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norfolkbroadslim

I'm Panicking Slightly! - surely we still need 3-4 more players?

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After Lambert''s comments this week I can''t help but panic a little bit. I am praying that his comments that we will hopefully bring in 1 more player were a bit of a shroud to hide potential deals or to not raise too many hopes.

 

I think we still need 3 - 4 players. A goalkeeper, 2 defenders and possibly a ball winning midfielder, the first 3 are certainly the most important. A defence that conceded 58 league goals last season and hasn''t been touched this season, De Laet (a loan, who may not be a starter) aside, surely needs to be strengthened for the forthcoming Premier League season. I know a different style of play from last season could potentially ease some of the pressure from the defence, but you have to factor in the increased quality of opposition we will be playing against which would probably nullify any impact a deferent style of play would have on our defence.

 

Relatively speaking we might score a lot of goals for what a newly promoted side would expect, but it could be our defence that is ultimately our downfall.

 

There''s still plenty of time to sign more players and come what may, in Lambert et al I will trust, but if those defensive players don''t arrive before the start of the season, I can''t help but be a little worried.

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The league doesn''t kick off for well over a month. Once it does, we still have a couple of games to see where our weaknesses lie. Chill out.

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The 1 more he referred to will almost certainly be a defender. I dunno if he will get a keeper in - I have a feeling he thinks Ruddy is good enough and maybe doesn''t want to spend on a backup that is often not needed.

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Not sure we need a keeper and if we do it''s only as cover so not too big a deal if we don''t get one in (provided Ruddy doesn''t get him himself injured long term). Barnett will be almost like a new signing as he only played half the season. We have plenty of cover at left back, 4 players comfortable at centre back, RB ok maybe some cover for Martin would be nice, but we won''t be bringing in anyone to challenge for a starting place there.

A lot of the reason we conceded a lot was the way that we played, when you are as committed to attacking as we were you are always going to be caught on the break, sure some of the goals were due to defensive errors, but I think the players we have now are up to the challenge.

I do think a ball winning midfielder would be nice, but that seems to be what Johnson was brought in for, maybe Lambert will be able to work his magic on him.

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[quote user="Mahogany"]Not sure we need a keeper and if we do it''s only as cover so not too big a deal if we don''t get one in (provided Ruddy doesn''t get him himself injured long term). Barnett will be almost like a new signing as he only played half the season. We have plenty of cover at left back, 4 players comfortable at centre back, RB ok maybe some cover for Martin would be nice, but we won''t be bringing in anyone to challenge for a starting place there. A lot of the reason we conceded a lot was the way that we played, when you are as committed to attacking as we were you are always going to be caught on the break, sure some of the goals were due to defensive errors, but I think the players we have now are up to the challenge. I do think a ball winning midfielder would be nice, but that seems to be what Johnson was brought in for, maybe Lambert will be able to work his magic on him.[/quote]

Totally agree, alot of the goals against us were due to way we played, from the focus Lamberts made on attacking signings it looks like he''s going to have a real go at teams again, maybe accepting the fact we get a few hammerings along the way. Still think we need another centre back, just to keep it competitive and fully cover injurys and would like to see a experienced keeper in as cover. Not especially worried though and cant see we really need 4 more players.

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[quote user="Mahogany"]Not sure we need a keeper and if we do it''s only as cover so not too big a deal if we don''t get one in (provided Ruddy doesn''t get him himself injured long term).

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

And if Ruddy did get injured on September 1st then we might well be stuck with only Rudd and Steer until  January, since we can''t do ordinary loans deals, and it is highly questionable whether the PL would allow us to get in another keeper on an emergency loan when we have decided to go with just three. And with two of the three having a combined age of 38 and a total of four league starts. The argument would be that if we had got into a goalkeeping crisis then it was of our own making.

 

Leaving aside the question of whether Ruddy is any good, we need another experienced keeper, and then at least one of Rudd or Steer can be loaned out.

 

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Yeah, an experience back up would be nice, but nothing to panic about at this point.

Maybe Lambert is going to gamble on Ruddy saying fit therefore leaving an extra spot in the 25 for an outfield player. Rudd has always looked good when I''ve seen him, sure its a big ask for such a young guy but I wouldn''t mind him coming in for a game or 2 if Ruddy gets suspended, a long term injury would be another matter, but what are the chances of that...

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I''ve said it before and I''ll say it again.  Several of us remember the debacle of Gunn''s injury and lack of cover.  Circumstance are poles apart, but in principle could be very similar.  Lack of cover could cost us.

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[quote user="Mahogany"]Yeah, an experience back up would be nice, but nothing to panic about at this point.

