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Disagree it being a gamble, I think we will get more then 20 games and even if he doesn''t we still have cover. Coming off the back of a pretty injury free season, probably most injury free season of his career so must be feeling pretty confident at the moment.

Swollen knee isn''t neccessarily bad, it can be. But it can be anything, even just landing on it slightly the wrong way. Your knee will swell up to anything even a niggle.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]Is swollen after a few pre season games, that''s not great is it?! I can''t see vaughan playing more then 20 games this season, an absolute huge gamble by lambert.[/quote]Might not be a terrible thing, would he play many more than that if he didn''t have any strains or pulls at all? I assume that Lambert will start with Jackson, and all going well if Jackson takes that chance then Vaughan will be coming off the bench for a while anyway. I agree that the £1.5m is a gamble, but I don''t think it is a gamble that will make or break our season, we have Morison, Holt, Martin, Jackson, and Wilbraham..... six strikers! We will be fine in that department. Players like that just have to be managed, look at Bellamy, he''s done his knee a few times and probably only manages 20-30 games a year most years but is still hot property. His injury is probably the reason he was so cheap, a fully fit Vaughan playing regularly would still be at Everton with a £6m price tag!We could always sign Pacheco just in case :) :) :) - yes please Lambo.

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Getting Vaughan fit is more important than coaching him right now; hopefully his removal is based on being over-cautious - although it doesn''t look good at this early stage to withdraw a player with known injury problems.

 

PL has put his neck firmly on the line regarding this lads ability to perform on the pitch for 90 mins twice a week!

 

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I really don''t mean this as an ''attack'' of any sort, more an observation...

But in the 3 years you''ve been on this board Lincoln, i genuinely can''t remember a single positive post that you''ve made. It really is just all doom and gloom.

Lighten up, chap. It''s just a swollen knee, and we have over 2 weeks ''til the season starts yet.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

As soon as I read that about Vaughan I knew that someone would start a moaning thread about it. I even had the OP on my shortlist.

[/quote]It is a legitimate concern, you are talking about a 23 year old who had a knee ligament injury at 18 years old and then another one at 20, which kept him out of the game for two whole seasons (19 months to be precise). The OP has every right to be concerned in my opinion. What I would say to the OP however is that we appear to have an awesome medical department and fitness set up, nobody expected Whitbread our other crock to manage his great run last year so hopefully we can get similar out of Vaughan!

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

As soon as I read that about Vaughan I knew that someone would start a moaning thread about it. I even had the OP on my shortlist.

[/quote]

It is a legitimate concern, you are talking about a 23 year old who had a knee ligament injury at 18 years old and then another one at 20, which kept him out of the game for two whole seasons (19 months to be precise). The OP has every right to be concerned in my opinion.

What I would say to the OP however is that we appear to have an awesome medical department and fitness set up, nobody expected Whitbread our other crock to manage his great run last year so hopefully we can get similar out of Vaughan!


[/quote]

Agreed, it is a concern, especially as Vaughan is the most highly rated of our strikers IMO. I would not want us to be totally reliant on the others who are all unproven in the Prem.  

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I''m not moaning I''m concerned, he''s the only player with so called prem experience and according to 80-90% of fans on here our biggest goal threat next season and a player fans are most excited to see play! So to hear he''s injured already after just a few training matches is a worry!

And as for our striking department it''s about quality not quantity. Let''s be honest people we are taking a huge gamble with the lads we''ve got.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]. Let''s be honest people we are taking a huge gamble with the lads we''ve got.[/quote]

Yet another Percy Positive post!!![:@]

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Do we actually know that it is the same knee that he has had problems with previously or is everybody just assuming it is?? As other posters have said it could be anything just a minor niggle, who knows, i''m sure the nedical team will have him up and running in no time at all.

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Given Zak Whitbread''s eventual recovery the capability of our medical people looks excellent - I for one thought we had bought a terminal sicknote there. I was delighted to be proved wrong last season!

Truth is, we don''t know how serious or otherwise Vaughan''s injuries are do we? The Norwich medical team must have given Vaughan a 12 month MOT certificate only a few weeks ago when he signed, so it really shouldn''t be anything more than precautionary. Remember there are other players being rested for similar reasons (Drury & BJ).

