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[quote user="paul moy"]Save your money. Top 10 is well beyong the capability of our squad.[/quote]

ye of little faith, Jesus Christ may have walked on water, but PL can levitate :-)

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[quote user="paul moy"]Save your money. Top 10 is well beyong the capability of our squad.[/quote]

That is totally unlike you, Mr Positive, so I am guessing that you have got at least £10 on us ending up in the top 3!!! [:D]

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[quote user="mikewalker"][quote user="Bobert"]

Who cares unless its part of a general discussion about which three teams will be at the bottom of the table at the end of the season and my suggestions are: QPR, Wigan and West Brom.

I expect Norwich to finish in the top half of the table and I have put money where my mouth is but to continue to be successful I think we need another 8,000 seats at Carrow and we can do that by building a second tier on the City Stand. There after success will only continue with a new ground built on the South side of the City to hold 55,000.

The plans need to be laid now.. I always remember Colin Chapman having a 50 year plan for Lotus and we need a twenty year plan for NCFC. at least.Hopefully our Chairman has the experiance and ability to lay such a plan.

[/quote]

 

I sourced and posted the blueprints for the 58,000 expansion of Carrow Road about a fortnight ago lid. Keep up!

 

[/quote]NO!! Do we really want to be playing in a half-empty stadium every home game? A 35k capacity will be pretty well big enough for any big game, but it will also be full enough during the run of the mill games to retain the atmosphere.Remember, we never totally filled the ground for a league game when it held over 40k. I believe the biggest ever league attendance was about 37k for the relegation decider against Palace in 1973 (the old ''uns will probably correct me on this if I am wrong).

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I know it''s not 100% valid but at the open top bus parade there were 40,000 fans.

I know it''s easier because it''s local etc. But people like me and my family who go to games regularly couldn''t make that because it was on a weekday evening. I am sure there were more people in a similar situation which could have brung a lot more to that.

So you could be looking at a lot more then 40,000 although I know it isn''t a game. But I would be confident of selling out 45k stadium, maybe even more.

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[quote user="Lord Horn"]

[quote user="paul moy"]Save your money. Top 10 is well beyong the capability of our squad.[/quote]

That is totally unlike you, Mr Positive, so I am guessing that you have got at least £10 on us ending up in the top 3!!! [:D]

[/quote]

I was Mr Positive until I realised that we are probably selling one of our best potential goalscorers. Even then, top 10 is realistically beyond us. [:D]

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[quote user="Power Hamster"][quote user="mikewalker"][quote user="Bobert"]

Who cares unless its part of a general discussion about which three teams will be at the bottom of the table at the end of the season and my suggestions are: QPR, Wigan and West Brom.

I expect Norwich to finish in the top half of the table and I have put money where my mouth is but to continue to be successful I think we need another 8,000 seats at Carrow and we can do that by building a second tier on the City Stand. There after success will only continue with a new ground built on the South side of the City to hold 55,000.

The plans need to be laid now.. I always remember Colin Chapman having a 50 year plan for Lotus and we need a twenty year plan for NCFC. at least.Hopefully our Chairman has the experiance and ability to lay such a plan.

[/quote]

 

I sourced and posted the blueprints for the 58,000 expansion of Carrow Road about a fortnight ago lid. Keep up!

 

[/quote]NO!! Do we really want to be playing in a half-empty stadium every home game? A 35k capacity will be pretty well big enough for any big game, but it will also be full enough during the run of the mill games to retain the atmosphere.Remember, we never totally filled the ground for a league game when it held over 40k. I believe the biggest ever league attendance was about 37k for the relegation decider against Palace in 1973 (the old ''uns will probably correct me on this if I am wrong).[/quote]As an old''un, allow me to correct you. The Palace gate back in 1973 was 36,668.The biggest ever league gate was for a Div 3 South match in 1948, 37,863.Even allowing for the increase in population I would suggest that expecting regular gates of around 40k is just not possible in the forseeable future. Our highest ever average gate was back in 1972/73 when the figure was 28,652. The capacity at that time was 40k+.

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"Remember, we never totally filled the ground for a league game when it held over 40k. I believe the biggest ever league attendance was about 37k for the relegation decider against Palace in 1973 (the old ''uns will probably correct me on this if I am wrong)."

