Cody v Morrison

[Legend Iwan 30]

[quote user="yellow blood"]I missed Cody''s International call-up...[/quote]

I must''ve missed Holt''s as well.

 

My thoughts on Cody are that we should sign him for one more year, loan him out this season to a Championship side and IF we go down hopefully have a striker ready for us. I understand Smudge, Wiz etc stick their colours to the mast, and admirably. However, Cody has improved dramtically after his year at Gillingham. That''s not to say he will definitely make it in the Prem, but to categorically say he will never make it in the top two divisions of this League system is ridiculous. You only have to look at our current team and the progress these players have made. It takes time, and unluckily for Cody we are progressing quicker then he is.

Whatever happens he has certainly given himself the chance to earn a lot more and do something he enjoys for a career, and good luck to the lad.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"]Some people are so quick to criticise Cody, yet so protective over Martin and believe he will make some impact on the PL. ==================== Chris Martin scored as many goals as Cody did, but the former did this at a higher level. Will cody actually score 20+ in league 1? Chris Martin contributed greatly to our eventual promotion from League 1 and therefore deserves to be ahead of Cody in the pecking order. Chris Martin has been with us longer than Cody. Not a spectacular reason but it is true. At the moment we can actually make a profit on Cody, which we probably won''t do with Martin. Let''s cash in while he has a year left on his contract as I doubt very much he''ll ever sign a new or extended one.[/quote]

Martin didn''t score 20 in League 1 .... he scored 17, and last year mustered 3 in 17 Championship appearances. Sadly, he''s not as good as some make out and thus they have appear to have to continually exaggerate his stats.  

[paul moy 235]

* thus they appear to have to ...... dunno where the ''edit'' button has gone !!

[Hunter106 0]

I think you have misunderstood where I am coming from.

I was simply saying would people view the situation differently if Cody had made the impact that Chris Martin did in league one. As Cody was not given a good chance in League One, we cannot know what impact he would have had during both that season, and the previous one. What is for sure, is when called upon, Cody always did the job asked of him.

It is also hard to simply write him off, because go back 6 months and how many on here would believe that Jackson would be going into the Premiership as one of our main strikers?

[yellow blood 0]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]

[quote user="yellow blood"]I missed Cody''s International call-up...[/quote]

I must''ve missed Holt''s as well.

 

[/quote]

What has that to do with Cody v Morison?

[chicken 0]

One thing that always bugs me is that people talk about Cody as if he was young - say 21/22.

He is 25. In footballing terms that is a year or so off being on the peak of his game. That means he will get better but most of his improving has been done.

Personally I am indifferent about seeing him stay or go. If Lambert wants him to stay he will need to give him a longer contract, but I am not sure that Cody will want to stay to warm the bench or for reserve team kick-a-bouts when he could be playing first team football in the championship.

As I have said elsewhere I can see us having 6 strikers on the books.

Morrison is an altogether different prospect. He will be 28 when the season gets under-way and he is at the peak of his game. He has proven himself in both League 1 and the Championship. If there is a time for him to take the step up and prove he is good enough it is now - much like Holt.

However, he is also a target man and that makes him different to Cody. There are quite a lot of pacey attacking players around, the target men are a little harder to come by, especially those that score buckets of goals.

[king canary 7,580]

Been reading these threads for a while now and just wanted to chuck in my two pence.1) I believe one of the main reasons so many are sick of hearing about Cody is the fact that certain people used him as a stick to beat other players with last season, particualrly Jackson and Martin. So even when we sat happilly in the top two people kept banging on about how if we could recall Cody we would be better.2) I personally think a large part of people loving Cody comes from his background- doing scaffolding a couple of years back now playing premier league football. Fair enough but I dont believe there would be the same clamour for him to get his chance if we had signed him off Yeovil or someone.3) Cody v Martin- Sort of links back in to point 1 but it always baffles me that people believe Cody Mac is such a great player based on one very good season in league two but Martin is bashed as he only scored prolifically in league one, a league higher! Add to the equation that Cody is 2 or 3 years older and all this talk of unfulfilled potential vs Martin not being good enough is even odder.4) How good actually is Cody Mac? I suppose we dont really know but for consideration here is a list of players that have been league two top scorer in recent years- Lee Hughes, Grant Holt, Jack Lester, Aaron McClean, Izale McLeod, Richard Barker, Kawl Hawley, Phil Jeavons. Only one of these now plys there trade in the Premier League- Holt. In fact I believe only McLean is even playing at Championship level although I may be wrong. Now I am not saying this means he cant make it in the Prem but I believe it shows that a hatful of goals at that level should be taken with a pinch of salt. Watching Cody I see a player with fantastic natural pace, big work ethic but not much else. Whoever it was that said he is better in the air than Morison is a bit mental. Having watched the video of his goals on youtube it is noticable that a lot of his headers are free headers- the kind of chances you just dont get at higher levels. Being good in the air means winning headers, flick ons, knock downs etc along with scoring headers.Sorry for the long post but wanted to get it all off my chest. In conclusion, I like Cody but would not see where we have room to take a gamble on him as a player in our squad.