 

Talking injuries, I was in main reception at Carrow Road during the first week of June when a telephone call came through for Neal Reynolds from Queens Hospital requesting authorisation for a player op; I don''t remember reading anything about any of our players having end-of-season surgery - does anyone know which player that might have been?

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]I''m not moaning I''m concerned, he''s the only player with so called prem experience and according to 80-90% of fans on here our biggest goal threat next season and a player fans are most excited to see play! So to hear he''s injured already after just a few training matches is a worry! And as for our striking department it''s about quality not quantity. Let''s be honest people we are taking a huge gamble with the lads we''ve got.[/quote]

You said in your opening post;

...an absolute huge gamble by lambert.

So what is not a ''gamble''? Spending bucketloads (including their wages) on a couple of seasoned players from one of the relegated teams or the lower reaches of the Bundesliga/Serie A TIM? It does not matter anyway because whatever transfer policy PL follows there are certain posters loading the magazines in preparation for the firing squad if he fails.

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Two things really. The first is that with the amount of money being paid and the amount of money going on the contract, do you honestly think the medical team dont know exactly where he is with his knees? The medical isnt just ''oh hop up on a treadmill for 5 minutes and then give us 10 keepie-up-ies''. If there was any risk of him not being able to play as a result of previous injuries they wouldnt have taken the risk. The second is well, shall we wait till he is missing actual league matches before we start questioning the signing, he will be likely to feature in next weeks matches as his body is probably adjusting to level of training, as pointed out by many players Norwich has an extremely intesense training system and it might be Something that Vaughan hasnt been through since his early Everton day. Its more than likely his body is just playing catch up... its the whole point of pre-season to get fit and get the little niggles out of the way before it gets to a point where its affecting league games.

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Why''s it a gamble?

Seriously, what''s the worst that can happen?

Say we get relegated. The club is millions better off, we have a young, hungry squad with some all important top flight experience, and we''re in a great position to push back into the Premier at the first time of asking.

We got promoted from the Championship way ahead of schedule, and relegation won''t be a disaster. In my view, this season is a bonus. Enjoy it, for cryin'' out loud!

Just my opinion, of course, but it''d be a far larger gamble for us to be breaking the bank signing ''big name'' players on massively over inflated wages, when those sort of players give you no extra guarantee of staying in the Premier.

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Come on J.G wake up and smell the qwoffee. Signing a player who has only made a handfull of appearances since making his debut 7 years ago due to injury for a healthy fee in the region of 2 million pounds must represent a "huge gamble" no?

I agree there''s no point in signing players from relegated prem teams (although there''s still decent quality there) and I would much rather sign hungry young players but there are better strikers than Morrison and Vaughan in the championship that we could have signed for similar money. Not that I won''t be supporting them.

It''s funny I get stick for pointing out which players are gambles and who I do not believe are up to it yet most of the people saying how good these players are before they''ve kicked a ball are the ones who turn on them when they don''t score every game.

I believe I''m a pretty good judge of players, I stood by hoolahan when others said get rid and I was part of the minority who said Jackson was quality and would come good too. Vaughan and Morrison are big gambles and IMO will not score ten goals between them, I''m happy for people to quote me on this.

And why I''m at it I think the big players for us this year will be whitbread, fox and Jackson.

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Lincoln you make some interesting points, but ima affraid I cant support your attitude with:''I agree there''s no point in signing players from relegated prem teams

(although there''s still decent quality there) and I would much rather

sign hungry young players but there are better strikers than Morrison

and Vaughan in the championship that we could have signed for similar

money.
''
In the words of Old uncle Glen ''I must have missed you tenure as manager''. Care to elaborate on who is better in the Championship who we could have got in the 1.5-2 million price range? I find it strange when people insisit that they know better than the club, Im no scout and id put my hands up to say that while there are players I like and would  love Norwich to sign, that doenst make me a qualified judge to decide who would best suit our squad. Lambert was criticised last season for the lack of Championship experience being brought into the squad; Crofts, Fox, Ruddy and Jackson all came under fire from various people on this board and we came second. Have we not learnt from our mistakes? Lets wait till we know how we are performing before effecitvely making guess work on the standard of our team and how well they will do.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"] Vaughan and Morrison are big gambles and IMO will not score ten goals between them, I''m happy for people to quote me on this.[/quote]

Duly noted and filed.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]there are better strikers than Morrison and Vaughan in the championship that we could have signed for similar money.[/quote]

Names please.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"] a player who has only made a handfull of appearances since making his debut 7 years ago .[/quote]

38 of his 87 league appearances have been made in the last 2 seasons which to me shows his teenage injuries are now hopefully behind him.