Maybe Lambert is going to gamble on Ruddy saying fit therefore leaving an extra spot in the 25 for an outfield player. Rudd has always looked good when I''ve seen him, sure its a big ask for such a young guy but I wouldn''t mind him coming in for a game or 2 if Ruddy gets suspended, a long term injury would be another matter, but what are the chances of that...[/quote]What were the chances of Gunn breaking his leg when we were top half, and going on to get relegated?

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Actually, what is the rule about ''squad of 25'' regarding injuries? - presumably you can replace them (as Wolves presumably did with Vokes last season?)....but does it not make it possible that you can re-jig elements of your squad by the back door?

Actually, the benefit of Rudd/Steer is that they are under 21, so wouldn''t need to be named in the squad (think that is right?) and we could get away with only naming 1 keeper in the 25 (thereby increasing outfield squad options). Even so, it may be sensible to get someone experienced in and let Steer out on loan with decent recall terms - but imo it isn''t an out and out necessity.

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Signing more than 10 players is pretty steep, 7-8 is about right i think. Strengthen the squad with more quality to cope with the demands of premiership football. Maybe one more defender as we seem a bit short of cover there. I am not worried by our defence, in terms of quality individually none of our defenders are bad at all, its more down to the style of football we play that leads to a few too many goals being conceded. I think we''ll set up with a tad more caution next season which will see us having a better defensive record as a result.

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[quote user="SPANGLES"][quote user="Mahogany"]Yeah, an experience back up would be nice, but nothing to panic about at this point. Maybe Lambert is going to gamble on Ruddy saying fit therefore leaving an extra spot in the 25 for an outfield player. Rudd has always looked good when I''ve seen him, sure its a big ask for such a young guy but I wouldn''t mind him coming in for a game or 2 if Ruddy gets suspended, a long term injury would be another matter, but what are the chances of that...[/quote]

What were the chances of Gunn breaking his leg when we were top half, and going on to get relegated?
[/quote]

---

Precisely. And it''s not as if goalkeeper is the safest position. Of course back then we could have signed someone; it was just that Chase seemed to assume or gamble that we were already safe. Now the chances are we wouldn''t be allowed to get anyone in. There have been cases of a dispensation for clubs, but only when they have been able to show they had initially covered the position adequately and then got hit by injuries plural. Man City, for example, had at least four keepers on their books but then lost both Shay Given and Stuart Taylor (his very experienced deputy) to injury and couldn''t get Hart back from loan, and so were allowed to sign Fulop from Sunderland.

 

If we went with only Ruddy, Rudd and Steer and then lost Ruddy to a long-term injury we could hardly make the same argument, although I am sure we would want to.

 

 

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It must be the case, because so many posters on here make the point, but I cannot understand the constant mention of our need for another central defender.

 

On paper, we have Ward, Whitbread, Barnett and DeLaet, so the numbers are there. Apparently, Tierney can fill in thereas well?

 

Are posters saying that these are not quite good enough for next season? My disadvantage is that, apart from TV games, I have not seen the team play since last Christmas. The first three seemed pretty useful to me, especially Barnett, and DeLaet seems a very good loan signing.

 

Is the wish for another centre half brought about by our "goals against" column last season, which may or may not have resulted from our emphasis upon attack, or are these players genuine weak links?

 

If the latter is the case, then the O/P has a point.

 

I suppose the same question could be asked of Ruddy,  who, whilst distinguishing himself on occasions last season, does not fill me with total confidence.

 

 

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I think there''s a double need for a gk, it''s not just about having some experienced cover in case of injury although that is important, but also Rudd is at an age where he needs to see some real competitive matches so he can develop and so we can really see if he''s going to be our next number 1.

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to be honest I would feel much more comfortable with another centre half a goalkeeper and a move for Pacheco on loan if possible.

I do think you need some genuine class in your team, if hoolahan gets injured then can bennett and pilkington have his effect or will they be like the guy from wycombe at blackpool, so close but not quite there.

Yes we don''t know till they play but I would want Pacheco if possible, a solid centre back is needed who can really lead and shout out orders. Goalkepper, well I have siad before Maik Taylor and Marcus H''men are avialable. Goalkeepers win you as many points as strikers and I am a fan of Rudd and Steer but I do think a year contract to one of these two is what we need to do.

So yes three signings and I feel we will have a solid team. Ok january is an option, but we did that last time. You need to get the team in place as early as possible, as lambert has done but I hope we can plug these holes.

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What''s the rule regarding free transfers? Does the window for signing them close at the same time as for normal signings?

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Panicking! You my son need to get a grip. I like the enthusiasm but surely panicking is a step too far. i reckon mildly concerned fits the bill here. your bp will be through the roof come xmas. you need to chill out buddy.

