Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
Bing Bang

Defence worries

Recommended Posts

I''ve been scanning through a lot of posts and i get the impression people are happy with the defence if the season was to start tomorrow. I am shocked at this to be honest because unless we invest heavily on at least one strong center back i think we have very little chance of staying in the division.

Elliot ward is not going to be good enough at this level IMO. Whitbread showed promise last season but i still doubt his ability at premier league level. Barnnett for me is our best defender and he was deemed not good enough at WBA.

Not many people have commented on our left back situation but i feel this is the weakest part of the team. Drury obviously isn''t the player he once was and Tierney is going to really struggle against many premier league right wingers as i dont rate him that highly.

Happy at right back, martins always improving and de laaet provides good competition for that position.

I know there is a few threads talking bout potential defender transfers i.e Bagheera and mills but i have seen so many people saying Lamberts only got 2/3 targets left and they are a goalkeeper and center midfield/striker etc etc.

Our defensive record last season was pretty poor considering we finished second and we wont be scoring as many goals this season obviously. Really want to see at least 1 preferrebly 2 defenders bought before the start of the season if we are to have a realistic chance of staying up. Im certain Lambert knows this anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well I too don''t like Ward but I am confident with Whitbread and Barnett.  I think one experienced centre back who can be a real leader and organise us properly at the back and we are good.  If we don''t get this player then I will be concerened but if we do and I''m sure Lambert will buy someone like this then I will be pretty happy with our defensive situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Norwich fans are some of the worst for patience. We''re not even in July yet. Let''s wait and see what happens by August before writing us off. Ok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="TheGoogler"]Norwich fans are some of the worst for patience. We''re not even in July yet. Let''s wait and see what happens by August before writing us off. Ok?[/quote]

Yeah i agree with you. i am just pointing out that most people seem happy with the defence now as we have signed de leat.

I am certain Lambert will be bringing in defenders was just curious why people seemed happy with the defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
De Laet can play across the back four and I guess will provide competition/back up for Tierney and to a lesser extent Martin, but I agree with you about needing an experienced CB to play alongside Barnett, who will have improved since he was with WBA first team in the PL.Also, I suspect that PL is looking at playing different formations this year to tighten us up in the middle to provide more cover for the defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now correct me if i am wrong but today is June 18th with 55 days to go before the season kicks off and here we are worrying about the current defensive players on the books.Can i just remind people that back in 2004 Doomcaster and Worthington had yet to pick up the phone and make any calls to managers and agents as Doomcaster told us and i quote " It is no good making enquires with regard to players as they and their agents are laying on the beach at this time of year with their mobile phones switched off".

Do not panic everything will be fine come August 13th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Now correct me if i am wrong but today is June 18th with 55 days to go before the season kicks off and here we are worrying about the current defensive players on the books.Can i just remind people that back in 2004 Doomcaster and Worthington had yet to pick up the phone and make any calls to managers and agents as Doomcaster told us and i quote " It is no good making enquires with regard to players as they and their agents are laying on the beach at this time of year with their mobile phones switched off".

Do not panic everything will be fine come August 13th.

[/quote]

Thanks the reasurance, i hope your right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have faith in Lambert but agree we need to boost our defence and possibly bring in an experienced GK as backup too.

Last season we conceded an average of 1.25 goals a game, playing the likes of Rooney and Tevez and some of the worlds best could easily double that in the Prem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Wallerboi"]

I''ve been scanning through a lot of posts and i get the impression people are happy with the defence if the season was to start tomorrow. I am shocked at this to be honest because unless we invest heavily on at least one strong center back i think we have very little chance of staying in the division.

Elliot ward is not going to be good enough at this level IMO. Whitbread showed promise last season but i still doubt his ability at premier league level. Barnnett for me is our best defender and he was deemed not good enough at WBA.

Not many people have commented on our left back situation but i feel this is the weakest part of the team. Drury obviously isn''t the player he once was and Tierney is going to really struggle against many premier league right wingers as i dont rate him that highly.