He made his debut aged 16(7 years ago) so he was hardly going to be a regular fixture in the Everton team that young now was he?

Sorry for the Tangie type posting but as many of you know i am a technophobe.[;)]

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="lincoln canary"] a player who has only made a handfull of appearances since making his debut 7 years ago .[/quote]

38 of his 87 league appearances have been made in the last 2 seasons which to me shows his teenage injuries are now hopefully behind him.

He made his debut aged 16(7 years ago) so he was hardly going to be a regular fixture in the Everton team that young now was he?

Sorry for the Tangie type posting but as many of you know i am a technophobe.[;)]

[/quote]Lincoln Canary: "I can''t see vaughan playing more then 20 games this season"Til 1010: 38 of his 87 league appearances have been made in the last 2 seasonsSometimes you really aren''t the brightest spark Tilson.

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[quote user="birchfest"]Two things really. The first is that with the amount of money being paid and the amount of money going on the contract, do you honestly think the medical team dont know exactly where he is with his knees? The medical isnt just ''oh hop up on a treadmill for 5 minutes and then give us 10 keepie-up-ies''. If there was any risk of him not being able to play as a result of previous injuries they wouldnt have taken the risk.

The second is well, shall we wait till he is missing actual league matches before we start questioning the signing, he will be likely to feature in next weeks matches as his body is probably adjusting to level of training, as pointed out by many players Norwich has an extremely intesense training system and it might be Something that Vaughan hasnt been through since his early Everton day. Its more than likely his body is just playing catch up... its the whole point of pre-season to get fit and get the little niggles out of the way before it gets to a point where its affecting league games.
[/quote]

I think your first point says a lot about this thread and actually, a great deal about this Board as a wholeover the last couple of months..

Yes we all have opinions and we are entitled to express them and yes we all think that our own opinions are right and are important.   In issues such as whether Jackson is a better striker that Martin, that is entirely reasonable.   Where it tips over into insult and overweaning arrogance is when the opinion attacks the professionalism and sometimes the integrity of those at the club.  

We have a thread questioning whether Wilbraham is good enough which has the unspoken but unavoidable subtext that the posters attacking Wilby believe that Lambert will select players who are not good enough in his view for the Prem.   This means either that Lambert does not know what he is doing or that he is deliberately sabotaging our season.   Does anybody believe either is true?  Of course not but those arrogant enough to challenge his selections have to be saying so because there is no alternative. 

When Pilkington was signed there were posters hoping he would get a proper medical and saying we should pay less because he had had such a bad injury.  As if Mcnally and Lambert hadn''t heard about his broken leg and as if they were not going to get the best available medical. 

Similarly here.   Vaughan''s injuries are public knowldge and I prefer to rely on the professional set-up at Carrow Road to assess his fitness and not some self important arrogant poster who not only has never met Vaughan, much less looked at his knee but is not medically qualified and therefore could not evaluate the knee even if he had all the relevant information.   Whereas in reality he has none!!

I repeat that I am not suggesting the club is always right and we should accept whatever happens.   I still do not understand what three City managers saw in Otsembor but there must have been something.  I try not to be so arrogant as to assume that I am right and he was rubbish and those three were all losers who didn''t know a good footballer.   It is clearly more complicated that than.  

 To suggest that the Club did not take every precaution when signing Vaughan and Pilkington is nonsense and insults the integrity of all those working for the Club on those deals

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]Come on J.G wake up and smell the qwoffee. Signing a player who has only made a handfull of appearances since making his debut 7 years ago due to injury for a healthy fee in the region of 2 million pounds must represent a "huge gamble" no? I agree there''s no point in signing players from relegated prem teams (although there''s still decent quality there) and I would much rather sign hungry young players but there are better strikers than Morrison and Vaughan in the championship that we could have signed for similar money. Not that I won''t be supporting them. It''s funny I get stick for pointing out which players are gambles and who I do not believe are up to it yet most of the people saying how good these players are before they''ve kicked a ball are the ones who turn on them when they don''t score every game. I believe I''m a pretty good judge of players, I stood by hoolahan when others said get rid and I was part of the minority who said Jackson was quality and would come good too. Vaughan and Morrison are big gambles and IMO will not score ten goals between them, I''m happy for people to quote me on this. And why I''m at it I think the big players for us this year will be whitbread, fox and Jackson.[/quote]

 

 

I am not trying to give you ammunition because I completely disagree with what your saying, but surely the most risky signing is Pilkington? Not yet played since breaking his leg and I personally am concerned with that.