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We should panic, because we shall meet some good attacks over the next few months - quick and full of skills.

But only slightly-

PL has recognised the need for more pace, hence De Laet and PL''s comments about his pace. (Barnett, we know, is quick.) He also suggested that his next signing, if it happens, will be a defender.

We shall not need our full backs to "bomb forward" quite so much. We now have two very good wide players in Bennett and Pilkington. The back line should consist of four defenders, rather than two very exposed CBs. In Johnson B. we have more bite in our midfield.

I am a litle concerned, because some, if not most premiership teams are quick on the break and apart from Barnett and De Laet our defenders are not particularly quick.

One final point is that the more players we sign, the more difficult it will be to integrate them into a squad which feels confident and has momentum.

If PL picks five or six new players early on, we could have the problem of bedding down.

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Norfolkbroadslim is one poster who makes considered posts on here and is SLIGHTLY panicky...and he is correct. I am excited by next season like the rest of us, the fact that a Lambert team never gives up.....but the defence will be on the back foot at least 50% of each game and will be up against Rooney, Defoe, Van Persie, Drogba, even Crouch and another brilliant 20+ players who have been bought at the top of their game for 20m+ each typically. Even one of the players from the top 8 have been bought for more than the cost of our whole team! There will be a difference in class and we need enough players to hold our own. I hope we get a GK and defender at least. Look at Bruce he has bought early and 10 signed.....sure he has more dosh. But who here would not have been delighted to have either wes brown or john o''shea at the back with tons of experience?!

Otbc.

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[quote user="Mahogany"]What''s the rule regarding free transfers? Does the window for signing them close at the same time as for normal signings?[/quote]

 

Yes. The fact that it might be a free transfer is irrelevant. As I understand it (thanks to helpful confirmation from Joanna Grey) once the transfer window closes on August 31st (or that weekend if it''s put back so it closes on a Sunday) then PL clubs cannot bring in any players until the January window. And after that window closes they cannot bring in players until the summer.

 

They can recall players who have been named in their squad(s) and who have been loaned out, so Wolves were able to take back Vokes, for example, in April. But not new players.

 

They can, in a supposed crisis, apply for an emergency loan, but there is no guarantee that would be granted. The club would need to show they had been adequately covered in the particular position (say, goalkeeper) and had then suffered an exceptional spate of injuries.

 

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I''m getting a little bit concerned as well. I think we need two players. We definitely need a very good centre back who will partner either Whitbread of Barnett at the back. Tierney and R Martin will definitely get there chances next year. With another centre back I think defensively we look strong. The second signing I would make is another goalkeeper. I can imagine there will be an adequate free transfer who would be good and wouldn''t be expensive. I wouldn''t mind seeing another ball winning centre midfielder. I''d sign another 3 if I had the chance, but 2 is definitely needed.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Mahogany"]What''s the rule regarding free transfers? Does the window for signing them close at the same time as for normal signings?[/quote]

 

Yes. The fact that it might be a free transfer is irrelevant. As I understand it (thanks to helpful confirmation from Joanna Grey) once the transfer window closes on August 31st (or that weekend if it''s put back so it closes on a Sunday) then PL clubs cannot bring in any players until the January window. And after that window closes they cannot bring in players until the summer.

 

They can recall players who have been named in their squad(s) and who have been loaned out, so Wolves were able to take back Vokes, for example, in April. But not new players.

 

They can, in a supposed crisis, apply for an emergency loan, but there is no guarantee that would be granted. The club would need to show they had been adequately covered in the particular position (say, goalkeeper) and had then suffered an exceptional spate of injuries.

 

[/quote]

 

Are you sure that players who are out of contract cannot be brought in at any time? If so, I''m sure the European employment laws would have something to say about it.

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At a guess I would say you can sign them, but you can''t register them until the window opens again. Though I have no idea if that is true.

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[quote user="yellow blood"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Mahogany"]What''s the rule regarding free transfers? Does the window for signing them close at the same time as for normal signings?[/quote]

 

Yes. The fact that it might be a free transfer is irrelevant. As I understand it (thanks to helpful confirmation from Joanna Grey) once the transfer window closes on August 31st (or that weekend if it''s put back so it closes on a Sunday) then PL clubs cannot bring in any players until the January window. And after that window closes they cannot bring in players until the summer.

 

They can recall players who have been named in their squad(s) and who have been loaned out, so Wolves were able to take back Vokes, for example, in April. But not new players.

 

They can, in a supposed crisis, apply for an emergency loan, but there is no guarantee that would be granted. The club would need to show they had been adequately covered in the particular position (say, goalkeeper) and had then suffered an exceptional spate of injuries.

