh ....... and incidentally .......... I can''t see Simeon Jackson starting too many games this season and I can''t see him scoring too many goals. 

[/quote]But you are one of the many who was saying this throughout last season, despite him having the best goals per minutes on the pitch ratio for most of the season (even in his early days).PS.  Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, somebody who should know a thing or two about putting the ball in the net at the very top level disagrees with you.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Salopian"]We as spectators have seen him make some elementary blunders, as well as some magnificent saves.

The goal we conceded on Wednesday was because he "flapped" rather than punching it, but one of our defenders was backing into him under pressure from an attacker.

I was disappointed, and I am slightly nervous when long balls are hit into the area, but in the end the question is whether he and the defenders can reach a better understanding.

The most crucial question is to what extent the defence feels that they can rely on him. If they have doubts, then we really are in trouble.[/quote]

Excellent point [Y]I feel that our central defenders were at many times last season concerned about what was going on over their shoulders.  Most of the time that I played footy my positions were either a defensive centre midfielder or a defender, so I know just how true this comment is.It is a major worry for me too!

[Smudger 0]

Oh dear a few of you googling Joe Hart''s career details hey? [:$]I am sure that you all watched an 18/19 year old play about one season at the mighyty Shrewsbury Town, prior to Man City signing him for £600k.Facts remain he had no real experience of anything until Man City and then Brum took a gamble on a young lad at Premiership level!

[ricardo 7,385]

I don''t always agree with you Smudger, but as an ex-goalie I''m totally with you on this one.

[Guest]

[quote user="Smudger"]As for Rudd, he he has never made an error anywhere near as bad as the worst 4 or 5 that Ruddy made last season, or even the other basic errors (about 7 or 8 of them in total) that Ruddy made also.  He has also never made the kind of errors that people like to point out that Fraser Forster has made - such in the game away at Leeds and his more recent couple for Celtic.Even trying to suggest that Ruddy could be as good as Hart, Foster or Robinson is just hilarious in my opinion! [:D][/quote]Not really a fair comparison though is it Smudge - how many competitive games has Rudd had in comparison to Ruddy and Foster? [:^)]Ruddy does not instill 100 percent confidence in me, but he is still a young keeper and, I believe, improved dramtically over the course of the season. I see no reason why he will not continue improving if given the chance, so I will definitely get behind him until proven otherwise, and I can''t for the life of me imagine why any fan would think differently given the massive 38 games that are approaching.I appreciate someone with forthright and honest opinions, but given your amusing track record and condescending nature I cannot help but think you are making a rod for your own back!

[Evesham Canary 0]

As I said earlier on this thread I have some doubts over Ruddy but unless we can get in someone better than him then I think we should stick with him and Rudd. If Steer has a good 3 mths out at Yeovil he could even be pushing for a place soon - if he plays most of their games he will have more games than Rudd under his belt!For the record, I really don''t see that Foster is any better than Ruddy. His kicking is so poor that it totally outweighs any other attribute.Personally, I would try and sign Lee Camp - something that idiot Grant should have done rather than piss away the £1M he did on Marshall!

[bjg123 0]

Smudger you talk such rubbish. Ben Foster has played about the same amount of games in lower leagues as he has in the premiership.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

I was at Wednesdays game and we conceded a very sloppy goal due to the defenders and Ruddy not dealing with the loose ball!

 

Its wrong to say it was all Ruddys fault!

 

If we can cut these out then we''ll be OK cause we looked more than capable going forward!

 

I remember some dodgy moments from the friendlies last summer so all this panicing and looking for the first scapegoat is silly!

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

Just to say I was impressed with Ruddy today. Not that he was troubled too many times but he appeared very confident to me and I fully beleive he is ready and prepared for the premier league!

[Gingerpele 0]

Sumdger, you mention the defenders not having confidence in him....

How did you come to that conclusion?

Yes its a possibility, but if anything i think the defenders put pressure on him passing the ball to him when a striker is only 10 yards away. Would they really do that if they didn''t have any confidence in him?

Its a defenders job to defend, not worry about what the keeper is doing, if a player gets past the defender, he''s always going to worry that he might score, wether its Ruddy, Forster, Hart or anyone else in goal.

I''ve seen you say something along the lines of other fans think Lambert is god etc etc. Which is going a bit OTT really, what people say, is Lambert has got pretty much everything right the past two seasons (yes with little mistakes here and there) so when he says he''s happy with Ruddy and Rudd, we should be too. Not trying your best to come up with all sorts of evidence against out players, counting mistakes etc.

Its our job to support the team, yes were allowed to have out own opinions, and it doesn''t matter if anyone else agrees with you, its easy to respect your devotion to your view point, and not just giving up. But i seriously think you need to give Ruddy a chance, and let him prove himself in the premiership.

[Beauseant 0]

Another shocker from Ruddy today. Yes, his handling and decision making were excellent, but surely even the most ardent Ruddy fan must accept that, had Fraser had such a quiet afternoon, he would have used it to resolve the US debt crisis and negotiate a Middle eastern settlement? He''s got to go.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="Smudger"]Oh dear a few of you googling Joe Hart''s career details hey? [:$]

I am sure that you all watched an 18/19 year old play about one season at the mighyty Shrewsbury Town, prior to Man City signing him for £600k.