I was one of the small minority also who always backed Jackson also, but I don''t understand this situation with Vaughan being a risk. Surely Jackson was more of a risk. Jackson had a bad second half of the season for Gillingham and that was the highest level he played at, and that was a big amount for him £1 million. At the time that was a lot of money, we hadn''t spend that in a long time before that transfer window. Surely more element of risk in that?

I think James Vaughan is going to be our best signing, I think he has been unlucky in injuries but he seems the sort of character to work hard to stay fit and I think he will bang the goals in this season.

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[quote user="birchfest"]Lincoln you make some interesting points, but ima affraid I cant support your attitude with:

''I agree there''s no point in signing players from relegated prem teams (although there''s still decent quality there) and I would much rather sign hungry young players but there are better strikers than Morrison and Vaughan in the championship that we could have signed for similar money.''

In the words of Old uncle Glen ''I must have missed you tenure as manager''. Care to elaborate on who is better in the Championship who we could have got in the 1.5-2 million price range? I find it strange when people insisit that they know better than the club, Im no scout and id put my hands up to say that while there are players I like and would  love Norwich to sign, that doenst make me a qualified judge to decide who would best suit our squad.

Lambert was criticised last season for the lack of Championship experience being brought into the squad; Crofts, Fox, Ruddy and Jackson all came under fire from various people on this board and we came second. Have we not learnt from our mistakes? Lets wait till we know how we are performing before effecitvely making guess work on the standard of our team and how well they will do.
[/quote]

I spent some time drafting my last post and missed this.  It is excellent and I endorse it.   I think that you and I are coming from the same place Birchfest!!

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Out of interest who do people think has recruited best upfront out of the promoted teams?

 

Swansea = Danny Graham, Leroy Lita & Wayne Routledge

QPR = Jay Bothroyd & Kieran Dyer

NCFC = Steve Morison, Elliott Bennett, Anthony Pilkington & James Vaughan

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]

Out of interest who do people think has recruited best upfront out of the promoted teams?

 

Swansea = Danny Graham, Leroy Lita & Wayne Routledge

QPR = Jay Bothroyd & Kieran Dyer

NCFC = Steve Morison, Elliott Bennett, Anthony Pilkington & James Vaughan

[/quote]

 

 

I would say Swansea and us is close. I think that we had the better attack and have added another dimension whilst Swansea lost a couple of attacking players. I think James Vaughan edges it for us though.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]

Out of interest who do people think has recruited best upfront out of the promoted teams?

 

Swansea = Danny Graham, Leroy Lita & Wayne Routledge

QPR = Jay Bothroyd & Kieran Dyer

NCFC = Steve Morison, Elliott Bennett, Anthony Pilkington & James Vaughan

[/quote]Swansea by a country mile. Especially when half of the ones you list for us aren''t strikers.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]

Out of interest who do people think has recruited best upfront out of the promoted teams?

 

Swansea = Danny Graham, Leroy Lita & Wayne Routledge

QPR = Jay Bothroyd & Kieran Dyer

NCFC = Steve Morison, Elliott Bennett, Anthony Pilkington & James Vaughan

[/quote]I think it''s very close between Swansea and Norwich up front. But I bet our strike force is more cost effective, we all know that Lita is on serious whack and Routledge must be on serious prem wages. We benefit from having two stand out players from last year, Holt and Hoolohan, but they have Sinclair who is class. I''d be very dissapointed as a QPR fan, but they are set to sign DJ Campbell who has shown he can score at that level. I think it''s going to be very close down there, I don''t think we can understimate anybody.

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Have I missed something? Just logged on and read this thread and there is a hell of a lot of people worrying about James Vaughan. The last I heard is that Lambert said Vaughan and Elliot Ward will not make the Southend game. Has he came out and said that Vaughan''s injury is worse than first thought, or could we still expect to see him next week? I agree though it''s not ideal for one of our strikers to miss out on quite a few pre-season games. Does anyone know why Ward will be missing either?

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