I doubt if we could have got 40,000 into the ground, Either the figure quoted was ''wrong'' or it was just the Barclay but my recollections of the Palace game was scrambling along the back of the Barclay after getting in the ground at the corner between the main stand and trying for ages to get into the first door. It was absolutely heaving.

The problem with attendances will be dealt with by adjusting the price to maximise return against demand ie charge enough to keep a slight waiting list . Simply choke of demand by raising the prices That way your overall take is at it''s highest irrespective of numbers.

Before too much squeaking takes place please bear in mind that response happens pretty much everywhere else.

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[quote user="City1st"]"Remember, we never totally filled the ground for a league game when it held over 40k. I believe the biggest ever league attendance was about 37k for the relegation decider against Palace in 1973 (the old ''uns will probably correct me on this if I am wrong)."

I doubt if we could have got 40,000 into the ground, Either the figure quoted was ''wrong'' or it was just the Barclay but my recollections of the Palace game was scrambling along the back of the Barclay after getting in the ground at the corner between the main stand and trying for ages to get into the first door. It was absolutely heaving.

The problem with attendances will be dealt with by adjusting the price to maximise return against demand ie charge enough to keep a slight waiting list . Simply choke of demand by raising the prices That way your overall take is at it''s highest irrespective of numbers.

Before too much squeaking takes place please bear in mind that response happens pretty much everywhere else.[/quote]I was in the South stand for the record ever attendance (Leicester FA Cup 1963) just under 44K. There must have been thousands who didn''t see much of the match.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Power Hamster"][quote user="mikewalker"][quote user="Bobert"]

Who cares unless its part of a general discussion about which three teams will be at the bottom of the table at the end of the season and my suggestions are: QPR, Wigan and West Brom.

I expect Norwich to finish in the top half of the table and I have put money where my mouth is but to continue to be successful I think we need another 8,000 seats at Carrow and we can do that by building a second tier on the City Stand. There after success will only continue with a new ground built on the South side of the City to hold 55,000.

The plans need to be laid now.. I always remember Colin Chapman having a 50 year plan for Lotus and we need a twenty year plan for NCFC. at least.Hopefully our Chairman has the experiance and ability to lay such a plan.

[/quote]

 

I sourced and posted the blueprints for the 58,000 expansion of Carrow Road about a fortnight ago lid. Keep up!

 

[/quote]NO!! Do we really want to be playing in a half-empty stadium every home game? A 35k capacity will be pretty well big enough for any big game, but it will also be full enough during the run of the mill games to retain the atmosphere.Remember, we never totally filled the ground for a league game when it held over 40k. I believe the biggest ever league attendance was about 37k for the relegation decider against Palace in 1973 (the old ''uns will probably correct me on this if I am wrong).[/quote]As an old''un, allow me to correct you. The Palace gate back in 1973 was 36,668.The biggest ever league gate was for a Div 3 South match in 1948, 37,863.Even allowing for the increase in population I would suggest that expecting regular gates of around 40k is just not possible in the forseeable future. Our highest ever average gate was back in 1972/73 when the figure was 28,652. The capacity at that time was 40k+.[/quote]Thanks for the correction, Ricardo. Was that record league gate for the visit of Notts County, when they had Tommy Lawton in their team, by any chance? It was before my time, but I read recently about the crowds that flocked to see England''s centre forward play in the Third Division.

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That is correct, Power Hamster. It was indeed the visit of Notts Co and the great Tommy Lawton. I was not quite 3yrs old at the time so have no personal memory but my father told me about it in later years. He always said that Lawton was the best centre forward he had ever seen. He could head a ball harder than most people could kick it and that was the old heavy leather ball with laces!I wonder how much Lawton would be worth today?

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There is an independent guy by the Vauxhall Tavern who was recomended to me by a guy behind the counter in one of the chains. ''Tis said he will accept a bet on any sporting event and he gave me very acceptable odds during the week we were promoted

55,000 is for the future but for the doubters remember that there is land behind Tesco at Harford Bridges that is on the railway line, on the Southern Ring Road, within 1 mile of Carrow Road and offers parking for huge numbers of cars.