 

[/quote]

 

Are you sure that players who are out of contract cannot be brought in at any time? If so, I''m sure the European employment laws would have something to say about it.

[/quote]

 

Mahogany was referring to free transfers rather than out of contract transfers. However, having read again the PL rule book, there does not seem to be any special allowance for out of contract players be be signed outside the windows. Essentially all transfers in are banned unless you can plead exceptional circumstances, as in the case of a goalkeeping crisis.

 

I take your comment about employment law and what might be seen as restraint of trade, and someone might want to test that some day, or perhaps they already have, and failed. I suspect the point is that since European contracts at least seem to run roughly from July to July then anyone out of contract in, say, November, would already have been out of contract in August and could have been signed then.

 

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="yellow blood"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Mahogany"]What''s the rule regarding free transfers? Does the window for signing them close at the same time as for normal signings?[/quote]

 

Yes. The fact that it might be a free transfer is irrelevant. As I understand it (thanks to helpful confirmation from Joanna Grey) once the transfer window closes on August 31st (or that weekend if it''s put back so it closes on a Sunday) then PL clubs cannot bring in any players until the January window. And after that window closes they cannot bring in players until the summer.

 

They can recall players who have been named in their squad(s) and who have been loaned out, so Wolves were able to take back Vokes, for example, in April. But not new players.

 

They can, in a supposed crisis, apply for an emergency loan, but there is no guarantee that would be granted. The club would need to show they had been adequately covered in the particular position (say, goalkeeper) and had then suffered an exceptional spate of injuries.

 

[/quote]

 

Are you sure that players who are out of contract cannot be brought in at any time? If so, I''m sure the European employment laws would have something to say about it.

[/quote]

 

Mahogany was referring to free transfers rather than out of contract transfers. However, having read again the PL rule book, there does not seem to be any special allowance for out of contract players be be signed outside the windows. Essentially all transfers in are banned unless you can plead exceptional circumstances, as in the case of a goalkeeping crisis.

 

I take your comment about employment law and what might be seen as restraint of trade, and someone might want to test that some day, or perhaps they already have, and failed. I suspect the point is that since European contracts at least seem to run roughly from July to July then anyone out of contract in, say, November, would already have been out of contract in August and could have been signed then.

 

[/quote]

There''s a bit in this http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city-fc/lambert_plays_the_numbers_game_1_957957 but it''s still not clear to me [:)]

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[quote user="yellow blood"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="yellow blood"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Mahogany"]What''s the rule regarding free transfers? Does the window for signing them close at the same time as for normal signings?[/quote]

 

Yes. The fact that it might be a free transfer is irrelevant. As I understand it (thanks to helpful confirmation from Joanna Grey) once the transfer window closes on August 31st (or that weekend if it''s put back so it closes on a Sunday) then PL clubs cannot bring in any players until the January window. And after that window closes they cannot bring in players until the summer.

 

They can recall players who have been named in their squad(s) and who have been loaned out, so Wolves were able to take back Vokes, for example, in April. But not new players.

 

They can, in a supposed crisis, apply for an emergency loan, but there is no guarantee that would be granted. The club would need to show they had been adequately covered in the particular position (say, goalkeeper) and had then suffered an exceptional spate of injuries.

 

[/quote]

 

Are you sure that players who are out of contract cannot be brought in at any time? If so, I''m sure the European employment laws would have something to say about it.

[/quote]

 

Mahogany was referring to free transfers rather than out of contract transfers. However, having read again the PL rule book, there does not seem to be any special allowance for out of contract players be be signed outside the windows. Essentially all transfers in are banned unless you can plead exceptional circumstances, as in the case of a goalkeeping crisis.

 

I take your comment about employment law and what might be seen as restraint of trade, and someone might want to test that some day, or perhaps they already have, and failed. I suspect the point is that since European contracts at least seem to run roughly from July to July then anyone out of contract in, say, November, would already have been out of contract in August and could have been signed then.

 

[/quote]

There''s a bit in this http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city-fc/lambert_plays_the_numbers_game_1_957957 but it''s still not clear to me [:)]

[/quote]

 

---

 

Thanks for that Yellow Blood. That says you CAN add free agents (as opposed to free transfers) outside the window but only if you haven''t named a full 25-man squad, and delving further I now see that is right.

 

However I strongly doubt we would gamble on trying to use that get-out to try to find, say, a goalkeeper in an emergency, assuming we had named fewer than 25 players to start with.

 

And as far as exceptional circumstances are concerned, the PL gives as an example having two keepers injured out of three. In that case a club "may" - only "may" - be allowed to bring in someone else. But that strongly suggests that if we went only with the three we have and got one injured, then the PL would not regard that as exceptional.

 

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