Happy at right back, martins always improving and de laaet provides good competition for that position.

I know there is a few threads talking bout potential defender transfers i.e Bagheera and mills but i have seen so many people saying Lamberts only got 2/3 targets left and they are a goalkeeper and center midfield/striker etc etc.

Our defensive record last season was pretty poor considering we finished second and we wont be scoring as many goals this season obviously. Really want to see at least 1 preferrebly 2 defenders bought before the start of the season if we are to have a realistic chance of staying up. Im certain Lambert knows this anyway!

[/quote]

 

I can''t agree with you about Tierney - I think that boy can make the grade.

I wouldn''t worry too much about transfers I think a top rate centre back will be brought in for a high fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, Tierney will kick on again with his devlopment, especially know that he as competition from De Laet. However, I expect that he will not be pushing so far forward as often as he did last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeez...not more of the "Elliott Ward won''t be good enough" rubbish.

 

It is baffling how anyone can say with any real conviction that he''ll be worse than Whitbread or Barnett.

 

Whitbread and Barnett have both made obvious and costly mistakes yet for some reason people seem to turn a blind eye to it but they''re more than happy to try to find some way to cast a shadow over Ward.

 

All three are very good players and all three have had brilliant seasons for us, there is no weak(er) link amongst them and any suggestion that any of those three are a weak link would have very little substance to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Now correct me if i am wrong but today is June 18th with 55 days to go before the season kicks off and here we are worrying about the current defensive players on the books.Can i just remind people that back in 2004 Doomcaster and Worthington had yet to pick up the phone and make any calls to managers and agents as Doomcaster told us and i quote " It is no good making enquires with regard to players as they and their agents are laying on the beach at this time of year with their mobile phones switched off".

Do not panic everything will be fine come August 13th.

[/quote]Somebody each year makes condescending BS remarks like this.  The point is, forget the shiite from ''04, it''s 2011.  And some fans aren''t too convinced with the central defence. I''m not too sure we''ll get another centre half as it goes so we can all wait another 50 odd days as much as we want.Slate me as much as you want for being negative, but a defence that is lacking slightly will be very costly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tierney was fantastic towards the end of the season, if he''d have signed him last summer I reckon he''d be held in as high regard as Martin.

Our defensive problems last season came from the way we played, it left us open to counter attacks and that''s something we''ll need to solve for next season, not sure if that requires major changes to personnel though.

A really tenacious DM could be useful for games where we know we are going to be up against it. Fox is a great player, but he''s more of a deep lying playmaker than a full on defensive midfielder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And we did actually play two Premier Teams last season - QPR (0 goals against) and Swansea (3 goals against), - 3 clean sheets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mahogany"]Tierney was fantastic towards the end of the season, if he''d have signed him last summer I reckon he''d be held in as high regard as Martin.

Our defensive problems last season came from the way we played, it left us open to counter attacks and that''s something we''ll need to solve for next season, not sure if that requires major changes to personnel though.

A really tenacious DM could be useful for games where we know we are going to be up against it. Fox is a great player, but he''s more of a deep lying playmaker than a full on defensive midfielder.[/quote]Even a high quality DM would not make that much difference - more importnatly will be the formation and tactics we adopt to make us less open. This may be why PL has been targetting players with pace, as it would allow us to play deeper and play more of a counter attacking game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spangles - its funny how we have different slants on the written word.

I saw Til''s ''55 day'' comment as more of a ''Don''t panic Mr Mainwaring'' type of comment, not a condescending one.

Why do you not think we will get a centre half in btw? Is it because you know something, or you just feel we/Lambert doesn''t think we will need to add to what we have got? I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think there is a feeling among some fans regarding players like Tierney that as he only came from Colchester a short while ago, he can`t be good enough for the Prem. Yet he was one of our best players the back end of the season, a commited bundle of energy bombing up and down the wing, no defensive errors i can recall, good crossing and even looked a goal threat at times. Now think about the "impact" that costly Prem.pro Konchesky had at Forest.....I know who i`d rather have- Tierney will be fine.