For the guy who has never seen a really modern stadium in Europe or North America I tell you the facilities and stadium views are mouth watering and if Liverpool FC dreams of a new stadium why not us...... and yes I know how to put 20 year and 50 year plans together as that is one of the things, just one of the things I did for a living..

 

 

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Just announced that Bothroyd and Dyer have signed. Yes indeed .....''sicknote'' Kieren Dyer.   [:D]   

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I''m sure eventually the ground capacity at Carrow Road can be and will be increased to between 35-45,000 but not 55,000!

The City stand will be knocked down and replaced by a much bigger and better version!

An upper tier can be put on the Jarold stand despite many saying it can''t which is the urban myth of the stand!

The option to replace both the Barclay and River end stands with bigger and better versions is possible

The Jarold stand can be extended round to the Hotel!

The club are doing it right by increasing capacity slowly but surely which means the club is not putting itself at risk of ruin and ensuring the demand for tickets remains hungry!

Personnally I hope that a minimum 35,000 capacity is achieved and if needs be then further capacity added on to that when the club deem it right ot do so!

Carrow Road is the perfect place for Norwich City to play with it being not far from the bypass, the train station and the City centre. Moving to a souless bowl out of the City would kill the great atmosphere of the club. It must NEVER happen. Carrow Road can be made as big as we''ll ever need it to be!

Our massive surge in crowds since the Worthy revolution of 10 years ago and the great crowd figures being maintained indicates that we need a bigger home ground and to fulfill the clubs potential its a neccesity. Those who say otherwise are wrong!

As for QPR, the way they''ve been run by their clueless owners makes me think that things will go t its up there, quite possibly next season!

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]An upper tier can be put on the Jarold stand despite many saying it can''t which is the urban myth of the stand! [/quote]And you know that how?The question about the Jarrold Stand was brought up on the message board of the main site a few years back and Joe Ferrari (Head of Media) said he would look into it, he came back a few days later and said that the original idea was to have the foundations deep enough to take a second tier but it was decided to have shallower foundations to save money. The City stand though was built with foundations to take a second tier. I''m not saying it is impossible to add a second tier to the Jarrold Stand but the official club line was/is the foundations aren''t in place for it to be straightforward.

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The main stand at Ibrox home of Glasgow Rangers was built in the late 1920''s. A new third tier was added to this stand in the 1990''s/2000''s.

Theirs no way on this earth that when the stand was built in the 1920''s it was designed to accomodate another tier on top of it built 70 years later!

This indicates that new tiers can be put onto stands that haven''t had provisions to do so, albeit will be a very expensive exercise!

I have asked high ranking officials about increasing the Jarold stands capacity by putting a new tier on top and while they didn''t say yes you can, or no you can''t, they indicated the cost of doing something like that would be prohibitive!

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That wasn''t what you said in your original post though was it.

When you say "An upper tier can be put on the Jarold stand despite many saying it can''t which is the urban myth of the stand!" that implies that you can take the roof off and just plonk another tier on.

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I also thought that the official line was that the City Stand has provisions in place for a second tier to be built on top. If the Jarrold stand were to be extended upwards and backwards that would be a helluva big stand wouldn''t it.

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Well I don''t see why a new stadium built within a mile of Carrow Road should be "a souless bowl out of the City". When Queen Elizabeth I visited Norwich all the citizens walked and rode to greet her at Harford Bridges and that is where I would suggest the new stadium is built. We really do not need a mishmash of expensive add-ons. We need a stadium to match a successful team and a "Fine City".

The facilities at Carrow are pathetic for most of the spectators. The toilets in the Barclay are akin to cow sheds with streams of other men''s urine passing inches from your pants as you stand there. There is nothing at boys level so the floor in the stalls where the one or two toilet bowls are is always wet.Goodness knows what it is like for the ladies but the closets must be inadequet as there are always queues of ladies standing in the main concourse before the match and at half time.

Over cooked pies and pasties are handed out in grubby bits of paper with plastic cups which have been stored where? One has to assume that the mice and rats have a field day, or more likely night, after a match feeding on the remains of food dropped during a game and not cleared until the next day. A minimum of closed circuit TVs bolted high up on walls, old age pensioners being ferried in service lifts that are used also for trollys, and dustbins by canteen staff, the dangerously steep staircases, the grubby carpets, where there are any, the lack of parking for the disabled, the list is endless. We need a 22nd Century Stadium to be the pride of Anglia and the whole country.