Facts remain he had no real experience of anything until Man City and then Brum took a gamble on a young lad at Premiership level!
[/quote]

Three seasons of league football at Shrewsbury as a matter of fact Mr Know it All and as you were not at the game today just to let you know your mate Simeone missed two one on ones in the first half,[:P]

[Smudger 0]

Where as your mates got us relegated to Division 3... [:$]

[Smudger 0]

PS... Joe Hart less than 60 games for Shrewsbury - I won''t look it up on Google.He was still only 18/19 and Rudd has experience at a higher level than he had prior to Man City signing him.  Brum and Man City took a chance on somebody that we wouldn''t have done, because 99.9% of our fans say that a goalkeeper needs a full seasons Championship experience prior to being given a chance at Premier League level.You are still failing to explain Paul Robinson away too.  A far better keeper than Ruddy will ever be.  A keeper who made his professional bow for Leeds Utd when they were a Champions League side!

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="Smudger"]PS... Joe Hart less than 60 games for Shrewsbury - I won''t look it up on Google.

He was still only 18/19 and Rudd has experience at a higher level than he had prior to Man City signing him.  Brum and Man City took a chance on somebody that we wouldn''t have done, because 99.9% of our fans say that a goalkeeper needs a full seasons Championship experience prior to being given a chance at Premier League level.

You are still failing to explain Paul Robinson away too.  A far better keeper than Ruddy will ever be.  A keeper who made his professional bow for Leeds Utd when they were a Champions League side!
[/quote]

" failing to explain Paul Robinson away too" I was not aware i had mentioned Paul Robinson but if you wish me to comment on him i think it was both England and Spurs who witnessed first hand his juggling skills and as for Champions League football with Leeds Utd was that not the season they were dumped by the mighty Glasgow Rangers who are lucky to win the toss in European games?

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"I think anyone who was at the Charlton away game will know why people think so highly of FF, I think in my 25+ years of watching football that was one of the best keeping displays I have ever seen, I was in the Charlton end and a mate sitting next to me kept jumping up and down going mental as FF pulled off save after save."

 

I agree. I was in the Charlton end (had to wangle a ticket) and FF kept us in the game with some simply unbelievable saves. Like Keelan at his best.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Ruddy didn''t have a lot to do today (not his fault of course!) but what he did do was as solid as a rock!

 

Ruddy done a good job for us last season and while hes prone to the odd blunder (so was saint FF!) hes good enough to do the job for us this season!

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="Beauseant"]Another shocker from Ruddy today. Yes, his handling and decision making were excellent, but surely even the most ardent Ruddy fan must accept that, had Fraser had such a quiet afternoon, he would have used it to resolve the US debt crisis and negotiate a Middle eastern settlement? He''s got to go.[/quote]

 

---

 

Ah! I wondered why I''d had an email from Tyneside today asking me to differentiate between Hamas and Fatah and demanding up-to-date figures for China''s holdings of T-bills...

 

Slightly (only slightly) more seriously, what we are seeing here is what we sociologists call The Smudger Effect. This is where a perfectly sound hypothesis (in this case the The Dangerous Frailities of John Ruddy) which is argued by perfectly sound people, can be and indeed is rubbished because it is also propounded by someone widely believed to be barking mad.

 

 

 

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Beauseant"]Another shocker from Ruddy today. Yes, his handling and decision making were excellent, but surely even the most ardent Ruddy fan must accept that, had Fraser had such a quiet afternoon, he would have used it to resolve the US debt crisis and negotiate a Middle eastern settlement? He''s got to go.[/quote]

 

---

 

Ah! I wondered why I''d had an email from Tyneside today asking me to differentiate between Hamas and Fatah and demanding up-to-date figures for China''s holdings of T-bills...

 

Slightly (only slightly) more seriously, what we are seeing here is what we sociologists call The Smudger Effect. This is where a perfectly sound hypothesis (in this case the The Dangerous Frailities of John Ruddy) which is argued by perfectly sound people, can be and indeed is rubbished because it is also propounded by someone widely believed to be barking mad.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Radio Norfolk wanted to hear my views last night, but I left them with the dull views of the usual candidates... [;)]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Smudger"]PS... Joe Hart less than 60 games for Shrewsbury - I won''t look it up on Google.He was still only 18/19 and Rudd has experience at a higher level than he had prior to Man City signing him.  Brum and Man City took a chance on somebody that we wouldn''t have done, because 99.9% of our fans say that a goalkeeper needs a full seasons Championship experience prior to being given a chance at Premier League level.You are still failing to explain Paul Robinson away too.  A far better keeper than Ruddy will ever be.  A keeper who made his professional bow for Leeds Utd when they were a Champions League side![/quote]

" failing to explain Paul Robinson away too" I was not aware i had mentioned Paul Robinson but if you wish me to comment on him i think it was both England and Spurs who witnessed first hand his juggling skills and as for Champions League football with Leeds Utd was that not the season they were dumped by the mighty Glasgow Rangers who are lucky to win the toss in European games?