I do however think that no matter who we sign/don`t sign, our defense are inevitably going to made mugs of at times in the season because that is what top strikers can do. I honestly don`t think we can afford much better than we have already, and we have to be patient and supportive with what we`ve got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Completely agree Mr Carrow about Tierney. We will inevitably alos lose our fair share of games, but we must take points off our relaistic competition (e.g, Fulham, Wolves etc) and look to build a bridge head in the division where we can gradually add to the quality of our squad like Stoke and Bolton have. Even if we had a huge transfer war chest, we will not attract marquee signings until they are convinced we are a mid-table side or we let them have relegation clauses such as Demba Ba.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I think we could be stronger at the back realistically until we estlablish ourselves in the Premiership we''ll struggle to get much if any better than we have now!

Anyway too many people look at where we signed players from instead of looking at how they''ve improved while with us and how they performed. For instance the improvement in Russell Martin last season was astounding and he for me had to be one of not the best RB in the Championship. Tierney was very assured as well.

Had we signed Russell Martin from Arsenal and Tierney from another Prem club, people would probably have rather different outlooks on them!

Quite simply if our defence plays at their best then they''ll be able to cope with most of what 12-14 teams in next seasons Premeriship will chuck at us. And I''d say the bottom 6 of the Premiership isn''t much different to the top 6 of the Championship and only QPR were better than us last season!

Its still early days yet and even when the action starts fans will need to stay positive and realistic because it almost certain that we''ll be in the bottom 6 and we''ll lose a lot more games than we''ve been used to of late!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]I think there is a feeling among some fans regarding players like Tierney that as he only came from Colchester a short while ago, he can`t be good enough for the Prem. Yet he was one of our best players the back end of the season, a commited bundle of energy bombing up and down the wing, no defensive errors i can recall, good crossing and even looked a goal threat at times. Now think about the "impact" that costly Prem.pro Konchesky had at Forest.....I know who i`d rather have- Tierney will be fine. I do however think that no matter who we sign/don`t sign, our defense are inevitably going to made mugs of at times in the season because that is what top strikers can do. I honestly don`t think we can afford much better than we have already, and we have to be patient and supportive with what we`ve got.[/quote]

No not at all, coudnt be further from the truth with me before you start all that. I just gave my opinion on the left back situation, i maybe be wrong, i maybe right, only time will tell. I relish the fact Lambert buys plyers from lower leagues and wouldnt want him to change that policy just because we are in the Prem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="crabbycanary"]

Spangles - its funny how we have different slants on the written word.

I saw Til''s ''55 day'' comment as more of a ''Don''t panic Mr Mainwaring'' type of comment, not a condescending one.

Why do you not think we will get a centre half in btw? Is it because you know something, or you just feel we/Lambert doesn''t think we will need to add to what we have got? I

[/quote]Yep that.  In the report concerning De Laet.  It very much gave me the impression that De Laet was here to play centre half, whereas I thought he was predominantly a full back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think we also lost to Blackburn as a prem team last season - 3 more goals there.

When we got promoted last time the general view was our promoted defence was good enough; it was not, we strengthened it but relied for too many games on teh champs defence and ended up conceding 77 goals - simply too many, more than 2 per game.

Malky Flem were superb in the champs, but neither were up to tackling the step up in pace, movement and power. And the Malky/Flem partnership both conceded fewer goals than the current squad and, imo, were far stronger than the centre backs we had in the champs last season. I do think Martin is better than Eddie overall but Tierney is not in the same class as the 04/05 Drury (based on his appearances for City, not whether he came from Colchester - Drury was from Peterborough and League one too remember)

It is only June with nearly 2 months to barter for the club, however we do need to strengthen at the back. Teams that concede too many do relegated - Blackpool are the latest in a long line of clubs that show scoring loads of goals is not enough if you cant defend properly.