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"Our massive surge in crowds since the Worthy revolution of 10 years ago and the great crowd figures being maintained indicates that we need a bigger home ground "

old tosh

We need to simply adjust the price to reflect the demand, as we did when the demand was much lower - only this time it will be in the other direction.

The idea that the club will want to lose millions in income from the loss of part of the ground when building work has to be carried out, is ludicrous. Ludicrous when the above is a far simpler and a more effective means of dealing with rising demand.

The club previously had stated that it costs between £2000 and £3000 per seat to build a stand. Factor in the loss of income from the disruption caused by building the stand and you could be looking at a minimum of 6 years to recoup the costs, never mind showing any increase in revenue. A period of time where the current level of demand could not be guranteed and the club might be left servicing another debt ,without the commiserate income being generated.

Raise the ticket prices by 20% say, and you have an almost instant revenue increase wth not much more effort involved that a few taps on the keyboard.

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[quote user="City1st"]"Our massive surge in crowds since the Worthy revolution of 10 years ago and the great crowd figures being maintained indicates that we need a bigger home ground "

old tosh

We need to simply adjust the price to reflect the demand, as we did when the demand was much lower - only this time it will be in the other direction.

The idea that the club will want to lose millions in income from the loss of part of the ground when building work has to be carried out, is ludicrous. Ludicrous when the above is a far simpler and a more effective means of dealing with rising demand.

The club previously had stated that it costs between £2000 and £3000 per seat to build a stand. Factor in the loss of income from the disruption caused by building the stand and you could be looking at a minimum of 6 years to recoup the costs, never mind showing any increase in revenue. A period of time where the current level of demand could not be guranteed and the club might be left servicing another debt ,without the commiserate income being generated.

Raise the ticket prices by 20% say, and you have an almost instant revenue increase wth not much more effort involved that a few taps on the keyboard.[/quote]''What a load of old tosh...''With moderate fear of the baptism of fire i''m likely to receive in response to this, from a poster certainly not unknown for being ''heated'', i do see a severe issue with that - not least considering the model of club we purport (and often successfully manage) to be. Not itself the symptom of primary concern to me, is a blatant disregard of the ''family'' image. I risk sounding cliche''d, but the meaning of it is of unequivocal importance and justification for the sport itself; and we''d be deluded as fanatics to think little of it with respect to sports participation in the community.In a financial sense there is of course a more immediate concern however. Rising ticket prices in the midst of excessive demand may always seem a logical short term strategy; but this will inevitably cause long term damage. For a club of our size, by making such a change, we could only hope to of consolidated current numbers of attendance in the next 5 or 4 years.It mitigates communal activity of all branches within the club in it''s privileged exclusivity, and will dislodge or ward off any supporter outside of the inner fanatical or ''financially capable'' orientated sphere.Simply rising ticket prises in the midst of high demand is essentially a perilous endeavour in the long run, and i''d consider it one of the biggest shames of the last decade to befall our club if we were to emulate the likes of QPR in such a way.As a long term strategy it is so fundamentally flawed we''d be not but shortsighted fools to so much as consider it.

Any remnant of a solution that i can detect is that it is up to the club to estimate the fanbase, and the turnout we can expect, and then gauge the projected success and popularity of the club in order to justify the cost of a commitment to an extension. What is sure is that if demand is sustained we''ll have to extend capacity at some point in the relatively near future.I''m sure however that the club are well enough acquainted with the facts to make the most sensible decision with regard to such a move, and we''d all best let rest for now, and it will take 2 years of Premier League football at the very least before such notions even begin to enter the equation.

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Sadly for all your ramblings, evidence points against you.

Check the stuff put up in another thread about the ''meal deals'' on offer in the Barclay, check the ticket privces for awau games, check the prices that went up for food and drinkl at the beginning of last season.