[paul moy 235]

King Canary, I would argue that 17 goals in League 1 is not prolific for a striker, especially in a title-winning side, and 3 in the Championship in similar circumstances, even less so.

A top striker should be getting at least over 25 goals in a full season in League 1 and over 20 in the Championship to justify that label IMO.   Having said that, just because a player fails to score many at a lower level does not mean that they cannot score more at a higher level. For example,  DJ Campbell scored 4 in 32 appearances for Leicester the season they were relegated from the Championship, but scored 13 in the Prem last season.  

As I''ve said before, the big difference between Cody and Chris Martin is pace and attitude, and both are positives for Cody.  If Martin deserves a chance in the Prem then so does Cody.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]

King Canary, I would argue that 17 goals in League 1 is not prolific for a striker, especially in a title-winning side, and 3 in the Championship in similar circumstances, even less so.

A top striker should be getting at least over 25 goals in a full season in League 1 and over 20 in the Championship to justify that label IMO.   Having said that, just because a player fails to score many at a lower level does not mean that they cannot score more at a higher level. For example,  DJ Campbell scored 4 in 32 appearances for Leicester the season they were relegated from the Championship, but scored 13 in the Prem last season.  

As I''ve said before, the big difference between Cody and Chris Martin is pace and attitude, and both are positives for Cody.  If Martin deserves a chance in the Prem then so does Cody.

[/quote]Can you please explain what you mean by ''attitude''? You''ve mentioned it a few times and I need more detail.

[king canary 7,580]

[quote user="paul moy"]

King Canary, I would argue that 17 goals in League 1 is not prolific for a striker, especially in a title-winning side, and 3 in the Championship in similar circumstances, even less so.

A top striker should be getting at least over 25 goals in a full season in League 1 and over 20 in the Championship to justify that label IMO.   Having said that, just because a player fails to score many at a lower level does not mean that they cannot score more at a higher level. For example,  DJ Campbell scored 4 in 32 appearances for Leicester the season they were relegated from the Championship, but scored 13 in the Prem last season.  

As I''ve said before, the big difference between Cody and Chris Martin is pace and attitude, and both are positives for Cody.  If Martin deserves a chance in the Prem then so does Cody.

[/quote]17 goals IS prolific, whatever league you are playing in. Martin brought alot to the team in that season as well as goals- great link up play with Holt in particular. Obviously its all about opinions but the one opinion that matters is Lamberts and even at League 1 level Lambert picked Martin above Cody time after time.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Not sure if this will work as never posted a picture. But think this might explain the whole McDonald problem.[IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/20r5to0.png[/IMG]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Hunter106"]I think you have misunderstood where I am coming from.

I was simply saying would people view the situation differently if Cody had made the impact that Chris Martin did in league one. As Cody was not given a good chance in League One, we cannot know what impact he would have had during both that season, and the previous one. What is for sure, is when called upon, Cody always did the job asked of him.

It is also hard to simply write him off, because go back 6 months and how many on here would believe that Jackson would be going into the Premiership as one of our main strikers?[/quote]I always told you that Jackson was Premiership class, from before when he even signed for us.Cody isn''t half the player and never will be!Oh and to Paul Moy, Martin actually scored 23 in League One and 4 in the Championship last season, so let''s not start making things up.  Martin looked class in many games for us last season and was unlucky in my opinion.  He is a much better player than Craig Mackail-Smith and I am sure that he will not let us down if called upon this coming season.

[Ncfc26 0]

@Paul

Lambert has always said that Chris Martin is ''one of the best natural finishers'' he has ever seen this is from a man who has won the biggest competition and played with better players than this football club has ever seen and he wasn''t that bad either. So maybe this is why Martin will be given a chance in the premier league

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="king canary"]1) I believe one of the main reasons so many are sick of hearing about Cody is the fact that certain people used him as a stick to beat other players with last season, particualrly Jackson and Martin. So even when we sat happilly in the top two people kept banging on about how if we could recall Cody we would be better.

[/quote]

 

I think this is the thing that bugs me the most. I felt that all the talk of bringing Cody back last year was really disrespectful to our strikers who had contributed to us being near the top of the league. Jackson had a tough start to his City career but ended the season with thirteen goals which is a decent return considering he only started twenty league games. He looks for all the world like a confidence player who when he gets on a streak just won''t stop scoring and he will start next season full of that confidence. Yet some people will still have you believe that Cody is the better long term target.

 

Then there is Chris Martin. Now I am a big fan of his because he very good technically and some of his link up play with Wes and Holty the season before last was sublime. I think he may well end up playing as a attacking midfielder (or a wide attacker in one of those 4-2-3-1 formations that everybody loves these days) but our manager rates his finishing ability very highly. He struggled last year due to injury. There are plenty of rumours around about other reasons why he struggled but I''m not really interested in them. If he was a troublemaker then Lambert would have shown him the door by now but he''s still here. I wish people were not so obsessed with stats to try and back up their arguments and realised that you can;''t measure a players contribution by what numbers you can find on Soccerbase. To suggest that Martin wasn''t that great in our League One season because he only scored 17 (League) goals is ridiculous. His contribution to the team that season was immense. Grant Holt would have scored nowhere near as many goals as he did without the clever link up play from him and Wes.