However I also took TILs post in a michael winner condescending manner, whether intended or not. The point being discussed was not whether people thought PL would identify and address the issue in time (he will and does have plenty of dickering days left) but a concern that fellow posters on here seemed happy that the current defence was up to the task next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="SPANGLES"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Now correct me if i am wrong but today is June 18th with 55 days to go before the season kicks off and here we are worrying about the current defensive players on the books.Can i just remind people that back in 2004 Doomcaster and Worthington had yet to pick up the phone and make any calls to managers and agents as Doomcaster told us and i quote " It is no good making enquires with regard to players as they and their agents are laying on the beach at this time of year with their mobile phones switched off".

Do not panic everything will be fine come August 13th.

[/quote]

Somebody each year makes condescending BS remarks like this.  The point is, forget the shiite from ''04, it''s 2011.  And some fans aren''t too convinced with the central defence. I''m not too sure we''ll get another centre half as it goes so we can all wait another 50 odd days as much as we want.

Slate me as much as you want for being negative, but a defence that is lacking slightly will be very costly
[/quote]

The time to be negative is when the 55 days have passed.I believe there will be "help for the lads" as Lambert puts it with regard to the defence before the season kicks off.He said we want 7 players and we only know for certain about 4 of them to date plus rumours concerning a host of others and i am sure defenders will be amongst those still to sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn''t Bagheera the panther in Jungle Book?Shows how much you know about defending and football in general.Everything you say about the players currently at our club is wrong - from your rating of our centre halves to your rating of Martin as our best defender and most likely to step up to Prem level.As for Bougherra, he may have been the man to sign several years ago (when he was at Sheff Weds), but playing for Rangers in the noddy leage that is the Scots Prem for the last few years does absolutely nothing to inspire me with confidence that he is an improvement on anything that we have here already!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GJP"]

Jeez...not more of the "Elliott Ward won''t be good enough" rubbish.

 

It is baffling how anyone can say with any real conviction that he''ll be worse than Whitbread or Barnett.

 

Whitbread and Barnett have both made obvious and costly mistakes yet for some reason people seem to turn a blind eye to it but they''re more than happy to try to find some way to cast a shadow over Ward.

 

All three are very good players and all three have had brilliant seasons for us, there is no weak(er) link amongst them and any suggestion that any of those three are a weak link would have very little substance to it.

[/quote]Spot on GJP... [Y]What is really hilarious, is that the OP says that we need somebody who is going to organise the defence (which Wrad currently does), but from our current players he would leave Ward on the bench and partner Barnett with Whitbread.You really couldn''t make it up could you???I am sure the majority of fans are just utterly clueless or watch our games with their eyes closed.  Because without doubt, Ward has been the organiser and leader of our defence for the majority of the last season.  Without him our defence as a unit would be totally lost and all at sea.The majority view will be upheld though, just as it was from the majority with their Simeon Jackson will never make the grade and now apparently Chris Martin (who was much better than Jackson 6 months ago) is useless and we should sell him for £500k... dear oh dear! [:$]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

Jeez...not more of the "Elliott Ward won''t be good enough" rubbish.

 

It is baffling how anyone can say with any real conviction that he''ll be worse than Whitbread or Barnett.

 

Whitbread and Barnett have both made obvious and costly mistakes yet for some reason people seem to turn a blind eye to it but they''re more than happy to try to find some way to cast a shadow over Ward.

 

All three are very good players and all three have had brilliant seasons for us, there is no weak(er) link amongst them and any suggestion that any of those three are a weak link would have very little substance to it.

[/quote]

Spot on GJP... [Y]

What is really hilarious, is that the OP says that we need somebody who is going to organise the defence (which Wrad currently does), but from our current players he would leave Ward on the bench and partner Barnett with Whitbread.

You really couldn''t make it up could you???