[/quote]So Ruddy is going to play for England, do better than Robinson and also be successful at two Premiership  Clubs (as Robinson has done with both Leeds and Blackburn) is he?PS - Fancy commenting on why you supported and rated the players that got us relegated to the 3rd tier before it was too late also???

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Salopian"]We as spectators have seen him make some elementary blunders, as well as some magnificent saves. The goal we conceded on Wednesday was because he "flapped" rather than punching it, but one of our defenders was backing into him under pressure from an attacker. I was disappointed, and I am slightly nervous when long balls are hit into the area, but in the end the question is whether he and the defenders can reach a better understanding. The most crucial question is to what extent the defence feels that they can rely on him. If they have doubts, then we really are in trouble.[/quote]


Excellent point [Y]

I feel that our central defenders were at many times last season concerned about what was going on over their shoulders.  Most of the time that I played footy my positions were either a defensive centre midfielder or a defender, so I know just how true this comment is.

It is a major worry for me too!

[/quote]

Is this clown for real?

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="Smudger"]
PS - Fancy commenting on why you supported and rated the players that got us relegated to the 3rd tier before it was too late also???
[/quote]

What on earth are you on about Smudger? Quote a post or two to back up this statement...........and all this from the chap who whilst i was placing a wreath(kindly supplied by"and Smith must score") under the windscreen wipers of Doomcasters car on the Charlton carpark on the day of relegation to the " 3rd tier" was having is photo taken with his favourite player Simon Lappin.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Salopian"]We as spectators have seen him make some elementary blunders, as well as some magnificent saves. The goal we conceded on Wednesday was because he "flapped" rather than punching it, but one of our defenders was backing into him under pressure from an attacker. I was disappointed, and I am slightly nervous when long balls are hit into the area, but in the end the question is whether he and the defenders can reach a better understanding. The most crucial question is to what extent the defence feels that they can rely on him. If they have doubts, then we really are in trouble.[/quote]


Excellent point [Y]

I feel that our central defenders were at many times last season concerned about what was going on over their shoulders.  Most of the time that I played footy my positions were either a defensive centre midfielder or a defender, so I know just how true this comment is.

It is a major worry for me too!

[/quote]

Is this clown for real?

[/quote]

Smudger has already claimed to have played football at a higher level than Beau earlier on and i know that Robin played for Kings Lynn so maybe it is time for Smudger to state who he actually played for unless of course.................

[yellowdamien 0]

Just to interject in the usual slanging matches between Til and Smudger (yawn) and get back to the OP''s point, I personally think Ruddy will do well for us. People espousing that he will not be as good as Foster, Robinson, or Hart: maybe not, but we''ve just been promoted and it''s unlikely that we''re going to attract an international goalkeeper. Ruddy''s made a few mistakes, granted, but he''s also pulled off some cracking saves. Forster was also a good keeper, but he isn''t God''s answer to goalkeepers like everyone seems to think. I personally will be fully behind Ruddy this season.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="yellowdamien"]Just to interject in the usual slanging matches between Til and Smudger (yawn) and get back to the OP''s point, I personally think Ruddy will do well for us. People espousing that he will not be as good as Foster, Robinson, or Hart: maybe not, but we''ve just been promoted and it''s unlikely that we''re going to attract an international goalkeeper. Ruddy''s made a few mistakes, granted, but he''s also pulled off some cracking saves. Forster was also a good keeper, but he isn''t God''s answer to goalkeepers like everyone seems to think. I personally will be fully behind Ruddy this season.[/quote]

I think that Ruddy will do just fine for us this season also yellowdamien and it is not a slanging match with Smudger but i am fed up with him jumping into every thread where Ruddy''s name pops up claiming that he is not good enough and then tries to justify his opinion by saying that he was right about Jackson.

[Alejandra 0]

I''d rather have Ruddy in goal than the 18 million calamity David de Gea, Fact [:)]For the amount he''s cost Norwich I''m suprised people are even moaning about him

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Alejandra"]I''d rather have Ruddy in goal than the 18 million calamity David de Gea, Fact [:)]

[/quote]

Or the original calamity James currently playing at Bristol City

[G 0]

What level have people played at then? Just curious after looking at this disscussion. I think your right in some cases worrying about your keeper may put doubt and worry in your mind but it shouldn''t affect your performance in a bad way should spur you on to do better imo. Never played in defence though.

[Mister Chops 7]

Fraser Forster is a better goalkeeper - fact.  And while we''re on the subject of facts, there wouldn''t have been any rioting if Fraser Forster was Prime Minister.  There wouldn''t have been any phone tapping if Fraser Forster was chief executive of News International, and there wouldn''t be any famine if Fraser Forster was head of the United Nations.  My only regret is that our current Coalition government isn''t headed by Fraser Forster and Cody Macdonald because then we would rule the frickin'' world.