 

I wish Cody all the best and wouldn''t object to him going out on loan to a League One/Championship team to half a season to see if he continues his improvement. But he is behind Martin and Jackson for a place in our team and rightly so.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Hunter106"]I think you have misunderstood where I am coming from. I was simply saying would people view the situation differently if Cody had made the impact that Chris Martin did in league one. As Cody was not given a good chance in League One, we cannot know what impact he would have had during both that season, and the previous one. What is for sure, is when called upon, Cody always did the job asked of him. It is also hard to simply write him off, because go back 6 months and how many on here would believe that Jackson would be going into the Premiership as one of our main strikers?[/quote]

I always told you that Jackson was Premiership class, from before when he even signed for us.

Cody isn''t half the player and never will be!

Oh and to Paul Moy, Martin actually scored 23 in League One and 4 in the Championship last season, so let''s not start making things up.  Martin looked class in many games for us last season and was unlucky in my opinion.  He is a much better player than Craig Mackail-Smith and I am sure that he will not let us down if called upon this coming season.
[/quote]

Nope Smudger.  Martin scored 17 in League 1. The other 6 were in cup competitions, and 4 were against non-league Paulton, so as far as I''m concerned don''t qualify as League 1 goals. George Best once scored 7 or 8 in cup game against a lower league team and I would not consider adding that figure to his First Division goals tally for that season as it totally distorts fair comparison with other players in the same league. If you add Martin''s cup goals for last season he scored 5 according to Wikipedia, so again you''re wrong on that stat. The 3 I quoted is for Championship goals, which again is correct as stated on Wiki.  

As to saying he is much better than CMS, the jury is out but I think you are wrong as CMS scored many more than Martin in his only season in the Championship from a midfield position in a relegated side.  Having said that, I don''t think either will light up the Prem.  

[Shack Attack 0]

FOR F*CKS SAKE CAN WE PLEASE STOP EVALUATING PLAYERS PURELY ON STATISTICS. THIS ISN''T FOOTBALL F*CKING MANAGER!!!!!

 

Sorry for shouting [:$]

[NCFC4LIFE 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

FOR F*CKS SAKE CAN WE PLEASE STOP EVALUATING PLAYERS PURELY ON STATISTICS. THIS ISN''T FOOTBALL F*CKING MANAGER!!!!!

 

Sorry for shouting [:$]

[/quote]twit too

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Hunter106"]I think you have misunderstood where I am coming from. I was simply saying would people view the situation differently if Cody had made the impact that Chris Martin did in league one. As Cody was not given a good chance in League One, we cannot know what impact he would have had during both that season, and the previous one. What is for sure, is when called upon, Cody always did the job asked of him. It is also hard to simply write him off, because go back 6 months and how many on here would believe that Jackson would be going into the Premiership as one of our main strikers?[/quote]I always told you that Jackson was Premiership class, from before when he even signed for us.Cody isn''t half the player and never will be!Oh and to Paul Moy, Martin actually scored 23 in League One and 4 in the Championship last season, so let''s not start making things up.  Martin looked class in many games for us last season and was unlucky in my opinion.  He is a much better player than Craig Mackail-Smith and I am sure that he will not let us down if called upon this coming season.[/quote]

Nope Smudger.  Martin scored 17 in League 1. The other 6 were in cup competitions, and 4 were against non-league Paulton, so as far as I''m concerned don''t qualify as League 1 goals. George Best once scored 7 or 8 in cup game against a lower league team and I would not consider adding that figure to his First Division goals tally for that season as it totally distorts fair comparison with other players in the same league. If you add Martin''s cup goals for last season he scored 5 according to Wikipedia, so again you''re wrong on that stat. The 3 I quoted is for Championship goals, which again is correct as stated on Wiki.  

As to saying he is much better than CMS, the jury is out but I think you are wrong as CMS scored many more than Martin in his only season in the Championship from a midfield position in a relegated side.  Having said that, I don''t think either will light up the Prem.  

[/quote]I know what you are saying Paul, but cup goals count in the majority of goal-scoring listings these days whether you like that or not.I am the same and tend to go by League games only, but nearly every goalscoring list you will find includes cup goals these days.Anyway I would take 17 league goals in League One plus a few cup goals over 25 goals in League 2 any day!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

FOR F*CKS SAKE CAN WE PLEASE STOP EVALUATING PLAYERS PURELY ON STATISTICS. THIS ISN''T FOOTBALL F*CKING MANAGER!!!!!

 

Sorry for shouting [:$]

[/quote]haha exactly... [Y]Anybody who thinks that Chris Martin can''t cut it at all at a higher level should take a look at some of the things he does on the highlights dvd from last season.  He has far more technique than CMS or Cody will ever have.  He is also the youngest of the 3 by a considerable distance and I have no doubts whatsoever that he will have a part to play for us at the highest level sometime.He a fantastic 5th choice striker for a newly promoted team to be going in to the season with and those City fans who said that they would sell him for £500k on here should be ashamed of themselves!