I''m sure, like ''the boy on the burning deck'' you will continue to bleat away in your delusions, oblivious to the reality of the world around you. Prices are now far far more responsive to demand. Unfortunately being unable to grasp this might happen with NCFC appear you therefore are stuck in some ridiculous belief that the prices could never be reduced again either (something that is, as I pointed out, far easier to do than to commit to long term debt repayment based on a very uncertain income stream).

Currently most season ticket holders are paying a price not much different to what they were paying in League 1. If you think that price is going to remain on or around that figure if we were to stay in the Premier League (high demand) then you are more out of touch with reality than your rambling post would suggest.

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[quote user="Harry"]That wasn''t what you said in your original post though was it.

When you say "An upper tier can be put on the Jarold stand despite many saying it can''t which is the urban myth of the stand!" that implies that you can take the roof off and just plonk another tier on.
[/quote]

I was on the understanding from the club, when the Jarrold was built, they opted for an 8,000 seater with the foundations for a 12,000 in the future.

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[quote user="City1st"]Sadly for all your ramblings, evidence points against you.

Check the stuff put up in another thread about the ''meal deals'' on offer in the Barclay, check the ticket privces for awau games, check the prices that went up for food and drinkl at the beginning of last season.

I''m sure, like ''the boy on the burning deck'' you will continue to bleat away in your delusions, oblivious to the reality of the world around you. Prices are now far far more responsive to demand. Unfortunately being unable to grasp this might happen with NCFC appear you therefore are stuck in some ridiculous belief that the prices could never be reduced again either (something that is, as I pointed out, far easier to do than to commit to long term debt repayment based on a very uncertain income stream).

Currently most season ticket holders are paying a price not much different to what they were paying in League 1. If you think that price is going to remain on or around that figure if we were to stay in the Premier League (high demand) then you are more out of touch with reality than your rambling post would suggest.[/quote]Keep to posting on Ipswich City1st, because otherwise you''re really not worth the ****ing time.You''re an idiot that seems to find more substance in his deranged insults than in his facts, and that alone is not lost on many. If you are still yet to cotton on to that particular fact you''re a far bigger fool than i first thought.

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[quote user="Legend Iwan"]Capitalism, man''s greatest creation.[/quote]

... and far better than the alternative that has left this country in such a mess.  

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[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]Capitalism, man''s greatest creation.[/quote]

... and far better than the alternative that has left this country in such a mess.  

[/quote]Urm paul... we live and have been living in a Capitalist nation for getting on for 100 years. Its pretty amusing given that the entire banking crisis is a result of the abuse of the capitalism, what did you think we were some sort of communist state!?

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[quote user="birchfest"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]Capitalism, man''s greatest creation.[/quote]

... and far better than the alternative that has left this country in such a mess.  

[/quote]Urm paul... we live and have been living in a Capitalist nation for getting on for 100 years. Its pretty amusing given that the entire banking crisis is a result of the abuse of the capitalism, what did you think we were some sort of communist state!?[/quote]Whilst I think it may be a bit far to call our current welfare system a "communist" system, the redistribution of wealth that it aims to achieve is a socialist concession of communism that can coincide within a capitalist framework.

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I think ticket prices are a sensitive issue. There was no doubt that up until recently, the club''s pricing strategy whilst admirable was out of date and needed to be changed in order for us to stay competive with other clubs. The historical concessions some supporters in the Jarrold were receiving for some of the best views in the ground were absolutely ridiculous. But you must also strike a balance. I would be very disappointed if young people, many of whom are feeling in the pinch in the current economic climate, were priced out of coming to Carrow Road. The liklihood is that most people on the board caught the Norwich "bug" when they were young. Hence you will always need that younger generation of fan to keep the club alive. So I dont think the club can afford to be short termist.

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[quote user="birchfest"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]Capitalism, man''s greatest creation.[/quote]

... and far better than the alternative that has left this country in such a mess.  

[/quote]

Urm paul... we live and have been living in a Capitalist nation for getting on for 100 years. Its pretty amusing given that the entire banking crisis is a result of the abuse of the capitalism, what did you think we were some sort of communist state!?
[/quote]

We have a mixture of Capitalism and socialism. Unfortunately the socialism side with regard to spending has been out of control since 1997. Thus we are spending 400 million pounds a day more than we are receiving in taxes and much of that is on non-jobs and crazy incentives for people not to work. 

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