I am sure the majority of fans are just utterly clueless or watch our games with their eyes closed.  Because without doubt, Ward has been the organiser and leader of our defence for the majority of the last season.  Without him our defence as a unit would be totally lost and all at sea.

The majority view will be upheld though, just as it was from the majority with their Simeon Jackson will never make the grade and now apparently Chris Martin (who was much better than Jackson 6 months ago) is useless and we should sell him for £500k... dear oh dear! [:$]
[/quote]

Ok read it again and tell me where i said we need an organizer?????????

 

People like you are the real idiots coming on here trying to look clever slagging other peoples posts off when you clearly cant read properly. I said a STRONG center back. Ward IMO is weak and easily knocked off the ball at times and this is why i think he will struggle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]I think we also lost to Blackburn as a prem team last season - 3 more goals there. When we got promoted last time the general view was our promoted defence was good enough; it was not, we strengthened it but relied for too many games on teh champs defence and ended up conceding 77 goals - simply too many, more than 2 per game. Malky Flem were superb in the champs, but neither were up to tackling the step up in pace, movement and power. And the Malky/Flem partnership both conceded fewer goals than the current squad and, imo, were far stronger than the centre backs we had in the champs last season. I do think Martin is better than Eddie overall but Tierney is not in the same class as the 04/05 Drury (based on his appearances for City, not whether he came from Colchester - Drury was from Peterborough and League one too remember) It is only June with nearly 2 months to barter for the club, however we do need to strengthen at the back. Teams that concede too many do relegated - Blackpool are the latest in a long line of clubs that show scoring loads of goals is not enough if you cant defend properly. However I also took TILs post in a michael winner condescending manner, whether intended or not. The point being discussed was not whether people thought PL would identify and address the issue in time (he will and does have plenty of dickering days left) but a concern that fellow posters on here seemed happy that the current defence was up to the task next season.[/quote]

 

Thank you that man/woman lol.

The only person who has actually got wot i was trying to say!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Wallerboi"]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]I think we also lost to Blackburn as a prem team last season - 3 more goals there. When we got promoted last time the general view was our promoted defence was good enough; it was not, we strengthened it but relied for too many games on teh champs defence and ended up conceding 77 goals - simply too many, more than 2 per game. Malky Flem were superb in the champs, but neither were up to tackling the step up in pace, movement and power. And the Malky/Flem partnership both conceded fewer goals than the current squad and, imo, were far stronger than the centre backs we had in the champs last season. I do think Martin is better than Eddie overall but Tierney is not in the same class as the 04/05 Drury (based on his appearances for City, not whether he came from Colchester - Drury was from Peterborough and League one too remember) It is only June with nearly 2 months to barter for the club, however we do need to strengthen at the back. Teams that concede too many do relegated - Blackpool are the latest in a long line of clubs that show scoring loads of goals is not enough if you cant defend properly. However I also took TILs post in a michael winner condescending manner, whether intended or not. The point being discussed was not whether people thought PL would identify and address the issue in time (he will and does have plenty of dickering days left) but a concern that fellow posters on here seemed happy that the current defence was up to the task next season.[/quote]

 

Thank you that man/woman lol.

The only person who has actually got wot i was trying to say!!!!!

[/quote]

Don''t worry, I know exactly what your saying too, you are not doubting that Lambert won''t bring in any more defensive cover but instead raising the issue that many people on here thinks our defence is fine as it is. Like you, I also have my concerns over Ward, I''m not saying he hasn''t had a good season, but he has a terrible habit of going in to a tackle very half heartedly and just sort of dangles a leg as opposed to commiting to the challenge and he always seems to duck out of aerial battles. He is calm and collected on the ball, which will work when we are on the front foot, but against the more physical teams I believe he will struggle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah exactly that. The problem is theres too many know it alls on this site, like "smudger" who just wanna try be clever before reading the post properly. Some peole think are team is far better than it is i swear, u wud of thought we had Stam and Desailly at the back lol. Excuse me if i have spelt that wrong, im sure smudger will correct me!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×